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JLa
19-08-12, 05:05 PM
If you have a suiting player (high creativity and passing, I guess?), does it benefit the team/tactic to set this player as playmaker? Which position should this playmaker have? DMC, MC, AMC?

Any thoughts?

info0
19-08-12, 05:09 PM
Do experiment.

I believe all balls go through this player and he will get the most passes in game (having seen Xavi with over 100 passes in game, which is good deal).

DM and MC is well suited.

mcnamee19
10-09-12, 02:30 PM
I've never tried using a DM as playmaker, I may have to try it.....

Also you can select two playmakers - am I right in thinking that the second playmaker you choose is insignificant, i.e. only the first playmaker will get the most passes to him?

Dermotron
10-09-12, 02:33 PM
The 2nd one is only the back-up if the other isn't playing iirc

Alan
13-11-12, 10:02 AM
Okay, now here is something that may be of interest.

I ran a test playing the same game ten times, five with no playmaker selected then five with a specific player set as playmaker.

http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/5327/playmaker.jpg

What do we learn?

Firstly, and most intriguingly, setting the player as a playmaker significantly reduces his obvious impact on the game. Half the passes attempted, half the passes completed, half the number of key passes.
Tackles are up but such a low number that it isn't significant.
Headers are down a lot which to me suggests that as a playmaker he isn't racing in to win high balls, rather sitting deep or in space to receive the ball.
Assists are down both in total and in terms of assists per pass.
Dribbles are down markedly... again suggesting he would rather pass than dribble, but more accurately simply because he doesn't have the ball as much.
The same would be true of the number of times he was fouled.
Goals are up, but like tackling this number is low anyway and in the tests where he was playmaker two of his goals were penalties anyway.
Average Rating is down, illustrating that passing is greatly important to a players match rating.
Most importantly the team result is much better when this player is set as a playmaker.

I would suggest that my player isn't particularly suited to being a playmaker despite the fact that he makes a lot of passes under normal circumstances. It seems he wins the ball a lot in his own right which is why he makes so many passes. By making him a playmaker he avoids tackling/challenges and therefore simply isn't in possession as much to make so many passes. However, the difference in tackles, headers and interceptions only equated to a maximum possible of 1.4 passes per game more. It all makes me think these numbers are cosmetic, almost made up by the game engine.

For information, he played on the right of a midfield three in a 4-3-2-1 formation. The left sided MC is a deep defensive player, pretty much a DMC on the WOB screens, my subject is a sitter, what FM would describe as a deep lying playmaker, and the central MC has a Farrow and is the most attacking of the three.

technoir
13-11-12, 10:56 AM
I like using playmakers. Especially I like those who are "complete" e.g. Can win lot of tackles and Headers. Recently i had a sick obsession to make a tactic with a player who have more than 100 passes in every game :D

Trip
14-11-12, 10:45 AM
However, the difference in tackles, headers and interceptions only equated to a maximum possible of 1.4 passes per game more.


Didn't get this part. Always love such posts though :)

Alan
14-11-12, 07:32 PM
Simply put, with playmaker set the player won 0.4 more tackles, 2.0 fewer headers, and 0.2 more interceptions. So over the course of the average game he was in possession of the ball 1.4 times less. Therefore, according to the numbers he could only have made 1.4 more passes per game as a non-playmaker, quite a difference from the 46.6 more passes he actually made.

Kenny Dalglish's Smile
14-11-12, 09:14 PM
I also just ran a test of this, with a few differences to Alan. I played a non wibwob 4411 and I chose the AMC as the playmaker (or not). The player was Guy Last for Everton, away vs Boro.

Without including a proper table here are the passing stats (attempts/completed/key):

Not set as playmaker
31 15 2
25 19 2
27 16 3
35 25 0
28 18 1

Set as playmaker
53 38 0
50 33 1
45 35 0
60 41 0
41 26 1

Tackles (attempted/succesful/key):

Not set as playmaker
3 2 1
2 1 0
0 0 0
2 1 0
1 1 0

Set as playmaker
0 0 0
0 0 0
0 0 0
0 0 0
0 0 0
:D

Alan
14-11-12, 09:38 PM
gain tackles aren't really significant. Perhaps if the playmaker was a DMC then the numbers would be interesting.

Anyway, either, as I suggested, my player simply wasn't a suitable playmaker, or the AMC position is more suited.

Kenny Dalglish's Smile
14-11-12, 09:50 PM
I wanted to try a more obvious candidate, and the results with the passing are pretty conclusive. I just love that fact that over 5 whole matches he didn't even attempt one tackle when being asked to be the playmaker!

Trip
15-11-12, 09:39 AM
I think this would benefit more research and I think it would be very interesting.
What I'm going to do is the following: set up 2 teams, 16 or 17 players each. ALL of the players are going to have equal attributes. (All 10s for example, with 15s for the non-CA atts.) Both teams are going to play an unmodified 4-4-2. I'm going to manually run the same match a number of times, since leaving it on holiday would make the assistants do unpredictable stuff. This should show more clearly the upsides and the dowsides of the playmaker instruction. I mean, obviously, so far we've established that small, easily frightened guys are better suited for this than big bruisers.

What do you think?

Kenny Dalglish's Smile
15-11-12, 10:05 AM
Intuition would say that certain positions - AMC, DMC would benefit more. So 442 might not tell the whole story. Your more classical 'playmaker' formation would be something like a 4312, right? Argentinian style, or Milan with Kaka ahead of Seedorf, Gattuso and Ambrosini

If you set up the trial I suggest also looking at lone SC... and maybe even the GK :D

Sorry for additional complexity (which scared me off a few posts earlier). Also... some scout reports mark players as playmakers. Do we know what the criteria is for that? IIRC they most often use it with a player with position MC

Kenny Dalglish's Smile
15-11-12, 10:08 AM
The reason for mentioning GK, btw, was because then you can be sure that the team will pass backwards to a playmaker, not just forwards

Trip
15-11-12, 10:17 AM
Well, my reasoning is to try and compare not only the chosen MC in playmaker and non-playmaker role, but also to compare him to the other MC that supposedly would share the same responsibilities on the pitch. Not to exclude a later test using a different tactic/player position. Btw, your test showed that when a player is more up front (AMC) he passes more than in Alan's test, doesn't he?

As for criteria, we know that high tacking capabiliy and aggresion would be all but wasted on a playmaker so that's a start.

Dermotron
15-11-12, 10:37 AM
Dunno if it has much baring or relation to this but on the ODB, if an AI club used a Playmaker in their team it seemed to be 8/10 a DMC in a flat 442 with no arrows e.g. Keane at Man U. Very rare to see an AMC picked and pretty sure never seen a player with an arrow on him

Kenny Dalglish's Smile
15-11-12, 11:00 AM
Btw, your test showed that when a player is more up front (AMC) he passes more than in Alan's test, doesn't he?

He went from being never highest attempted passes to always highest attempted passes in the team, every match

Trip
15-11-12, 11:21 AM
Dermo, how can you see whether the opposing team has the playmaker instruction on?

Dermotron
15-11-12, 11:36 AM
Pretty sure it shows in there team instructions during a match, not 100%. The other way would be when you add a manager to a club and the likes of Keane, Vieira are set as playmaker

Trip
15-11-12, 11:38 AM
Nope, doesn't show so it might be the add manager thing, yeah. Very strange though, obviously playmakers stay outta tackles, why would Keane be a playmaker is beyond me...

Dermotron
15-11-12, 11:43 AM
Indeed. From that I would always choose a DMC as playmaker and eventually realised it didn't work.

Juan Roman Riquleme improved dramatically as playmaker on .60 when the middle MC using the default 4-1-3-2

technoir
15-11-12, 01:12 PM
BTW what attribues are essential for playmaker?

Trip
15-11-12, 01:39 PM
It's what we've been asking ourselves as well. If we knew how it works, we'd know what works best for that role.

Monta
21-11-12, 05:37 PM
I used a Forward as playmaker some years ago.
I remember that i have used Ibrahimovic in a 4-4-2 flat as playmaker; he did not score much goals, but he made several assist. Reading the game story, he played an high number of pass, he maintain ball possession and had a lot of dribbling. The other forward made higher number of goals than ibra, but ibra was really close to the real ibra.

Does anyone make this experience in a flat 4-4-2? Any tactics download?

Fiestita
23-11-12, 01:14 AM
We now are aware of the reason why Riquelme never tries a tackle xD

ally_uk
27-11-12, 04:05 PM
Gaston Ramirez is my Playmaker for southampton, No Wib Wob tactic set to forward runs, and long shots, He put 4 passed them in that match :)

That was against Man United at home ended up winning that match 5-2 destroyed them, I usually set the playmaker as Midfield Central i.e someone like Mousa Sissoko he gets plenty of goals and assists :)

Pokahontas
04-12-12, 03:02 PM
We now are aware of the reason why Riquelme never tries a tackle xD:redface: :D :lol:

Monta
13-02-13, 12:04 PM
I used a Forward as playmaker some years ago.
I remember that i have used Ibrahimovic in a 4-4-2 flat as playmaker; he did not score much goals, but he made several assist. Reading the game story, he played an high number of pass, he maintain ball possession and had a lot of dribbling. The other forward made higher number of goals than ibra, but ibra was really close to the real ibra.

Does anyone make this experience in a flat 4-4-2? Any tactics download?

up...anyone with a playmaker forward?

Jesus
15-02-13, 01:41 PM
up...anyone with a playmaker forward?

My flat 442 non-wib/wob formation tries to emulate a playmaking forward. I'll upload it after this weekend with some instructions :)

AtomicAnt
16-02-13, 02:50 AM
I consider myself a veteran in this game, but what instructions do you give to a player to make him playmaker? Free role?

Dermotron
16-02-13, 02:54 AM
Hold up ball and try through balls with long shots turned off seems to work best.

Monta
17-04-13, 10:30 AM
My flat 442 non-wib/wob formation tries to emulate a playmaking forward. I'll upload it after this weekend with some instructions :)
Could you send this tactic, and more important please send single player's instruction...
I am very interested about a forward playmaker..

Fods
19-04-13, 02:31 AM
Jesus was back on yesterday but will probably disappear for another month, might be worth sending him a PM :saturn:

Jesus
19-04-13, 08:49 AM
Jesus was back on yesterday but will probably disappear for another month, might be worth sending him a PM :saturn:


Could you send this tactic, and more important please send single player's instruction...
I am very interested about a forward playmaker..

I'll get round to this at some point.. Haha.

Monta
19-04-13, 11:56 AM
Sorry jesus but i don't understand... my own english is a schoolastic english.

Monta
01-05-13, 02:19 PM
Sorry guys i refresh this topic,
i am interested about your personale experience with a forward playmaker in a flat 4-4-2. Is there anyone that can teach me about instruction to give him and some tricks wib&wob movement?
I think the playmaker forward should has the same wib like ACC in a 4-4-1-1, but results are more heading and no more assist. I would like increase assists... some suggestion?

Thanks

Kingsley
03-05-13, 01:40 PM
I often set my striker (I usually play with just one up) as a playmaker. I think that he gets the ball more often and therefore attempts more shots. I'venever tried any benchmark test though.

316'sRegen
03-05-13, 09:13 PM
i wouldn't use a playmaker, i think it sacrifices performance af a MC by making them more likely to pass in every situation, sometimes greed is good :D

I would sometimes have two AMCs but rather than playmaker i would use Free Role to let them roam.

Centurion
28-05-13, 01:59 PM
I've never really bother with a playmaker before but for some reason I did last night. Made Christian Eriksen playmaker in my second season with Ajax with the Euro Super League patch. He went mental!! At least 2 goals in almost every game at the start and 9 and 10 ratings. Using 3-5-2 Mark 1b he is down as an MC with a forward arrow (wib wobbed). Players instructions are run with ball, try through balls, long shots I think. His creativity, passing and flair are above 17. A lot of good high stats actually.

Trip
28-05-13, 02:08 PM
I've never really bother with a playmaker before but for some reason I did last night. Made Christian Eriksen playmaker in my second season with Ajax with the Euro Super League patch. He went mental!! At least 2 goals in almost every game at the start and 9 and 10 ratings. Using 3-5-2 Mark 1b he is down as an MC with a forward arrow (wib wobbed). Players instructions are run with ball, try through balls, long shots I think. His creativity, passing and flair are above 17. A lot of good high stats actually.

Yeah, that's basically the only position (f-arrowed MC) a playmaker really excels in, in my experience. AMC also works on occasion, though it was only when I set long balls as passing style and a high-jumping powerhouse as the AMC. Interesting about the player instructions, I guess it would depend on the wib/wob style. My playmaker has "Back" on both offensive and defensive free-kicks, also hold up ball and through balls. He's also the set-piece and corner taker. And yeah, f-arrowed MC as playmaker is really very effective and consistent.

Baron Zbimg
28-05-13, 03:04 PM
Intuition would say that certain positions - AMC, DMC would benefit more. So 442 might not tell the whole story. Your more classical 'playmaker' formation would be something like a 4312, right? Argentinian style, or Milan with Kaka ahead of Seedorf, Gattuso and Ambrosini

If you set up the trial I suggest also looking at lone SC... and maybe even the GK :D

Sorry for additional complexity (which scared me off a few posts earlier). Also... some scout reports mark players as playmakers. Do we know what the criteria is for that? IIRC they most often use it with a player with position MC

At Milan Pirlo, not Kaka, was always the playmaker, the player which every ball goes through. Kaka more or less acted like a withdrawn forward and could roam all over the field. I'd say in CM language Pirlo was the playaker while Kaka had a free role.

Jesus
30-05-13, 01:30 AM
I don't know if it's just superstition but I play a playmaking striker in a flat 442 (non-wibwob) and get some good results if the right player is used. I often see that player get a highly consistent rating (7.7-8.2) as well as a good goal-to-game ratio. The type of player I employ for my playmaking striker is a player with high strength, passing, creativity, jumping, stamina and flair. The key is strength though in my opinion as I feel that playmakers tend to hold the ball up and look to create chances off other players (passing to advancing wingers who lay it off to my other pacey striker).

ajra21
30-05-13, 01:30 PM
I don't know if it's just superstition but I play a playmaking striker in a flat 442 (non-wibwob) and get some good results if the right player is used. I often see that player get a highly consistent rating (7.7-8.2) as well as a good goal-to-game ratio. The type of player I employ for my playmaking striker is a player with high strength, passing, creativity, jumping, stamina and flair. The key is strength though in my opinion as I feel that playmakers tend to hold the ball up and look to create chances off other players (passing to advancing wingers who lay it off to my other pacey striker).

I friend of mine used to used Eidur Gudjohnsen as a playmaker in a 442 with some devastating results at times. IIRC, he wouldn't do it if his opponent had two good man-marker at DC.

Jesus
30-05-13, 03:03 PM
Could you send this tactic, and more important please send single player's instruction...
I am very interested about a forward playmaker..

So I finally got round to uploading this tactic as described in my previous post. Here's the link: http://www.sendspace.com/file/oqsn7e

The DL and DR act as wingbacks so the whole pace/acceleration/crossing combination is key to them performing. In midfield, the left MC is the anchor man (Hargreaves played VERY well for me here in the September 2012 update) and the right MC is creative midfielder who will spray the ball about. The wide players are your traditional wingers, but I personally liked to play ML/MRs there rather than AMR/AMLs. The right stronger is your poacher, he need to be fast, nimble and clinical. The left striker in the 442 is the playmaker. He's the guy you want to have the following stats:

http://i.imgur.com/Cz49dou.png http://i.imgur.com/5Gfjz6S.png

Make sure you set your playmaker in the team instructions and it's always a good idea to have a backup.

http://i.imgur.com/qesB6s3.png

Now on to my star man, Mario Bilate. I picked this guy up in my Sparta Rotterdam save on the September 2012 update when I took over the club.

I'm not sure if his stats are randomly generated and he doesn't fit the the perfect mould for a playmaker but his average rating and goals all made up for that.

http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6133/5954742232_41ee16f3d8_z.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/GTRZhoO.png http://i.imgur.com/zfg3QBz.png


I friend of mine used to used Eidur Gudjohnsen as a playmaker in a 442 with some devastating results at times. IIRC, he wouldn't do it if his opponent had two good man-marker at DC.

Funnily enough, the tactic I've just uploaded is based on a career save I had with Leicester City and I had Gudjohnsen in my team; however he was my creative midfielder and not my striker so I don't know how good he would of been playing there.

Monta
30-05-13, 03:22 PM
Welcome back Jesus, thanks for your useful post. I am testing more tactics 4-4-2 (flat wib/wob) like your's, i am going to send the latter one in next open challenge tactics.
I have notice that your striker playmaker does not score a lot of assist, in mine the second forward challenge like playmaker score more assist than goals. I think a really playmaker should prefer to make an assist than finishing. Mine last F_playmaker mades also 2 or more tackle per match, cause (i think) he plays close the midfield. In my Modena (ODB) Kamara is a good second striker playmaker.

Jesus
30-05-13, 04:40 PM
Welcome back Jesus, thanks for your useful post. I am testing more tactics 4-4-2 (flat wib/wob) like your's, i am going to send the latter one in next open challenge tactics.
I have notice that your striker playmaker does not score a lot of assist, in mine the second forward challenge like playmaker score more assist than goals. I think a really playmaker should prefer to make an assist than finishing. Mine last F_playmaker mades also 2 or more tackle per match, cause (i think) he plays close the midfield. In my Modena (ODB) Kamara is a good second striker playmaker.

Yeah I haven't played about much with the settings because I got good results from the whole team and as you can see the average rating of the playmaking striker is insane for a non-wibwob 442.

His passing is in the 70% mark and that's with a 12 for that attribute so I think that's a good return. I'm going to try my tactic with a big team, with the perfect choice of playmaker and striking partner and see how I get on.

EDIT: Does a high number of assists really make a playmaker a playmaker? I'd imagine that Pirlo sets up a lot attacks for his Juve side but doesn't actually get credited with the assist. The same can be seen of Silva at Manchester City.

ulixes
11-03-15, 04:34 PM
How to find good playmaker? What marks he needs to have?

samsami
14-04-15, 04:18 PM
Tested my DMC as playmaker (by playing the same match several times with my DMC half the time as playmaker and half the time not as playmaker)

The differences were just that as playmaker the DMC made more passes (45 v 35 average) and more tackles (9 v 6) as a playmaker.

So high passing and high tackling are important for my playmaker.

fry78
12-11-15, 10:28 PM
Obviously this is the player who dictates play passing/creativity etc. But what difference does it make to performance if this type of player was set as .

My question is does it improve performance?

I noticed that when signings of some players appear they are referred to as play-makers. So they definitely seem fairly niche.