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Thread: Open Tactic League (new thread)

  1. #51
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    I tested it with the benchmark save file (just twice) and it scored 83 and 85 points with De Graafschap so that is good but not too impressive. For instance it's less than 4423CJF.
    Perhaps because the De Graafschap players do not have high passing scores.
    In the forum thread it says it is not meant for holiday mode.

  2. #52
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    is there a link to faz's the v tactic?

  3. #53
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    How do you try out these e.g. the 1-0-4-3-1-2 (mixed normal hard offside) with forward arrows on the DML and DMR? used in my SOS story - This one, unfortunately, requires the DMCs to be told who to mark each match as they by default mark the opponent's MCs/ AMCs rather than FCs.

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by ^Jack^ View Post
    is there a link to faz's the v tactic?
    Here it is

    Seriously considering tactic packs on the Google Drive.

  5. #55
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    Planning a christmas/new year update. Thanks to bahamontes, my Sketches of Spain tactic got tested

    I'm looking at the following new tactics:
    5-3-2 ZM-Attacking by zionmaster
    SamsamiCF by Samsami
    iodineDiamond by Samsami
    433 Evolution by Desp
    I Need Passing by giopos (as suggested by AtomicAnt)

    I'll also be testing the following classic tactic from Airwick's list:
    Tao_4-1-2-1-2.tct

    And from my own personal classic tactic archive, I'll be testing the following:
    PBCatenaccio0102 by Paul Buxton

    Anymore?

  6. #56
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    Might submit something today/tomorrow myself.

  7. #57
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    Would be cool if anyone has the actual Marc Vaughan 4132 if that could be tested.

    I did make a new tac for that tac challenge but seems to have gone quiet on that front and you have enough tacs to test.

    Have a good Crimbo Faz.





  8. #58
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    this is my tactic (4123) https://www.sendspace.com/file/6pxyc9
    can you test it?
    won everything but never tried in holiday mode

  9. #59
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    Cam, throw it up. It's no problem.

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by faz44 View Post
    Cam, throw it up. It's no problem.
    Ok then, thanks Faz.

    I don't expect much from it - https://www.sendspace.com/file/czlf5t





  11. #61
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    Merry Christmas OTLers, next update before 31st December, promise.

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  13. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by faz44 View Post
    Here it is

    Seriously considering tactic packs on the Google Drive.
    thank you.

  14. #63
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    Hello @ CamF I have never seen your 424 Tactic. was it released or does it have another name?

  15. #64
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    UPDATE 3 PLUS STATE OF THE LEAGUE ADDRESS: 31/12/2014

    Ten tactics have been tested/retested since the last update. This is the list of their results:



    When I finished testing, this update felt slightly anticlimactic. "Some amazing stuff in there," I thought. "But with ViK breaking the top 10 last time, is it quite so special this time around?" However, I came to write this update and folks, it is special. The best of this bunch of tactics are fantastic, even record-breaking.

    We have another new entry into the top 10. giopos' I Need Passing knocks last time's new entry, 4411 Ailton (ViK mod), down a place to take 9th. I've performed hundreds of seasons of testing for the Open Tactic League down the years and I've never seen anything quite as good as the 95 point, +73 GD season that this tactic opened with. Sadly, while the tactic seemed excellent at running up the score - it is the new leader when it comes to average goal difference - it lost some tight games along the way, which across ten seasons put paid to its title challenge. However, this tactic is capable of truly spectacular things and belongs in the top 10, even if its creator didn't think it would do well in holiday testing. Congrats giopos, another new face in the top 10.

    Just 0.6 of a point behind it was Samsami's iodineDiamond. As far as I'm aware, this is a new take on the iodine concept. Maybe it didn't set the world alight on the Goal Difference front but its big strength proved its consistency. Absolutely metronomic, only one sub-80 season and with more total wins than 5 of the 11 tactics above it in the league. Another new face, this time in at 12th.

    Further down, Desp's 433 Evolution proved a much better submission than his last one. This tactic couldn't stop scoring and set a new high for goal scoring (91.3 average) but it couldn't turn that into enough wins to break the very top. Keeping them out is more important than scoring and the balance was just a little off. However, 80+ is still very impressive.

    Samsami's second submission SamsamiCF had a jensenv3 look about it but didn't score enough to really put it up with the big boys and finished on 78.4. Cam F's Henry the Hoover has an interesting overview and had some excellent results but its wild inconsistency, especially in goalscoring, dragged it down into the mid-100s. I also think Numatic would like to point out that they, not Hoover, manufacture Henry and his gormless smile.

    zionmaster genuinely surprised me when he submitted 5-3-2 ZM-Attacking, a genuine 5-3-2. If we know anything about an odd number of defenders on CM, it's that it is leakier than an even number. However, this is only the third back five tactic in the league and 77.4 points is a decent haul.

    My non wib-wob tactic Sketches of Spain v0.2 performed reasonably considering it's an NWW, putting it 6th in the NWW league, though that's a startlingly-low 393rd in the fuller league. I might be onto something with the instructions though I think I need a narrower shape across midfield.

    On the retesting front, it seems I had one of the two under another name. Welcome back WMCF, with a slightly different name. CM 01-02 isn't fond of old school tactics like the WM and the Pyramid so it did amazingly well to pull down 73 points.

    Finally, one the classic tactic front, one from Airwick's list and one from my own personal archive. From my own archive, I pulled out the unlauded PBCatenaccio0102. Paul Buxton was probably best known for his PB DDL and PB3 tactics, the latter of which was featured in the short-lived Championship Manager magazine. This tactic was a bit of horsing around on the Dugout forum and was barely noticed, let alone heralded. It features a simplistic view of the Catenaccio. Considering it's 11 years old, a throwaway tactic and features a sweeper, it does remarkably well. However, it's no PB6, let alone a more celebrated entry of Buxton's back catalogue. From Airwick's list, I tested Tao_4-1-2-1-2. It's overview is very similar to the default tactic of the same shape, with diagonal arrows on the central midfielders. Like almost all of the tactics in the bottom 50, it simply doesn't score enough to be a threat to anybody. By way of comparison, it's marginally better than the default 3-4-3.

    ----

    Given it is the end of the calendar year, I thought I'd talk about the state of the league at the end of 2014. This has been a strange year, truth be told. When I foolishly decided to take the league on, it was all but dead. Barely a handful of tactics tested in months, no direction or leadership, no update to the main spreadsheet in a year. When you consider just the results collated or tested from the old thread to the new one, that's 29 extra tactics. Furthermore, there have 20 new tactics tested since then, pushing that number to one shy of 50. With 22 retests, that's 710 seasons in total that weren't there a few months back.

    And the people have responded. We seem to have discovered a whole new generation of tactical mad scientists, enthused by probably our only historical monument, some of whom have created tactics that are in the upper echelons. Unfortunately, it seems as though there is no new iodine. Despite some great seasons, nobody has knocked Cam off his perch. However, I'm now confident people will keep trying in a way I wasn't back in October.

    Of course, things have to change. I've questioned the very nature of the league and its relevance to the current updates or with people making harder tactics patches. As I said before, this is our historical monument. It's been going for a long time and it will continue. I will continue Airwick's quest to test literally anything but it's not just me, it needs to be all of us.

    On 12th January, I start a new job. The hours will be long and my testing time will be much more limited. So if you see a tactic on the thread, set aside 30 minutes to an hour - you can do it in the background - and test a tactic. If you have one of the tactics on the untested tactics list or a forgotten tactic from yesteryear that has never been put up against the benchmark, give it a go and stick the results on the thread.

    The league hasn't been this strong for some time. It belongs to all of us and we collectively have to keep it strong.

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  17. #65
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    Thanks an awful lot! This is really great to have (the spreadsheet I mean).

    You say: "I've questioned the very nature of the league and its relevance to the current updates or with people making harder tactics patches"

    Of course the league only indicates how effective the tactics are when the AI uses the default tactics.
    But that is still good to know, isn't it?
    So will you still update the spreadsheet when people do testing and post the results?

    Also, is it possible to make a zip-file with all of the tactics available for us to download?
    Or at least the best 150 or so?

    I know there's Airwick's packs but it's hard to find what you're searching for and it's not all there or the links are broken.

  18. #66
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    Hello sir, all of the spreadsheets since I took over are on my Mediafire account and reasonably well-downloaded surprisingly.

    I will continue to test and administer the league but I need help. On my PC, even being disciplined (set up the tactic, put into holiday mode, set the timer, come back when the timer goes off), it takes me one hour per tactic. So 10 tactics is 10 hours work over the course of a few days. I might be doing other things whole the tactic tests in the background but I'm not sure I'll have the time to even do those other things thus less tactic testing.

    As for the nature of the league, personally I've found myself using "lesser" tactics in my own games because they use 4-3-3 and 4-5-1 so much more in the new updates. If I'm using my iodine tactics, I go for the V much more than Genius Steals now because the AMC or the three-man central midfields just overrun my guys. However, it's best to keep this going because it's based on the way the game and database was originally designed.

    I have 541 tactics. One was considered private and so it has been taken out but this is the other 540. The remaining ones are on the first post and there are only three in the top 100 that aren't there.

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  20. #67
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    This is my new 5-3-2 tactic for 2015 Hope faz44 can test it for me! Many thanks to you!

    http://upfile.vn/_aXmNVjmIsIQ/5-3-2-...-2015-tct.html



    Last edited by zionmaster; 25-03-15 at 04:03 AM.

  21. #68
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    And this is my 4-2-3-1 tactic. Hope that faz44 can test it a.s.a.p

    Thank you very much!

    http://upfile.vn/ydGQM~ZmZVjm/4-2-3-...-2015-tct.html


  22. #69
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    Is it possible that Making plans for Nigel (#6 in the OTL) is overrated?
    My experience with it is that it performs more like a 75-78 rated tactic rather than 86.1

    If you look at the goals for (75.7) and the goals against (22.3) you can see that the number of points (86.1) seems inflated.
    If you look at the goal balance (53.4) that would seem to confirm it. No tactic in the top twenty has such a low balance.

    Of course you cannot retest all tactics, but I think it might be worth doing it for this one, or am I mistaken?

    At least when I tested it with my FC Utrecht benchmark file it scored much lower than the other top 20 tactics.

  23. #70
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    Not really. Airwick chose De Graaf as it had a good squad size with most positions covered with players able to step in if people got injured.

    Tapani doesn't believe in testing only 10 times a tactic, preferring testing a tac 100-1000s of times.

    We don't have time to do that and the handover of ownership of OTL over the last few years show that.

    Testing one tac ten times is a chore (imagine having 15-20 other tacs to test ), takes time most of us don't have or be arsed to do, so to re-test tacs cos people don't agree would make the whole point of the OTL redundant.

    IodineCF for example, plenty of folk disagree with it's loft perch and others have tested it and it didn't do as well but that's just it, it's a snapshot.





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  25. #71
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    According to my own testing, the best tactic I've ever produced is Talent Borrows, which had RIDICULOUS scores (87.9 avg IIRC). When I submitted it, it didn't perform as well as tactics I thought were much worse. If there was an automated way of testing and recording results, I would test everything I have 100 more times but I don't have that ability. There's an idea though. If somebody could script it somehow, I'd love to see it.

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  27. #72
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    Hello!

    You could test please?

    is this here

    https://www.sendspace.com/file/iyrpxw
    Last edited by Desp; 08-01-15 at 12:48 AM.

  28. #73
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    Going to be doing a new update soon. Have three tactics that wormed their way into my tactic pack without actually being tested and the three new ones here. Anything else?

  29. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by faz44 View Post
    If there was an automated way of testing and recording results, I would test everything I have 100 more times but I don't have that ability. There's an idea though. If somebody could script it somehow, I'd love to see it.
    There is. Done that for years. Even posted it here.
    http://www.champman0102.co.uk/showth...387#post179387

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  31. #75
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    Would it work for the OTL benchmark too? I ask because this was specifically for your tactic testing benchmark and I recall trying it for something else and it didn't work.

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