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Thread: Defending a lost art?

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    Defending a lost art?

    Lets pretend for a moment that modern defenders know how to tackle....believe it or not Defending doesn't meaning 'Parking the Bus'

    Why aren't people man-marking anymore?

    Zonal Marking seems to be extremely trendy these days (certainly isn't working for Liverpool)

    As a DM(in the late 90's) who's only job was to shut down the opposing team's dangerman I often think about this subject.


    I noticed the subject of Man-Marking recently found it's way into the mainstream:

    Why Man-Marking Lionel Messi Is Always A Terrible Idea

    How to man-mark Lionel Messi: A study in on-pitch harassment

    WATCH: Manchester City loan starlet Pablo Maffeo man-marks Lionel Messi during Girona's defeat by Barcelona


    People are saying Maffeo marking Messi didn't work because Barcalona won 3-0.

    I'm willing to bet he didn't mark him as well as some people might be able to(can't forget about what else was going on around him)

    When I shadowed the most dangerous player on the pitch my team was able to beat teams that were much better than us on paper.

    If you think I have no idea what I'm talking about because you're thinking I played in some shitty league in the U.S. you're wrong (maybe 1/2 right)


    If you don't believe I know what I'm talking about listen to someone who won a fucking World Cup playing the same exact role that I had success with in my playing days.

    Italys defining moment in the 1982 world cup was the man marking of Maradonna by Caudio Gentile .which led them on to winning the final


    Most of the comments in the vid are saying that Gentile should have been a red during the match.

    I was happy to at least find 1 comment that helps explain why I believe that tactic can still work in modern football:

    I agree that he fouled Maradona a lot but everyone who plays soccer knows that the ball is impartial to both the offense & defense.. So as long as you are going for the ball from the front or side it is not a foul.. Also when both players are going for the ball the offensive player has no right to the ball if he does not have protection.. So if you wonder how he got so many fouls and only a yellow it's because he didn't break any rules.. the worlds "best" were expected to take punishment
    Last edited by Trust_in_Klopp; 29-09-17 at 07:50 AM.

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    shit...getting back to the subject of tackling....

    Why am I often left wondering who is teaching these defenders in the EPL or Champions League how to tackle?

    I didn't have the luxury of internet or cable tv videos when I was learning how to play but fortunately I was able to see a few of these over the years:

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    The changes to the offside rule in terms of when a player is active/not active mean man marking is almost impossible so there is almost no option but zonal marking on corners is excusable. It's such an exploitable form of defending it shouldn't be in an decent managers consideration.

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    Unfortunately as I'm in work I can't view the videos, but from the thread title, I've said for some time there doesn't seem to be defenders in the mould of say a Nesta or Cannavaro nowadays, and you only have to look at England's choice of centre backs now in compared to say 10-12 years ago.

    I remember speaking to an ex Southport centre back on the subject around a year ago as he was saying much the same thing, and around that time Four Four Two did an article on "Where have all the defenders gone" or something along those lines.

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    Absolutely hate zonal marking with a passion. Stoke were 'forced' into using it by Hughes when Shawcross and others were caught out on a 'clamp down' at the start of last season. We've not gone back to it since despite plenty of goals being scored against us in that scenario.

    I also blame the modern day coaches who want their defenders to play a bit and be able to pass the ball out from defence. By concentrating on such things, they don't do their training on defending and ultimately forget to learn how to tackle properly.
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    Yep - a lot of pool fans been slagging off Clyne for "doing feck all when he gets forward"

    He's a fecking DEFENDER - and very much a Denis Irwin 7/10 every game type one

    I want that from my defence, I don't then legging it up field if there is no DM cover (which Pool do not have). Now, people are seeing the beneift of someone like Clyne giuven we have a kid who's a midfielder playing RB sometimes getting exposed

    Fecks me off that defenders 1st job is no longer to defend/tackle etc- some of the names mentioned above were awesome - Maldini one of my favourite defenders

    Some may say the game has evolved and defedning from the front now happens with pressing etc but fekcing Ian Rush was doing that 30+ years ago in being firt line of defence

    Zonal marking gets right on my toits as well - man marking and take some responsibility!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Redknapp69 View Post

    Zonal marking gets right on my toits as well - man marking and take some responsibility!
    EXACTLY!

    Quote Originally Posted by AMC View Post
    I've said for some time there doesn't seem to be defenders in the mould of say a Nesta
    Literally wearing my Nesta jersey as I read this

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dermotron View Post
    The changes to the offside rule in terms of when a player is active/not active mean man marking is almost impossible
    I get what you're saying but that is not reason enough to not use a man-marker.

    Please tell me why cutting off ball supply and space to a dangerman that pulls the strings of an offense is a bad idea.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark View Post

    I also blame the modern day coaches who want their defenders to play a bit and be able to pass the ball out from defence. By concentrating on such things, they don't do their training on defending and ultimately forget to learn how to tackle properly.
    You're under the assumption that these defenders were good at tackling in the first place.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark View Post

    I also blame the modern day coaches who want their defenders to play a bit and be able to pass the ball out from defence. By concentrating on such things, they don't do their training on defending and ultimately forget to learn how to tackle properly.
    You're under the assumption that these defenders were good at tackling in the first place.

    I know what you mean though....defenders are definitely spending too much time on the ball

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trust_in_Klopp View Post


    If you don't believe I know what I'm talking about listen to someone who won a fucking World Cup playing the same exact role that I had success with in my playing days.


    I'm glad this video pointed something out that I know it completely true from my experiences..

    When the opposing team's best player has been rendered completely useless your entire team starts playing with much more CONFIDENCE on the offensive side

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    So many mistakes on D in the PL league this season.

    It blows my mind that modern defenders can't seem to figure out the difference between aggression and recklessness.

    Quote Originally Posted by Redknapp69 View Post
    Fecks me off that defenders 1st job is no longer to defend/tackle etc- some of the names mentioned above were awesome - Maldini one of my favourite defenders
    found a good quote:

    "Paolo Maldini was the best I've faced. He had pace and read the game so well. We played against Milan in the 1994 Super Cup. We lost 2-0 and I didn't get a kick." - Paul Merson

    How many attackers in the modern game have to worry about not getting a kick?
    Last edited by Trust_in_Klopp; 29-09-17 at 06:54 PM.

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    Our best defender is of the old school mold.... he's fast, strong, reads the game well, and I've never seen him foul someone..... always in the right spot and just takes the ball away with ease. It's so much easier being a GK when I don't have to yell at my defenders to get back because they've gone for a run and turned the ball over

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    Quote Originally Posted by Craig Forrest View Post
    always in the right spot and just takes the ball away with ease. r
    Tackling is so much easier when you're in the right spot!

    Rarely do I see a fullback in position to make a proper tackle these days.....some supposed top clubs don't even field a DM that knows how to get in position for a proper tackle lol

    Most of the tackles I see on TV that result in a yellow or red card are not a result of tackling harder than you should....it is a direct result of not being in the proper position to make the tackle in the first place.

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    Gotta give N'golo Kante some love in this thread.

    He isn't really a man-maker but the man knows how to tackle.

    Leicester->Finish 14th in PL -> Sign Kante -> Win Title

    Chelsea -> Finish 10th in PL -> Sign Kante -> Win Title

    COINCIDENCE?

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    He's a machine alright. A huge influence on the pitch.

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    Really? I think Leicester winning league was a fluke of a century and Chelsea winning title was due to change in managerial option and Conte being a tactical maestro .

    Can't really judge Kante. He is good utility player and great tackler for sure, but you have guys like Cyprien doing same stuff as Kante in Ligue 1... (I want someone to snap that guy up ).

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    "Attack wins you games, defense wins you titles." - Sir Alex Ferguson

    Could this quote have become so cliche that people like Klopp don't actually believe it is true?
    I will be changing my username if Liverpool don't sign a CB during the Winter Transfer window

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trust_in_Klopp View Post
    "Attack wins you games, defense wins you titles." - Sir Alex Ferguson

    Could this quote have become so cliche that people like Klopp don't actually believe it is true?
    I will be changing my username if Liverpool don't sign a CB during the Winter Transfer window

    Doesn't ring true with Barca though does it?

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    Technically it probably does, I imagine either them or Real still had the best defensive record in the league when they won things. Compare and contrast to Liverpool now and we can score all the goals we like but we’ll be lucky to have a defensive record in the top 5, probably top 10 at this rate!

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    Was only saying to my mate yesterday, the season we almost won the league with Suarez, we may have scored a shed load of goals like Man City, but they would have conceded at least 10-15 goals less than us - off to investigate if that’s true

    Edit: They scored one more but conceded 13 less, 102-37 (2nd best defensive record in league) compared to 101-50 (8th best defensive record).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Redknapp69 View Post
    Doesn't ring true with Barca though does it?
    Actually Barca helps prove my point better than any team in the world....

    Barca were on Top of the World....

    AFTER being at the top I watched them IMPROVE their FRONT 3 !
    (Arguably the best front 3 to ever set foot on a pitch)

    Yet they looked like a team that could probably get destroyed by the likes of Liverpool

    Barca's greatest moment last season was not getting knocked out of the CL by a PSG team who's manager employed the dumbest tactics in the history of all Leg 2 matches
    (We're are talking about a PSG team that didn't have Zlatan, Neymar, Luiz, or Alves lol)


    I'll take Barca winning trophies over Real any day....

    but lets face it...Barca can't dominate any of the good teams around the world anymore at it has nothing to do with their ability to score goals.
    Last edited by Trust_in_Klopp; 04-10-17 at 09:14 PM.

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