Well, being argentinian, I think this thread should be my responsability.
A new FIFA world record. At this pace, he will surely bypass Pele's total goals in a career record, unless brazucas find some kind of evidence of goals that Edson scored when playing baby football.
Still no Gerd Müller
They are totally different players. Also, I'm sure Gerd Müller would have scored more goals if playing with Xavi and Iniesta in his squad.
Indeed. It'll be interesting to see if he can keep up his game even at 30 years of age etc.
will never be "the greatest" (if there even is such a thing) until he wins the WC with Argentina though and I just don't see that happening.
Dani Alves is his main guy I think I read some time ago. Got double-digit assists for Messi by himself iirc.
He has not the ball control and THE SHOOTING QUALITY that Maradona had (and still has). He will never be considered before Diego, at least in Argentina, even if he manage to win hundreds of World Cups. Diego's crusades in Mexico and Italy were heroic tales.
Still, we are very very proud of having an striker like Messi. He's an example for youngsters, and he NEVER DIVES like Diego.
I remember watching an interview to Sócrates, in which he stated: "who's best? Einstein or von Braun? Debussy or Monet? Beethoven or Mozart?", "This kind of questions are useless, Maradona and Pelé are not comparable as they where different, in every aspect".
Resuming, even though Messi played more games than Müller, this achievement shows his greatness.
Fk me Pat you have issues!
another interesting aspect is his injury free career.
he has played every league game for 3 seasons or so
When we take top leagues into consideration I believe Spanish league is least demanding at the moment, would Messi cut it in Premier League in team of Napoli quality (Maradona), so let's say Swansea? Stoke? Southampton? Sunderland?
Sorry, but beating the record in the greatest team, consisting on World Class players, doesn't show your greatness in any aspect. I wonder how would Falcao do in FCB...
And Pat is right. Different eras when the records were made. Completely different players back then and now. Different balls, etc. You can't even compare two records.
Also can some Argie compare Maradona Argentine team vs Messi Argentine team?
Good point Chris, his durability is 1 of his finest assets.
And to me so is his humbleness, seems to be a very grounded individual to me.
No point comparing to others, just enjoy watching him while you can. He will undoubtedly go down as 1 of the best of all time in any sport .
2012 is not over yet, the best player in the world could still catch him....
Menotti's Argentina was an offensive team, that formed 4-3-3 with players like Kempes, Passarella, "ossie" Ardilles, Valdano and Gallego. He was accompanied with very good players. Top class in fact. Specially in defense (Pasarella was probably the best stopper in world in those days). That team had a though test in 2nd round wint Italy and Brazil. Referees were very europe sided in match with Italy. Diego took a lot of punishment, but no foul was awarded. Brazil just played better than us and defeated us 3 to 2 in an epic match. We were out, playing decently, but not greatly.
Then came Bilardo. Bilardo's team was a short, practical, 3-5-2 formed team. It's strength came with solid defending and probably the fastest def to fwd transition in football history. Ruggeri and Batista were the key in defense, Henrique and Olarticoechea the fast wingers, Maradona the engine and master of the counter-attack and of course, Valdano and Burruchaga were very good forwards. We won the WC playing practic but nice football, mainly due to Maradona's performance. Here, he started his heroic crusade against unrewarded punishment by every man that tried to stop him. He took a lot of punishment in his legs and still kept running.
Bilardo's team added Caniggia, the fastest footballer, to his practical team. This addition, in fact, was ideal for the tactic. This team could have won another WC if referees weren't humans. Diego resisted the highest watermark in punishment this time. Ninja kicks in his chest by africans, sliding two legged tackles to his ankle, paralytic kicks with the knee, and a stomp on his foot that broke one of his toenail. Look at this pic:
It was his ankle before ARG vs BRA match. Still we got to final match, were an unfair penalty kick gave the germans the WC.
Bilardo was sacked and Basile came. Basile liked attractive attacking football. His team played 4-3-1-2. The starting eleven were: Islas; Chamot, Ruggeri, Cáceres, Sensini; Simeone, Redondo, Basualdo; Maradona; Caniggia, Batistuta. Ortega and Balbo were also in that squad. Diego was banned after the match with Nigeria. Caniggia saw his 2nd yellow card vs Bulgaria. Then, without our best double played against Hagi's Romania, in an epic match that got us out.
And that was it.
2006 WC saw Pekerman's team forming a 4-3-1-2 squad with the following starting eleven: Abbondancieri; Sorin, Ayala, Heinze, Burdisso; Cambiasso or "lucho" Gonzalez, Mascherano, Maxi Rodriguez; Riquelme; Saviola, Crespo. Tevez was also a sub. Argentina played really well and was knocked out in an epic PK series with Germany. Messi wasn't very significant at all during the tournament. Just a great match against Mexico and nothing else.
Then came Basile again, buy his team didn't work during qualys. So Maradona was called. Maradona's team was offensive, and of course some kind innocent. We had great players like Mascherano, Veron and Agüero. Top class. But injuries decimated our defense. Jonas Gutierrez got injured in first match and Samuel got injured in the second match. So our defense lost quality, that is essential in a WC. Demichellis didn't play well either. So we filled nets with lots of goals until Germany got on our way. They played a hell of an outstanding match against us. We weren't horrible, but krauts were just too effective. Podolski totally overwhelmed Otamendi and Özil got us crazy. Schweinsteiger and Kedhira ate Messi also. Maybe without injuries, and Veron in field, we could have done better. Who knows...
And that's it for Messi.
Current Sabella's squad varies style of play. Sometimes it is an offensive 4-3-3. Sometimes it is a practical 3-5-2. we'll see wich one is chosen for WC.
Statistically, Messi played 66 games and Müller 60 in his respective years. 6 matches is a difference. Let's how does the goal/match media ends by January.
Last edited by Fiestita; 10-12-12 at 06:38 AM.
:facepalm:Sorry, but beating the record in the greatest team, consisting on World Class players, doesn't show your greatness in any aspect. I wonder how would Falcao do in FCB...
The greatest players these days play at the greatest team. Simples.
And Falcao is sick but he wouldn't score as many as Messi in Barca system.
@Fiestita: You do like complaining about the refs, don't you. Which is ironic since Maradona had his fair share of unfair play as well
Odds are 2 to 100 against referees.
And you can't deny the fact that most of referees are Europe sided in WCs played in Europe. It's kinda logic, the most of the national squads are from Europe. Maybe in these days is less, but 30 or 40 years ago it was remarkable. In 1966 english TV managed to trick a replay of a goal that got in for your country, getting it out magically with a "turn". And how do you explain the fact of the 7 south american players (4 uruguayan and 3 argentinian) sent off in semis? ARG vs ENG with german referee and URU vs GER with english referee. How fair... Wasn't it?
I'd just love to see messi play for a lesser team to see if he could really cut it and carry them by himself. Think Gerrard for pool. Messi has everything at Barcelona perfectly suited for him, Barcelona have the ball 70 percent of the time so of course he will get plenty of opportunities to score. Not taking anything away from him, but to be called the best ever when he's played with the best footballing team since he started his career could be a step too far
Messi is not a natural leader. He already demonstrated so in National Selection. He wouldn't be able to lead a team against great odds successfully. Still his technique and ability are very remarkable. I'd put him in my dream team, and in top ten players of history.
Patz isn't English, pleaee don't put that label on him!
don't know about top 10 in history yet, but the great thing about leo messi is that we may still have a decade left to watch of him.
I agree with the guys saying he has everything set up for him with the wonder team at Barcelona, would be interesting to see him move club.
Could he adapt to a new system and live up to the pressure and expectation from the new manager/fans created by the whopping price he would go for?
the true best player in the world already has.
Don't remember that, only remember the score
Then I will not waste any more words in arguing with you.