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Thread: How to build a top tactic

  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jesus View Post
    So I've tried multiple work around tonight to try and run CM0102 in parallel but haven't got anywhere.

    First I copied new folders of CM0102 to my desktop. I then renamed the folder, the benchmark .exe and save files. This didn't work.

    Second I installed fresh copies of CM0102 on to my hard drive, giving them unique names. I then renamed the benchmark .exe and save files. This didn't work.

    Third I created new partitions on my hard drive, installed fresh copies of CM0102, renamed the benchmark .exe and save files. This didn't work.

    The problem I have found is that I get this error:

    Spoiler!


    Sigh.
    What I do for my parallell instances are bat files, pretty much like Derm tried to explain.
    I set CM3_DATA to point at my original data folder, CM3_TEMP to point at the current folder, and CM3_PREFS at my CM folder.

    The basic structure for my bat files is:
    Code:
    @echo off
    set CM3_TEMP=%CD%
    set CM3_DATA=C:\Program Files\cm0102\Data_org\
    set CM3_PREFS=C:\Program Files\cm0102
    
    :repeat_cycle
    
    cm0102bmquick.exe -load 00.sav
    
    .....
    
    goto repeat_cycle
    exit
    The .... is my results parsing/processing code.

    Also the parallellism is not that useful. Just makes the process quicker. Running several benchmarks with the same tactic is still tricky (because of timing).

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tapani View Post
    What I do for my parallell instances are bat files, pretty much like Derm tried to explain.
    I set CM3_DATA to point at my original data folder, CM3_TEMP to point at the current folder, and CM3_PREFS at my CM folder.

    The basic structure for my bat files is:
    Code:
    @echo off
    set CM3_TEMP=%CD%
    set CM3_DATA=C:\Program Files\cm0102\Data_org\
    set CM3_PREFS=C:\Program Files\cm0102
    
    :repeat_cycle
    
    cm0102bmquick.exe -load 00.sav
    
    .....
    
    goto repeat_cycle
    exit
    The .... is my results parsing/processing code.

    Also the parallellism is not that useful. Just makes the process quicker. Running several benchmarks with the same tactic is still tricky (because of timing).
    Thank you. Would this work with the benchmark .exe you released?

    I have my own method of tabulating the data from the .txt file so that isn't an issue, I just want to be able to run parallel CMs and collate the data.
    Last edited by Jesus; 03-03-16 at 09:20 PM.

  3. #28
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    I think we should remember the objective: create a good tactic. Just it. Not a perfect, not a unbeatable one. Just think about this: if you could find a unique and perfect tactic tha win any game, with any players, against any oponente, the game was ruined for you, except if you delete it. We search for the best tactic ever, but is the fact of we do not find it that make we like to play CM 0102 even incredibles 15 years after its release.

    Never the less, the benchmark method is not a perfect away to test a tactic. The assistente manager make stupid changes of mentality, use conter atack and behind the ball with no reason (that is horrible to a off side trap and pressing on strategy), and do not use the best set up of inicial players. I am pretty sure that if you use your experience, use the right players, you will dominate any match with any of the, lest say, 50 best formations on OTL. You will lose the 5% of stupid matches because superkeepers, red cards, contusions, bad keepers, etc., and i doubt that any tactic (of the top 20, for example) would be significant best or worst in those bases. I think the challenge of OTL is to buildt the best tactic for THAT group, THAT league, THAT oponentes and THAT stupid assistant manager.

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  5. #29
    Jesus is offline Official Challenge Team
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    So... following your advice I've made the following .bat file:

    Code:
    @echo off
    set _number=0
    
    :start
    if %_number%==10 goto end
    
    set CM3_DATA=A:\Games\CM0102\Data
    set CM3_PREFS=A:\Games\CM0102
    
    mkdir A:\Games\CM0102\temp\temp1
    set CM3_TEMP=%CD%\temp\temp1
    copy /y A:\Games\CM0102\cm0102_bm.exe A:\Games\CM0102\cm0102_bm_1.exe
    copy /y A:\Games\CM0102\a.sav A:\Games\CM0102\a(1).sav
    start /b /min cm0102_bm_1.exe -load a(1).sav
    
    timeout 2
    
    mkdir A:\Games\CM0102\temp\temp2
    set CM3_TEMP=%CD%\temp\temp2
    copy /y A:\Games\CM0102\cm0102_bm.exe A:\Games\CM0102\cm0102_bm_2.exe
    copy /y A:\Games\CM0102\a.sav A:\Games\CM0102\a(2).sav
    start /b /min cm0102_bm_2.exe -load a(2).sav
    
    timeout 2
    
    mkdir A:\Games\CM0102\temp\temp3
    set CM3_TEMP=%CD%\temp\temp3
    copy /y A:\Games\CM0102\cm0102_bm.exe A:\Games\CM0102\cm0102_bm_3.exe
    copy /y A:\Games\CM0102\a.sav A:\Games\CM0102\a(3).sav
    start /b /min cm0102_bm_3.exe -load a(3).sav
    
    timeout 2
    
    mkdir A:\Games\CM0102\temp\temp4
    set CM3_TEMP=%CD%\temp\temp4
    copy /y A:\Games\CM0102\cm0102_bm.exe A:\Games\CM0102\cm0102_bm_4.exe
    copy /y A:\Games\CM0102\a.sav A:\Games\CM0102\a(4).sav
    start /b /min cm0102_bm_4.exe -load a(4).sav
    
    timeout 2
    
    mkdir A:\Games\CM0102\temp\temp5
    set CM3_TEMP=%CD%\temp\temp5
    copy /y A:\Games\CM0102\cm0102_bm.exe A:\Games\CM0102\cm0102_bm_5.exe
    copy /y A:\Games\CM0102\a.sav A:\Games\CM0102\a(5).sav
    start /b /min cm0102_bm_5.exe -load a(5).sav
    
    timeout 30
    
    echo %_number%
    set /a _number +=1
    goto start
    
    :end
    
    exit
    What it does is run 5 instances one after another with a 2 second delay between each.

    It also copies the benchmark exe and the save game and renames it.

    It also runs the 5 instances 10 times before ending; resulting in 50 results.

    I think I cracked it!
    Last edited by Jesus; 01-03-16 at 10:33 PM.

  6. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by rabanadas View Post
    where do i find cmtactool?

    thank you
    CM Tactool is not on downloads section. Its a tool created by Tapani to analyze different benchmark runs results. You can download it here:
    https://www.sendspace.com/file/jdi2il

    To use it you have to use all Tapani benchmark stuff. Enjoy.
    Last edited by Maragato; 02-03-16 at 01:25 PM.

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  8. #31
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    Tapani may i ask you some 'silly' questions?

    1)first of all i noticed that using your tactics my players dont get so much injuries.Is this a sign that the AI likes your formations?They also are in good shape after the match (condition)
    2Do you have in mind while building a tactic how your players will move so they minimize their effort and so keep their stamina for pressing?
    3)If you could be kind can u explain why do you start your wib/wob from wob first?Isnt the opposite possible and effective?
    4)And for last a bold question if i may...Do u use some kind of programm that can simulate all AI tactics simultaneously with their variations and arrows , the one above the other, so u could find the most free spots to place your players on every box?
    With all my respect its nice having you here and i ll be glad if you have the time and chance to give me some answers

  9. #32
    Jesus is offline Official Challenge Team
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    Do only one change, and save it with a new name. Like 451_b1. Then you go back to your candidate, and do another one change. Save it like 451_b2 or smth.
    I honestly can't get my head around this bit. Does this mean make individual changes on different squares of the wib/wob (for example, 451_a1 moves MCs in the top left of the WIB, 451_a2 moves MCs in the top middle of the wib, etc) or does this mean make individual changes of the same square in different combinations to see which is best?

  10. #33
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    It's great to see Tapani back on the forum! It's also great to see Monte Carlo simulations in action for CM! The methodology is solid. The only downside is that you may get stuck at local maxima while we search for global maxima. We really don't know what the "points surface" looks like. It might be worthwhile to generate a surface based on some of the classic formations and go from there. I wish I had time to conduct the analysis but thx to Tapani we have tools to get there. Hopefully, someone here will take the lead. I will be very curious to see follow-up work here.

  11. #34
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    Huh, after so long away from the forums, it's interesting to see people finally moving away from Iodine.

    What's more interesting is that tactic creation has become a game on its own, arguably more fun than playing CM0102 in a "normal" way.

    Creating a decent tactic which will win you everything is really, really easy with just basic wibwob. Using one of the top tactics, howevrer, sucks the fun out of the game as they render players' ability irrelevant.

    Creating superb tactics for the testing leagues does seem challenging. It's a nice evolution of the game.

  12. #35
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    I glady want to use it but i dont understand s*** sorry maybe my english is bad and maybe i am stupid as F*** because my native language is Dutch and never have taken the time to invest some in these topics. I appreciate the effort that has been put in this topic can anybody help me out that maybe are speaking dutch its for me easy to communicate?

  13. #36
    Jesus is offline Official Challenge Team
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    Tapani what code did you inject to get your cm0102_bm.exe to export the results at the end of each season in to one file?

    I want to edit the filename/location that is exported by I can't find any reference to the command within the .exe

  14. #37
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    Hi guys, I'm trying to run some tactic benchmarks and am getting duplicate results seemingly at random times, one tactic I run 10 times has no repeats then the next has about 4! Is there anything I can change in the below code from the benchmark file to include enough of a delay? I've tried changing 'sleep 3' to values of 5,10,20 and 30 with absolutely no difference.

    Code:
    @echo off
    
    set nof_threads=5
    
    for /L %%i in (0,1,5) do mkdir dup%%i
    
    set CM3_PREFS=%CD%
    set i=0
    :run_next
    set CM3_TEMP=%CD%\dup%i%
    start /b cm0102.exe -load PSV.sav
    sleep 3
    set /a i+=1
    if %i% LSS %nof_threads% goto run_next

  15. #38
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    Hopefully this will give you some guidance

    http://champman0102.co.uk/showthread...ight=Benchmark

  16. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maragato View Post
    CM Tactool is not on downloads section. Its a tool created by Tapani to analyze different benchmark runs results. You can download it here:
    https://www.sendspace.com/file/jdi2il

    To use it you have to use all Tapani benchmark stuff. Enjoy.
    Dead link, can you repost?

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