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Thread: Win Everything With Anyone - A Quick Guide - by churky

  1. #26
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    With the ball screen
    Place your players on the edges of each box, avoid having more than one player in the middle.
    could anybody explain what this part means?

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    Too many players in the middle

    Players on the edge of the wib box

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenny Dalglish's Smile View Post
    Too many players in the middle

    Players on the edge of the wib box
    get n the DTL area else u will be sacked

  4. #29
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    LOL, i have never wob/wob(ed)!

    I won 12 CL in a row once with 3-5-2 (w/ DMC & AMC) & 3-4-3 in certain games... with Lyon. Good players do the work for me, there's no big secrets. did several CL winning careers doing LLM in Premier League (all english teams are potentially good for this)

    If defenders are better than opposition strikers & my strikers better than opposition defenses, that should do it. Obviously all other positions the better the stats/ratings the better. one keeps building the team constantly.

    AMC can be a great position (loads of goals & assists but it can be really shit too... don't really understand that one)
    goalkeepers I rate them in 3 categories: 1. suck loads of goals; 2. average a goal per game; 3. less than a goal per game.... seriously good stats is good & thats what i search for but they don't really seem to do anything (ex, a great goalkeeper can have 11/12/13 on handling, or have no reflexes at all) i filter them by tackling LOL

    i find team chemistry is better than anything else (players liking each other, liking their tactic, liking their manager) but i just found out you can win every trophy on the menu with a lot of problems: players wanting to leave, not enjoying the atmosphere in the team, dissing the manager in public, etc

    I agree that simplicity is the key. sticking with the same ideas (tactic, starting XI, players roles in the team, not buying or selling during the season) works best!

    Apart from that, having the best possible players is the real secret.

  5. #30
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    I was about to comment on this...

    Quote Originally Posted by Pokahontas View Post
    i find team chemistry is better than anything else (players liking each other, liking their tactic, liking their manager)
    ...but then realised you saw the error in your thinking.
    Quote Originally Posted by Pokahontas View Post
    but i just found out you can win every trophy on the menu with a lot of problems: players wanting to leave, not enjoying the atmosphere in the team, dissing the manager in public, etc
    Player morale and team atmosphere mean fuck all in CM0102. I've had players with very poor morale, hating me and and a few of their team-mates, wanting to leave club, asking to be transfer listed on a weekly basis...and still banging goals like nothing is happening. Morale is one thing that just doesn't work properly in CM0102. Or maybe it does, if they didn't want it to be influential in the first place, who knows.

    Otherwise, I agree with your post. Wibwobbing your tactic is not obligatory, but having players with a right set of attributes is. The "secret" is looking for key attributes in relation to different positions, there's no need for expensive all-rounders.

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by churky View Post
    Player morale and team atmosphere mean fuck all in CM0102.
    not so sure about that... i was playing a w/ a friend
    and had this 19 yo italian AC..
    he said 'I don't see whats good about that guy and can't believe he actually scores goals and has good ratings...'
    long story short
    i told him, just notice, if his morale is 'v. good' or 'superb' he will score 2 or 3 & rating will be 9 or 10... and it happened, every time, game after game. when his morale was lower along came the string of 6's & 7's ratings & no goals. Then I gave him a contract just to prove the point -> morale went Superb -> ratings tru the roof & goal after goal. NOW this is far from an exhaustive research, but i think i can safely say it must have some impact (or maybe some players are influenced by it to different degrees at least)
    I think team morale has a lot to do when things go bad tho

    but if things go good even if morale isn't great, sure there could be other factors... like team construction/quality being Overkill (as it often is), like quality players on the bench itching to put out great performances, like quality staff maxing out players attributes, etc etc

    I am not saying the game is perfect, far from it... those tapani tactics - with every player running with ball & keeping the ball - they're just outright ludicrous, but they work even if you put 11 mickey mice on the field

    It is still a great game tho ........ & way waaaaaaay better than cm 4 or some of the FM's (I haven't played in a while, since 2008 & 2009)

    when i was a beginner, it did annoy the hell outta me just not understanding where things were going wrong

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    By the way, there's one position that all-rounders do great for me, a DMC with a small farrow, in my wib-wobbed 3-4-3, so I guess there's a place for them too sometimes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pokahontas View Post
    NOW this is far from an exhaustive research, but i think i can safely say it must have some impact (or maybe some players are influenced by it to different degrees at least)
    You're right. I never let anyone with low or v low morale start a game. Its one of the most important factors when i pick my squad, espec for big games like finals. You'll be three nil down after 30min if you start with a low morale goalkeeper.

    The mystery position for me is DC. You can spend 15mill on a DC w great stats and he'll suck. Another DC with same stats can play like a god. Ive found that an avg of at least 3 tackles/game is the key factor to how well they play. But you'll rarely know how good they are until you buy them as foreign leagues dont show avg tackles/game.

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  10. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by AtomicAnt View Post
    You're right. I never let anyone with low or v low morale start a game. Its one of the most important factors when i pick my squad, espec for big games like finals. You'll be three nil down after 30min if you start with a low morale goalkeeper.
    Not really true from my experience. Once I was deliberately pissing off my players over the course of a season just to see if it makes any difference. It didn't.

  11. #35
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    Maybe low determination players' morale effect them more and vice versa

  12. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by AtomicAnt View Post
    espec for big games like finals.
    Thanks atomic.
    i've noticed this as well. I find a Final is more likely to be won after the league is solved with a win (and all team morale gets great after this). But again, there's no research to back this, just hours/weeks/months of experience playing the game.

    I do agree with churky that the game has a lot of randomness, and people that delved into the code can safely say it isn't that developed... however my experience playing says success can be achieved ignoring 'off the ball' & strikers with no pace. I am now aware of how much 'off the ball' does kill along with a strong lad upfront.... but for years I was happily ignoring it

    ... same for positioning for defenders... i go for "tackling" instead in lower leagues... (Lucio was one of the best Defenders in the ODB. His positioning was always shit...) I think at the lower level its a bit random to be honest (ex, Jumping & Strength & shitty everything else could be enough for strings of great ratings)

    For DMC, i never Ever cared for 'positioning', great ratings can be on the back of Aggression & Tackling alone, but i recognize the "the work" attributes boost this a lot.

    For midfielders, I've never EVER looked at 'off the ball'. I look at creativity & passing. it seems to work


    Another aspect that hasn't been mentioned is stamina. I didn't usually care or look for it, but i've recently found this is one of the most important ones. A player can be great all-round, but with no 'stamina' he simply is not at the standard required to play professional football. I actually think this explain a lot of strings of bad/passable ratings/exhibitions. (JUST A UNDERLINING HERE, 'Stamina' is really REAAAALLLY IMPORTANT FOR WIDE PLAYERS)

    In sum, I think if someone follows this guide, they'll probably achieve success. I know churky said himself there's 1000 other ways around to do the same. I guess all I'm saying is I agree.

  13. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by churky View Post
    Not really true from my experience. Once I was deliberately pissing off my players over the course of a season just to see if it makes any difference. It didn't.
    I think this is a bit like chicken & egg.
    You piss them off, morale goes down. The team still has quality to win a lot, morale goes up.

    I agree that it is not absolutely crucial, but morale does play a role in a way you don't seem to see. But ok, thats fine.

    Quote Originally Posted by merkezekrem View Post
    Maybe low determination players' morale effect them more and vice versa
    Again, for years & years I've ignored 'Determination'. I am not pretending i win every thing all the time, but I was able to win a lot

    then I started seeing a pattern with failed transfers & "determination"... low ratings & "determination"... and especially how difficult to beat teams the scout rate as determined are... So I started focusing on 'determination' when operating a big change at a club, it really makes a difference & makes the game easier (its like it gives you an edge over teams of similar & even greater ability)

  14. #38
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    Just thought I'd add my own two cents here...

    I once experimented in one of my saves by picking players sorted by Morale. I found that the players who had a higher morale produced a higher rating and, in general, results were a little bit better than before. I also found that players who were 'average' stat wise would pull it out of the bag on more than one occasion and really shine in matches. I don't know whether this was simply superstition or that I was over analysing things but I personally feel morale has some sort of bearing on a matches outcome. It comes down to personal preference really.

  15. #39
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    I think it's safe to say that if the tactic is strong enough, no amount of crappy players or low morale can make difference. So in that sense I can agree with Churky. On the other hand, when playing with nonwibbed flat 442's, the small things do start to matter. That's at least my experience when playing these tactics over long periods.

    Also I'd like to second the shout-out for Stamina as an important attribute. I've ignored this one completely for ever up until recently. And though, i was good enough without looking at stamina, my performances have increased now that I do. Maybe it simply because with high stamina allround you can keep your best players going longer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Patinoz View Post
    Without the ball screen

    The lowest middle WOB box is the key, you need to fill it with bodies.
    On upper WOB screens, you need to push your defensive line much higher than the default position. It will make you both defensively(offside trap) and offensively(pressing) potent.

    With the ball screen

    Put your fullbacks (or other wide players if you decided to use them) as narrow as possible while maintaining their wide positions on overview screen.
    Crowd the highest middle WIB box with your forwards and midfielders.
    Place your players on the edges of each box, avoid having more than one player in the middle.
    So you mean: "crowd" the WIB box with forwards/midfielders by placing them on the edges and put your main striker in the middle?
    Is that the same for "filling the lower middle WOB box with bodies", placing almost everyone on the edges and your main defender in the middle?

    i'm sorry it's just a little confusing with some of these contradicting things. (crowd/bodies vs. avoid having more than one player in the middle)
    Last edited by heldheld; 14-01-13 at 08:24 PM.

  17. #41
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    For the highest middle WIB box, the "crowd" advice stands.
    For every other WIB screen, you should "Place your players on the edges of each box and avoid having more than one player in the middle".

  18. #42
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    For the highest middle WIB box, the "crowd" advice stands.
    For every other WIB screen, you should "Place your players on the edges of each box and avoid having more than one player in the middle".

  19. #43
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    And in the WOB would it be the same?
    a crowded lower middle box and the other WOB screens with 1 in the middle and the rest on the edges?

  20. #44
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    Without the ball screen

    The lowest middle WOB box is the key, you need to fill it with bodies.
    On upper WOB screens, you need to push your defensive line much higher than the default position. It will make you both defensively(offside trap) and offensively(pressing) potent.
    A crowded lower middle box - yes.
    But other WOB screen you should retain the default shape while pushing up your defensive line (and the rest of the players accordingly).

  21. #45
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    this was a really good read, ty

  22. #46
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    I'd add one more important tip:

    leave highest left and right "WITH THE BALL" boxes empty. No players inside. Move tchem to the edges of the box.

    In many cases that "wibwob rule" appeared to be crucial. When applying it you can even play your L&R defenders wide (when having 4 of them), wingers like, except for those two boxes which should remain EMPTY.

  23. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fabbs View Post
    I'd add one more important tip:

    leave highest left and right "WITH THE BALL" boxes empty.

    Why?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Goofy View Post
    Why?
    I don't know, Goof. honestly BUT: I got back to playing CM0102 recently, discovered my managering skills are a bit rusty, so read a bit through this forum in search for some tips. Got to this thread, applied what I've learned (meaning: I created my own tactics) and... Nothing. At least: nothing special. After a couple of experiments thought to myself: why would I care to appoint a player to every WIB box? Specialy those upper left and right? If I want - and I DO - to have almost everyone in the middle upper box what attacking, why would I also want this pack to run like crazy from one one wing to another?
    And: what would CM engine do if I don't tell him anything bout them empty boxes?

    Well. That's what happend:

    created a fresh tactic, applied first to Polish National Team career landed 4th in World Cup, then repeated in Europe. Loosing twice to Italians

    Now I'm checking the power of this tactic on Stevenage Borough (conference) and win nicely almost everything (only two draws, never lost anything so far) for like 25 matches including cups.

    I just feel the difference.

    Tried it with another tacs: the same. Just makes the difference.

    Don't know why, but apparently it does

  25. #49
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    It's good to read what other people do....I'll share what has served me very well for years and maybe those struggling a bit will find it useful.

    Tactics:
    3 DC
    1 DMC
    2 MC
    1 AMC
    3 FC

    Direct, hard tackling, offside trap, pressing

    Captain: select the player with highest influence and determination (but not a youngster)

    Penalties, corners, free kicks etc - leave them all blank and let those on the pitch decide whose going to take what.

    WIBWOB - I have NEVER changed anything here at all.

    I've read that a lot of people don't use 'direct' but personally, I've never used anything else and it's always work really well for me. Likewise, lots of people WIB and WOB, but again, I never have done...ever and there isn't a league/cup I haven't won.

    Players

    GK: Handling is the most important but also look for reflexes and agilty with 10's in jumping and bravery too.
    Having a decent keeper is really important with this formation because if he's rubbish, you could ship a few goals. That said, I've always managed to find a keeper who works fine with this formation, even with lower league clubs. If your keeper is crap, sell him and get another, if the new is crap, get another and keep going until you get one.

    DC: tackling, stamina, strength, positioning, pace, marking, jumping, heading, work rate and determination.
    Sometimes it can be tricky to get top notch defenders with this formation - if you can get 7.00 as an average rating over the season, then they're pretty good. But it is entirely possible to get some players who buck this trend and get 7.50+

    DMC: tackling, passing, stamina, determination and work rate
    Almost any DMC will do well, some will do amazingly well. In the original database, in the lower leagues both Denny Ingram from Scarborough and Jamie Victory from Cheltenham averaged over 8.5 and cost peanuts. In any version of the game as I've said, almost any half decent DMC will perform really, really well.

    MC: big passing (ideally 15+), creativity, stamina, determination and work rate (and to a much lesser extent tackling)
    I've found that a high passing stat for the MC's is the most important, I've known MC's with 15 passing and 8 tackling with only 6 creativity do the job. Sometimes it's tricky to find quality MC's but like I've said, the passing stat is the main - but like many parts of the game it's not nailed on. I've had players with 10 in passing, creativity and tackling and they've created bucket loads of chances. Richie Wellens, Walker (can't remember his first name...could be Jason? anyway, he plays for Lincoln) and just 2 from the original database who are top notch - Kenny Lunt at Crewe is another.

    AMC: passing, creativity, stamina, determination and work rate
    Like the DMC, just find a reasonable AMC and he'll outperform what his stats suggest he should do when used with this formation. Expect average rating of 8-9 with lots of goals and assists

    FC: finishing, pace, off the ball, stamina, determination and work rate (also, the central player of the 3 fw's could use high jumping and heading)
    To be honest, it's pretty hard to have 3 rubbish forwards with this formation because even players who look a bit rubbish will do well. Finishing is very important and having at least one player with high jumping/heading is very useful - Leo Fortune-West in the original game is a machine, as are Michael Dunwell, Peter Weatherston and many, many others.

    Coaches/Assistants
    Get coaches that match this formation - ie do not employ anyone who likes a patient or cautious approach. High coaching outfield is useful with at least one with high coaching goalkeeping. At least a 10 in adaptability is useful and make sure your assistant has high everything and always fill all 6 slots (obviously ignore physio for non-physios and judging player ability/potential for non-scouts). Ignore their reputation in the lower leagues - unproven is preferable as they'll be cheap on wages.

    Transfers/Wages/Cashflow
    I like to buy cheap and sell high - I do it all the time. Even if the player is performing badly for his current team but his stats suggest he should be pretty good, take a chance on him. I often buy players from teams where they are out of favour and sell them for loads. Be careful with wages - just because you can pay a player 5k per week in Div 2 doesn't mean you should, especially if your average gate is very low (eg under 5,000). If he wants too much, get someone else. Youngsters are ideal here, they rarely want high wages. If someone offers silly money for one of your players, let him go and get a cheap replacement. If other clubs are showing an interest in one of my players who is worth, eg, 200k, I will set his asking price (NOT transfer list him) at the amount I'd accept to sell, eg 1m and you'll find that the interest will either immediately disappear (and you get to keep your star) or a team comes in with a 1m offer (and therefore enable you to get a couple more quality players in). If another club comes in with 1m offer, add another 200k to the pricve, if they up their offer to 1.2m, go back to the previously accepted 1m offer from the other club and cancel it, this ensures the player will go to the 1.2m club and increase your income. If you have players who are going to leave their clubs on Bosman's, offer 1k to the club and they will accept immediately and you'll get him before the end of his contract. Another KEY thing you should do to raise cash is once you've decided to sell a player, list him for MUCH more than his real value and see if anyone takes the bait. Eg in the original database, with Hartlepool, I can get 1m for all of these: Micky Barron, Richie Humphreys, Graeme Lee, errmmm there are other too...just can't remember their names right now...Martin Hollund will go for 500k and the other keeper will go for 650k. Sometimes Stephenson can be gotten rid of for 500k as will Paul Arnison, oh yes, Tommy Widdrington, he's another 1m..so that's what? 6m approx just from those few players for a Div 3 side? Happy days.

    Discipline
    Personally, I like a happy camp. If players get a 5 rating, give them a warning for poor performance. If they get a 4 or under, fine them a week's wages for poor performance. If they get sent off, give them a warning for getting sent off. If a player speaks out and upsets the other players, sell him. Simple as that. If they're unhappy due to lack of games, either bring them back into the team or get rid. If a player gets homesick, get rid, they rarely recover from it and even when they do, as soon as they miss a few games they'll be homesick again.

    Success
    This isn't in any way bragging, I am just telling you what I've managed to achieve by doing the above - there are loads of other bits and pieces but the above is the main stuff - I follow Hartlepool United in real life (yes, really) and in the March 2013 updated version of the game I took Pools from Div 2 to Prem in consecutive seasons, scored 129 goals in Div 2 and then again in Div 1. Finished 5th in Prem in 3rd season, then 3rd the seaosn after, then won the Prem for the next 4 years. I've won the FA Cup a couple of times, the UEFA Cup twice, the League Cup a few times, The Super Cup and World Club Championships and finished runners up to Barceloan in the Champions League twice. We have about 60m in the bank and have signed the likes of Ronaldo and Falcao (albeit in their twilight years but Ronaldo at Hartlepool!!) and only broke the wage structure to get Ronaldo - all the other players are not World renowned and all were paid under 10k per week until I started winning the Prem regularly and now the average will be about 13-15k per week (and consider that bigger clubs have players on 70k plus as an average for their first team).

    In the original database, the best season I've had has to be going unbeaten in season 1 in the league with Hartlepool (in Div 3) and winning the FA Cup at the same time.

    In the higher leagues, I've done the quadruple - Prem, FA Cup, League Cup and Champions League and have won the World Cup and European Championships at international level on a number of occasions.

    Using the above, I have never come across a team, no matter how crap, that I can't turn around and get success with - I've taken Bishop Auckland from Conference to Prem in consecutive seasons as an example.

    To spice things up a bit/try something new, I once tried buying only those players who had a minimum of 18 aggression and STILL won the league.

    Like I said, this isn't a bragging 'look at me' session, it's just an example of the success I've had employing the above tactics

    I hope it helps those who are perhaps struggling a bit and give it a season and see how you get on and if you have any questions and I can help, I will do.

    Cheers

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  27. #50
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    Good post Shilts, some great insight

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