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foo_jam2002
04-05-12, 11:23 AM
Hello guys, some help would be nice here: a) so i trained my young DC to be a right/centre DC instead of just centre and after a while he was R/C. I put him out of the specific training and after some time he was only centre DC again. I repeated the process again but the same happened. How the system works? Do i have to wait for a message to come up and tell me that he is a right/centre permanently? The second time was training for several months. b) The board is delighted with me but it keeps telling me every month that a specific player shouldn't be a member of the squad. It's very annoying and it doesn't stop. At first, the player had "unknown" in his future because he didn't play many games last season, but at the start of the new season he became "happy to stay at the club" again because he played many games. So why the freaking board still thinks he must go?

wato20
04-05-12, 11:28 AM
A -

I did this with a player.

I trained him to be Right and Centre.
he changed pretty quickly.

I took him off the training.
and then a few weeks later he was back as just a right.
I put him back in the training, but he took about a year to gain the central position again.

I think you need to get him with his new position.. and keep him training, and get to the end of that season, and wait until after the game updates.
And then in pre-season u shud be able to move him to general or other training and he shud stay in the new position.

B -
The player in question must be disliked by the club or a member of the board etc.

This will only go away when u sell him..

Dermotron
04-05-12, 11:30 AM
B. Is due to the interference level of the chairman, I'd imagine its quiet high (14+). Click on his name in the Club Info

foo_jam2002
04-05-12, 11:33 AM
Thanks Dermotron and wato20, i'll do that. You think you know a game too well, but there are always new things to learn.

shikaka
04-05-12, 12:58 PM
i trained my young DC to be a right/centre DC instead of just centre and after a while he was R/C. I put him out of the specific training and after some time he was only centre DC again.



An injury 'resets' the retrains you have already done. You pretty much have to sacrifice a training slot for that guy so upon reset, it starts retraining again inmediately.

foo_jam2002
07-05-12, 05:06 PM
He didn't have an injury but i sacrifice a training slot for him indeed. The game updated in Christmas time and i think he will be a permanent DRC from now on, soon i will know. Thanks.

Real Madras
14-10-12, 09:05 PM
Is there anything specific you need to do with the other settings, e.g. tactics, fitness etc? Do you leave them at none?

Dermotron
14-10-12, 09:15 PM
Versatility is the key attribute for a player learning a new position. Higher the better.

High professionalism will also speed it up a bit

Alan
14-10-12, 09:34 PM
Do you have any evidence fir that or are you just going by common sense?

And as they are both hidden attributes are there any recommendations for those that don't look into editors?

Dermotron
14-10-12, 09:50 PM
Done some small tests but enough to see the influence of Versatility. Its essentially a 'useless' attribute unless you want to retrain a player to a different position. If you give him 20 for all the positions/sides it will still be the key atts for a position that determines where a player will play best, whether he has 20 or 1 for Versatility.

Unless looking in an Editor of some sort, dont think there is a way other than asking your coaches about a player

Real Madras
14-10-12, 10:16 PM
So there's nothing specific you need to do with the settings? Just tell the coach what the new position is?

And cheers.

Dermotron
14-10-12, 10:28 PM
Well a player with low versatility will take an age to learn a new position and will 'forget' as soon as you stop or change the training regime.

I guess if your making a forward a defender, low shooting and intense tactics would be a good start. Vice versa, defender into striker.

View the 'Everything there is to know about training' thread for best routines for specific types of players :ok:

Dermotron
31-10-12, 11:36 PM
Having a leaf through the original manual earlier -

Versatility:

Physical: N/A
Mental: The ability of the player to be able to change from his regular position to unfamiliar ones. Players with a high value will be more receptive to positional changes in training
Essential Ability for: Any player that you wish to change the position of, such as utility players.
What to look for: N/A

Mick
11-03-14, 12:52 PM
Ive just bought Jonathan Biabiany for Aston Villa. Hes a FLRC. I want him to be a AML. Whats the best way to get that done? And how long does it ger=nerally take?

I mean I know how to put "New Position" training on. But do I have home doing other stuff, like fitness and tactics, or leave it all on none?

Sam
11-03-14, 03:30 PM
Ive just bought Jonathan Biabiany for Aston Villa. Hes a FLRC. I want him to be a AML. Whats the best way to get that done? And how long does it ger=nerally take?

I mean I know how to put "New Position" training on. But do I have home doing other stuff, like fitness and tactics, or leave it all on none?

If he's a FLRC and you want him to play AML I wouldn't even bother training a new position. FRLC can generally play wide attacking midfield positions no problem anyway (look at Welbeck, Sturridge, Lallana on the latest update amongst many others)

Kingsley
11-03-14, 03:44 PM
Retraining for position is a complete waste of time. Most players get pissed off at the training regime. Most players take an a age to have any impact and most players forget the new position as soon as you stop the training.

It is far quicker and more effective to use them in their current position or sell them and buy a player for the position you want.

ilovesanmarino
12-03-14, 03:00 PM
These last two replies are both entirely correct

LR
12-03-14, 07:19 PM
Since i don't check the player's hidden stats with any sort of editor during the game, I usually set a positional training for just 2/3 weeks time. If he gets pissed with it, nevermind... but if he doesn't moan like a bitch I keep that training regime permantely. Even rare as it is, I managed to get some positive results. I guess it depends which value he has in Versatility like Derm posted before.

ajra21
03-04-14, 08:57 PM
Retraining for position is a complete waste of time. Most players get pissed off at the training regime. Most players take an a age to have any impact and most players forget the new position as soon as you stop the training.

It is far quicker and more effective to use them in their current position or sell them and buy a player for the position you want.


These last two replies are both entirely correct

Interesting. On the ODB, I often used to create DR from MR as I rarely found good ones through scouting. It always worked well.

0141607
14-02-15, 05:55 PM
Lads

I have read a few threads about the above subject but I haven't been able to spot how you actually do it!

I would be very grateful if anybody could point me in the right direction.

Cheers

ajra21
14-02-15, 06:31 PM
1. go to the training menu.

2. click on a training "button" to edit.

3. click "edit".

4. a menu will pop up.

5. the bottom two options allow you to choose a new position (GK , sweeper, def, def mid, mid, att mid, forward) and a new side (left, centre, right).

6. edit these two the position & side you want to train.

7. click "ok".

8. drag the player you want to train from his current training regime to this new one you have just created.

9. leave him there for a long time. after a while, you will see he's trained in this new position - don't remove him from this training regime. if you do, he'll lose that ability. whenever i've trained a player to a new position, i've left him in that training regime for a whole season.

Fods
15-02-15, 04:07 AM
1. go to the training menu.

2. click on a training "button" to edit.

3. click "edit".

4. a menu will pop up.

5. the bottom two options allow you to choose a new position (GK , sweeper, def, def mid, mid, att mid, forward) and a new side (left, centre, right).

6. edit these two the position & side you want to train.

7. click "ok".

8. drag the player you want to train from his current training regime to this new one you have just created.

9. leave him there for a long time. after a while, you will see he's trained in this new position - don't remove him from this training regime. if you do, he'll lose that ability. whenever i've trained a player to a new position, i've left him in that training regime for a whole season.

Not 100% true, not all players can be retrained to new position and most will get unhappy at their training regime

ajra21
15-02-15, 05:07 AM
Not 100% true, not all players can be retrained to new position and most will get unhappy at their training regime

really? didn't know that. never had a player be unhappy with their new position. then again, i've never made huge changes. i've made DM R tiny D/DM R; or AM C into AM RC etc.

thanks for the info fod.

Fods
15-02-15, 05:09 AM
Someone else will clarify but I think it's to do with the hidden adaptability attribute.

Goofy
15-02-15, 11:18 AM
Yep, some players are fine, some complain about it. I've retrained Defour to AMC and currently retraining Krafth to MC (he's not moaning yet lol).

ajra21
15-02-15, 02:07 PM
kraft to MC? what's the thinking behind that?

faz44
15-02-15, 03:20 PM
I've been trying to do this for years as part of my "turning water into wine" obsession and find it incredibly frustrating that you can't retrain the vast majority of players. Really, it should be down to playing attributes and versatility. For instance, if I have a right midfielder with great positioning and tackling, I should be able to turn him into a right back. However, in my view, it's solely down to the way positions work. I took these screengrabs from CM Agent:
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b296/amancalledmikey/caseys.png
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b296/amancalledmikey/kierond.png

So, Casey Schmidt is some scrub in the OTL benchmark, Kieron Dyer is one of the best midfielders in the ODB. Schmidt can only play DMC or MC. His zeroes mean he can't be trained into anything else, eventhough he might be a little more successful as a striker. Dyer could conceivably be trained as anything because he has at least a 1 in everything. However, more obviously, with some training, he could play on the left. It won't stick, something which annoys me immensely (and something I either put in or should have put in as a patch request for Tapani), but it's down to the positional matrix more than anything.

ajra21
15-02-15, 04:50 PM
i'm actually ok with this. one thing that i believe is a constant problem in real football, is manager playing players out of position. right wingers on the left. DC at RB. forwards on the wing. many players have one position that they play their best in, even though they may play the majority of their career in another position.

two examples:
emile heskey
his goal record at liverpool does not look good. yet, he scored a total of 60 goals in 220. the criticism he gets for his time as a striker is kinda legendary. but he played pretty much 50 of his time as a left winger because "he could do a job there". but really he couldn't. he couldn't beat RB with skill. his left foot was weaker than his righting so if he ever simply out paced the RB, the cross would suck. he was a striker who teams tried to retrain as a left winger. he played there but he didn't like it or play well.

kieron dyer
he was a good M C who would often get played out wide on the right because he was damn fast. he seemed fine with this because he was right footed. he had good games there. but whenever someone tried playing him on the left, his ability was completely curbed. it didn't matter how many teams/managers/coaches tried, he was never really capable of playing on the left.

the game, apparently, does a good job of not letting players get too versatile.

faz44
15-02-15, 06:13 PM
I think you could also argue it doesn't let them become versatile enough. Most players have had to remake themselves in another position to get a career in the game. However, you can't do it AT ALL in CM, if the positional numbers aren't there. Kevin Horlock was versatile, left West Ham having been an ineffective left back through his youth career but through determination, versatility and good coaching, he remade himself as a defensive midfielder. You can't do that in CM because the thought process wasn't there in the design. In my view, it's a part of the game which is under-developed.

Goofy
15-02-15, 09:25 PM
kraft to MC? what's the thinking behind that?

I'm pissing about with a centralized tactic atm and his physical atts are too good to punt him/go to waste :lol: Doing not bad atm:

http://i.imgur.com/0QAOkkc.png

Every game he's played has been on the right of a central midfield trio. His hidden atts are 12 for centre and 10 for midfield so he has a bit in that area at game start :)

ajra21
15-02-15, 10:37 PM
fair enough. i've thought about training him to be a D/M R so i can occasionally play him in midfield but as i play a narrow midfield, i figured it would be pointless. but if he can hold down a D/M RC, then i might consider it.

that said, i still think finding good FB are one of the hardest things to do, so keeping him as my long term #2 is the best bet.

- - - Updated - - -


I think you could also argue it doesn't let them become versatile enough. Most players have had to remake themselves in another position to get a career in the game. However, you can't do it AT ALL in CM, if the positional numbers aren't there. Kevin Horlock was versatile, left West Ham having been an ineffective left back through his youth career but through determination, versatility and good coaching, he remade himself as a defensive midfielder. You can't do that in CM because the thought process wasn't there in the design. In my view, it's a part of the game which is under-developed.

fair enough.

the game is never going to be perfect.

hollaplaya
12-10-15, 11:08 AM
Hello guys.

How effective it is? I've read many people saying that it doesnt work as it should.

I have a DM and i want to train him to be a CD, but it's been 1 year and he didn't learn that position yet. Does it help if he always plays in that new position?

Psmith
12-10-15, 01:57 PM
Hello guys.

How effective it is? I've read many people saying that it doesnt work as it should.

I have a DM and i want to train him to be a CD, but it's been 1 year and he didn't learn that position yet. Does it help if he always plays in that new position?

It's very effective and shouldn't take much longer than a year... playing time in the position is important to speed up the process.

hollaplaya
12-10-15, 04:20 PM
Thank you Jack!

And thanks moderation to change the topic to this thread.

Elgin_McQueen
12-10-15, 05:55 PM
You can train new positions?

Fods
13-10-15, 04:45 AM
Im not sure everyone has the ability to train new position though, has something to do with the adaptability attribute or something similar!

Elgin_McQueen
13-10-15, 06:30 PM
Had a rake about and found out where in the training section it is. For some reason I didn't think it was available in this version of the game. May try it out.

Janis89
13-10-15, 06:54 PM
Having a leaf through the original manual earlier -

Versatility:

Physical: N/A
Mental: The ability of the player to be able to change from his regular position to unfamiliar ones. Players with a high value will be more receptive to positional changes in training
Essential Ability for: Any player that you wish to change the position of, such as utility players.
What to look for: N/A


And profesionalism as Dermotron mentioned. Professionalism keeps the player from complaining about the new training

Cam F
14-10-15, 10:57 AM
I have no problems retraining players but if I move them back off the programme they tend to lose the position, how long do you need to leave them after they have the new position?

Whyme
13-11-15, 10:10 PM
I have no problems retraining players but if I move them back off the programme they tend to lose the position, how long do you need to leave them after they have the new position?

I read somewhere that after they've learnt their new position they need to keep training the new position until the game updates (either Dec update or June update I think). Then it should stick...

Alcoolix
27-06-16, 11:42 AM
I recently bought Morgan Sanson, an AMC, and tried to Train him as AMRLC (why ? I have no idea :D )

The Thing is, once he got pissed of with this Training, i tokk him back to the others midfielders and saw after a while he became an DMC... so i looked in the Editor. The Player had new: DMid. 15 Mid. 1 ( :eek: ) AMid. 14.

The Thing is, I changed it back to Mid: 20 but it keeps changing it back now all the times after a few days to DMC... :)

AMC
27-06-16, 12:12 PM
Anything with 15 or above for DM will show as DM, no matter how high a stat they have for M or AM.

Whyme
09-07-16, 01:29 PM
So one thing I've worked out with new positions... if a player learns a new position relatively quickly, he will take longer to lose that position when going back to normal training, sometimes as much as 3 months. Whereas a player that takes for ever to learn a new position, will lose it quickly, maybe within a week. (Assuming player starts off with a value of 1 for that position, instead of something like 14)

I'm pretty sure this is all to do with the adaptability attribute, if it's small the player will also lose the new position training he learnt faster. Other mental attributes that are poor that make them bitch and moan about the training, don't seem to have an effect on how quickly they gain or lose new position training.

I've got many players in new position training, I'll see what happens when the game updates in June and see if any new positions learnt will be permanent.

drown
11-07-16, 08:55 PM
I find that young players tend to learn new positions/sides faster. Most of them usually pick up the new roles in less than a year even if they are unhappy.

I played MVV recently and trained 2 young twins in new positions which remained permanent. 1 of them was from AML to AMLC and the other was from DRC to D/DMRC. I sold the AMLC after the 1st season and I left MVV after 3-4 seasons.

I remember checking back after about 10 seasons and both players still have their trained positions.

Sure
11-07-16, 09:36 PM
I'm actually forcing some bhutani players to learn a new position (for the sake of putting them in a role which should suit them better and because I have no AMC in the whole country).

My first subject, who was 29 when it started, waited more than one year before agreeing to play in the center. And after two years of painful whipping, he's still not entirely ready to play AMC (this position appears and disappears weekly).

The second is younger, being only 25 when the brainwashing debuted. It took one whole year before the new position started to appear next to his name. It's not over, I need to train him longer.

Of course, the two of them are hating me since I gave them their new orders. When you think that they have to cope with me when playing for the club and the national team... I'm not very popular.

drown
12-07-16, 07:11 AM
Going slightly off-topic with this post:
I once made a player lose a position by training him in a position he supposedly knows. He was a AM/FRL and by comparing him with a GK, he could play in mid, attacking mid, winger and striker. I put him in a training schedule where the new position is midfield. He became unhappy with the training, lost the midfield ratings and became a FRL. :noidea:

Whyme
12-07-16, 01:30 PM
I find that young players tend to learn new positions/sides faster. Most of them usually pick up the new roles in less than a year even if they are unhappy.

I played MVV recently and trained 2 young twins in new positions which remained permanent. 1 of them was from AML to AMLC and the other was from DRC to D/DMRC. I sold the AMLC after the 1st season and I left MVV after 3-4 seasons.

I remember checking back after about 10 seasons and both players still have their trained positions.

That's interesting, that's the first time I've read anywhere that players can be trained in positions permanently. Can you remember if they were learning new position when the game updated in June or December? And did they have a high adaptability attribute?

drown
12-07-16, 02:44 PM
That's interesting, that's the first time I've read anywhere that players can be trained in positions permanently. Can you remember if they were learning new position when the game updated in June or December? And did they have a high adaptability attribute?
They were definitely still on the position training schedules during the game updates. I don't know about the adaptability attribute as I am not using an editor but both players should be high since they were never unhappy about it.

I just recalled another player whom I trained from AMLRC to FLRC and this guy was unhappy about training when I sold him to WBA. Funny thing was few years later, he was still unhappy about training but retained his FLRC trained position. Seems like a bug to me.

drown
12-07-16, 03:14 PM
This is the player I sold to WBA when I was still at Sporting Gijon, think he was 16 or 17 at that time. Seems like he learnt the position permanently.
http://i350.photobucket.com/albums/q422/jacstobe/trained_zps7mx0stdy.png (http://s350.photobucket.com/user/jacstobe/media/trained_zps7mx0stdy.png.html)

I remember he was still unhappy about training at WBA, guess he got other problems to deal with now. :P
And he got 2 caps?! :shocked:
http://i350.photobucket.com/albums/q422/jacstobe/trained2_zpsw5joqa8b.png (http://s350.photobucket.com/user/jacstobe/media/trained2_zpsw5joqa8b.png.html)

Whyme
13-07-16, 03:47 PM
They were definitely still on the position training schedules during the game updates. I don't know about the adaptability attribute as I am not using an editor but both players should be high since they were never unhappy about it.

I just recalled another player whom I trained from AMLRC to FLRC and this guy was unhappy about training when I sold him to WBA. Funny thing was few years later, he was still unhappy about training but retained his FLRC trained position. Seems like a bug to me.

That Caamano lad seems to have a few issues, maybe he's got some wacky mental attributes that enable him to keep his new pos! As you say tho it's more likely a bug - maybe they always keep their new position when sold to a new club? Will keep an eye on that one too.

My game isn't far off the game update, so I'll put lots of players on new training beforehand to see if they keep their new position afterwards. Tho I'm managing 12 teams so it could take a while to get to the update still!

drown
14-07-16, 08:43 AM
maybe they always keep their new position when sold to a new club?

Nah.. I just sold a D/AMR last season and he lost his trained defender position within a few months of leaving.

London35
22-07-16, 01:43 PM
I often find that when triained in a new position....they are never "that" good!...

hardly do it

Jez
23-04-17, 06:45 PM
This seems like the right place for this...

For context: .68 patch applied; original .60 data being used; playing with Tapani 2.21.1; the save in question is a current network game between me and a friend (PSV & Ajax 5th season)

I noticed that two of my CM's kept havingabsolute stinkers recently. Not like Van Bommel and Stilian Petrov to be getting 4's against Dutch league cannon-fodder.

I went into training and noticed that I'd got my saved training regimes muddled. My first choice Central Midfielders were on a training regime which had 'New Position: Midfielder' set. I don't know how long they've been there for but their form has been pretty dodgy all season.

I loaded the game in a saved-game editor and saw that both Van Bommel and Stilian Petrov now have a '1' for Midfielder in positions (default values are: van Bommel DM:20 CM:20 AM:20 and Petrov DM:15 CM:19 AM:20).

Obviously I sorted out the training itself first, which didn't seem to help. I've used the save-game editor to revert the values back to their originals, which works fine for a while, but after a couple of weeks they go back to '1' again no matter what combination of training or no training at all. Sometimes it happens during the matches themselves! I saved before a game, checked the save-game editor and everything was okay. Played the game, Van Bommel gets a 4, save, check, and he's back at Midfielder: 1

Any help? It's pretty much ruined the game for me :/

EDIT: I'd also rather avoid having to explain all this to my mate when I tell him out of the blue that I don't want to carry on a game we've been playing for months :/

fry78
13-07-17, 02:33 PM
I nearly always retrain a ball playing (DMC) to a (DC) so he can play in a back three.
I never remove any of these types of players from thier training regime.

There is one guy in my save who was only a (DMC) Willians.

But now he is a (D/DMC) best defender in the squad, and is the same standard defender as david Luiz (D/DMC)!


http://i.imgur.com/dUS2bw9.png






http://i.imgur.com/dmLibgm.png

dajo
15-02-19, 12:53 PM
It's me again :)
I put in two players for training - new position - attacking midfielder. Also one for a new position - midfielder. None of them after more than half a year did not receive a new position. I set it somehow after the start of the season, and it just ended.

samsami
15-02-19, 01:19 PM
It only works well with players who have a high score for versatility.

Also it depends on the starting point. A striker with a decent score for AMC (say, 14) will take less time to become a real AMC than a striker with a score of, say 9 for AMC.

foo_jam2002
01-10-19, 01:59 PM
I train a 15 year old to be a midfielder while now he is a sweeper/defender and he complains that he is unhappy with training. Is there a possibility for him to get over it or he will never change position?

Dermotron
01-10-19, 03:03 PM
He will eventually get over it. It means he has low Versatility. Beware though, he is likely to 'forget' his new position if he doesn't remain on the new training scheme

foo_jam2002
01-10-19, 04:16 PM
After he changes position, i will assign him to the youth training program till he's 20 and then to that for the midfielders. Hopefully he won't regress. Thanks.

Dermotron
01-10-19, 04:19 PM
Hello guys, some help would be nice here: a) so i trained my young DC to be a right/centre DC instead of just centre and after a while he was R/C. I put him out of the specific training and after some time he was only centre DC again. I repeated the process again but the same happened. How the system works? Do i have to wait for a message to come up and tell me that he is a right/centre permanently? The second time was training for several months. b) The board is delighted with me but it keeps telling me every month that a specific player shouldn't be a member of the squad. It's very annoying and it doesn't stop. At first, the player had "unknown" in his future because he didn't play many games last season, but at the start of the new season he became "happy to stay at the club" again because he played many games. So why the freaking board still thinks he must go?

This is your post from 04/05/12 :D

jsparker23
01-10-19, 04:33 PM
I'm having a nightmare with this issue - everyone I'm trying to retrain is unhappy. I will read through this post. Thanks!

foo_jam2002
01-10-19, 04:39 PM
You reminded me of that situation there Dermotron topic digger :)

martinho
01-10-19, 05:31 PM
I've only ever had positive experiences with re-training. I often play a narrow formation. Ryan Fraser retrained to play center as well as out wide to great success. Leonardo Spinazzola, a left back that can play with either foot has been great when re-trained to right back. Very rarely has it not worked out.