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BeezerCeltic1967
05-08-14, 06:07 PM
So tonight is the night :ok:

that fucking coward david cameron SHAT it.... so sends the trecherous alastair darling to debate live with alex salmond instead.

Salmond will destroy him, looking forward to this tory gobbleshite getting his face you would never tire of punching handed back to him :ok:

cowardly, cowardly stuff from dodgy dave... sending up his lacky.

Craig Forrest
05-08-14, 07:26 PM
So what are the polls saying up in the land of the Scots? last I heard, the "No" side was in the lead.... that still the case?

Redknapp69
05-08-14, 10:48 PM
Probably more 50/50 than ever after the Commonwealth Games.
Doesn't sounds like Salmond 'destroyed' him tonight
And STV couldn't even stream the debate successfully after not allowing it to be broadcast outside Scotland :pound:

slivie
05-08-14, 11:12 PM
Got quite heated at times but i don't think any side came out on top

slivie
05-08-14, 11:28 PM
Probably more 50/50 than ever after the Commonwealth Games.
Doesn't sounds like Salmond 'destroyed' him tonight
And STV couldn't even stream the debate successfully after not allowing it to be broadcast outside Scotland :pound:

Do you get stv down south with sky or virgin it's usually something like channel 995

Redknapp69
06-08-14, 07:44 AM
That's bbc Scot

But I think you can find the channel on sky and add it - not sure tho

BeezerCeltic1967
10-08-14, 12:15 PM
http://i62.tinypic.com/24vmlue.jpg

http://i58.tinypic.com/2u6k5xg.jpg


That lown Johnson is standing for Parliament again at the next election and will be Tory leader in no time. A NO vote [which it will be sadly] and this is what's coming to us.
A pound in Croydon and all that....

He's upfront about his disdain for Scotland. Make no mistake, we are second class citizens as part of this union.
Johnson and his cronies will make sure that is reinforced after a NO vote.

Saying we are gonna get more powers as well..... fucking lying bastards.

I only hope this stuff makes people see sense and vote YES, or else we will be stuck with idiots like this wether we vote for them or not sadly.

BeezerCeltic1967
10-08-14, 10:15 PM
SCOTLAND HAS A £17 BILLION CONSTRUCTION INDUSTRY
SCOTLAND HAS A £13 BILLION FOOD AND DRINK INDUSTRY
SCOTLAND HAS £10 BILLION BUSINESS SERVICES INDUSTRY
SCOTLAND HAS A £9.3 BILLION CHEMICAL SCIENCES INDUSTRY
SCOTLAND HAS A £9.3 BILLION TOURISM INDUSTRY
SCOTLAND HAS A £7 BILLION FINANCIAL SERVICES INDUSTRY
SCOTLAND HAS A £5 BILLION AEROSPACE INDUSTRY
SCOTLAND HAS A £4.5 BILLION WHISKY EXPORT INDUSTRY
SCOTLAND HAS A £3.1 BILLION LIFE SCIENCES INDUSTRY
SCOTLAND HAS £350 MILLION TEXTILE EXPORTS
***************BONUS*****************
SCOTLAND HAS A £1.5 TRILLION OF OIL AND GAS RESERVES.
*************************************
SCOTLAND WOULD BE THE 8th WEALTHIEST NATION IN THE WORLD IN GDP.(exclude oil we would be 14th the rUK would be 18th)
SCOTLAND HAS 25% OF THE EUROPE'S WAVE AND WIND ENERGY."
taxes we don't receive whilst being in the UK,
companies who operate within scotland and pay tax from their english headquarters that doesn't get fair representation of the country some of their the taxes were raised in.
asda
morrisons
tesco
B&Q
argos
primark
mcdonalds
kfc
halfords
just to name a few of the companies that pay english tax,on scottish earnings.
these companies would have to start paying tax in an independent state,so there is an argument to be had there.
also the a fore mentioned whisky - some of the tax revenue goes to england as it leaves dock in felixstowe so more revenue lost to Scotland.
Remember 90% of every court fine, from Scottish Courts also goes to Westminster....
NEXT YEAR WE WILL STILL BE PAYING ALL THE ABOVE IN, AND WESTMINSTER ARE GOING TO CUT THE BLOCK GRANT..... SO WE PAY EVEN MORE IN TO GET LESS BACK.....???????

Only one way to change this vote YES!!!

slivie
10-08-14, 11:21 PM
https://scontent-a-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/t1.0-9/p261x260/994457_10152321909058721_5166951066100422998_n.jpg

Bevchenko
10-08-14, 11:32 PM
***************BONUS*****************
SCOTLAND HAS A £1.5 TRILLION OF OIL AND GAS RESERVES.
*************************************


http://www.troll.me/images/obama-dat-ass/dat-oil-thumb.jpg

BeezerCeltic1967
17-08-14, 10:16 PM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BuhhplSCcAA5Clg.png:large


- - - Updated - - -


http://www.troll.me/images/obama-dat-ass/dat-oil-thumb.jpg

Aye,

Dat oil,

OUR oil, ken?

BeezerCeltic1967
25-08-14, 08:55 PM
Salmond deffo winning round 2 tonight :ok:

darling is a fool and has been shown to be a fool tonight :ok:

BeezerCeltic1967
25-08-14, 09:02 PM
Actually cringing for darling here but salmond runs the risk of looking like a smug bully if darling keeps rattling :lol:


darling is all over the place here tonight :lol: the tables have hugely turned on the currency tonight. Finish him aff Eck :ok:

slivie
25-08-14, 09:24 PM
Salmond tearing darling a new one :happy:

BeezerCeltic1967
25-08-14, 09:27 PM
he sure is mate :ok:

darling is looking like a little boy lost :ok:

BeezerCeltic1967
25-08-14, 09:29 PM
darling now talking ifs and buts. telling salmond that he cannot answer economic questions.

Oh dear :lol:


the difference in salmond's performance tonight compared to the first debate is monumental :ok:

eck is a fantastic debater :ok:

darling has no answers, just squirming around like a wee fanny :lol:

BeezerCeltic1967
25-08-14, 09:31 PM
would love eck just to deck the wee cunt :lol:

- - - Updated - - -

darling a stuttering fool :lol:

BeezerCeltic1967
25-08-14, 09:41 PM
if scotland does not vote yes now, i'll never have any faith in the scottish people again. the 'no' people can present nothing that says that scotland will not be plundered even more by 'austerity measures' if they refuse independence.

the choice is independent and maybe struggling/fucked, or union and definitely fucked by they westminster bastards. It is no choice.

slivie
25-08-14, 10:16 PM
women on bbc2 said it was a tie.

Nae fucking way was it a tie, she must have her no tinted specs on

BeezerCeltic1967
25-08-14, 10:30 PM
a tie :lol:

more no propaganda bullshit :lol:

a fucking tie :lol: :lol: :lol:

Redknapp69
25-08-14, 10:47 PM
didn't see it but would be interested to hear from an unbiased source who had the better of this one (as I believe it was 1-0 Darling last time around)

BeezerCeltic1967
26-08-14, 03:23 PM
didn't see it but would be interested to hear from an unbiased source who had the better of this one (as I believe it was 1-0 Darling last time around)




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33Z9l-rWgfA

there ya go pal,

fill yer boots,

a humping for darling :ok:

BeezerCeltic1967
26-08-14, 05:02 PM
Just had a horrendous thought,

The thought of boris johnson and nigel farage potentially in a coalition together is frightening :puke: and could be a reality within 10 years. Those voting no or who remain undecided should think about this before they vote on 18th Sept

Dermotron
26-08-14, 05:21 PM
After being born in America, technically Boris Johnson is eligible to be president of the U, S and A

slivie
26-08-14, 06:25 PM
I managed to convince 3 undecideds at work to vote yes today :high5:

slivie
26-08-14, 06:51 PM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-28936201

HAHAHAHA East Renfrewshire council tweeted this last night, cannot stop laughing at this, For all non scots, pus is gob/mouth

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bv6dsOlIUAACcmx.jpg

Redknapp69
26-08-14, 10:28 PM
I managed to convince 3 undecideds at work to vote yes today :high5:

Wow - they must be intellectual people to take other people's advice on such an important vote...........

slivie
26-08-14, 11:22 PM
Wow - they must be intellectual people to take other people's advice on such an important vote...........

They were swaying towards yes, i merely pushed them over the cliff. It wasn't my advice really, it was from business for scotland. My 2 points were

How do you feel about the people of Scotland having to stump up £4,771 million pounds for a transport project (HS2) that not only comes nowhere near Scotland, but offers absolutely no economic benefit to our economy at all? An even better question might be: if you had £4,771 million pounds to spend on Scotland what would you spend it on?

Do you really want to be the first nation in history to actively reject it's own independence?

Craig Forrest
27-08-14, 12:58 AM
See, being from Canada and living through the failed Quebec push for separation I'm all for keeping my country together...... but Quebec was never its own country (unless you count New France but that was before Confederation).... so I see it as different....

I'm all for the Scots becoming their own fully independent country once again but I do fear that both sides are overlooking things.... I sure hope that the Scots do have a plan for currency if the UK doesn't allow them to keep the Pound (Quebec wanted to fuck off from us but keep the Canadian dollar and Canadian passports..... they were told it would never happen).... having to start fresh with your own currency while defaulting on whatever they may owe to Engerland isn't going to inspire confidence.

I don't have enough knowledge on the subject to accurately judge what might or might not happen..... but people need to be aware that despite all the doom and gloom from the "No" side, and the "everything is awesome and we'll be rich" from the "yes" side, the reality will be somewhere in between..... it won't be a smooth and easy ride, regardless of what happens.....

slivie
27-08-14, 03:29 AM
See, being from Canada and living through the failed Quebec push for separation I'm all for keeping my country together...... but Quebec was never its own country (unless you count New France but that was before Confederation).... so I see it as different....

I'm all for the Scots becoming their own fully independent country once again but I do fear that both sides are overlooking things.... I sure hope that the Scots do have a plan for currency if the UK doesn't allow them to keep the Pound (Quebec wanted to fuck off from us but keep the Canadian dollar and Canadian passports..... they were told it would never happen).... having to start fresh with your own currency while defaulting on whatever they may owe to Engerland isn't going to inspire confidence.

I don't have enough knowledge on the subject to accurately judge what might or might not happen..... but people need to be aware that despite all the doom and gloom from the "No" side, and the "everything is awesome and we'll be rich" from the "yes" side, the reality will be somewhere in between..... it won't be a smooth and easy ride, regardless of what happens.....

The UK can't stop Scotland using the pound even if that means using it without their permission, however if the uk government deny scotland the assets of the bank of england (currency union, built up over time by each nation within the union) then we can also deny the liability of the bank of england (scotlands debt). In that event if we get no currency union and we refuse to take our share of the national debt it is not a default as the UK still exists as a sovereign state.

Craig Forrest
27-08-14, 03:40 AM
i suppose any country can use another country's money without permission...

and just because the UK tells Scotland that it no longer has access to the bank of England (since it would no longer be part of the UK), Scotland could still be liable for any debts incurred prior to independence.... breaking away from the union to be on your own doesn't magically remove various financial obligations

anyway like i said, it matters not to me whether the Scots vote to split or not.... they were their own country once and the could be again.... my only point was that it's not going to be some land of sunshine and prosperity from day one.... it's going to be a long road and a hard road if you guys vote yes and there will be a lot of work to get all your newly independent institutions up and running and working properly

BeezerCeltic1967
31-08-14, 12:41 PM
Who do archie mcpherson and gordon brown think they are???. Portraying themselves as labour stalwarts dont make me laugh. Mcpherson stating the nhs fully devolved to our parliament. A parliament that can be dissolved by the current regime at any time. Ruled overall by a goverment that scotland did not vote for. As for brown going on about the fat cats. Did he no line the fat cats pockets wi big bonuses from the taxpayers. Tories in disguise. Call yourselves scotsmen you should hang your head in shame. What has "new labour" done for scotland? - FUCK ALL. All it has ever done is appease the tories. Two old fuds with no courage, no ambition, no balls and more to the point no future. Move south ya couple o fannies :ok:

BeezerCeltic1967
02-09-14, 10:19 PM
YES coming out on top again in the latest debate on tv :ok:

and also,

You know a campaign is in trouble when they run out of grassroots campaigners and have to sneakily put their politicians in instead. Meet Billy Fitzpatrick (apparently a grassroots no voter) which would be true if he wasn't an ex labour councillor. ‪#‎Bettertogether‬ bringin in the ringers!

Don't believe me?

Billy Fitzpatrick, 58, is a father of two. He was born and educated in Edinburgh.

Billy works in Edinburgh for the Western General Hospital as a health worker, caring for the needs of the general public and patients.

He has held positions on various local council bodies and has in the past served on the District Council from 1984 to 1995, representing Granton; and then on Edinburgh City Council from 1995 to 2007, representing Pilton. He has also served as a Justice of the Peace.

Billy also serves as a Unison official for fairness in the working rights and conditions of members.

Fairness? So a politician taking away a seat from the member of the public in a debate is fair?

https://scontent-a-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xaf1/v/t1.0-9/1948185_522022551262145_2803871899186010352_n.jpg? oh=511e2ffe7d26bb0bcb34e377bd96d10f&oe=5462A625

http://www.edinburghlabour.com/2011/11/billy-fitzpatrick.html

‪#‎indyref‬ ‪#‎scotlanddecides‬

BeezerCeltic1967
02-09-14, 10:22 PM
momentum is deffo swinging to a YES vote right now :ok:


Patrick Harvie of the Green Party was the star of the YES show tonight :ok: well done that man,

Loser of the night was the brain dead ex paratrooper :lol: who got put right in his place by Harvie :lol:

still have my doubts it will happen but it would be amazing if it does :hail:

slivie
02-09-14, 10:40 PM
Patrick Harvie did well, I thought Elaine C Smith came across quite well too

Interesting article from last night about a bbc radio 5 live debate in my city of Dundee, which happened this morning

http://www.thecourier.co.uk/news/politics/bbc-5-live-struggled-to-find-enough-no-voters-for-dundee-independence-debate-1.553982

Craig Forrest
03-09-14, 01:17 AM
YES coming out on top again in the latest debate on tv :ok:

and also,

You know a campaign is in trouble when they run out of grassroots campaigners and have to sneakily put their politicians in instead. Meet Billy Fitzpatrick (apparently a grassroots no voter) which would be true if he wasn't an ex labour councillor. ‪#‎Bettertogether‬ bringin in the ringers!

Don't believe me?

Billy Fitzpatrick, 58, is a father of two. He was born and educated in Edinburgh.

Billy works in Edinburgh for the Western General Hospital as a health worker, caring for the needs of the general public and patients.

He has held positions on various local council bodies and has in the past served on the District Council from 1984 to 1995, representing Granton; and then on Edinburgh City Council from 1995 to 2007, representing Pilton. He has also served as a Justice of the Peace.

Billy also serves as a Unison official for fairness in the working rights and conditions of members.

Fairness? So a politician taking away a seat from the member of the public in a debate is fair?

https://scontent-a-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xaf1/v/t1.0-9/1948185_522022551262145_2803871899186010352_n.jpg? oh=511e2ffe7d26bb0bcb34e377bd96d10f&oe=5462A625

http://www.edinburghlabour.com/2011/11/billy-fitzpatrick.html

‪#‎indyref‬ ‪#‎scotlanddecides‬

Technically if he isn't an elected official then he has just as much right as any other member of the public to be there..... just sayin ;)

BeezerCeltic1967
03-09-14, 08:17 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=gApwpSWAhbQ



"Cap In Hand"

I could tell the meaning of a word like serene
I got some 'O' Grades when I was sixteen
I can tell the difference between magarine and butter
I can say "Saskatchewan" without starting to stutter

But I can't understand why we let someone else rule our land, cap in hand
I could get a broken jaw from being in a fight
I know its evening when day turns to night
I can understand why Stranraer lie so lowly
They could save a lot of points by signing Hibs Goalie

But I can't understand why we let someone else rule our land, cap in hand

We fight - when they ask us
We boast - then we cower
We beg
For a piece of
Whats already ours

Once I thought I could make God a bribe
So I said I was in his lost tribe
Getting handouts can be so frustrating
"Get in line son, there's five million waiting"

I can't understand why you let someone else rule your land, cap in hand
I can't understand why we let someone else rule our land, cap in hand
I can't understand why you let someone else rule your land, cap in hand

http://www.celticminded.com/images/smilies/Saltire.gif

BeezerCeltic1967
03-09-14, 08:18 PM
see if it's a YES vote,
can we sing - the union is over - why don't you go home :lol:

Labour didn't deliver devolution. The people of Scotland did.
The SNP won't deliver Independence. The people of Scotland will.

slivie
04-09-14, 09:19 PM
Johann Lamont Gettin Telt!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wiYEMM2ot3w

slivie
04-09-14, 09:24 PM
http://s2.postimg.org/or9io78fd/Untitled.png

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4LhfZinVwQ

BeezerCeltic1967
06-09-14, 10:08 PM
http://i.imgur.com/AbBcGEI.jpg

aye ok ed..... :lol:

see you milliband, yer a slavering stuttering fucking idiot.
away and get to fuck ya fucking CLOWN.
your party has done nothing for Scotland, yer a little meek cunt with no fight in ye, too posh to fight the tories... who i actually thing you have a hard on for.

your lot can fuck off out of scotland as well ya dick.

:wave:


The desperation is ripping out them now :ok: :ok:

BeezerCeltic1967
06-09-14, 10:17 PM
vote has closed right down,
polls tomorrow :ok:

fuck labour and fuck the tories.

Redknapp69
06-09-14, 10:38 PM
Beez - if Labour has done nothing for Scotland why do the majority of your country vote for them?

BeezerCeltic1967
06-09-14, 10:47 PM
use to be them or the tories, back when they had some backbone...... now they are cowards.

think you will find those days are long gone mate :ok:

they are as bad as the tories.

the only people that have done anything for scotland, are the people of scotland.

it wasnt "new tory" labour that delivered devolution to scotland, it was the people of scotland who delivered it :ok:

Redknapp69
06-09-14, 10:54 PM
42% voted for Labour in 2010 vs 20% for SNP - and Labour had a bigger % change than SNP - why did people not vote for SNP if they wanted best for Scotland?!

BeezerCeltic1967
06-09-14, 10:55 PM
2010 and 2014 are very different times mate,
maybe people are finally sick and tired by broken promises?

BeezerCeltic1967
06-09-14, 10:58 PM
how may voted tories that year???

the main point here is, we have NEVER voted for tories..
but always end up with them...

that's just not on anymore, and that's why im voting fuck the tories forever :ok:

Redknapp69
06-09-14, 11:04 PM
I wonder why they let 16 year olds vote as well in this referendum..........

BeezerCeltic1967
06-09-14, 11:16 PM
why not? this vote is prb gonna affect them more than anybody, why should they not have a say? after all it is their future that is being determined here.

they will probably still be in this country and have to deal with living with a yes or no vote,

however old age pensioners who are mostly [like my gran who is 84] stuck in their way and will mostly vote no but will not have to live with the consequence of their actions....

http://www.celticminded.com/images/smilies/Saltire.gif

Redknapp69
06-09-14, 11:18 PM
yeah - ok - they are banking on a load of kids that know fuck all and will be watching Braveheart repeats days before the vote just to get the "yes" vote in

Gonna be a close call though - hope there is a massive turnout as it really is the time for people to have their say

BeezerCeltic1967
06-09-14, 11:20 PM
typical english arrogance from you there.....

and you wonder why we want our own country..

BeezerCeltic1967
06-09-14, 11:26 PM
How do you feel about the people of Scotland having to stump up £4,771 million pounds for a transport project that not only comes nowhere near Scotland, but offers absolutely no economic benefit to our economy at all? An even better question might be: if you had £4,771 million pounds to spend on Scotland what would you spend it on?


a fucking disgrace,

all for what??? to get people somewhere 30 mins quicker????

it's a fucking scandal.


i'd much rather spend that £4,771 million pounds in scotland tbh pal :ok:

slivie
06-09-14, 11:27 PM
New Yougov poll puts Yes at 51% and No at 49%

GAUN YERSEL TEAM YES

Redknapp69
06-09-14, 11:28 PM
I'm not English

Do the majority of 16 year olds really know the implications that this vote will bring?

An I could move to Scotland for 6 months and vote on it - comical!

- - - Updated - - -


How do you feel about the people of Scotland having to stump up £4,771 million pounds for a transport project that not only comes nowhere near Scotland, but offers absolutely no economic benefit to our economy at all? An even better question might be: if you had £4,771 million pounds to spend on Scotland what would you spend it on?


a fucking disgrace,

all for what??? to get people somewhere 30 mins quicker????

it's a fucking scandal.


i'd much rather spend that £4,771 million pounds in scotland tbh pal :ok:


If that's the HS2 thing then I agree on that

BeezerCeltic1967
06-09-14, 11:29 PM
you may not be english, but you are displaying the english arrogant traits,
jst coz you are not english does not excuse you from being arrogant...

BeezerCeltic1967
06-09-14, 11:31 PM
also redders,

you may want to make some time to read thru the NHS act 2012...

more reasons to vote YES.

BeezerCeltic1967
06-09-14, 11:32 PM
I'm not English


:yield::yield::yield::yield:

i wouldn't own up to that either.... :rofl:

Topofthekop
06-09-14, 11:36 PM
:yield::yield::yield::yield:

i wouldn't own up to that either.... :rofl:


Ya fanny.. I'd rather be Welsh than English, Same as I'd rather be Scottish than English... Anythings better than being English :P

BeezerCeltic1967
06-09-14, 11:40 PM
another reason is why the fuck should eng ur lands nuclear trident subs be parked up in scottish waters???

they can get them to fuck and park them in the thames :ok: :wave:

taken the piss for far, far too long with them.

BeezerCeltic1967
06-09-14, 11:51 PM
Breaking: YouGov IndyRef poll

Yes 47 +4
No 46 -3
Don't Know 7 -1

Excluding Don't knows:
Yes 51 +4
No 49 -4



:popcorn:

BeezerCeltic1967
06-09-14, 11:53 PM
oi redders,

not got anything to say on posts,

246, 249????

BeezerCeltic1967
06-09-14, 11:59 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=cEKhl1-G7Jo

Redknapp69
07-09-14, 12:04 AM
This ain't my vote and I don't know enough it about it all. I would prefer the vote went no and Scotland stayed part of UK but if its a yes then I hope it works out well for you but I think it could go tits up

246 - dunno what its all about but was with my mate's missus who's Scottish and works in NHS and although she is onna vote "no" she did mention something about "yes" vote would be better for NHS in Scotland

249 - yes I'm sure there is a lot of stuff in Scotland that should be somewhere else in UK and vice versa. That will be a minefield to sort out if the vote goes "yes"

BeezerCeltic1967
07-09-14, 12:08 AM
well you seemed to know enough about it with the "braveheart" nonsense....

stick to your 2 teams :ok:

xxx

BeezerCeltic1967
07-09-14, 12:09 AM
sooooooooooooooooooo

the YES are in front in the polls now, the tories/labour poodles will be fucking shitting it... if it's yes then they are finished forever in scotland :ok:

fuck your bedroom tax you tory wankers :ok:

BeezerCeltic1967
07-09-14, 12:18 AM
http://i60.tinypic.com/2ikxyc3.jpg

Going by the other stories' headlines the Times is really putting the boot in.

Get them to fuck for good :ok:

Redknapp69
07-09-14, 12:22 AM
I hope that is the Scottish Edition you are reading Beez an not an "English" newspaper............

faz44
07-09-14, 12:27 AM
Scots can't even punish Rangers for their obvious misdeeds and now they'll govern themselves? It's the land of make believe.

Ste117
07-09-14, 12:34 AM
I am for the break up of the UK anyway, we live in a world were everyone wants independence, countries want to govern themselves. Times have changed and unions are a thing of the past. I also think we should give Northern Ireland up too, they will feel they can get out too if Scotland can.

Good luck to Scotland, I'm going to be typically English and say I couldn't give a fuck if Scotland vote yes or no, I'm sure England will survive.

Well if Tories get in government again, maybe now :)

BeezerCeltic1967
07-09-14, 12:53 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=dbW_AT64m8E

slivie
07-09-14, 12:57 AM
http://i.imgur.com/AbBcGEI.jpg

aye ok ed..... :lol:

see you milliband, yer a slavering stuttering fucking idiot.
away and get to fuck ya fucking CLOWN.
your party has done nothing for Scotland, yer a little meek cunt with no fight in ye, too posh to fight the tories... who i actually thing you have a hard on for.

your lot can fuck off out of scotland as well ya dick.

:wave:


The desperation is ripping out them now :ok: :ok:

Better Together were 22 points ahead at one stage and since project fear has gone into overdrive their support has been so fed up with the scare stories that they are moving to yes in droves. Most politicians would look at this and say this fear campaign is backfiring, why don't we ease off and try to be more positive and so Ed Miliband comes out with this!!!

It's shit like this makes me wonder what happened to the Labour party, Keir Hardie must be turning over in his grave. Now they're saying they will bribe Scotland with even more tax raising powers to prevent a yes vote. reeks of desperation to me

slivie
07-09-14, 01:01 AM
Was in buchanan street today and saw this (didn't have my phone with me, this is someone elses video). There must have been about a 600 people watching and singing along. But is this on the news, is it fuck


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbRbnS-Q7YM

slivie
07-09-14, 01:14 AM
This is hilarious, when you can't find a unionist in Govan, you're royally fucked!

http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/scottish-independence-govan-closes-doors-to-lamont-1-3532890

slivie
07-09-14, 01:33 AM
Beez - if Labour has done nothing for Scotland why do the majority of your country vote for them?


42% voted for Labour in 2010 vs 20% for SNP - and Labour had a bigger % change than SNP - why did people not vote for SNP if they wanted best for Scotland?!

The reason people vote SNP in a Scottish election and Labour in a general election is down to seats and tories

Say we vote for all 59 Scottish MPS to be SNP theoretically at a general election, what realistically could they do with 59 mps in a 650 seat house of commons, you can't have snp candidates in wales, england or n ireland constituencies unlike labour, tories and lib dems. So what does that leave you with excluding the lib dems. The tories and labour, every election labour would take a battering and the tories would storm every election and destroy scotland bit by bit, however if you vote 59 labour scottish mps (and a few snps of course) what happens, a balanced parliament between the tories and labour and each election isn't as predicatable, granted this is a cynical way to vote but that is the realistic situation of scottish politics at westminster

AKA better the devil you know

Craig Forrest
07-09-14, 06:23 AM
We've got guards on our border with the Yanks.... mostly they enforce Customs and do border security..... I assume the same thing would happen if Scotland became its own country.... you'd need border guards on both sides for a variety of reasons..... but there's no need to try and scare people with that fact... I'm sure you've got customs & immigration officers at your major points of entry both air and sea....

faz44
07-09-14, 02:54 PM
I do wonder what happens for HM Government in the case of a yes vote. Constitutional crisis? With 59 MPs gone, there's now no need for a coalition as the Conservatives would have a 7 seat majority. Surely that's the end of the coalition agreement and laters Cleggy, off to the opposition benches for you. I assume that Cameron still sticks to the fixed length of this parliament and immediately goes into election mode. Interesting times I suppose.

BeezerCeltic1967
07-09-14, 08:35 PM
Was in buchanan street today and saw this (didn't have my phone with me, this is someone elses video). There must have been about a 600 people watching and singing along. But is this on the news, is it fuck


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbRbnS-Q7YM


the BBC and SKY are a fucking disgrace mate, fuck the both of them with their NO agends.

we can do it :ok:

YES YES YES

gonna be some day on the 19th if this happens,

im getting out my fucking nut :lol:

BeezerCeltic1967
08-09-14, 12:33 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=5YK-kb2LsYEhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=5YK-kb2LsYE
:lol:

get in there brandy :ok:

rips the cunt out fox :lol:

didnt like the wee fucker before, but warming to him i must admit :ok:

BeezerCeltic1967
08-09-14, 12:37 AM
Oh silvie i will burst if its a yes vote mate, :ok:

there is a clown round the road from me mate, sometimes bump into him when im out with the dog. ffs his main reason for voting no is that "we" will lose the butchers apron :lol: fucking unreal!!!

im doing it to get rid of the tories once and for all, and i know my old papa would have done the same - so papa this one is for you :ok: [papa is grandad for english folk] seriously if we rid ourself of those bastards i will go missing for about 3 weeks on the fucking lash :ok:

BeezerCeltic1967
08-09-14, 12:58 AM
Hmm,


new powers you say???


https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xap1/v/t1.0-9/10645231_10152238913346577_2652942791158074912_n.j pg?oh=3a167bfbe8da42544c6fa0cfc95dcce7&oe=54A47833&__gda__=1419582822_3b62decdde4fa6045ecba4a3ccf7dd8 8

slivie
08-09-14, 01:21 AM
Oh silvie i will burst if its a yes vote mate, :ok:

there is a clown round the road from me mate, sometimes bump into him when im out with the dog. ffs his main reason for voting no is that "we" will lose the butchers apron :lol: fucking unreal!!!

im doing it to get rid of the tories once and for all, and i know my old papa would have done the same - so papa this one is for you :ok: [papa is grandad for english folk] seriously if we rid ourself of those bastards i will go missing for about 3 weeks on the fucking lash :ok:

Best scare story i heard that made me laugh was Jim McGovern, Labour MP for Dundee saying if we vote yes we'll have to get rid of British Summertime, like time won't exist post independence, fucking numpty

gutted would not describe how depressed i would feel if a no vote succeeds don't even want to think about it. every single person i know that is voting no (and thankfully there are only a few of them), everyone is voting out of fear, not one of them has said "I'm voting no because i'm proud to be british" not one. Thankfully Dundee is expected to gain the most yes votes out of any town or city in Scotland.

Sorry to go all Kevin Keegan here but I would love it, LOVE IT if we won by a landslide say 60% +

slivie
08-09-14, 01:29 AM
Frankie Boyle the other night on bbc1 on Scottish Independence, Rangers joke was funny as fuck


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TV9rZAchZg4

Redknapp69
08-09-14, 07:41 AM
This is really hotting up now gents - less than 2 weeks to go!

slivie
08-09-14, 02:57 PM
Scotland 2050

https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/10645242_10203890718379924_8786221371954815565_n.j pg?oh=87eb16ee4c28776212bcd657bb7b5c3f&oe=5494B131&__gda__=1418337575_63feaf730b7ced9a7352c0e6170c546 2

Craig Forrest
08-09-14, 04:13 PM
and by 2050 it may look like that if all goes well.... just don't expect a smooth ride..... it will be difficult at the start but if you guys do vote yes and your people are smart then there is no reason to think that you can't get there sooner rather than later :ok:

Redknapp69
08-09-14, 04:49 PM
Scottish based companies took a battering today on the stock market!

faz44
08-09-14, 05:33 PM
Scotland aren't ruled by another country. It was their king that decided to take over the throne of England.

BeezerCeltic1967
08-09-14, 05:36 PM
New TNS poll out at midnight tonight 'A Sensation :ok: :ok: :ok:

BeezerCeltic1967
09-09-14, 08:56 PM
http://i60.tinypic.com/2hq3x3r.jpg

faz44
09-09-14, 11:42 PM
Ignorant. I'm about as English as they come and I know what a bawbag is. Just say it outloud in a Scottish accent.

slivie
10-09-14, 01:42 AM
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/why-an-independent-scotland-could-become-the-richest-country-on-earth-9096120.html

Craig Forrest
10-09-14, 01:59 PM
Slivie.... that article would be awesome if guaranteed..... however that is the best case scenario..... it could just as easily go this way:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/davidnicholson/2014/03/05/5-reasons-why-scottish-independence-would-be-an-economic-disaster/

The problem is that both sides are painting unrealistic views and using propaganda to further their aims.... the NO side is basically using scare tactics and the "look at all the bad stuff that will happen", while the YES side is painting a glorious picture of fabulous wealth and gold paved streets and money in everyone's pocket


Unfortunately, no one will know where the truth lies until it is too late to do anything about it... hopefully whatever decision is reached on the 18th won't be one that makes people regret the choice they made :ok:

Redknapp69
11-09-14, 01:30 AM
New TNS poll out at midnight tonight 'A Sensation :ok: :ok: :ok:

No mention of the latest poll gents?

slivie
11-09-14, 01:46 AM
was that 39% no 38% yes 23% undecided?

slivie
11-09-14, 01:50 AM
i managed to get fridays better together scare story first, brace yourself Scotland!

https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfa1/v/t1.0-9/p526x296/398051_469527986441758_1902355473_n.png?oh=b96b58d b71a94d546d485c69193e75e7&oe=54975087&__gda__=1418853938_09d1d9f3d4d10274d6b3cb62c7344d7 6

slivie
11-09-14, 04:17 AM
Faisal Islam (Sky news political editor) on his source in better together

http://s23.postimg.org/jj5fjdsp7/image.png
http://s30.postimg.org/iyssm6d4h/fi2.png

slivie
11-09-14, 04:23 PM
Guy follows Labour MPs in Glasgow playing "The Empire Strikes Back" :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: Fucking Genius, Still Laughing


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DiMXuEmqAHA&feature=youtu.be

BeezerCeltic1967
11-09-14, 09:53 PM
it has to be said,
the media bias towards the NO campaign is actually very sickening, all the lies and bluster being fed as truth to scare old age pensioners etc is disgusting.

BBC and SKY are a disgrace.

BeezerCeltic1967
11-09-14, 09:55 PM
Guy follows Labour MPs in Glasgow playing "The Empire Strikes Back" :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: Fucking Genius, Still Laughing


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DiMXuEmqAHA&feature=youtu.be

that is funny as fuck :lol:

BeezerCeltic1967
11-09-14, 10:00 PM
Look at George Galloway nodding like a puppy dog when Ruth Davidson spouts her Tory rhetoric. You complete and utter sell out Galloway. And that hat is ridiculous.... fucking wanker that ye are.

BeezerCeltic1967
11-09-14, 10:03 PM
Outrage! My daughter is attending the Big Debate aired tonight on bbc1. 16-17 year olds all debating on the referendum. She has just texted me to say they were asked to say they were No or undecided because the Yes voters were outweighing the No's. Thankfully Niamh told them to Piss Off. Absolutely shocking corrupt media manipulation! Please share this, because no matter which way you are voting. Young people should not be manipulated in this manner!


thats from tonights debate....

fucking farce.

- - - Updated - - -

https://scontent-b-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/10435832_10203603951832622_3856312844404181029_n.j pg?oh=b128439471b5a5f40698225600448a9e&oe=548DC81F

Enough said.

djole2mcloud
11-09-14, 10:45 PM
so will Scotland become independent?

slivie
11-09-14, 10:46 PM
it has to be said,
the media bias towards the NO campaign is actually very sickening, all the lies and bluster being fed as truth to scare old age pensioners etc is disgusting.

BBC and SKY are a disgrace.

Could not agree more on bbc bias, I can't even watch the news anymore without feeling i want to put my foot threw the tv. At least Salmond own'd that patronising nick robinson

32,564 have signed this petition on bbc bias on referendum

https://you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/independent-enquiry-into-bbc-bias-regards-scottish-independence-referendum


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHmLb-RIbrM

slivie
11-09-14, 11:24 PM
Hopefully singing this on Friday 19th September


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6RoOwSKI7M

Erkifino
12-09-14, 02:27 PM
Outrage! My daughter is attending the Big Debate aired tonight on bbc1. 16-17 year olds all debating on the referendum. She has just texted me to say they were asked to say they were No or undecided because the Yes voters were outweighing the No's. Thankfully Niamh told them to Piss Off. Absolutely shocking corrupt media manipulation! Please share this, because no matter which way you are voting. Young people should not be manipulated in this manner!

Not that I disagree with your views on the the farcical journalism, and I wish ye the best of luck with the campaign, but it wouldn't be much of a debate if everybody was on the Yes side...

slivie
12-09-14, 02:47 PM
Could not agree more on bbc bias, I can't even watch the news anymore without feeling i want to put my foot threw the tv. At least Salmond own'd that patronising nick robinson

32,564 have signed this petition on bbc bias on referendum

https://you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/independent-enquiry-into-bbc-bias-regards-scottish-independence-referendum




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHmLb-RIbrM


The petition was 32,564 16 hours ago, and now it's 52,815! Says it all

JLa
12-09-14, 03:17 PM
So, I get that a lot of Scots want a split. What's the general opinion among the English? Will you be sad to see Scotland continuing on their own? Glad to get rid of them? Don't care?

Just curious.

Patinoz
12-09-14, 03:30 PM
I hope the NO-side wins; only because I want to see the absolute meltdown in here afterwards :lol:

Craig Forrest
12-09-14, 03:41 PM
I hope the NO-side wins; only because I want to see the absolute meltdown in here afterwards :lol:

Schadenfreude?

BeezerCeltic1967
12-09-14, 05:18 PM
I hope the NO-side wins; only because I want to see the absolute meltdown in here afterwards :lol:

there will be no meltdown...
we live in a democracy now :ok: thanks to the sacrifice's of our ancestors and their brave fights against countries who had other ideas for us. people have the right to vote yes or no, and whatever happens will happen :ok:

BeezerCeltic1967
12-09-14, 05:20 PM
Not that I disagree with your views on the the farcical journalism, and I wish ye the best of luck with the campaign, but it wouldn't be much of a debate if everybody was on the Yes side...


that's the whole point mate, the unfair bias towards no is staggering from the media. each time you see a "fair" piece on the news there is always more no than yes people involved, how is that fair?

slivie
12-09-14, 05:41 PM
Just went and closed my RBS account today and opened a Santander one and I wasn't the only one doing that in the branch I can tell you

BeezerCeltic1967
12-09-14, 05:50 PM
had a laugh to myself with these banks and their idle threats yesterday :lol:
just say it is a no vote, loads of customers will move their money elsewhere and hopefully their bully boy tactics backfire bigtime on them, the cheeky bastards.

not with them myself thankfully but if i was i would have done the same as you mate.

Patinoz
12-09-14, 05:53 PM
Santander is shit though..

Craig Forrest
12-09-14, 06:06 PM
Plus the banks were pretty clear that staff and operations would remain the same, they'd just move their corporate address to non-Scottish locations as a "just in case"

Patinoz
12-09-14, 06:17 PM
How is it bully boy tactics? They make the correct strategic decision for their business as there are big uncertainties over Scotland's financial sector in the case of a yes vote but stated, as Craig said, that their service will remain the same.

You are overanalyzing.

BeezerCeltic1967
12-09-14, 06:18 PM
yawn

Patinoz
12-09-14, 06:23 PM
yawn

Brilliant response. Very Salmond-like.

BeezerCeltic1967
12-09-14, 06:27 PM
yawn

BeezerCeltic1967
12-09-14, 06:32 PM
bully boy tactics, scare tactics :lol:

all orchestrated by the establishment/downing street.

and it's as see through as fuck :ok:

political engineering :puke:

Craig Forrest
12-09-14, 06:53 PM
So are you suggesting that a business should just say "Well the financial sector might get fucked up in the case of a Yes vote... but let's not prepare for it... let's just wait and see what happens and hopefully we won't lose a bunch of money"

That isn't a very sound strategy for any business..... you need to make contingency plans for the worst case scenario so you don't wind up in a bad situation

BeezerCeltic1967
12-09-14, 07:09 PM
nobody is going anywhere,
it's all downing street bollox mate.


why do they feel the need to make their negative voices heard in the last few days before it?
why not say it a year ago?

it's a lot of pish, and thankfully lots of people can see through it.

slivie
12-09-14, 08:41 PM
How is it bully boy tactics? They make the correct strategic decision for their business as there are big uncertainties over Scotland's financial sector in the case of a yes vote but stated, as Craig said, that their service will remain the same.

You are overanalyzing.

It's the timing more than anything else. If Scotland votes yes we won't have an independent country till 24th March 2016, if there was a question over currency it would be answered in the negotiations between 19th September & 24th March. However this 80% state owned bank decide a week till the vote to tell the treasury to release sensitive info before the market opens to the bbc in order to influence the vote, that is absolutely bully boy tactics

BeezerCeltic1967
12-09-14, 10:04 PM
"Chancellor Cancels Trip Due to Yes Vote 'Risks'

George Osborne and Bank of England Governor Mark Carney pull out of a G20 summit as polls show the Union hangs in the balance.


Chancellor George Osborne Visits Business Affected By The Budget
George Osborne has pulled out of a G20 meeting because of the Scots vote

The Chancellor has cancelled an official trip to Australia because of the potential economic risks of a Scottish Yes vote.

George Osborne and the Bank of England Governor Mark Carney are pulling out of a meeting of the G20 on September 20 and 21.

The decision comes as polls show the Yes and No camps neck and neck ahead of the crucial independence referendum on September 18.

Thee are also growing warnings from businesses over the impact of a Yes vote.


The Bank has confirmed that Mr Carney - who is due to chair a meeting of the financial stability board of bank regulators in Cairns on Wednesday - will now return early to be back in time for the result.

And the Treasury said that Mr Osborne will not now be going to the weekend summit so will be the UK for the outcome of the vote.

"I can confirm that he is not attending," a Treasury spokesman said.

The Bank said that Mr Carney will be represented at the G20 by the deputy governor for financial stability, Sir Jon Cunliffe.

The latest opinion poll on independence suggests the result is on a knife edge, with both side neck and neck.

With less than a week to go, a new survey for Guardian and ICM indicate support for the No campaign is on 51%, while those in favour of Yes is just 2% behind on 49%.

But 17% of those asked said they had still not made up their minds.

Another poll also suggests the Better Together campaign has narrowly edged back into the lead with a 4% gap.

A YouGov survey put No on 52% and Yes on 48%.

The results came as as several independent heavyweights expressed their concerns if Scotland was to vote to become a separate country.

Asda and John Lewis said the increased costs of operating in an independent Scotland would inevitably be passed on to the consumer, leading to higher prices.

But Tim Martin, chairman of JD Wetherspoon, has told Sky News that price rises are not inevitable if Scotland votes for independence.

RBS, which has been based in Scotland since 1727 and employs 11,500 people there, also confirmed it would be moving its headquarters to London if Scotland voted for independence.

The International Monetary Fund (IMF), meanwhile, said a vote for independence could have a negative effect on the markets in the short-term because of "uncertainty".











The 3 Stoogies know what the real results are,they are behind,mark my words :ok:

He is staying home to phone all his old school pals , like the asda parasite to get them to join in the bullying.

Its what they do. They all learned it at Eton....

ZanSnake
13-09-14, 02:21 AM
The power of one never over power those of others.

I thought it would be cool to post that here ;)

BeezerCeltic1967
13-09-14, 10:08 AM
I wonder how much coverage the orange walk in support of a no vote [god fucking help us] :lol: will get today in edinburgh when they scum start their usual antics?? there will be fighting amongst each other [there always is at these when billy and senga have to much drink] pissing in the streets, sectarian chants and lots more fun in the streets of scotland captial today.. already heard reports of celtic fans leaving for todays game from edinburgh having bottles flung at them... im sure you will hear all about it in the news today tho as the reporting will be fair for both campaigns....
hopefully if all the yes voters just stay away from these knuckle draggers they will do all the damage themselves :ok:

BeezerCeltic1967
13-09-14, 10:33 AM
The Loch Ness monster has announced it is moving south to lake windermere in the event of a no vote :rofl:

faz44
13-09-14, 10:54 AM
Of course RBS have to move south. They're 84% owned by the British government. Like Bank of Scotland, since the credit crunch, the only thing Scottish about these banks is the name.

However, the one real concern for me as an English taxpayer (until recently) is will the Scottish government take its share of the Scottish banks we all bailed out because of the toxic debts stemming from North of the Border cronyism?

Patinoz
13-09-14, 11:04 AM
It's the timing more than anything else. If Scotland votes yes we won't have an independent country till 24th March 2016, if there was a question over currency it would be answered in the negotiations between 19th September & 24th March. However this 80% state owned bank decide a week till the vote to tell the treasury to release sensitive info before the market opens to the bbc in order to influence the vote, that is absolutely bully boy tactics

Thank you for your response.

I can't quite believe though that you are suggesting to hold back information from the public about potential consequences concerning a particular outcome. This is one of the biggest, if not the biggest, decision Scotland has had to make in their history. It will severely affect all kinds of people for the foreseeable future.

It is absolutely paramount to supply as much information about definite, potential etc. consequences as possible so the people can make an informed decision for themselves and future generations. This isn't something that can be easily reversed so there can't be any voter's regret afterwards along the lines of "if I had known that beforehand, I'd have voted the other way."

So far the people in favour of a yes-vote strike me as patriotic individuals who love their country very much; something I admire and wish my countrymen would display more often. However, they also strike me as borderline paranoid seeing a conspiracy around every corner.

BeezerCeltic1967
13-09-14, 12:11 PM
I dont know how much of the bbc or sky reporting you have seen pat? There is no paranoia in here m8. The reporting is terrible.
Oops have to go there is a man and a dog with a no poster..

faz44
13-09-14, 12:55 PM
One thing I find very curious about the Yes campaign is their seeming certainty that they'll get rid of the "Torie (sic) scum" for good and become some Scandinavian liberal paradise. I would warn them that over the longer term, this will not be the case. Cronyism and nepotism are rife but it either goes completely unreported or is vastly misrepresented.

There are rich and influential people in Scotland who have disengaged from the Scottish political process because they can fund the Conservatives in Westminster to take care of thing. In case of independence, they're not going away, they're going to focus on rebuilding the institutions that will serve their agenda, just as they have in England. Either expect a second coming of the Scottish Conservatives or the corruption of another party.

BeezerCeltic1967
13-09-14, 01:10 PM
oh it will be the case,
there will be no tories ruling scotland ever again if it is a yes vote.

the thing is tho, it is the people of scotland who will decide who rules us, not people in another country with a higher population. who could deny people that right to determine their own future and not have it determined by people from another country??

BeezerCeltic1967
13-09-14, 01:13 PM
we also wouldn't have other countries nuclear submarines in our country..

BeezerCeltic1967
13-09-14, 02:28 PM
Scottish Independence: England's Shameful Secret
Comment Now
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Back in the 1970s, when the people of Scotland last had a vote on independence, Scottish campaigners accused the English of were stealing their country’s North Sea oil revenues. “England Needs… Scotland’s Oil,” read the campaign billboards. An independent Scotland, they argued, would be far better off and far richer than it would as a small part of a United Kingdom.

The English establishment in Westminster scoffed. The Scottish nationalists were being paranoid, they said. They were being ridiculous. Their estimates of the oil reserves were pure fantasy. Their claims that Scotland was getting short-changed were nonsense.

But guess what? It turns out that the Scottish Nationalists at the time were right. Even more remarkably, it turns out that the English governments at the time knew full well that the Scottish Nationalists were right. They had in their hands a secret report which said so, and backed up the Nationalists’ charges. So they did what any self-respecting government would do. They lied.

In 1974 the English government had received a secret study conducted by economics professor Gavin McCrone. Nearly all that North Sea oil is Scottish, Professor McCrone wrote. The oil reserves were far bigger than most people realized, he said. An independent Scotland would become one of the most prosperous countries in the world, comparable to Switzerland or Norway, he wrote. Its coffers would overflow. The biggest problem the country might face would be dealing with its massive balance of payments surplus.

Meanwhile, of course, the big loser from independence would be England.

The English government suppressed the report. The McCrone Report was hushed up, and didn’t see the light of day until about ten years ago. We only know about it because the Scottish Nationalist Party, using freedom of information laws, forced the English government to reveal it.

Today it’s available online.

And as the Scots gear up for another referendum on independence, it makes devastating reading. All that talk about England and Scotland being “Better Together”? All that talk about the British “family” and the historic union? All that pompous finger-wagging from Englishmen who think of Scotland as a place to shoot grouse? All those pictures of the royal baby?

Take a gander at the secret report that the English establishment hid from the Scots for thirty years.

“The full significance of North Sea oil… remains in large measure disguised from the Scottish public,” Professor McCrone wrote (He cited ineptitude in Westminster rather than malice; as anyone who has ever lived in England knows, the charge is all too believable). Analysis by Parliament’s Public Accounts Committee, he added, gave “authoritative support” for the Scottish nationalists’ charge that the government had “giv[en] Scottish oil away to the international companies ridiculously cheap.”

It is worth remembering what was going on in the rest of England at the time. The country was plunged into economic and political crisis. These included a “three day week” and, in 1976, the humiliation of having to seek a bailout from the International Monetary Fund. Some English at the time genuinely feared a constitutional crisis.

In the circumstances the country needed every penny it could get to survive. North Sea oil was about the only bright spot in the economy. They were not going to give it up.

Realpolitik is nothing new. The English government was doing its job – protecting the interests of the English. And this is, of course, old history. Much of the oil has now been given away. An independent Scotland would not get the windfall it would have received decades ago. But the story nonetheless remains a shameful one – and one that the pro-union forces would rather not talk about as the Scots prepare, once again, to go to the polls to consider independence.


doom and gloom

BeezerCeltic1967
13-09-14, 02:29 PM
An independent Scotland could become the richest country on earth. I’m not joking. It has all the necessary ingredients. Let me explain.

Each year the World Bank, the IMF and the CIA each independently publish a list of the richest countries in the world - as measured by GDP per capita at purchasing power parity.

The UK sits at a rather disappointing 21st, but topping those rankings you have the likes of Qatar, Luxembourg, Singapore, Brunei, Norway and Switzerland.

Some of these nations have got there thanks to their oil. But oil isn’t everything – otherwise the likes of Saudi Arabia (28th), Russia (43rd) or Iran (78th) would feature.

Others have got there because they are financial or commercial centres. But the same regulatory options that have enabled them to be so are open to other countries - they have just not been adopted.

There is, however, one characteristic common to all the top ten ranking nations, bar one. It is that they are small. In the top five, Singapore and Norway both have around 5 million; Qatar 3 million; Luxembourg and Brunei around half a million.

The one exception is the US. It ranks 6th (IMF), 7th (World Bank) and 14th (CIA). In 1950, and indeed in 1970, it was top. Back then though, its states were semi-autonomous and, on a gold standard, its money was independent. As its state has grown and power become more centralized, its ranking has slid.

This is because there is a direct correlation between the size of the state and the wealth of the people - the bigger the former, the smaller the latter. The more power is concentrated, the less wealth is spread.

But in a small nation, forced to live from a smaller tax base, there is more of a limit to how big state institutions can grow. Monitoring becomes more efficient, it is harder to obfuscate, so there is more transparency and accountability, and less waste. Change is easier to implement, making a nation flexible, dynamic and competitive. With fewer people, there is less of a wealth gap between those at the top and the bottom.

The evidence of history is that the free-est countries with the widest dispersal of power have always been the most prosperous and innovative.

The city-states of pre- and early-Renaissance Italy are a good example. There was no single ruling body except for the Roman Catholic Church. If people, ideas or innovation were suppressed in one state, they could quickly move to another, so there was competition. Venice, in particular, showed great innovation in turning apparently useless marsh into a unique, thriving city. Renaissance Italy became breathtakingly prosperous and produced some of the greatest individuals that ever lived.

But it would be overtaken by Protestant northern Europe. The bible was translated into local vernacular, and Gutenberg’s printing press furthered the spread of knowledge – and thus the decentralization of power. The pace was set by Holland, also made up of many small states, then Britain led the pack. In spite of its union with Scotland and its later empire building, England would disperse centralized power by reducing the authorities of the monarch after the Civil War of 1642–51, and later by linking its currency to gold.

Since its unification in the late 19th century, Italy has been nothing like the force it once was, blighted by infighting, bureaucracy, organized crime, corruption, rent- seeking, inflation and division. Its state is bloated, its political system dysfunctional.

So back to Scotland.

It now has the opportunity to enact the same legislation, taxation and regulation that other top ten countries on that list employ, following, say, the blueprint of Singapore. It already has a rich tradition in trade, finance and banking.

It has the oil.

And, with just five million people, it is small.



http://www.independent.co.uk/incoming/article8965430.ece/alternates/w460/pg-8-salmond-getty.jpg

BeezerCeltic1967
13-09-14, 03:00 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=rHmLb-RIbrM

don't let the facts get in the way of a good story nick robinson ya wee tory wankbag ye.

BeezerCeltic1967
13-09-14, 03:05 PM
the RBS :lol:

fuck them, they should be ashamed of themselves along with other banks for their actions over the last 10 years or so.... who the fuck in their right mind would listen to anything they have go to say??

fuck off to england and don't let the door hit ye on yer way :wave:

faz44
13-09-14, 03:35 PM
oh it will be the case,
there will be no tories ruling scotland ever again if it is a yes vote.

the thing is tho, it is the people of scotland who will decide who rules us, not people in another country with a higher population. who could deny people that right to determine their own future and not have it determined by people from another country??

Typical myopia. It's your country too and has been since the 1700s based on a union of crowns behind a Scottish king. The rich and influential of Scotland will corrupt the system and already have. If they lose on the 18th, they simply move the point of attack.

faz44
13-09-14, 03:44 PM
Beezer - you need to read "the paradox of plenty". The poor of Scotland will have no more money than they do now, no matter who holds drilling rights.

slivie
13-09-14, 03:48 PM
Former BBC journalist Stuart Cosgrove



Channel 4’s director of creative diversity, Stuart Cosgrove, has slammed the lack of journalistic scrutiny of Scottish independence referendum ‘scare headlines’ and called for a re-think at the BBC on the nature of balance and due impartiality.

Speaking on BBC Radio Scotland, Cosgrove said misreporting over claims the Royal Bank of Scotland would move jobs to England in the event of a Yes vote had been shown to be lacking substance and scrutiny after RBS issued a clarification to the media confirming any move would be relevant to “operations, not people”.

He told BBC presenter John Beattie: “I think elsewhere in the media and elsewhere within this organisation, the last 24 hours have allowed people to assume that this is about job losses in Scotland and the loss of great, significant investment.

“It’s clearly now is not, and yet another story when investigated the day after is proved to not have anything like the substance [it seemed].”

“The lack of scrutiny of this and the idea that people just wanted scare headlines I think is an outrage, particularly at this stage in the referendum when there’s so much to talk about and where journalism should be coming alive.

“Let’s just take the BP example; we are being told that BP are moving to London. Really? What exactly are they going to do given the £200m they’ve recently invested in offshore drilling technology – where are they going to be drilling? Hemel Hempstead? Of course they’re not.”

The comments came amid a media storm when Scotland’s First Minister Alex Salmond challenged the BBC’s Nick Robinson in a heated press conference exchange, and accused the Treasury of leaking sensitive financial information regarding RBS to the BBC.

Cosgrove added that following the referendum there should be an examination of how the BBC measured balance and impartiality in its coverage, saying that applying election coverage models to the referendum when the main parties are unionist could limit time given to voices from the Yes side.

“One of the things I’d like to challenge, and I think it’s something we’ll need to talk about once the referendum’s over – and I think it has a significant impact on this institution, the BBC – is the nature of balance and due impartiality,” he said.

“Yesterday, I was watching the rolling BBC News very closely and it was clear that notions of balance were being predicated on a party political basis. It would go from Cameron to Miliband to Clegg and back.

“If you look at it as a different premise – it’s a yes/no question – then Patrick Harvie of the Greens, who is not the leader but is a significant political person within the Yes campaign, should have had exactly the same coverage as Ed Miliband.

“Do you think for a second he got that? Of course he didn’t. I think there’s been a failure of the understanding of the nature of balance and due impartiality. It’s simply wrong and not acceptable.”

A spokesman for the BBC told The Drum: "Our coverage of the referendum story is fair, accurate and impartial, in line with our editorial guidelines."

slivie
13-09-14, 03:55 PM
Former Newsnight correspondent Paul Mason

Former Newsnight correspondent Paul Mason seems rather happy to be free of Auntie, especially since the Scottish independence referendum campaign sent the establishment to panic stations: ‘Not since Iraq have I seen BBC News working at propaganda strength like this. So glad I’m out of there,’ he writes on his Facebook page, to the consternation of former colleagues. ‘It’s on my friends-only Facebook page so not meant as any great statement other than weariness,’ Mason tells Mr S, ‘it says what it says.’ Lucky, then that he is now at Channel Four News

2 Former BBC journalists and 66,606 who have signed a petition on bbc bias. This isn't about conspiracy theories, it's a company who have a vested interest in the referendum and are twisting the story so it's about job losses and not self-determination

slivie
13-09-14, 03:56 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6vDzf-wSbk

Craig Forrest
13-09-14, 04:18 PM
Jonas Gahr Store, the Norwegian foreign minister, said it took three decades for the country's investment in its oil and gas sector to reap dividends and hardly any of the proceeds are used to prop up the economy, as they would in a separate Scotland.

He rejected Mr Salmond's claim that Norway had bailed out its banking sector, an argument the First Minister has used to counter claims that an independent Scotland could have rescued Royal Bank of Scotland and Halifax Bank of Scotland.

***************************


The SNP’s main economic platform is that Scotland should own the revenue from North Sea oil and gas, making it a petro-dollar paradise equivalent to Norway. Although they have similar populations (5.05 million for Norway, 5.3 million for Scotland), the hydrocarbon revenues are massively different. Norway’s government gathered $40 billion in 2013 while the UK made $10.8 billion, a fall of 40 per cent from 2012. Current predictions? Further falls, to £3.3 billion ($5.5 billion) in 2016/17, according to the Institute for Fiscal Studies.

There’s no amount of careful stewardship that is going to magic $5.5 billion into $40 billion, when many of the North Sea rigs are at the end of their life and production levels are falling.

****************************

There are still serious issues that need to be addressed...... oil revenue alone (or in combination with whiskey exports and tourism) is not going to make Scotland into a land of milk and honey

Will you be better off on your own? No one can really say until enough time has passed..... but there need to be serious factual discussions instead of the "You'll be doomed" or "We'll be the most successful country in the world" that we're hearing on both sides

BeezerCeltic1967
13-09-14, 07:50 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=wP8A9rtg0iI

BeezerCeltic1967
13-09-14, 07:51 PM
Typical myopia. It's your country too and has been since the 1700s based on a union of crowns behind a Scottish king. The rich and influential of Scotland will corrupt the system and already have. If they lose on the 18th, they simply move the point of attack.

if they do....

WE can get rid of them,

impossible as it stands just now.

BeezerCeltic1967
13-09-14, 07:54 PM
Jonas Gahr Store, the Norwegian foreign minister, said it took three decades for the country's investment in its oil and gas sector to reap dividends and hardly any of the proceeds are used to prop up the economy, as they would in a separate Scotland.

He rejected Mr Salmond's claim that Norway had bailed out its banking sector, an argument the First Minister has used to counter claims that an independent Scotland could have rescued Royal Bank of Scotland and Halifax Bank of Scotland.

***************************


The SNP’s main economic platform is that Scotland should own the revenue from North Sea oil and gas, making it a petro-dollar paradise equivalent to Norway. Although they have similar populations (5.05 million for Norway, 5.3 million for Scotland), the hydrocarbon revenues are massively different. Norway’s government gathered $40 billion in 2013 while the UK made $10.8 billion, a fall of 40 per cent from 2012. Current predictions? Further falls, to £3.3 billion ($5.5 billion) in 2016/17, according to the Institute for Fiscal Studies.

There’s no amount of careful stewardship that is going to magic $5.5 billion into $40 billion, when many of the North Sea rigs are at the end of their life and production levels are falling.

****************************

There are still serious issues that need to be addressed...... oil revenue alone (or in combination with whiskey exports and tourism) is not going to make Scotland into a land of milk and honey

Will you be better off on your own? No one can really say until enough time has passed..... but there need to be serious factual discussions instead of the "You'll be doomed" or "We'll be the most successful country in the world" that we're hearing on both sides



we also have massive natural resource in wind and wave :ok:

plenty to get bye on :ok:

lets get rid of the imperial masters once and for all :ok:

BeezerCeltic1967
13-09-14, 08:36 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23m6CukRUGM&feature=player_detailpage


You tell them girl :ok:

calm, reasonable and FACTUAL :ok:

and rips him an brand new arsehole.

Best video yet :ok:

Dermotron
13-09-14, 08:38 PM
If Scotland leaves the uk and continues with a private banking system over a public banking system it will end up a poorer version of its curren self, much much poorer. All this money that the natural resources might generate will be worthless when its only powering the banking sector, which is a take and take more system. If Scotland become independent the German model of public banking HAS to be implemented. Forget everything in terms of who runs the country, politic party members will be written into law but it will be like the majority of other capitalist countries, run and ruined by the private banking sector. If you cannot get cast iron guarantees that it will be the model the country will be run on should independence be gained, every single person should vote no. Why will you want to funding the banking sector 5 or 10 times more than you are now? Boom and bust is not fun, trust me. Or trust the 3000 families who have had to bury loved ones here over financial debt in 6 years. Or the quarter million that had to emigrate because they coukdnt afford to prop up the private banking sector.

London isnt making the decisions now and Edinburgh wont be the decisions in the future if you stay with a mainly private banking sector. Some pricks who want to get the most interest from your wage, and everything you own, to keep calling themselves businessmen will. Like they do now. Members of Parliament are just pawns, and so will the new government. Voted in to be a front to something they have 0 control over. Capitalism at its finest

BeezerCeltic1967
13-09-14, 08:50 PM
IF is a big word dermo,
it's a massive decsion and i trust the people of scotland to do what is right for us mate,
wether in the end i like it or not.

my old man was ranting about ireland tonight actually and what has happened to your country, he is voting no btw.

nobody has to tell me how important this vote is, i have 3 kids to think of as well as a mortgage but sometimes you gotta do what you feel is right, time will tell if we are right or wrong i suppose.

BeezerCeltic1967
13-09-14, 10:52 PM
https://scontent-a-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/10613034_716512475088387_123439511981166473_n.jpg? oh=5c359afec13a94c8fd577686cb72c6f8&oe=548DD402


actually baffles me as to why some clown who failed his maths exams at high school is allowed to be the chancellor :lol:

slivie
14-09-14, 04:32 AM
If there was a narrow yes vote and this happened there would be war on the streets

http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/referendum-news/ukip-and-robertson-narrow-yes-vote-may-not-mean-independence.25313695

Also this article made me smile after watching 500 yes voters laughing at 50 "bused in" no voters in city centre yesterday

http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/referendum-news/referendum-fever-takes-hold-as-public-flock-to-city-centre-yes-hub.25312998

Craig Forrest
14-09-14, 05:05 AM
We had the same issue in Quebec..... a bunch of people said it should be a 2/3 majority....... the Supreme Court clarified that 50% plus 1 was enough..... will no doubt be the same for Scotland

too bad it's so close.... either way the vote goes will leave about half the population upset and the winning side had better move quickly to make sure the split doesn't widen too much

BeezerCeltic1967
14-09-14, 07:53 AM
whatever way it goes, you can't just ignore almost half the population if indeed it is so close in the end. i doubt that many people will be silenced so easily.

maybe we will get a civil war out of it?? :laser::argue::brick: the bigot with the union jack on a flagpole in his garden just round the corner from me would be 1s t on my list :lol:

BeezerCeltic1967
14-09-14, 08:01 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUUfV7GvrHY&feature=player_detailpage

reason 1000345 to vote yes :ok:

a pound spent in croydon......

fucking idiot.

fuck you boris :ok:

BeezerCeltic1967
14-09-14, 08:05 AM
An explosive breach of the rules: Salmond blasts Treasury as its BBC email is exposed

By Judith Duffy
Sunday 14 September 2014

A DAMNING email shows the UK Treasury leaked sensitive information about a Royal Bank of Scotland contingency plan to move its registered office from an independent Scotland before the bank itself had decided to announce its plan.

A major row broke out after the BBC reported RBS plans to relocate the office to London, if there is a Yes vote, on Wednesday night. The bank's announcement was made the next morning.

It prompted First Minister Alex Salmond to write to Sir Jeremy Heywood, the head of the UK civil service, demanding an inquiry into the "clear breach of city rules".

In response, Heywood said the Treasury had just been confirming its understanding of RBS's plans after questions from the media.

But the Sunday Herald understands the Treasury sent an email to the BBC at 10.16pm on Wednesday, while the RBS board was still meeting to decide whether to tell its shareholders of its plan the next day.

The Sunday Herald understands the Treasury email said: "As you would expect, RBS have also been in touch with us and have similar plans to base themselves in London."

Salmond last night called the email ''an extraordinary and politically explosive revelation'' and demanded its immediate publication in full.

''It appears that the Treasury were briefing RBS market-sensitive information 45 minutes before the bank's board decided to announce its decision,'' he said.

''It is clear they did so in clear breach of the Treasury rule book. The Treasury fingerprints are all over this. They orchestrated it in the same way that the Prime Minister was caught red-handed orchestrating the scare surrounding comments by supermarkets.

''The Westminster establishment are now on the back foot. Not only are they fearmongering but they are not doing so competently or within the rules."

Salmond has now written again to Heywood demanding an inquiry. He said: "This makes the case for a full inquiry irresistible and … extremely urgent.

There were suggestions this week about the safety of jobs in the financial sector in Scotland.

These turned out to be false, and this was backed up in a statement by RBS chief executive Ross McEwan.

It said: "Any decision to move our registered headquarters should have no impact on everyday banking services used by our customers … This is a technical procedure regarding the location of our registered head office. It is not an intention to move operations or jobs."

Yesterday, it emerged that Edinburgh financier and RBS shareholder Peter de Vink has written to Police Scotland, the City of London Police, the Financial Conduct Authority and the Lord Advocate of Scotland asking for a probe into the release of the information relating to RBS's relocation.

In his complaint he raised concerns of "criminal and inappropriate activities" with impacts on "shareholders, customers and the wider public in Scotland". He told the Sunday Herald: "I feel that the Westminster government has behaved almost like a banana republic dictatorship.

"I am incensed … Scotland could be a great success story as an independent nation."

Last week, Lloyds Banking Group, Clydesdale Bank, Tesco Bank, TSB and Standard Life set out contingency plans post-referendum which included moving aspects of their business - such as headquarters or legal registration - south of the Border. Retailers including Asda, and John Lewis said prices would rise in an independent Scotland.

That was contradicted by others including Tim Martin, the head of Wetherspoon, one of Britain's biggest pub chains, who said Scotland could thrive on its own, and Tesco, which denied claims its prices would rise in an independent Scotland.

Senior banking experts also dismissed claims made yesterday by Deutsche Bank's chief economist David Folkerts-Landau that a Yes vote would cause the kind of instability which triggered the Great Depression of the 1930s.

Ian Blackford, who formerly ran Deutsche Bank's operations in Scotland and the Netherlands, said the argument made about the financial services sector in Scotland benefiting from the strength of the Union failed in light of the fact Deutsche Bank had shut its Edinburgh office in 2005.

HE said: "A business which had been highly successful was trashed and closed in Edinburgh by Deutsche Bank. They are saying there is a risk to the financial industry - yet they did it themselves … under the Union."

Edward McDowell, a former risk manager for Lloyds Banking Group, called the Deutsche Bank warning "totally disingenuous".

He said: "There is no balanced comment around the strong fiscal situation Scotland is in, which is clearly established in situations that are here and will remain here.

"That part of it is not getting across to give people a balanced view and allow them to make a sensible judgment for Thursday."

He decided to speak out after reading reports of risks to jobs from "relocation" of bank head offices. "It is purely a technical issue," he said.

Michelle Thomson, managing director of pro-independence group Business for Scotland, who has held senior roles at Standard Life, said: "Standard Life has managed to still retain a sense of identity and strong Scottish brand - it is headquartered in Edinburgh and has literally thousands of staff. The idea that they would move lock, stock and barrel is ridiculous."









yep,
we are all paraniod....

BeezerCeltic1967
14-09-14, 08:06 AM
BANNED,,,Lilly Gallacher
1 min · Edited

the fucking BBC banning songs on you tube :lol: :lol:
This video is a popular pro indy you tube song - it is all about the assets of Scotland - tonight I tried to access it this is what I got................https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqGFVabjHjw&feature=player_embedded

even banning songs on you tube :lol:

they are running scared :ok:

BeezerCeltic1967
14-09-14, 08:08 AM
"Yesterday, it emerged that Edinburgh financier and RBS shareholder Peter de Vink has written to Police Scotland, the City of London Police, the Financial Conduct Authority and the Lord Advocate of Scotland asking for a probe into the release of the information relating to RBS's relocation.

In his complaint he raised concerns of "criminal and inappropriate activities" with impacts on "shareholders, customers and the wider public in Scotland". He told the Sunday Herald: "I feel that the Westminster government has behaved almost like a banana republic dictatorship.

"I am incensed … Scotland could be a great success story as an independent nation."

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/h...posed.25315637



more paranoia....

Dermotron
14-09-14, 10:33 AM
IF is a big word dermo,
it's a massive decsion and i trust the people of scotland to do what is right for us mate,
wether in the end i like it or not.

my old man was ranting about ireland tonight actually and what has happened to your country, he is voting no btw.

nobody has to tell me how important this vote is, i have 3 kids to think of as well as a mortgage but sometimes you gotta do what you feel is right, time will tell if we are right or wrong i suppose.

Scotland will be a mighty country if they can start and promote a public banking system. Otherwise it will just be another nation for private banking to bleed dry. What do people pay now, 20% income tax? With public banking system there would be little or no income tax since when you get paid the interest your wages generate when paid into the bank are effectively the tax you pay. Income tax in countries run by private banking is essentially interest the banks gather, not tax that government uses for the things they say they do. Countries borrow money from private banks, to pay the interest on repayments they tax the people, so the people pay their nations debt and power the private banking sector. And it keeps on going around in circles with different names for the debt but the debt will NEVER go away and the people pay the nations debt - Or in other words the people makes billions for owner, investors, shareholders and staff of banks and very very little stays in a country, no matter what bullshit figures and statistics governments spew out to the masses.

Scotland has a great chance to break away from this model. Im pretty sure the Norwegians use a mostly banking system too and they are loaded. If they stay as they are in terms of banking and finance they are better off in the uk. Otherwise you'll be crying to the ECB for a bailout within 2 or 3 years.

Speaking of bailouts. We gave our banks €70bn to prop them up to prevent them collapsing . . . . And the interest the banks are charging us on that money will turn out to be €240bn. Which lead to us needing a bailout.

Capitalism. Another name for ponzi scheme. Amazingly ponzi schemes are illegal, unless your a private bank . . .

faz44
14-09-14, 02:20 PM
The RBS scaremongering is a fucking scandal. It's illegal, you can go to prison for insider trading if there's a smoking gun.

BeezerCeltic1967
14-09-14, 03:18 PM
Massive protests outside the bbc in glasgow today for the way they have been reporting all the stuff the last 2 weeks,

and you know what, fuck them.. im gonna stop paying my tv licence :ok: :lol:

- - - Updated - - -

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/400xY/2014/9/1410701521-814.jpg

A protest is underway outside the BBC Scotland buildings in Glasgow against alleged bias in the network's coverage of the independence referendum.
Thousands of yes supporters have turned out at Pacific Quay, Glasgow, to vent their frustration at what they see as pro-union bias in the BBC's coverage.
Some protestors have held aloft a banner calling for the Beeb's political editor Nick Robinson to be sacked.
The protest was orchestrated via social media.
The BBC have yet to make a statement responding to the protest

BeezerCeltic1967
14-09-14, 03:21 PM
The picture the BBC chose to illustrate events in Glasgow’s Buchanan Street today

make your own minds up which one they chose....


http://wingsoverscotland.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/bs2.jpg


or


http://wingsoverscotland.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/photo.jpg


fkn bbc wankers,
but hey we are all paranoid :lol:

BeezerCeltic1967
14-09-14, 03:28 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=MmAKnchI3ek

Go on yersel tommy :ok: :ok: :ok:

BeezerCeltic1967
14-09-14, 04:05 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=yq3ysTotOVE

whatever you think of him, and i actually like him. he is a great speaker :ok:

and tells it like it is :ok:

BeezerCeltic1967
14-09-14, 05:32 PM
Effect of Scottish independence on rest of the UK
I don't see this being mentioned anywhere in the media. We're being bombarded with how bad the effect will be on Scotland if it's a yes vote but we're not hearing about how the rest of the UK will cope it.

With no currency union (I know it's a given but let's assume it's not) and Scotland not being liable for a slice of the debt, who will rUK (England) manage with £1.4 trillion of debt which is rising all the time, about 8% less of a population and productivity to sustain it, having to finance a replacement for Trident on their own and no oil money which backs the price of the pound?

We never hear about this but this is exactly what the s are frightened of. They don't give a fuck about us and would let us go in heartbeat if it weren't for the oil money or our strategic position to the North Atlantic which is perfect for nuclear submarines to be dispatched quickly.

They are terrified and in turn have tried to turn the fear around back onto us.



They bang on about "What's your plan b for a currency?"

They don't even know what their plan A is for themselves without Scotland.

Those with the belief or naivety that Scotland is a subsidy burden on England are in for a rude awakening to reality.

The people of England shouldn't be saying "fuck off Scotland, good riddance" they should be pressing their MPs and Cameron about how it's going to be for them.



THEY NEED US A LOT MORE THAN WE NEED THEM, AND WESTMINSTER KNOWS IT.

Cam F
14-09-14, 05:41 PM
The picture the BBC chose to illustrate events in Glasgow’s Buchanan Street today

make your own minds up which one they chose....


http://wingsoverscotland.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/bs2.jpg


or


http://wingsoverscotland.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/photo.jpg


fkn bbc wankers,
but hey we are all paranoid :lol:

Utter ballocks but lets not let it get in the way of the truth eh Beez, you clearly don't live in Glasgow.

The picture with thousands in Buchanon Street Glasgow happened on SATURDAY 13th September not Sunday 14th September, I.e yesterday so no BBC bias there as it wasn't today :lol: so the picture they posted today was correct.

http://www.itv.com/news/update/2014-09-13/thousands-attend-yes-rally-in-glasgow/

The BBC even have again said picture on their website - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-scotland-29182072

BeezerCeltic1967
14-09-14, 05:51 PM
rangers supporter in NO shocker......

away back to yer cave,

what about yer bretheren in edinburgh yesterday :lol: making a rip roaring cunt of themselves as usual,

your gonna lose er flag mate :ok:

BeezerCeltic1967
14-09-14, 05:54 PM
the 2 photos were taken on the same day,
the date may have been wrong but IT WAS THE SAME DAY, BUT LETS NOT LET THE FACTS GET IN THE WAY OF A STORY EH................................................ .................................................. .........................

:ok:

- - - Updated - - -

trying to find the orange order video for ye mate,
it's a fucking belter :ok: piping hot :lol:

will post it later, it's from yesterday and it a belter :lol: another reason to vote YES :ok:

- - - Updated - - -

http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/live-experience/cps/624/mcs/media/images/77569000/jpg/_77569876_023880746.jpg

she is a keeper :lol:

BeezerCeltic1967
14-09-14, 05:55 PM
https://scontent-a-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/10632826_975146782530652_220204199048759837_n.jpg? oh=93aeaab33389d64eb67079f9bfc9b3eb&oe=549B0D87


https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/10620626_975146849197312_6829972793492679724_n.jpg ?oh=85cfc7b8d70c894cbe18139841a67d13&oe=54CA1843&__gda__=1418830538_2b08fcbd458afe3cf9ae3e0c37fc9b2 b



the oo say no :lol:

YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES


heading out to pub, but will deffo post that video later :ok:

Cam F
14-09-14, 05:57 PM
You must be close to getting two threads banned with your shite views.

Roll on Friday :D

BeezerCeltic1967
14-09-14, 05:59 PM
Time to stand up on thursday, not often the working class people of Scotland have a voice, but by fuck do we have on this week. HOPE OVER FEAR!!!!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZrdo1PuUvQ&feature=player_detailpage

Have the courage to vote YES, or be a coward and vote no... and prepare to be pillaged.

BeezerCeltic1967
14-09-14, 06:01 PM
You must be close to getting two threads banned with your shite views.

Roll on Friday :D

shite views? why is that? coz the don't agree with yours?

away and bolt, run away to admin, or tell somebody else you play 00/01 :lol: must be 10 mins since you last said it :lol:

:wave:

BeezerCeltic1967
14-09-14, 11:11 PM
the more i think about this, the more YES can't lose.
narrow no win = another referendum = if the powers at be don't deliver or take the piss = YES landslide in next [and if it's a no, there will be another vote.]

so when you actually step back and think about it, we can;t really lose? altho i would love to fuck it right up westminster this time :ok: from my own chat in the pubs etc today, i can't see anything else than a YES :ok: about 30 people spoken to about it and 3 or 4 said no. i fully expect the lies and bullshit to go into overdrive from no this week tho, should be fun watching them squirm :lol: if we are that irrelevant than whats the problem??????????????????????????????????????????? ??????????????????????????????????????????????????

or,


do they need us more than we need them......


:ok:

Ste117
14-09-14, 11:11 PM
Whats the point in highlighting propaganda, we all know its there, it will always be there. Their is no politics without propaganda. Scotland will use theirs, Westminster will use theirs. Both sides are using it to their advantage. Isn't that what you do if you want to win a debate or in this case a referendum.

You have to be looking at things through tainted glasses if you think otherwise. The winner of this will be who has the best propaganda machine in my opinion. At the end of the day the voters will all listen to it.

BeezerCeltic1967
14-09-14, 11:16 PM
Alex Salmond in his [and my] home town tomorrw at 2pm :ok: :ok: :ok:

will hopefully get some pics/vids :ok:

BeezerCeltic1967
14-09-14, 11:18 PM
Whats the point in highlighting propaganda, we all know its there, it will always be there. Their is no politics without propaganda. Scotland will use theirs, Westminster will use theirs. Both sides are using it to their advantage. Isn't that what you do if you want to win a debate or in this case a referendum.

You have to be looking at things through tainted glasses if you think otherwise. The winner of this will be who has the best propaganda machine in my opinion. At the end of the day the voters will all listen to it.

yeah lets not highlight it and lets get shat all over....
that'll do.........

BeezerCeltic1967
14-09-14, 11:20 PM
Whats the point in highlighting propaganda, we all know its there, it will always be there. Their is no politics without propaganda. Scotland will use theirs, Westminster will use theirs. Both sides are using it to their advantage. Isn't that what you do if you want to win a debate or in this case a referendum.

You have to be looking at things through tainted glasses if you think otherwise. The winner of this will be who has the best propaganda machine in my opinion. At the end of the day the voters will all listen to it.


can you give me some comparisons between scotland using "theirs" and westminster using their's please?

just so we can even them up, ya know.

BeezerCeltic1967
14-09-14, 11:22 PM
Whats the point in highlighting propaganda, we all know its there, it will always be there. Their is no politics without propaganda. Scotland will use theirs, Westminster will use theirs. Both sides are using it to their advantage. Isn't that what you do if you want to win a debate or in this case a referendum.

You have to be looking at things through tainted glasses if you think otherwise. The winner of this will be who has the best propaganda machine in my opinion. At the end of the day the voters will all listen to it.


so, so ignorrant...

maybe 30 years ago yes,

but in the age of social media when each no lie is exposed in minutes it's a different story m8,
this isn't a Quebec brainwashing before the days of the internet anymore.

BeezerCeltic1967
14-09-14, 11:31 PM
Whats the point in highlighting propaganda,.


This is the point ste,

its our country, a country as scotsmen that "most" of us love dearly. why the fuck should we be dictated to???
we have sat back and took it for too long, thursday is OUR day, the poor mans voice, the working mans voice. the voice of a people who have been treated with contempt for far, far too long by goverments WE NEVER VOTED FOR, is that so unreasonable??? do we not deserve the right to determine OUR OWN destiny????

Ste117
14-09-14, 11:41 PM
This is the point ste,

its our country, a country as scotsmen that "most" of us love dearly. why the fuck should we be dictated to???
we have sat back and took it for too long, thursday is OUR day, the poor mans voice, the working mans voice. the voice of a people who have been treated with contempt for far, far too long by goverments WE NEVER VOTED FOR, is that so unreasonable??? do we not deserve the right to determine OUR OWN destiny????

Yes you do but as an Englishman I hope you don't as you have pointed out, we stand to lose a lot and Cameron and the fucking Tories will not drag us out of it. They will further deepen it, like they have for the last 4 years. Not to mention carrying on taking from the poor to give to the rich. I have more believe in Man Utd getting relegated than the Tories sorting this country out.

BeezerCeltic1967
14-09-14, 11:42 PM
If Scotland leaves the uk and continues with a private banking system over a public banking system it will end up a poorer version of its curren self, much much poorer. All this money that the natural resources might generate will be worthless when its only powering the banking sector, which is a take and take more system. If Scotland become independent the German model of public banking HAS to be implemented. Forget everything in terms of who runs the country, politic party members will be written into law but it will be like the majority of other capitalist countries, run and ruined by the private banking sector. If you cannot get cast iron guarantees that it will be the model the country will be run on should independence be gained, every single person should vote no. Why will you want to funding the banking sector 5 or 10 times more than you are now? Boom and bust is not fun, trust me. Or trust the 3000 families who have had to bury loved ones here over financial debt in 6 years. Or the quarter million that had to emigrate because they coukdnt afford to prop up the private banking sector.

London isnt making the decisions now and Edinburgh wont be the decisions in the future if you stay with a mainly private banking sector. Some pricks who want to get the most interest from your wage, and everything you own, to keep calling themselves businessmen will. Like they do now. Members of Parliament are just pawns, and so will the new government. Voted in to be a front to something they have 0 control over. Capitalism at its finest


i appreciate what you are saying dermo, i really really do mate. On thur we all have a massive choice to make and hopefully the right choice is ade [how can a true scotsman vote no??] what will be will be, but i will be able to hold my head high and look myself in the mirror that i did my bit against the westminster overlords. scotland ain't perfect, far from it, but how anybody can think that their country will be better served with people 500 miles away making choices that affect me, my son and daughters and my grandchildren is madness. they have done nothing for us, they have taken from us and destroyed families along the way - look at what the tories done to scotland mate. they near destroyed us, TAX CUTS FOR THE RICH AND MORE CUTS FOR THE POOR - fuck them and fuck that.

any cunt who votes no really needs their head examined imo.

BeezerCeltic1967
14-09-14, 11:45 PM
Yes you do but as an Englishman I hope you don't as you have pointed out, we stand to lose a lot and Cameron and the fucking Tories will not drag us out of it. They will further deepen it, like they have for the last 4 years. Not to mention carrying on taking from the poor to give to the rich. I have more believe in Man Utd getting relegated than the Tories sorting this country out.


and the rest,
you will be in a bad bad way,

hence operation fear from the media etc etc etc.


i hope we stand strong on thursday :ok:


they know they need us more than we need them.


how any scot could vote no is beyond me tbh, and hopefully the polls will show that on thur.


i thnk the polls are a mile out tbh, hard pushed to find a no voter from being down the boozer tonight.


working class people have had enough. our time is now :ok:

Ste117
14-09-14, 11:48 PM
Even Manchester want change now, how many more will follow.

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/business/business-news/should-greater-manchester-follow-scotlands-7750466

BeezerCeltic1967
14-09-14, 11:50 PM
Even Manchester want change now, how many more will follow.

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/business/business-news/should-greater-manchester-follow-scotlands-7750466

GO MANCHESTER :ok:

Ste117
14-09-14, 11:55 PM
http://news.sky.com/story/1335700/devo-manc-northern-cities-eye-greater-powers

similar article on Sky News.

slivie
15-09-14, 03:35 AM
Probably the 2 best speeches/videos for me are from Jim Sillars, definitely worth a watch!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbiC4maB6iE


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VVZtQFsyHjQ&list=UUA1SnaX88FFgyevCuSg27gA

Craig Forrest
15-09-14, 03:47 AM
so if 50% + 1 Scots vote to separate from the UK, can border towns where there is strong Unionist support then vote to break away from Scotland and stay with the UK?

Also, if Scotland becomes independent, they would have to reapply to join the EU, correct? Which means that Scots wouldn't have the free trade and access to work across Europe that they currently enjoy.

Plus if there is no currency union (as there very well might not be), then there will be a huge financial uncertainty in Scotland and investors may be wary of investing there which would lead to negative economic issues..... sure Scotland could keep using the pound but the Scots version wouldn't be on the same level footing as the legit English pound and would probably be worth less.

Beez, I can see both sides of the argument, but I think you saying stuff like
any cunt who votes no really needs their head examined imo. is not helpful..... what if the No side wins because of the uncertainty and a majority of the people don't want to bargain "what might be" for something that they know and have lived with their entire lives. It's a huge risk and one you can't go back from in a few years time if say you end up like Slovakia instead of Norway.... the future is uncertain and relying on what you hope might happen in the best case scenario is a dangerous game to play.

What if yes wins and you guys end up as a poorer and less influential country..... it could happen.... and then you guys would be free and independent but maybe wishing you'd never left the union.

There are many logical arguments on both sides and supporting both viewpoints but they've been lost with all the Yes and No propaganda that is floating around.... and if the yes side loses, then they lose..... no one is going to have an appetite for another referendum anytime soon....

but if your side does lose, will you accept the result and move on, or will you cry foul and claim a conspiracy and get all pissed about the Proddies and the Unionists and the Tories and god knows who else.....

BeezerCeltic1967
15-09-14, 05:50 AM
so if 50% + 1 Scots vote to separate from the UK, can border towns where there is strong Unionist support then vote to break away from Scotland and stay with the UK?

Also, if Scotland becomes independent, they would have to reapply to join the EU, correct? Which means that Scots wouldn't have the free trade and access to work across Europe that they currently enjoy.

Plus if there is no currency union (as there very well might not be), then there will be a huge financial uncertainty in Scotland and investors may be wary of investing there which would lead to negative economic issues..... sure Scotland could keep using the pound but the Scots version wouldn't be on the same level footing as the legit English pound and would probably be worth less.

Beez, I can see both sides of the argument, but I think you saying stuff like is not helpful..... what if the No side wins because of the uncertainty and a majority of the people don't want to bargain "what might be" for something that they know and have lived with their entire lives. It's a huge risk and one you can't go back from in a few years time if say you end up like Slovakia instead of Norway.... the future is uncertain and relying on what you hope might happen in the best case scenario is a dangerous game to play.

What if yes wins and you guys end up as a poorer and less influential country..... it could happen.... and then you guys would be free and independent but maybe wishing you'd never left the union.

There are many logical arguments on both sides and supporting both viewpoints but they've been lost with all the Yes and No propaganda that is floating around.... and if the yes side loses, then they lose..... no one is going to have an appetite for another referendum anytime soon....

but if your side does lose, will you accept the result and move on, or will you cry foul and claim a conspiracy and get all pissed about the Proddies and the Unionists and the Tories and god knows who else.....


i will because i believe either way we can't lose, if we lose the vote and things don't change and we keep on being treated like shit then no doubt about it there will be a 2nd referendum and in that one the same mistakes won't be made. however would be better if we did it first time round :ok: it's win win mate.

Cam F
15-09-14, 07:41 AM
i will because i believe either way we can't lose, if we lose the vote and things don't change and we keep on being treated like shit then no doubt about it there will be a 2nd referendum and in that one the same mistakes won't be made. however would be better if we did it first time round :ok: it's win win mate.

If you lose it will be 20-30 years before another referendum.

I think it will be a no victory and a lot clearer than the polls.

Most people voting yes seem to be because they hate the tories, hate the English or are umemployed.

I would love to vote yes but need facts not a wish list backed up by old oil figures.

Dermotron
15-09-14, 08:17 AM
I would love to vote yes but need facts not a wish list backed up by old oil figures.

In the current set up doesnt this belong to the uk? Why is it seemingly certain to so many that the uk will just hand it over. I cant see them doing so so tbh. There's too much hinging on future prosperity on something the country may or may not own. Depending on where you get the capital needed to keep everything running after independence the money generated from that oil aint Scotlands or the UK's anyhow.

Erkifino
15-09-14, 09:08 AM
can you give me some comparisons between scotland using "theirs" and westminster using their's please?


so, so ignorrant...
Don't be a smartarse and criticise other people's posts if you're going to be as bad...

BeezerCeltic1967
15-09-14, 09:11 AM
David beckham says no HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Is that all they have left???

Hahaha some clown with no links to scotland hahahah

David fucking beckham haha

BeezerCeltic1967
15-09-14, 09:38 AM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bxh6F52IQAATLJE.jpg:large



Condescending and patronising shit. They just don't fucking get it.
His statement is so full of contradictions...
1/ he lives in LA , so it wont, as he states have an effect on " us all"
2/ he tells us he does not want to tell us how to vote....
3/ he then tells us we should vote to keep things the same..

:lol: a few more votes to the YES after folk see that :ok:

who are they gonna wheel out next? the lads from one direction? :lol:

Cringeworthy as fuck :ok:


I also hear cameron is coming back to scotland today, wonder if he will go on the streets and talk to people or hide in a studio again?? The cunt.

BeezerCeltic1967
15-09-14, 09:39 AM
At the end of the day,
all the yes voters are asking for is a chance for a country to determine it's own future, surely each country deserves that chance? and should have that right?

BeezerCeltic1967
15-09-14, 09:46 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=dEkY6Z2VZW4

they must all be paranoid as well....

Shame on you bbc

BeezerCeltic1967
15-09-14, 10:10 AM
no discussion. simply a secret deal in 1999 extending maritime border in a northerly direction from berwick upon tweed, whereas it used to be east from berwick.

it was stolen by blair and dewar at time of devolution. bastards!

http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archiv...me-boundaries/


that is fucking unreal :puke:

dewars statue needs brought down.

better together and aw that.....

faz44
15-09-14, 11:26 AM
On the issue of currency, the EU have said that Scotland would be considered a new applicant to the EU and would have to accept the Euro. However, this situation is without precedent and the Scots could challenge this in the European courts themselves.

faz44
15-09-14, 11:33 AM
At least you now realise Tony Blair is a cunt. Twenty years too late but let's embrace that you came to the party at all.

Jokerjake7
15-09-14, 01:39 PM
This whole thing has just been a farce as far as I am concerned. It just boils down to we hate the English and Tories VS you don't know what will happen if you go independent. I've seen very few facts that could really help voters decide. Personally I do think that it is beneficial to both countries for the UK to remain as it is, although both countries will most likely be fine in the long term.

In the event of a no vote though I would like something where England only issues are dealt with within England, like what the Scottish have. I'm still bitter about 2004 :P.

BeezerCeltic1967
15-09-14, 01:54 PM
excuse me,

i don't "hate" the english.

Craig Forrest
15-09-14, 02:00 PM
On the issue of currency, the EU have said that Scotland would be considered a new applicant to the EU and would have to accept the Euro. However, this situation is without precedent and the Scots could challenge this in the European courts themselves.

Well the Czechs and Slovaks split and then joined the EU in 2004..... granted the former Czechoslovakia wasn't an EU member first....

Still I'm sure that a newly independent country needs to apply for EU membership and doesn't just get it automatically just because the country they split from was a member... either way, becoming suddenly non-EU might have an impact for trade and work and immigration/emmigration

Craig Forrest
15-09-14, 02:36 PM
excuse me,

i don't "hate" the english.

Nope.... don't think you've lumped "the English" together in any of your rants against the Tories.... you're usually not that broad with your dislike :ok:

...except for the No campaigners as you seem to think that anyone on the No side is not a true Scot:


[how can a true scotsman vote no??]

anyone on the No side has some serious mental issues:


any cunt who votes no really needs their head examined imo.

and you're a coward if you don't believe what the Yes side says and have concerns about the risks of becoming fully independent:


Have the courage to vote YES, or be a coward and vote no... and prepare to be pillaged.

And I love this:


we live in a democracy now :ok: thanks to the sacrifice's of our ancestors and their brave fights against countries who had other ideas for us. people have the right to vote yes or no, and whatever happens will happen :ok:

Unless the No side wins, then we'll have another referendum because we won't be held down.... in fact, we'll just keep having referendum's until the yes side wins 50% + 1

(of course if the no side wins 50% + 1 that's not good enough, we'll just have to keep pushing until we get what we want)

BeezerCeltic1967
15-09-14, 02:40 PM
We will have another referendum IF its a NO AND our country gets raped by the tories. If they are fair with us in the event of a no vote then i would imagine things might be ok?

Alex Salmond in my home town today, gonna go down and see if i can get on the telly lol

BeezerCeltic1967
15-09-14, 02:41 PM
Just because i think no voters are fucking mad, it doesnt mean they dont have the right to do what the wish on thursday.

Craig Forrest
15-09-14, 03:09 PM
I'd love to see the Scots regain their independence.... my family are 3/4 Scots too so I have sympathy..... I'm just worried for the future of the country because I think it's very risky to leave, especially when the financial numbers I've seen (from independent sources) paint a less than rosy picture.....

If I was there I'd be sorely tempted to vote yes.... but without seeing cold hard facts and recent accurate financial projections I'd probably end up voting No because of the uncertainty

BeezerCeltic1967
15-09-14, 03:14 PM
I'd love to see the Scots regain their independence.... my family are 3/4 Scots too so I have sympathy..... I'm just worried for the future of the country because I think it's very risky to leave, especially when the financial numbers I've seen (from independent sources) paint a less than rosy picture.....

If I was there I'd be sorely tempted to vote yes.... but without seeing cold hard facts and recent accurate financial projections I'd probably end up voting No because of the uncertainty


well thank fuck yer not here then :lol:


HOPE OVER FEAR :ok:

Dermotron
15-09-14, 03:25 PM
David Cameron’s Open Letter To The People Of Scotland
September 15, 2014


Dear Scotland,
I am writing to you to urge you to vote No this Thursday as we really are Better Together. What a lovely slogan that is, it puts the wind in the sails of the Union, does it not? And it is a simple message, which is something we knew we would need as the literacy rates in Scotland are traditionally quite terrible. ‘Better Together’ has four Es, and four Ts, you can’t say we didn’t try to simplify it. Now my government and I have been accused of being condescending, but honestly Scotland – look up the dictionary and you will find the definition of that word which you will now understand correctly and you will see I am not talking down to anyone.

‘Oh, I don’t like that fucking toff Cameron with his melty skin, which seems in a hurry to leave his face and head south for France’ I hear you cry. But, please, stop! I understand you Scotland, I am a working class, salt of the earth masculine man much like you and your mother. I have watched Trainspotting and would love to see your long line of documentaries continue to prosper – but as part of Britain. You probably didn’t know this, but I was actually in Scotland once and I count Braveheart as one of the films I have watched.

This isn’t about the haves and have nots, it is not about the Us vs Them. This is about the mistake we made in letting you make a decision about something. If I could I would take it back, but I can’t, so all I am left with is an anecdote about the time I ate haggis, a battered mars bar, drank Irn Bru or something similarly Scottish and disgusting. For the record, I enjoyed eating whichever dish appeals to you the most.

‘But you’re a cunt’ I hear some interesting looking person pipe up from the back of the room. Not true, who do you think intervened on behalf of the Scottish people to ensure the current Doctor Who was incomprehensible, that’s right me! See, I know what is best for Scotland.

There has been a lot of fearmongering of late and this something I can’t abide Scotland, I cannae abide it (see I know you, I am you). Yes, it is true if Scotland gains independence you will individually loss £2 million each and Rab C Nesbitt will no longer be available on Scottish TV. A tragedy, we would all like to avoid. Keep Britain, British Scotland, I beg of you. I won’t descend down on one knee as I am better than you and we both know it, but still, please vote No. If you do, we promise to change the prevailing attitudes of all ruling British governments of the last 30 years and start to really care about what happens north of Newcastle. You have my complete and utterly changeable commitment on that. Ahhh, I’ve finished drinking a nice cold pint of Tennants while writing this, honestly I have, how refreshing and Scottish.

Vote No and thanks,

Dave

Craig Forrest
15-09-14, 03:27 PM
No... I wouldn't want to bet my future and my kids future on a "maybe".... if the Yes side could provide more factual evidence of how the economy would go in the event that Scotland does not get admitted to the EU right away, does not get a currency union with England, and ends up with far less revenue from the dwindling oil reserves.....

It would be far better if they said "Here is what we hope will happen, but even in a worst case scenario, we have all these facts and figures that show we'll still be better off on our own"

instead, all I've seen is "This is how we'll be when we're independent." full stop.

and that's not a solid enough plan to base a future on

But as it is your country and your decision, what I think doesn't really matter. I'm merely stating what would have made me vote yes, had I been living there and eligible to vote :ok:

Cam F
15-09-14, 05:26 PM
Well thought and put across points #1.

That is exactly what I think , who wouldn't love to be our own independent country, it is a lovely thought and my heart says hell yes.

...but working in financial markets for 15 years that industry would be affected big time , as would my wife's job, as would my home town be turned into a ghost town with my house price vastly reduced.

I'm not prepared to vote yes and gamble my entire families future without cold hard facts, not a wish list of ifs,buts and maybes for the sake of the braveheart idealists.

Craig Forrest
15-09-14, 07:28 PM
Well thought and put across points #1.

That is exactly what I think , who wouldn't love to be our own independent country, it is a lovely thought and my heart says hell yes.

...but working in financial markets for 15 years that industry would be affected big time , as would my wife's job, as would my home town be turned into a ghost town with my house price vastly reduced.

I'm not prepared to vote yes and gamble my entire families future without cold hard facts, not a wish list of ifs,buts and maybes for the sake of the braveheart idealists.

You're obviously not a True Scot... you're just a dumb unionist prod cunt that needs his head examined :ok:

faz44
15-09-14, 11:02 PM
Is there also not a possibility that there's a group at the very top of the yes campaign who see independence as a chance to elevate themselves into a new elite? Sweep away the old order and take their spots. After the machinations behind the credit crunch, I trust nobody.

BeezerCeltic1967
16-09-14, 01:45 PM
just read that the brit government has just announced that if Scotland votes yes then then will not be able to use the current universal systems of measurement and that as all these will remain property of Britain and not Scotland

supposedly no longer will scots be able to use the litre or the pint or the gallon

Scotland will have to revert to " the dram"

with 347 drams to a litre petrol prices would have to rise considerably to install new dram measurement machines

also you wont be able to use miles or the European kilometre as barroso from the European union has also said they will not allow the use of their measurements

Scotland will revert to the dauner as a measurement of distance with roads being entitled a small dauner or motorways as a long dauner

Cam F
16-09-14, 06:24 PM
https://scontent-a-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/t31.0-8/10710399_727989683951342_3561180273988786297_o.png


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-29213416

BeezerCeltic1967
16-09-14, 07:04 PM
BBC?


cam, get real the bbc have just had their house put in order on the 5 o clock news.
The labour msp who is spouting this pish about a leaked document detailing cuts has herself been involved in setting the budget for this year and 2015. The bbc reporter was then asked why the scottish people should be taxed twice to increase money for the nhs in scotland when its the tories that have cut the budget allowance to scotland. It has been made perfectly clear that if scotlandcis in control of its own money we will have a better nhs scotland.
It is also worth remembering that the vote is on an independent scotland not on snp policy or labour policy. The various ploitical parties will put their proposals for scotlans to the vote after independence. It is not a certainty that the snp will govern scotland. What is certain is we will have more money at our disposal to disperse around scotland. Its not rocket science to work out that our taxes go south to subsidise the £1.3trillion of debt which means less comes back to us. Do not be taken in by a tory led media especially the bbc when the detail of their news highlight has just been exposed as an another false claim. :ok:

HOPE OVER FEAR

BeezerCeltic1967
16-09-14, 07:23 PM
wonder who will get the last word on the B brittish B bullshit C company tonight?

BeezerCeltic1967
16-09-14, 07:25 PM
yes,
just as i thought....

2 better together folk....


pretty terrible what is going on here tbh.

BeezerCeltic1967
16-09-14, 07:39 PM
https://scontent-b-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/v/t1.0-9/s851x315/10624844_866775513333360_8461120042287541475_n.png ?oh=cbbc2286ee7ce66812ce47e789001e4d&oe=548558AF

BeezerCeltic1967
16-09-14, 07:42 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=m3ErIIwXWGI

Well said hen :ok:

Cam F
16-09-14, 07:45 PM
Online gambling firm Betfair starts paying out on No bets

Gambling company Betfair said on Tuesday it was already paying out winnings to customers who had staked money on a "No" vote to independence.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/referendum-news/online-gambling-firm-betfair-starts-paying-out-on-no-bets.1410874110
(http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/referendum-news/online-gambling-firm-betfair-starts-paying-out-on-no-bets.1410874110)
http://fairbet.su/en/wp-content/uploads/Betfair_logo.jpg (http://fairbet.su/en/gogo/betfairen/)

Cam F
16-09-14, 07:50 PM
http://www.scotlandsaysnaw.com/business-for-scotland-exposed/

Business for Scotland exposed…

BOGUS businesses, companies based in England and sole traders are among the so-called 200 Scottish business leaders supporting separation, Scotland says Naw can reveal.

Last month, an open letter was signed by 200 supposed “Scottish business leaders” said to be in favour of independence.

The list appeared on the website of Business for Scotland, a network of companies supporting separation, and the Herald website [1].

However, according to an investigation by sources close to Scotland says Naw, some of their businesses are actually based in England, while others appear to not even exist at all.
One of the investigators said: “It’s a complete joke and hopefully that will be clear.

“Many of these companies are so small they don’t even have a web presence and some appear to be so small we simply cannot find anything about them online.

“Some are written incorrectly or have typos, which is indicative of the rush this was done in.”

http://www.scotlandsaysnaw.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/Business-for-scotland.png

BeezerCeltic1967
16-09-14, 08:00 PM
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2010/04/07/article-1264092-081D0A9F000005DC-144_468x339.jpg

oh look,

a no voter :lol:

- - - Updated - - -

scotlandsaynaw :lol:

BeezerCeltic1967
16-09-14, 08:02 PM
betfred :rofl: did they fools not lose £500k on paying out early on man utd to win a title a few years back?

BeezerCeltic1967
16-09-14, 08:07 PM
is was betfred :lol: i fucking knew it :lol:



A Manchester United-supporting bookmaker has tempted fate once again by paying out on his side retaining the Premier League title – even though there are still seven games remaining this season.

Monday's 2-0 win over Blackburn Rovers moved United five points clear of Manchester City and Betfred's Fred Done has risked the ire – and possible ridicule – of the blue half of Manchester by declaring the race already over.

Done lost £500,000 in 1998 when he was the first bookmaker to pay out early on the league winners. United were 12 points clear of Arsenal at the time, but went on to lose the title by one point.


:lol:

slivie
16-09-14, 08:12 PM
george square tonight

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bxq8Rf8CIAEHjt6.jpg

BeezerCeltic1967
16-09-14, 08:28 PM
88% OF SCOTTISH ONLINE BETS FOR YES

WILLIAM HILL have revealed that 88% of all bets they have taken online from clients with Scottish addresses have been for YES; compared with 70% from clients throughout England,Scotland, Wales and N Ireland.
Britain’s biggest bookmakers, Hills, who have now taken over £2million in bets on the outcome of the Referendum, and expect some £10m to be gambled industr-wide, make NO their 1/ 4 favourite, with YES offered at 11/4. ‘NO has been odds-on favourite throughout the campaign, but with YES reportedly closing up, according to various opinion polls, we would expect to see late backing for that option’ said Hill’s spokesman Graham Sharpe, adding ‘We will continue to take bets for as long as possible on polling day.’
Hills say they currently face a five figure loss should the result be NO, but will make a six figure profit should it be YES

:ok:

BeezerCeltic1967
16-09-14, 08:41 PM
https://scontent-a-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/t31.0-8/10710399_727989683951342_3561180273988786297_o.png


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-29213416


https://scontent-a-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/10606512_10205187191424050_5193550152959471889_n.j pg?oh=f49b5f07944463a42b0298538702dbc2&oe=549B486E

BeezerCeltic1967
16-09-14, 08:43 PM
I have a new hero :hail:

what a lady :ok:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Q07ZJ36ve14


gordon brown - shame on you.

Cam F
16-09-14, 09:02 PM
yeSNP - Disgraceful behaviour in Dalkeith


http://youtu.be/VpsnE_8javI

slivie
16-09-14, 10:14 PM
https://o.twimg.com/2/proxy.jpg?t=HBhkaHR0cDovL2RlYWRjbHlkZXNpZGUuZmlsZX Mud29yZHByZXNzLmNvbS8yMDE0LzA5L2JucC1raWNrLXdvbWFu LWluLXN0b21hY2hlLWF1Z3VzdC0zMC0yMDE0LmpwZz93PTY0MB TABxTABwAWABIA&s=5IFG_rd-bQHfO3qzpnTB0ci2Ai9wurcO43pVtBZXPWE

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BxmWhnVIIAEhMmp.jpg:large

Craig Forrest
16-09-14, 11:43 PM
Ah both sides are just as guilty of stupid behaviour and blatant propaganda..... but of course each side will deny what they do and attack the other for the same thing.....

The most brilliant propagandist technique will yield no success unless one fundamental principle is borne in mind constantly - it must confine itself to a few points and repeat them over and over.--Josph Goebbels

Make the lie big, make it simple, keep saying it, and eventually they will believe it.--Adolf Hitler

Craig Forrest
16-09-14, 11:45 PM
https://o.twimg.com/2/proxy.jpg?t=HBhkaHR0cDovL2RlYWRjbHlkZXNpZGUuZmlsZX Mud29yZHByZXNzLmNvbS8yMDE0LzA5L2JucC1raWNrLXdvbWFu LWluLXN0b21hY2hlLWF1Z3VzdC0zMC0yMDE0LmpwZz93PTY0MB TABxTABwAWABIA&s=5IFG_rd-bQHfO3qzpnTB0ci2Ai9wurcO43pVtBZXPWE

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BxmWhnVIIAEhMmp.jpg:large

Both sides can play this game:

An anti-English racist group linked to Scotland’s Yes campaign is behind some of the organised intimidation which drove a prominent No supporter off the streets.

Siol nan Gaidheal, or “Seed of the Gaels,” coordinated abuse and attacks during at least four street-corner meetings held by Jim Murphy, Labour’s former Scottish secretary, immediately before the growing threats forced him to suspend the events.

The group describes itself as an “ultra-nationalist organisation” and attacks English people in Scotland as “white settlers” imposing the “Lebensraum of rapacious Anglo-Saxonry” on “colonised” Scots. It says that “Scottish ethnicity” should “form the basis for Scottish citizenship”.

Craig Forrest
16-09-14, 11:46 PM
I understand Patriotism.... but this thread is getting a bit ridiculous....

ebfatz
17-09-14, 12:40 AM
Which way are you voting on Thursday Beez?
I just checked back through the last 5 pages or so of this thread and you haven't made it clear?! ;)

churky
17-09-14, 06:13 AM
This now looks like the old Scottish football thread.

BeezerCeltic1967
17-09-14, 06:26 AM
Yeah im the only 1 that hasnt made it clear.... beez this beez that.....

Cam F
17-09-14, 07:15 AM
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scottish-independence/11100754/Revealed-Alex-Salmond-personally-pressurised-St-Andrews-University-head-over-independence-concerns.html

Revealed: Alex Salmond personally pressurised St Andrews University head over independence concerns

Exclusive: First Minister phoned Prof Louise Richardson demanding she clarify remarks while emails show key aide urged principal to issue statement praising SNP Government

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/03040/Louise-ferguson_3040955b.jpg


The Scottish First Minister attempted to force the principal of St Andrews University to criticise the Government and tone down warnings she made about the adverse impact of Scottish independence. Alex Salmond telephoned Prof Louise Richardson demanding she clarify remarks she made about the consequences of leaving the UK in a conversation described as “loud and heated”.

Emails obtained by The Telegraph also show that Mr Salmond’s office attempted to have Prof Richardson release a statement praising the Scottish government and criticising Westminster over higher education policy.

The revelation that he attempted to quieten the leader of one of Scotland’s most revered institutions, where Mr Salmond studied economics and medieval history, is the most high-profile example yet of his questionable campaign tactics which critics say amount to bullying.

The disclosure comes after days of claims about intimidating behaviour by Yes supporters.

Craig Forrest
17-09-14, 01:45 PM
As soon as the vote is done I'm cleaning up this thread :ok:

slivie
17-09-14, 03:30 PM
As soon as the vote is done I'm cleaning up this thread :ok:

If there is a no vote, the nationalist won't go away quitely into the night, it will be like Quebec, the neverendum referendum

Craig Forrest
17-09-14, 03:37 PM
If there is a no vote, the nationalist won't go away quitely into the night, it will be like Quebec, the neverendum referendum

So if it's 50+1 Yes then you'll separate but if it's 50+1 no you'll keep trying until it happens?

I'll let you in on a secret.... ever since the 50+1 in Quebec for the No side, the independence movement has been slowly dying because the Quebecers realized they're better off as part of Canada..... recently there was a Provincial election, the governing (nationalist) party had a decent lead, mentioned separatism, and got destroyed.

People don't like constant uncertainty hanging over their heads..... if it's yes fine. If it's no, fine..... but if it's no and the SNP keeps pushing and pushing and bringing it up over and over, they are going to lose the moderate support and only have the hardcore nationalist group left..... and that's not going to help them

Craig Forrest
17-09-14, 03:38 PM
btw, they've only ever had 2.... one in 1980 and one in 1995

J.D.
17-09-14, 04:05 PM
I voted No at the Quebec 1995 referendum. I was 18 and it was the first time I stepped in a voting poll. I had the ballot in hands and still, I had no idea what I should vote. The Yes was supposed to win, my father had specifically prohibited me to vote yes but I had that little souverainiste fiber. It would have been historical; we would have had our own country. I’m not necessarily proud of it but I voted no, because somehow, I didn’t want to be responsible if things turn ugly after the independence.

Thank god I had the clarity of mind to vote NO. Today, I would never ever vote Yes and let my future in the hand of those ecologist socialist lunatic. I know nothing about the Scotland debate but I know I would vote NO. The Quebec independentists have ruined the project for me forever.

slivie
17-09-14, 04:13 PM
So if it's 50+1 Yes then you'll separate but if it's 50+1 no you'll keep trying until it happens?

I'll let you in on a secret.... ever since the 50+1 in Quebec for the No side, the independence movement has been slowly dying because the Quebecers realized they're better off as part of Canada..... recently there was a Provincial election, the governing (nationalist) party had a decent lead, mentioned separatism, and got destroyed.

People don't like constant uncertainty hanging over their heads..... if it's yes fine. If it's no, fine..... but if it's no and the SNP keeps pushing and pushing and bringing it up over and over, they are going to lose the moderate support and only have the hardcore nationalist group left..... and that's not going to help them

The SNP have always said that it is a generation question if it is a no vote then 20/30 years down the line it may come again. If it's a no vote, then that doesn't change my belief overnight that we shouldn't be an independent country that will always remain, i will accept the vote be it 50+1 no or yes, but if it's 50+1 then the 49% will still feel independence is best even if they never again have a chane to vote on it in their lifetime

Craig Forrest
17-09-14, 06:41 PM
I voted No at the Quebec 1995 referendum. I was 18 and it was the first time I stepped in a voting poll. I had the ballot in hands and still, I had no idea what I should vote. The Yes was supposed to win, my father had specifically prohibited me to vote yes but I had that little souverainiste fiber. It would have been historical; we would have had our own country. I’m not necessarily proud of it but I voted no, because somehow, I didn’t want to be responsible if things turn ugly after the independence.

Thank god I had the clarity of mind to vote NO. Today, I would never ever vote Yes and let my future in the hand of those ecologist socialist lunatic. I know nothing about the Scotland debate but I know I would vote NO. The Quebec independentists have ruined the project for me forever.

Holy shit another Canadian? That makes 4 now.....

Craig Forrest
17-09-14, 06:44 PM
The SNP have always said that it is a generation question if it is a no vote then 20/30 years down the line it may come again. If it's a no vote, then that doesn't change my belief overnight that we shouldn't be an independent country that will always remain, i will accept the vote be it 50+1 no or yes, but if it's 50+1 then the 49% will still feel independence is best even if they never again have a chane to vote on it in their lifetime

and if it's 50+1 the other way then 49.9% will feel like they've been forcefully ripped away from the UK..... it's not really going to be fun for the losing side...... if it was a 2/3 split or something that would be easier as it would show a clear majority.... a result this close is going to leave half the population feeling un-represented and ignored

Jesus
17-09-14, 08:07 PM
No need to clean this thread up CF, it's history in the making, let the Scots whinge.

Craig Forrest
17-09-14, 08:09 PM
I'm going to separate everything into a Scottish Referendum Thread :ok:

Jesus
17-09-14, 08:18 PM
I'm going to separate everything into a Scottish Referendum Thread :ok:
:lol: I can't wait to see what bullshit Beez comes out with when the No vote wins.

slivie
17-09-14, 09:13 PM
and if it's 50+1 the other way then 49.9% will feel like they've been forcefully ripped away from the UK..... it's not really going to be fun for the losing side...... if it was a 2/3 split or something that would be easier as it would show a clear majority.... a result this close is going to leave half the population feeling un-represented and ignored

That is democracy, i will accept if it is a no or yes vote 50.1%

Personally i don't want a slim win for either side i would much rather prefer 10%+ majority, at least that way the losers be it yes or no can't come up with excuses, anyhoo we will see

BeezerCeltic1967
17-09-14, 09:43 PM
Making your vote count:
If you removed every Scottish vote from every UK General Election for the last 40 years, the outcome would not change.
We currently have a Tory/LibDem Coalition. Scotland has 59 constituencies.
Out of those 59 constituencies, 11 voted for LibDem and 1 (Yes, ONE!!!!) was conservative. 41 were Labour. 41 against 12… yet the coalition prevailed to rule Scotland. Regardless of which party you’re voting for, that is completely unfair, and the government we have is completely unrepresentative of the Scottish people.

Because, in the UK-wide scheme of things, the other 600 MPs outside of Scotland don’t give a shit about Scotland, because regardless of what we do, it doesn’t affect their party being in power or not, because our vote doesn’t count! This was apparent in the 80’s when the Poll Tax was tested in Glasgow only. The Govt knew is was unpopular, so tested it out in an area they knew they wouldn’t lose any votes – Scotland.

Currency:
WE WILL USE THE POUND!
A currency union between Scotland & the Bank of England is preferable for BOTH parties. However, should the bank of England be completely against Scotland using it, we will continue to use the pound, we’ll just not have any control over interest rates. To quote Alistair Darling when debating Salmond “of course Scotland could use the pound!”
America imposed a trade embargo on Cuba about 40 years ago – that hasn’t stopped Cuba, or several countries throughout the world using the US Dollar as their official currency.
We can use whichever currency we like – but a pound with a currency union is preferable.

Finances, Wars & Nuclear Weapons:
Scotland has 8.3% of UK population. We receive 9.3 of the UK's public spending (higher than a lot of places in England...) BUT we pay in more taxes per head of population than the rest of the UK!

For ease, let's just say we pay in 10% and get back 9% - why should we lose that 1%? That 1% might seem small, but it's BILLIONS of pounds. We're already at a surplus there.

Scotland, as part of the UK funds projects such as HS2 (London-Manchester railway) costing £32 billion, Crossrail (rail in London) at £16 billion and Crossrail 2 at another £16 billion. Literally none of the money we pay into that benefits Scotland, as those projects are based solely for the benefit of London and Southern England. The only comparable projects we’ve had in Scotland was the Edinburgh Trams at £500 million and the M74 extension at £700m – both absolutely miniscule in comparison!

Because we are in the UK, we are involved in wars in Iraq & Afghanistan. After Iraq, we went in because we “proved” that they were a threat because they had Weapons of Mass Destruction (WMDs). At the time, half the country opposed it saying we were simply going in to for oil money as Iraq has huge oil reserves and UK & US companies could go in and extract them.

Half the country was correct. It’s since been PROVEN that the UK government 100% completely fabricated the existence of WMDs as an excuse to go into Iraq. Collectively the UK has spent about £40 BILLION on war on Iraq & Afghanistan… money we could have used for health care, tax relief, education etc.

As part of the UK, we also pay for Trident. £4Billion pounds PER YEAR to maintain it. Basically all world leaders agree that they will NEVER be used and are simply a deterrent. A lot of money to spend on something useless, eh? Not to mention – they’re nuclear weapons. All they are designed to do is to kill tens of thousands of people in one go. If there was ever an accident at Faslane, we’d be dead. Those weapons are stored 30 miles up the Clyde from Glasgow – Scotland’s biggest city.

Can you imagine the response we’d get if we suggested keeping them 30 miles from London instead?? They’re kept in Scotland because the MPs don’t give a shit what happens to Scotland – and again, they don’t have to listen… because our vote doesn’t change anything.

We do not need Nukes as a deterrent. The only threat to us currently in my opinion is terrorism/extremism – although if you think back to the London bombings, the Glasgow airport bombing and those 2 guys that murdered the soldier Lee Rigby last year… did our Nuclear weapons deter them? NO. Nukes also didn’t deter Al Queda when they flew planes into the Twin Towers.
Not to mention, the main reason we’re a target for terrorism like that is because we’re involved in illegal wars in Iraq & Afghanistan… as part of the UK.

The NHS & Free Education:
At present, the NHS and Education is completely separate from the rest of the UK. We have it ASBOLUTELY BRILLIANT. We get free healthcare, free prescriptions, free eyetests and we can go to uni for free.

In England & Wales, the NHS is being privatised at an alarming rate, and within about 10-15 years, there won’t be the “free at point of use” kind of system they have just now – it’s rapidly slipping into a system of paying for service, with contracts being sold off to private companies instead of keeping it within the public sector. The English already pay for prescriptions as well. Imagine getting ill and requiring 4 separate medications per month? The cost is huge.
We don’t have to privatise like the rest of the UK because the NHS in Scotland is already separate – however, our budgets are STILL decided by Westminster. We do not have full financial control. If we don’t have full financial control we can’t choose fully which areas to concentrate money on. If we’re independent, we will have control and we can continue to have the NHS as we know and love.

Same goes for Free Education – we get free uni, but to maintain it we need full control of our finances. English students pay £9,000 PER YEAR to go to uni. They leave uni with nearly 40 grand of debt hanging over them – can you even begin to imagine what that would feel like?

In 2010 before the last election, Uni Tuition fees were £3,000 per year, and Nick Clegg (head of lib dems) won the student vote by promising, signing a written pledge to all students across the UK that TUITION FEES WOULD NOT INCREASE. Nick Clegg then became Deputy Prime Minister in the coalition government…. and they TRIPLED the tuition fees and he lost about 90% of lib dem voters.
Nick Clegg, Ed Milliband and David Cameron have teamed up to promise and PLEDGE to Scotland that they will ensure we have more powers if we vote No – based on their previous experience of Pledges and Promises, I think they’re not to be trusted at their word.

Pensions:
The Department for Work & Pensions has officially said that if anyone has paid into a UK pension – they will receive it as they are due, as normal. There is a letter from them here:
http://nationalcollective.com/wp-con...dependence.png
In the same way that loads of people move abroad after retirement, their pension gets paid regardless of which country they live in – be it Spain, England, America, or an independent Scotland.

In conclusion:
Tomorrow is the first time in our lives that we actually truly have a vote that MEANS something. Tomorrow our vote will count, whether you vote yes or no. Tomorrow the Scottish people decide.
If Scotland vote YES tomorrow, in the future WE will elect our governments. We will get governments based in Scotland making decisions for the Scottish people. No one else can decide what’s best for Scotland other than ourselves.

Tomorrow we can vote to make Scotland a fairer country. A country without needless spending on wars and bombs. We will be in full control of our finances. The money we make as a country will be spent FULLY on our country, for the best of our country. We WILL keep the NHS. We WILL keep free education. We can do this by voting YES for independence.

Tomorrow, make please make your vote count. This can be the start of a new chapter for Scotland. In 10-15 years time, I’m absolutely certain that if you vote yes tomorrow you will not regret it. We’re never going to see a chance like this again in our lifetime. Let's take the opportunity to change Scotland for the better. Vote Yes!


So there you have it,
the reasons i am voting YES tomorrow.

HOPE OVER FEAR.

Jesus
17-09-14, 09:48 PM
YAWN. I know that you must be amazed by the fact you can copy and paste whole pages of text at your age but fuck me do you really need to post the whole fucking article?

slivie
17-09-14, 09:53 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EfUTadk1XsA