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Thread: La Liga

  1. #26
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    Maradona is better than Messi imo & is the greatest player with Pele just a short bit behind.

    Maradona was amazing, almost a 1 man team. Messi plays in possibly the greatest club team of all time with Xavi & Iniesta creating chances he doesn't create for himself.

    Maradona won WC & got to a WC final. Messi has not really done anything on world stage but still has 10 years left but having played to such a high level so young might burn out sooner like Fat Ronaldo, Kluivert...etc

    Maradona won Serie & cup winners cup with Napoli, which even today would be an amazing feat.

    I think personally Messi will never be judged into the top 5 players ever unless he plays for another team or shines in a poor Barca side & wins or nearly wins a WC.





  2. #27
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    pele & maradona agree who the BEST ever was, come on guys wise up.


  3. #28
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    I wouldn't point personal and team achievements to decide the best player. I would consider it's technique and playing ability. Even the concept is very wide, as it's often common to only choose AM or FW, and not DF. Beckembauer for example. He was wide better than many of the greatest strikers in shooting and dribbling, but still he pays a tax for his position in field. I already said that Messi can win 101 WCs in a row playing alone, and I would still prefer Diego. I saw Maradona crossing the ball from the corner with his head and assisting a team mate in the small area. I saw Maradona controlling with chest between two defenders and in the same move, playing a one-two with a team mate using the same impulse from the chest, and then scoring near the far post. I saw Maradona killing the ball with his head while in top pace with a defender in pursuit, then dribbling to the goal line and assisting a mate with a "rabona" cross.

    I've never seen these kind of things in any footballer ever. Maybe because I didn't have the chance to watch Pele, Di Stéfano or "charro" Moreno. Some grandpas even say that Leónidas and Bernabé Ferreyra were even better, and they've been unseen by most of the current football fans.

    Pele could have been probably better than Diego, but in the small quantity of video documentation of him, I've never seen moves like the ones Diego showed me.

    Then again, I don't think that Maradona played alone. He had good teams, with exception of Argentinos Jrs, a team where his campaigns seem more heroic for me than the ones in Napoli. Argentinos Jrs, before 1980s was a squad used to battle bravely against relegation. A very small team indeed. With the young Diego (age from 15 to 19) Argentinos Jrs battled for title in every league, finishing 2nd, 3rd or 4th in all. Diego is the youngest local league topscorer in the whole world. He was topscorer at age of 16. He was captain at that age for god sake.

    Messi will never succeed in WC unless the whole team plays well. I repeat, he's not a natural leader, he will not lead against great odds.

  4. #29
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    BeckeNNNNNNNbauer!!!

  5. #30
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    Yes, Franz was a great player. His understanding of the game always inspire me when I play, even when I'm only able to understand 1% of what he did.

  6. #31
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    and still no mention of the BEST.

    be ashamed.

    I told you Pele and Maradona both agree, so that's it settled

  7. #32
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    Pelé is the best imo,

    from the few footages i've seen, saw him doing things I thought he was doing that accidentaly, but when you see him repeat moves over and over, both feet worked perfectly, superb header, the ball was always glued to his feet, a sense of being at union with the ball.... Messi has this last one, but is not a complete player like Pelé... How many goals did he score with his head? (and yes, i know he scored one at a CL final with MU).

    Messi is the best nowasays because he is the exception in a world of mechanic footballers who are not trained to be do-it-yourself players. 50 years ago the training and player instructions were totally diferent: attackers had more freedom to do whatever they wanted.

    Nowadays a winger has to help the wingback, and even the striker has to perform defensively when without the ball. If you see a Batça match, you dont see Messi running back when the team loses the ball (neither CR7), and that allows him to perform like the old timers in an age you'd think attacking football was over. Messi is indeed the best of this generation, but he benefits from being in a big club that has the resources to allow him to be in that position, whilst the other potential world class players have to mind other tactical match situations and will never evolve to that world class genius we see week in week in (some say his lack of injury is due to his hormone treatment used to overcome his growing deficit when younger, and the truth is, although his technique is above discussion, no other player had received such medical "protection" when growing up).

    Messi is the finished "product" of the modern footballing science, as is CR7 with his constant gym training, and we can never compare Maradonas or Pelés to them. Different kind of tactics, instructions, training, etc. Each one was the best of their time, but only one has had that international recognition as Pelé (3 World Cups, two Libertadores, etc, and he was starting at Santos XI at 15, in the Brazilian National Team at 16, wining his first world cup at 17)

    Maradona was a freak as well, but he had a lot of trouble in his career to be as constant as Pelé ever was. And I love Maradona. His technique is overwhelming. But he was never the complete player Pelé was. Messi is in the same situation.

    I'm not saying that CR7 is better than Messi altogether, but they are different players and it is too early to assess a whole career... They have like 10 more years on their careers in their feet. A lot of the old timers were easily forgot because people have never saw them play (Best, Eusebio, Di Stefano ...) and 30 years into the future we may be trying to convince young kids that Messi was the best ever compare to some other wonderkid that is still to come to this world

  8. #33
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    You are wrong if you think that Pelé was constant in his career. He was well known to lack fitness in his late 20s. In Cosmos he only trained twice a week. He was a monster like Diego early on. And as you say, it's possible that he might have been the best. His technique was class itself.

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fiestita View Post
    You are wrong if you think that Pelé was constant in his career. He was well known to lack fitness in his late 20s. In Cosmos he only trained twice a week. He was a monster like Diego early on. And as you say, it's possible that he might have been the best. His technique was class itself.
    I dont knw about his late 20's nut he only signed for Cosmos at 35, and by then he had a reputation surpassed by no one, he coulf do whatever he wanted at amateur Cosmos. Same thing must have happened at Santos, he was a living god, he could do whatever he wanted (take examples from nowadays: Adriano, Ronaldo, Ronaldinho Gaucho were huge stars in latest brazilian editions but off the field they were a total disgrace. I dont even want to talk about Maradona )

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fiestita View Post
    Then I will not waste any more words in arguing with you.
    Who is arguing? So biased towards Argentinians its unreal. Thats my opinion, not an argument.

    For the record I agree with Chris, BEST was the BEST

  11. #36
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    I like Kuntz
















    :doggy:

  12. #37
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    Hoddle

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fodster View Post
    Who is arguing? So biased towards Argentinians its unreal. Thats my opinion, not an argument.

    For the record I agree with Chris, BEST was the BEST
    Well... It isn't my fault that I was born in a nation full of the best players in history. It's kinda logic I'd prefer Diego, Di Stefano, Labruna, Moreno, Messi, before George Best.

  14. #39
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    pffffft.

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fiestita View Post
    Well... It isn't my fault that I was born in a nation full of the best players in history.


    ok then

  16. #41
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    But don't get me wrong! Still, I love how did Best play. He's a player every manager would love in his team.

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fiestita View Post
    Well... It isn't my fault that I was born in a nation full of the best players in history. It's kinda logic I'd prefer Diego, Di Stefano, Labruna, Moreno, Messi, before George Best.
    CUNT

  18. #43
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    You'd expect a nation that produces "best players in history" to have more than two World Cup titles. Not to mention the fact they haven't reached WC semis since Italy '90.

  19. #44
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    Di Stéfano is a bit over the hill now. He could probably still cut it in Scotland though

  20. #45
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    PPFFTTT!

    You guys keep forgetting the Phenomenal Emile Heskey!

  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by churky View Post
    You'd expect a nation that produces "best players in history" to have more than two World Cup titles. Not to mention the fact they haven't reached WC semis since Italy '90.
    WCs are won by teams, a whole concept where tactic discipline, mutual understanding and morale are very important. You can't put in field eleven superstars without these, and expect to win against other well organized rivals. So your point is not valid.

    Anywas, Argentina didn't play deliberately two WCs (1950 and 1954) because Perón argued that we were the best and we had not to demonstrate an obvious fact. And we didn't play 1934 and 1938 either (at least not with a professional team in 1934, 1938 we were against to participate in a WC that was again organized in Europe) and guess what? Italy played both, with half of Argentina 1930's squad using their 2nd Nationality plus Giuseppe Meazza, and they became World Champions twice.

    Go for it, check it, four of them were Luis Monti, Raimundo Orsi, Enrique Guaita and Atilio Demaría and were starters.

    So there were 4 WCs not played by ARG on purpose that we could have won. Add the fact that in the 40s no WC was played and we had one of the best football teams in world history: "The Machine". None of those footballers had a chance to play a WC because of WWII.

  22. #47
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    Argentines are my new favourite people. Your level of hubris is remarkable.

  23. #48
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    If this, if that. You have 2 titles. Only one more than England. You suck.

  24. #49
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    "Best players in history" should equal good results. It's common sense, really, no matter how you twist it.

    And I'm loving how he conveniently ignored my comment about them not reaching semis since 1990.

  25. #50
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    Hm, he does make sense though, so I don't get the throwing stones at him thing.

    It's true that INDIVIDUALLY Argentine has got great players. Shouldn't really be doubt about that (especially their attacking options).

    The problem is the same as with Brazil in recent years, no TEAM, understanding, tactical concept is lacking (if you see Brazil go out and play, you notice that all players are roaming free).

    This leads to problems. Look at Germany, Spain, Italy, France etc. for comparison. Difference is enormous in terms of tactical understanding and such. Discipline is also much different, more rigid.

    Get both Argentine/Brazil proper coach for 2-4 years from Europe (Pep for example ). Let's see how they could transform .

    All of this is "if" based.

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