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Thread: WIBWOB Queries

  1. #51
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    Thanks!

    Yes, I was talking about the Wib/Wob version which is in the Downloads section.

    So what is the main difference between your non-Wib/Wob pack and the (weak) default set?

    Samsami

  2. #52
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    Can't be bothered to post ALL screenshots again because Chef thought it would be fine to remove User Tactic threads .

    But will post those I think were interesting:







    Some league testing (without human manager ):











    The main difference between mine tactics and AI defaults is, they were brought to be what we see teams play in real life. Got rid of outdated tactics now. The game should be harder, even though the tactics are not wib/wobbed. I struggled to get iodine to work vs them or any of my top tactics. Couldn't dominate the game anymore, but winning should be the reward, right?

  3. #53
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    I see. that looks different

    I am trying out my two sets first, using FC Utrecht (mediocre team) as the save file.
    Playing against the 2001 default tactics iodineCF won the title all five times I ran the test:
    87.2 points average; average league position 1.0, goals 89.0 - 30.5

    I just finished testing the first pack of tactics I compiled (the one with non of the killer tactics included) and already iodineCF struggles considerably:
    57.0 points average; average league position 5.8, goals 53.0 - 42.2

    Makes me wonder how idodine will cope with the harder pack!
    Last edited by samsami; 28-11-14 at 08:03 AM.

  4. #54
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    Here's a pack of tactics which I just compiled and that has fairly good AI tactics, so that it will be a reasonable challenge if you use a Wib/Wob tactic yourself. Of course, none of them are as good as iodineCF, though.

    https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...tactics_70.zip

    Simply download the pack and copy all the files to the Data folder to overwrite the default tactics.

    It's a realistic set of AI tactics for the following two reasons:

    (1) All tactics are actually what they say they are (424 is 424, 532 is 532, etc.) so they are just like the original set.
    (2) All tactics are about equally strong, making sure that results are realistic.

    This last point was important for me as I did not want any computer controlled team to be handicapped because they happened to pick one of the weaker tactics - or, alternatively, pick an exceptionally strong tactic and overachieve. So this keeps the results realistic.

    Samsami

    For your information, I ran a series of tests using FC Utrecht as the benchmark file.
    Normally FC Utrecht score an average of about 50 points per season.
    With the Wib/Wob tactics I offer here FC Utrecht score an average of just over 70 points per season.
    That's why I called this set AI_tactics_70

    However, the killer tactics (iodineCF, 442CJF, etc.) are even more effective.
    Using them FC Utrecht score well over 80 points per season.
    For a really big challenge I am working on a next set (AI_tactics_80) this holiday season.

    These scores are about the same as the ones in the Open Tactic League.
    The top tactics there also score well over 80 points (with De Graafschap).
    Last edited by samsami; 04-12-14 at 09:51 AM.

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  6. #55
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    And this is the ultimate challenge for human managers: AI_tactics_80

    https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...tactics_80.zip

    Samsami
    Last edited by samsami; 09-12-14 at 12:34 PM.

  7. #56
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    Using Tactics 70 now on the AI goodbye ten nils welcome real scores January on 1st season still third in prem with L.C.F.C down to a cracking signing young forward popping in goals to help me out

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  9. #57
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    Thanks for the feedback, Mark(lt31)!

    That matches my experience. Real scores.
    I am playing Tactics 70 as well and it's a decent challenge and no walkovers anymore.

    Tactics 80 is even a bit harder for those who may find Tactics 70 too easy.

    https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...tactics_70.zip

    https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...tactics_80.zip

    For the program to actually use either of these two packs (which need to be copied to the Data folder) you have to start a new game.
    Last edited by samsami; 09-12-14 at 12:35 PM.

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  11. #58
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    lol Good work there changes the whole structure of the game people want first team football or want to leave and everything in that matter signing of players more rejections than every player wanted to jump on your band wagon . Plus im using more of my squad rather than a win every game set eleven . Nice one

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  13. #59
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    Trying to win with non wibwob, not happening. What am I doing wrong?

    Hello guys. I've been trying to playing using non wibwobs and my own tactics. I keep loosing and getting sacked. Both in Swedish league, with GAIS and now in Portugese league with Vit Guimaraes. I've tried various formations, some taken from screenshots in the non wibwob thread but nothing seems to work. Main thing is conceding. How long does a formation need to settle with a team? Man Marking? Pressing? Any tips?

    Thanks

  14. #60
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    I think Dermotron pretty much covered it in an earlier thread:

    Quote Originally Posted by Dermotron View Post
    Go with the default 4-1-3-2.

    Mentality - Attacking
    Passing - Short (or Mixed is fine)
    Tackling - Hard
    Pressing - Yes
    Offside Trap - Yes

    Set everyone to Zonal Marking. Have the middle MC on Forward Runs, Run With Ball, Try Through Balls - turn off Long Shots
    Have the left SC with Forward Runs, Hold Up Ball
    Have the right SC with Forwards Runs, Run with Ball
    Left and right MC, Run with Ball, Long Shots, Forwards Runs
    DMC, Run With Ball (Turn off Long Shots if on)
    DL and DR, Run With Ball, Cross Ball
    DC's - Man-Marking, No Forward Runs, No Run with Ball.
    GK, Passing Mixed.

    Strong player with good Balance for the left SC and fast player with decent Dribbling for the right SC.

    Should be solid enough.

    http://www.champman0102.co.uk/showthread.php?t=1845

    Good luck!

  15. #61
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    When you play with non-wibwob you need to know how to recognise a good player, much more than you do when using a heavily wibwobbed system. Finding players who are performing well at your level is the key to it.

    Default 442 with a few player instructions is a solid tactic at any level. Stick with it for 6 months and see how you go. You'll need a winger who can cross and preferably dribble a bit, a forward who is tall and a couple of DCs with positioning and/or tackling.

    Then get scouting. If you are playing at a low level there are loads of great non-league players you can pick up for buttons, and get some loans in. If you are playing at a higher level look at who is performing well one league down from you.

    Finally, if you want to spoil it take a look at the good player threads, especially if you are playing 3.9.68, there are dozens of amazing free signings there, and they'd defo go to Vit Guimaraes

    A bit of patience usually pays off

  16. #62
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    Thanks guys. I'll have a play around with some of the suggestions. Do you think different countries need a different playing style?

  17. #63
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    YES! i think so. Italy is very hard without wibwob imo. but I came to this conclusion about 12 years ago so dont quote me on that.

  18. #64
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    Merk, you should contribute to the wib-wob thread after your Vauxhall Motors thread.

  19. #65
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    Got promoted with B1909 from the Danish 1st Div with the 4132 as mentioned earlier but now STUCK to the bottom of the Premier.

  20. #66
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    Whats the problem? Can't score? Every shot goes in? Try loans to solve issues if you don't have cash

  21. #67
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    To wibwob or not to wibwob that's the question

    Just curious.

    If I choose to not use the wib/wob feature and play using the standard AI tactics it's a decent (and fair) challenge, right?

    On the other hand, if I choose to use the wib/wob feature and play using the harder AI tactics (e.g. the AI_tactics_80 pack) it's also a decent (and fair) challenge, or isn't it?

    What is the main difference, though, between the two approaches?

  22. #68
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    depending on my experience;
    - original tactics in the game are too easy
    - tactic packs all are very difficult
    result : still there is no tactics pack around which balances the easiness/difficulty in a good way

  23. #69
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    I think if you create a solid enough non wibwobbed tactic and made sensible enough decisions, you can quite easily dominate against the standard tactics. Factors such as effective scouting, training regimes, squad depth etc become more important to effectively support your tactic.

    With the harder AI tactics pack, things become that much harder, and in order to succeed you almost certainly need to have a solid non-wibwobbed formation that will likely have a DMC and one SC. This is the real challenge! I think the challenge becomes more difficult in the top leagues as well, given the higher attributes for positioning, off the ball, etc etc.

    Going down the wibwob route (vs harder AI tactics) I think if you know what your doing with tactic-creating, you can still dominate fairly easily with a variety of formations.

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  25. #70
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    One thing I noticed is that most teams seem to prefer a 4-5-1 tactic in CM0102.
    So that seems to be the tactic most used.

    In the AI_Tactics_80 pack 451_default is replaced by 451 Freestyle (!) and 451_defensive and 451_Norway have been replaced by Norge so that makes them the best possible opponents I would say.

    Am I correct is saying that AIs use 451 the most?

  26. #71
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    No, you're not.

    On vanilla game, without any updates, I would say in 50+ years the most commonly used tactic vs my tactics was almost always 4132 . In 3.9.68 at the start, it all depends on managers, but in England 442 is probably most common tactic one would have to face. 41212 was used by Dortmund (and it was pain in the arse to deal with ).

    On Updates created here recently, yes, AI will probably use 451 most, but it really should be 4231 (as it's most used tactic irl).

    Oh and one more thing, CM is simplistic. if you apply KISS philosophy to it, you will come out victorious most of the time anyway. Doesn't matter what tactics AI would use, it would be user to win more often than not.

    Funny thing is, this carried on into FM too (the KISS thing). Sadly, for some, for some joyous moment, it got removed and now, you have to tweak tactics all the time. Classic tactics system was removed all together with FM14. TC replaced it for good. For me it was most appreciated change SI made to Football Manager franchise.

    FM15 is on yet another level.

    But yeah, it was about CM0102. Today is long day, so might reinstall CM and play around with it. Dethroning anything in OTL top 5 would be fun (doubt anyone will take fluke iodineCF off the top anytime soon though ).

  27. #72
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    Like I said elsewhere, iodineCF is at the top in the OTL but it is not the best tactic.
    It is the best tactic against weak opponents (like in the OTL where the weak default tactics are used) but when you have installed my AI_Tactics_80 pack and you run benchmark test, iodineCF is disappointing.

    Here are the results of a test I did, 10 seasons holiday mode, with FC Utrecht against the AI_Tactics_80 pack:

    iodineCF (#1)......................69.9
    451 Freestyle (#2)...............71.0
    442CJF (#5)........................66.8
    Making plans for Nigel (#6)...65.5
    4411 Ailton (Vik mod) (#9)....77.0 (!)
    4-3-3 Forever (#19).............60.0
    Norge (#22)....................... 71.1
    4132CF (#32)..................... 66.1
    424CF (#49)....................... 63.6
    bum bum cyk (#59).............51.1
    22321tetha.2 (#61)..............53.5

  28. #73
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    You pitted iodineCF vs other user tactics based on original iodine?

    Because your tactic pack is, from what I understood, made out of tactics from OTL. Based on how they performed you tried to find ones which would give you on avg ~80 points using Utrecht or something.

    Of course vs user based tactics iodine and its variants won't work. Simple as that. Was proven many times in our Tactics League. You need different approach vs user tactics, but when you know, 90% of them are iodine based, finding weakness in it (one is right here: high defensive line, too much congestion in last quarter of wib/wob screens, etc.) it can be destroyed like any other tactic.

    Btw vs wib/wob tactics, non wib/wob can do wonders .

  29. #74
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    Yes, my AI_Tactics_80 pack consists of tactics from OTL that scored at least an average of 80 points there.
    As you know iodineCF had the highest score (87.5) in the OTL.

    So I let FC Utrecht play against the AI_Tactics_80 pack (which you say are iodine variants) using iodineCF and others from the OTL and iodineCF did not do all that well. 4411 Ailton (Vik mod) did the best.

    But you can do wonders against the AI_Tactics_80 pack without using a wib/wob tactic? Really?

  30. #75
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    Best Non WibWob Tactic

    Just a quick qiestion for the master tacticians on here...

    What is the best, most proven tactic that is non-wibwob to play with using a team full of good/very good players?

    Are there a few which are sure to win.you titles as long as your players are better than your opposition?

    Reason I ask is while I'm doing pretty good with my own 3-5-2 (no wing backs), my fellow cm competitors appear to be struggling badly despite having a good grasp of football tactics and very strong squads (better or equal to my own).

    (Thanks for the responses).
    Last edited by Foggy; 01-01-15 at 08:35 AM.

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