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Thread: Financial Changes

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fodster View Post
    But you know that anyway and are only challenging as I posted that comment - you have been quiet for months and months
    That was a bonus indeed

    No, really, how come we still introduce new tools to the game if we all think this is a beautiful, simple and quick 14 year old game? Haven't we accepted it like it is?
    Deep down I don't think we have. I love the game like it is but if a new feature which benefits the game becames available, it would make love the game even more.
    I don't really need to play FM to seek novelty because since the CM was released that have been a serious amount of brand new features.

    If suddenly the source code were available to us, we would implement a variety of changes into the game, wouldn't we? Let's face it...
    Last edited by LR; 30-04-14 at 02:18 PM.

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  3. #52
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    No... Not sponsorship... No .., or tax on wages....

    Llllllllorenzo is using a patch so his arguments are flawed. The team can pretty much get spot on with every release the spending and league placing of every nation in the FIRST season. After that it's pot luck... If someone has a fluke season then so be it. (Liverpool) If someone spends 10 mill on a player so be it. (Southampton)

    Look at what this guy is asking. It's impossible to sort by the update team and/or even a patch. Let's be honest and upfront and as much as people like llllorenzo come along demanding new things. In reality he will be gone next week and his dreams will all be forgotten ... All we will be wondering is if anyone can change the CL structure.... Not adding tax to players fucking wages

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  5. #53
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    If someone could change the CL and Europa League structure, I'd pay serious money for that patch. I think we all would. Everything else is just superficial nonsense.

    I like FM for its depth, but every once in a while I come back to CM because I grow tired of huge amounts of useless cosmetic features they keep adding every year.

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  7. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fodster View Post
    No... Not sponsorship... No .., or tax on wages....

    Llllllllorenzo is using a patch so his arguments are flawed. The team can pretty much get spot on with every release the spending and league placing of every nation in the FIRST season. After that it's pot luck... If someone has a fluke season then so be it. (Liverpool) If someone spends 10 mill on a player so be it. (Southampton)

    Look at what this guy is asking. It's impossible to sort by the update team and/or even a patch. Let's be honest and upfront and as much as people like llllorenzo come along demanding new things. In reality he will be gone next week and his dreams will all be forgotten ... All we will be wondering is if anyone can change the CL structure.... Not adding tax to players fucking wages
    True that

    What made me reply in this thread was the fact that once or twice i said to myself how easy is to make money in this game.
    If only we could increase the club's expenditure according to the club's rep, stadia, league rep, whatever... it would be more challenging.

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  9. #55
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    Give high wages vs low gate receipts. Or just low gate receipts.

    It's artificial of course but from purely a challenge POV it can be tough. Capping max attendance at 500 and starting in Portugal 2B, Italy C2, Spain 2B or English Conference be a tough challenge especially if the ground size ~ 10k

  10. #56
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    Instead to set attendance at 500, you should put lower money for ticket season that's why when we start a new season we receive a lot of money from stadium (In europe,many club have their own stadium,in Italy only Juventus got it so the other clubs have big costs to pay stadium at local city and they don't have receipts by shop which are in a club stadium)

    I'm playing now with Bari in serie B, I'm in second season now and I have 6,5mln euro for transfermarket even if I had only 10k medium attendance...It means that in serie B one season ticket costs about 300 ???

  11. #57
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    Yeh derm that's what you should do

  12. #58
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    Financial Changes

    I really liked the 'currency fix' that was added to "2.19.2" [i think it was that patch??]

    Any chance this could be added to THIS ONE, or at least, can you make it an option....

    I really like the more realistic 'Money Values' on players and the wages.... I kind of got used to it.....


    I know i can switch to " Aus $ " - but its not the same really

    I know you're a busy dude and I don't wish to sound ungrateful but, If its not too much bother, could you add this to the patch for me please?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pasquale View Post
    Tapani you can insert in the K-League relegation?
    What should be changed?
    How is it now, and exactly how should it be?

    Often people say "fix league X". I have no idea how the league is in the game, or in real life. So for requests like this -- be specific of all the changes needed!

    Quote Originally Posted by edcrowley100 View Post
    I really liked the 'currency fix' that was added to "2.19.2" [i think it was that patch??]

    Any chance this could be added to THIS ONE, or at least, can you make it an option....

    I really like the more realistic 'Money Values' on players and the wages.... I kind of got used to it.....


    I know i can switch to " Aus $ " - but its not the same really

    I know you're a busy dude and I don't wish to sound ungrateful but, If its not too much bother, could you add this to the patch for me please?
    Spent last night looking at finances, incidentally. (That is where I went when you(?) wrote in the chat yesterday that I disappeared)

    Instead of just faking the numbers shown, I was hoping to do a "real" fix -- that players are really evaluated as worth more, they request higher salaries etc.

    So my question to you all is: How has the financial aspect changed since 2001?

    I understand that on top level, prices has gone up -- doubled if not more. (Assuming that applies to both salaries and transfer sums)
    How about medium level (Think English League One/Two (old D2/D3))?
    How about low level (Conference North)?

    Are salaries in the game too low? Or is it even tougher to make money on that level than before?

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  15. #60
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    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by Tapani View Post
    What should be changed?
    How is it now, and exactly how should it be?

    Often people say "fix league X". I have no idea how the league is in the game, or in real life. So for requests like this -- be specific of all the changes needed!



    Spent last night looking at finances, incidentally. (That is where I went when you(?) wrote in the chat yesterday that I disappeared)

    Instead of just faking the numbers shown, I was hoping to do a "real" fix -- that players are really evaluated as worth more, they request higher salaries etc.

    So my question to you all is: How has the financial aspect changed since 2001?

    I understand that on top level, prices has gone up -- doubled if not more. (Assuming that applies to both salaries and transfer sums)
    How about medium level (Think English League One/Two (old D2/D3))?
    How about low level (Conference North)?

    Are salaries in the game too low? Or is it even tougher to make money on that level than before?
    Good question dude.....


    I'd say the highest salary in the:
    Championship would be 30,000 - 45,000


    League 1 would be 10,000 - 15,000 (IRL)


    League 2 would be 5,000 - 7,000


    Conference would be 1,000 - 3,000


    Conference North would be 500 - 1,000



    That's just a guess, but I think that would make sense in 'CM0102' world


    Plus, I wouldn't have a clue if this was possible, my guess would be "No" BUT if there was some way to make the game reflect how much more expensive 'Young English/British Talent' is compared to 'Young Foreign Talent'

    Maybe one way of doing that is to tinker around with reputations of Players AND Clubs, or change how the Club evaluates its younger players....

    I have no idea..... I'm not a stickler for EVERYTHING having to reflect real life BUT I am sick of seeing crap players being the most valued in the game....



    I mean, I'm not demanding complete reflection of reality but THIS....???

    Spoiler!


    Spoiler!


    Spoiler!



    HE, IS THE MOST EXPENSIVE STRIKER IN THE WORLD!!!!?

    THIS, IS JUST RIDICULOUS!!!!


    It's this kinda stuff that pisses me off about this game!

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  17. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pasquale View Post
    The Korean league in the game there are relegated, while in reality there is. You can place in the league relegated Korean?
    Be specific. How many teams to be relegated? From which division, to where?

    Quote Originally Posted by edcrowley100
    I'd say the highest salary in the:
    Championship would be 30,000 - 45,000


    League 1 would be 10,000 - 15,000 (IRL)


    League 2 would be 5,000 - 7,000


    Conference would be 1,000 - 3,000


    Conference North would be 500 - 1,000
    Assuming p/w?

    Quote Originally Posted by edcrowley100
    HE, IS THE MOST EXPENSIVE STRIKER IN THE WORLD!!!!?
    Agree there. As a human manager, I'd say he should be worth ... some 4-6M GBP. Give or take some. Nowhere above 10.

    I think you are going to like what I am doing right now :-)
    (Will post a few screens later... )
    Last edited by Tapani; 18-02-15 at 10:07 AM.

  18. #62
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    I think you will never get a 100% accurate 'once change fixes all' financial change (even 75% would be pretty spectacular). It would need to be a general change plus changes in each individual league imo i.e. tv money, prize money and season ticket money. I think wages would need to be looked at after that. Even if a player should get say 150k to match his real life wage, without the prize, tv and ticket money changes a club may still not be able to afford that change. I've not seen huge sponsorship and merchandising values for any club either, this is where most clubs generate their cash irl.

    The general blanket increase is 0102 prices and values are 45% of todays values or 2.2 times higher. It possibly needs recalculating to 40% or 2.5

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  20. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tapani View Post
    Assuming p/w?
    Yes


    Quote Originally Posted by Tapani View Post
    Agree there. As a human manager, I'd say he should be worth ... some 4-6M GBP. Give or take some. Nowhere above 10.

    I think you are going to like what I am doing right now :-)
    (Will post a few screens later... )
    I think you just gave me a boner!

  21. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by edcrowley100 View Post
    Good question dude.....


    I'd say the highest salary in the:
    Championship would be 30,000 - 45,000


    League 1 would be 10,000 - 15,000 (IRL)


    League 2 would be 5,000 - 7,000


    Conference would be 1,000 - 3,000


    Conference North would be 500 - 1,000




    It's this kinda stuff that pisses me off about this game!
    I think these are set a little high in my opinion.

    I don't think there will be many (if any) players in the championship on 45k a week. I think 20k is more realistic.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/foo...lion-year.html

    This link show average salary for all the top leagues.

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  23. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mick View Post
    I think these are set a little high in my opinion.

    I don't think there will be many (if any) players in the championship on 45k a week. I think 20k is more realistic.


    You misunderstand

    I WASN'T GIVING THE AVERAGE WAGE P/W....

    I was giving what the MAXIMUM WAGE WOULD BE...

    Quote Originally Posted by edcrowley100 View Post


    I'd say the highest salary.....
    There may be between 5-10 players in the Championship on 40,000 p/w, I don't know, but i'd say no one is on anything higher than 45,000 - 50,000...

    I was just giving my opinion on what the limit would be for these divisions

    I mean, the players from clubs RELEGATED from the Premier League, will be on high wages, no?
    Last edited by eddieC; 18-02-15 at 11:18 AM.

  24. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tapani View Post
    How has the financial aspect changed since 2001?
    I have seen a ~2.5 multiplier mentioned for player values so could we increase ticket revenue by only 1.65?

    Average premier league ticket price in 2001 26 and in 2014 was 42.83 (http://www.premierleague.com/content...ey-2001-02.pdf). An increase of 1.65

    This might actually make it challenging to control finances otherwise inflating monetary values will not do anything to the gameplay.

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  26. #67
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    about money i think we need to know how it currently works in the game first.

    tapani, are you able to find in the exe how the game sets a value of a players and how much he earns from a club?

    once we know that, we (tapani actually) can try to modify it in a better way.

    in real football a player's value is based on many variabiles, basically it should be the price his club asks for if they sell him, and this is based on many different things.

    1. in which division the player is playing - if he plays in english prem he is more explensive than if he plays in 3rd division (it can be related to the division rep).

    2. for which club he's playing - if he plays for man utd he is more expensive than if he plays for qpr (it can be related to the club rep).

    3. his current performances (it can be related to avg ratings + goals + assists).

    4. his role - a golkeeper will never cost as much as a striker.

    5. his age - a young one is much more expensive.

    6. his contract lenght - if his contract is expiring the following season his values falls down.

    7. his caps

    8. his story - if often injured, banned, sent off, etc. the price is lower.

    9. his status inside the club - if the club wants to sell him his value is lower (maybe it can be related to the status, i.e. if you set him on the transfers list, buyers will offer less), same if he wants to be sold.

    10. how many offers he's having - if lots of clubs are interested his club will want more.


    the same is for the wage, but that should be related more to the club (#1 &#2 on my list).

    so it should be something like this:

    division reputation * club reputation * avg ratings * goals * assists/2 (or /3, 4/, etc because assists are less important) * role * 1/age (because lower age is better) * contract length * caps * 1/sum of days out for bans and injuries * status in club * number of offers * a constant number

    so for a player like rooney (some numbers are random) it should be:

    final value = 20 * 19 * 7.5 * 15 * 10/2 * 0.5 * 1/29 * 0.4 * 1.99 * 1/50 * 0.5 * 0.1 * c = 0.289 * c

    while for a player like scott harrison of hartlepool it should be:

    final value = 6 * 5 * 7.5 * 15* 10/2 * 0.3 * 1/21 * 0.2 * 1 * 1/50 * 0.5 * 0.1 * c = 0.004 * c

    so if ''c'' is 200 million rooney is worth 58 millions and harrison 800k (in real life rooney is 45m and harrison 250k)

    of course mine is just a rough calculation, it should be done with likely numbers, and also the wage calculation can be done this way.

    would it be possible?

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  28. #68
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    Yeah, what he said....

  29. #69
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    Maybe we should "fork" this discussion about finances to a separate thread?

    Is it possible to move posts from one thread to another?

    Milo, I have found the code for both player evaluation and where the players determine their salary demands. Tweaking parameters atm.
    In your evaluation, it does not matter how good the player really is? (see eds complaint earlier)

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  31. #70
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    Not the most inspiring title but all financial related posts are in here now

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  33. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tapani View Post
    Maybe we should "fork" this discussion about finances to a separate thread?

    Is it possible to move posts from one thread to another?

    Milo, I have found the code for both player evaluation and where the players determine their salary demands. Tweaking parameters atm.
    In your evaluation, it does not matter how good the player really is? (see eds complaint earlier)
    just because you don't have a value (CA & PA) for a player in real life, of course it can be used in the game though...

    by the way, tapani, can you also tell the clubs to pay taxes on wages, this would make it much more realistic, of course each country has its own taxation system but maybe an average value for all the db could be fine anyway

  34. #72
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    Taxes ... seeing that as the players responsibility to pay their own taxes. (Afaik, France has it that way -- in the end of the year govt sees how much they spent, and sets the tax rate appropriately, and everyone has to pay their taxes themselves instead of having them deducted by the employer)

    To get this back on track:
    - I am currently tweaking evaluation of players, and salaries. It appears I have introduced some instability - getting a crash per 10 years of holidaying :-/
    - How much are the top players worth nowadays? (as most of you know, I do not follow football, I have no idea). Guessing on 50-80M GBP?
    - How much do the top players make? Is 150k p/w outrageous? Or in realistic range?

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  36. #73
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    Thanks Derm for splitting out these posts :-)

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  38. #74
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    These are transfermarket market values for players http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/spiel.../marktwertetop. Change to .com for € values

    Wages are a tough one as if you give say Rooney his 300k per week, players of a similar level will want the same. At a club like Madrid or Barcelona that could be 5-8 players at a club on 300k per week. That would need some serious changes to sponsorship deals and merchandising incomes for each club as I dont think prize and tv money changes would compensate. Unless of course its tied to something like Current or World Reps perhaps

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  40. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Z View Post
    I have seen a ~2.5 multiplier mentioned for player values so could we increase ticket revenue by only 1.65?

    Average premier league ticket price in 2001 26 and in 2014 was 42.83 (http://www.premierleague.com/content...ey-2001-02.pdf). An increase of 1.65

    This might actually make it challenging to control finances otherwise inflating monetary values will not do anything to the gameplay.
    That is part of my aim, making the finances just slightly more challenging.
    Maybe "inflate" the currency x1.5 and use my current increases in values/wages to increase costs an additional 1.5 times (maybe even 2x for top flight)

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