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konola
07-10-13, 04:29 PM
Hi to all the community and big respect to the Update Team for sticking.

I am Steve, 30, petro-and-computer nerd and CM 01/02 fanatic.

The game is still alive, and of course, we are talking about the best, most-addictive pc football game of all times.

Collyer brothers were appointed Member of the Order of the British Empire.
Their concept was original and the way they designed the game AI concept led to thoudands and thousands different scenarios and millions and millions satisfied gamers and hardcore cm fans.

Discovered it more than 10 years ago and still playing and enjoying it afterwork and full-time on week-ends.
Totally superseded beach and almost night clubs. TV is the only survivor thanks my top-mosted tuner app :)

But ...

Yeah, nothing is perfect, and let's face it :

Championship Manager 01/02 has been made freely available few years ago, and that's all.
Its closed source nature would then prevent any kind of further, wiser, decade-centric, vital inner improvement to the core.
2001 is 12 years, meaning we are still using a 12 years(144 months old) application.

It is internally old, security-flawed(bugs are legion when you force it) and data-loss can happen anytime the unexcepted happens(power shortage after disk rewrite still cycling, sudden disk backup failure,...)

And, dude, data corruption/loss(save games, for one) is the worst thing that can happen to an addicted CM0102 player who wakes up Saturday morning realizing 15 seasons worth of exciting and "intimate"(yes intimate, save games are more personal than personal computers themselves) leagues history, new talent-gifted defenders,playmakers, and strikers, retired and new-born 16 years old starlets from the future, have suddenly succumbed to /dev/null.

Happened to me once when I lost Barcelona's argentine wonderkid Mariano Ostua (who would later join "invincibili Juventus"), Zaccanti-Rosati-Hoffmann's Juventus(Hoffmann was a german player who was purchased by Juventus from Bundesliga champions FC Koln and who would become a Juventus legend close to Michel Platini, and whose stats let you envision a blend of Pavel Nedved and Karl Heinz Rummenigge, blonde hair pace, awesome stamina and work rate included) and the legendary Arno Van der Veen(serie a nicknames :"vandervini", "grandé class","il bomber"), the most accurate regen of Marco Van Basten who I was able to buy from wonderful Paul Briggs Manchester United for a record-breaking 160 Million Euros fee to join my "capitano" Alessandro Bellini's AC Milan side and prevent Juventus total domination).

Well, that's gone. :frusty: :violin:

That day, I told myself : "Steve, this game sucks ", returned to PS3 Pes, but later on, built myself a new CM0102 save game life.
It is cronjob-backedup and only power-shortage-at-backup would break apart.

Well, we can't do anything about that, as SI will not deliver that source code that is still a vital core to newer games like FM.

But, we can still improve some improvable game features :

- Classic Text commentary to : Improved and Context-Centric commentary, even better : Sentient Text commentary with dynamic context switching(would require dynamic filesystem and shell operations and silent dynamic folder manipulations/relocations through APIs and scripts)

- Classic Text commentary to : Audio commentary with user-selected commentator and / or context-sentient commentator allocation.

- Dynamic data backup to some hidden folder and in case save game data loss / corruption happens, a message box shows up telling you, where you can get the latest safe-to-use save game.

- Dynamic and context-centric (according to the league : World soccer for Premier League, Marca for La Liga, L'equipe for Ligue 1 and so on) customised newspaper strings

- And to a lesser extent, an all-in-one Setup wizard for : Background pictures, menubars, bugy-version-to-3.9.68 ...


So, what do you guys think about it ? :blah:

Dermotron
07-10-13, 04:44 PM
There's a decent selection of backgrounds and menubars around here already.

Take it you have plenty of programming wizardry to attempt of the suggestions? The game is freeware but without the source code, many voyages of changehave perished.

Be very interested to see some changes implemented. Tapani managed to jazz up the interface to 1280*800 which does look quiet sharp.

Welcome by the way :ok:

07-10-13, 05:29 PM
Are you teasing us or can you actually implement any of the above?



Sent from my RM-914_eu_euro1_327 using Tapatalk

Goofy
07-10-13, 06:43 PM
Are you teasing us or can you actually implement any of the above?


Yeah, what he^^ said :) Interesting ideas for sure!



Sent from my cave using hieroglyphics on a stone tablet

Cam F
07-10-13, 06:44 PM
Yeah, what he^^ said :) Interesting ideas for sure!



Sent from my cave using hieroglyphics on a stone tablet

At least your wrist must be getting a rest.

konola
07-10-13, 06:52 PM
Are you teasing us or can you actually implement any of the above?



Sent from my RM-914_eu_euro1_327 using Tapatalk

Most of the features cited above are not really hard to implement if you dedicate time to it.
Seriously.

Commentary files and strings are easily editable from install folder, you just need to "dynamise" them through an wisely engineered process to make the feature more realistic and the game much mroie addicitve.

Audio commentary can be easily implemented. Just hire a good commentator, or record your favorite one from tv broadcasts(taks time), use audacity and create multiple context-centric audio files.
Then turn the text commentary file into a dynamic script-node directly attached to a hidden-but-running-simultaneously-with-cm0102.exe-process media player.
Each audio commentary will exactly match its text commentary counterpart.

Moreover, audio music (barcelona chant, roma chant, champions league chant,national teams chants ...) can be added according to the match playground(not sure though as home and away doesnt seem under control on the commentary folder).

The same reality applies to newspaper strings, and all editable strings that are available in your install directory.

A GNU/Linux environment provides direct access to tools that will try to reproduce this "dynamism" atmosphere, but you can also find windows equivalents.

You need just few tools (and their specific euivalents) :
parallelism : some windows setup application that help standard users to setup the dynamism entity without having headaches
dynamism : scripts and threads
files and directory manipulation : mkdir,cd,grep,diff,mv,ps,cp,rm,moc,pid,kill
backup to disk,ftp,email (hourly,daily,weekly,on incident ...) : cron,tar,gzip,rsync,sendmail

If you know or take time to learn (or hire someone fast :) ) about these tools and environnement and dedicate time to draw a robust graph of occurences to avoid errors and loss of logic and design your mechanism very well(hierarchy testing takes time and will), then you know, it is not hard to implement.

Cheers.

rafafloripa
07-10-13, 06:52 PM
Or try and build the game from scratch ;)

konola
07-10-13, 07:07 PM
Or try and build the game from scratch ;)

You mean, a commercial game then.

Possible.
And would compete with CM 01/02 and FM and even overtake them.

Well, it would require a professional and organized team of skilled software architects, engineers, designers, leads, and bank loans or rich angel-investor ... : Company.

Well, that game would eventually turn commercial, as you can't pay all these people with candy :)

CM 01/02 source code-especially the AI, randomness and regeneration gems- is colossal, advanced and brutally huge.

And unless a serious hardcore team of enthusiastic developers that "code for free" gathers and develop it for 6 to 12 months, I doubt it would happen.

rafafloripa
08-10-13, 05:50 AM
There's a free civilization, a open transport tycoon, among other community efforts to recreate and improve their favourite games. Maybe an open CM0102 isn't impossible to achieve....

konola
08-10-13, 08:13 AM
True.

But as you said, a community made of enthuastic developers, audio and graphics designers is needed to achieve it.

Moreover, there should be a community board or game monitoring team to prevent people from creating bad internal behaviors or not-so-random randomness based on their personel view on what their favorite teams, leagues, players, football rules should be in the world of football.

It requires PROFESSIONALISM.
Otherwise, the game will never match the incredible, almost real life-like randomness designed by SI developers and product managers.

Of course, such a game, a better and fresher CM 01/02 with the same randomness and improved regen, improved and more immersive newspapers and media interaction and millions different audio commentary and 10 different commentators by leagues, and more immersive tv channel broadcasting as well as audio match replay highlight with some great sport-techno tune, secured filesystem and data operations and backup, would turn the open CM 01/02 into the greatest fork ever created, and would, honestly compete with commercial FM.

The only difference would be the 3D engine in FM, that we CM 01/02 fans don't need.

It would be awesome.

Optionally, if you have money you can hire a business lawyer, create a game dev company and gather a team of skilled developers, designers, marketing staff and football scouts and create such a game and make million dollars revenue and spend your holiday in Rio de Janeiro with Ronaldinho. :)

316'sRegen
08-10-13, 11:49 AM
Or you could try that crowd funding lark, if George Galloway can drum up 80 grand, surely the fanatics of champman could stump up the cash to fund the project.

You could offer Beta release to all "producers" :lol:

Professionalism as mentioned would be the main thing and this would need a very talented manager to oversee the project.
I don't think it would be viable to take on such a project without a place of work and physically bringing all the bodies together to work.
You'd need close working relationships between the whole team and trying to do this without being in the same location for meetings etc would be difficult.

info0
08-10-13, 12:14 PM
I don't want to bring anyone down, but such projects are utopia.

Forget and move on. ;)

08-10-13, 12:19 PM
... Or we can keep praying and wait for Tapani to iron out the major bugs...

I wonder which is more likely...



Sent from my RM-914_eu_euro1_327 using Tapatalk

Fods
08-10-13, 12:19 PM
:flock:

08-10-13, 12:28 PM
:flock:

That is one strange emoticon.

Clarify please.

Fods
08-10-13, 12:29 PM
ner

Cam F
08-10-13, 12:30 PM
Well i'm only guessing but Fods thinks this is even more unlikely to happen than pigs flying so he settled on a giant cow flying instead :D

info0
08-10-13, 12:35 PM
Pigs will fly.

Tapani was the only one, who actually made it to 1 CL group stage and Europe League in groups. However, after groups stages the later parts weren't drew, so cups never progressed further and game crashed.

This was posted I believe 2 forums movements back :lol:.

You know that CM is old program, adding stuff to it via normal methods is limited. Maybe someone would be able to write some kind of injector and inject new stuff via dlls (but then you need to add this to exe too, so cm reads those external dlls).

there was once one guy who tried doing what Tapani did, but despite his first enthusiastic and optimistic efforts, he is no longer here. Lost sight of him.

I can say, measure your strengths with what you can actually achieve and be realistic.

Most of stuff people want to achieve with CM0102 is pretty much, utopia ;).

With that said, I am impressed already with what Taps, JohnLocke and Golly achieved. I guess most people around here are grateful to them. Without their patches I doubt many would still be playing this game to this date :).

konola
08-10-13, 02:03 PM
Well, pigs will sure fly if people still have a closed-mind approach of CM 01/02 and what their operating system can actually deliver them.

Modifying the game inner behavior is utopia.
Since the game is closed source and anybody throwing himself into the attempt might fail on day one.

Modifying how a league is defined, or modying ther almost-inner game details is utopia.

Modyfing the proper game core is impossible, unless you build your own either from scratch(better open a company, develop it and sell it for cash. The community will still buy) or from reverse engineering(tedious,pointless,bug-prone process)


But some improvements are not belonging to utopia.

Check your install folder, watch a Steve Jobs Mac Presentation video just to get some inspiration, and think again.

Nothing is impossible to whom is open-minded.

At least Windows and GNU/Linux are billion-dollar worth software and ship with agile and robust tools that will help you do pretty anything possible with files, visual appearence and virtual paradigms.

Parts that can actually be improved is anything related to strings, text files and backup.
You just need to find the right tools and the right people, and have a open-minded approach of your CM 01/02 install folder.
If I had a good amount of free time from job, I would do it :ok:... but charge people for it :hat:
The whole stuff might take 1 to 3 months to achieve and test.
I guess the update team is used to awesome workloads, so they can do it :third:

1 - Modern-day Backup / Cloudware
[easy] Automated secured backup to prevent data loss / save game corruption
Tools : cron, rsync, tar and sendmail or their windows equivalent will do it.
Skills : A system admin student will do it for a chicken burger.

2 - Commentary :
[your girlfriend can do it] Improved text commentary : text edit.
Tools : notepad, notepad++, vim, emacs ...
Skills : Anybody who knows notepad can do.

[alternative] Intelligent text commentary evolving and adapting as the season evolves(the season evolution process is generated in editable and /or readable files)
Tools : Scripting and file operation tools (GNU tools or Windows API/Shell). fseek and fwrite aossciated to a script bot also help.
Skills : A Linux admin or a software engineer can do it.

[alternative-hard] Audio commentary based on the match context : scripting and filesystem operation tools (GNU tools or Windows API/Shell), Audacity ...
Tools : Sound producer tools package (hardware and software), Scripting and file operation tools (GNU tools or WIndows API/Shell).
Skills : A sound producer and a software engineer.

Actually easy, one just has to do it smartly.
First you hire a good commentator or record specific commentaries from your beloved commentator(say the legendary Messi fanboy : Ray Hudson :) )
Then, you just need to replace the default cm crowd sound files with crowd+audio sound files.
And finally to make it even more realistic, you could have 100's of audio folders switching themselves in and out from a dynamic folder feeding your install folder at the will of a hidden background process full of randomization scripts.

You can even push it further by creating a window application that let's the user select which commentator, commentator language, or chants he wants before he loads up his save game. You will just need more real life commentators for different languages and downloadable official chants from your favorite clubs(I love barcelona and roma chants).

It is all about open-mind and mechanisms agility.

3 - Newspaper
[easy] Improved newspaper and manager news strings
Tools : notepad, notepad++, vim, emacs ...
Skills : Anybody who knows the game pretty well and notepad can do.

[alternative] Immersive newspaper and manager news strings
Follow the pretty same improved commentary method.

4 - Exciting pevious game highlights
I am not sure at the moment, but, can't a game highlight be printed from the game menu ?
Then, apply the above method, put in some sport-techno (like in ESPN or Goal TV highlights with all the audio FX) and a highlight commentator(different from the regular one if you want, it just needs one more real life or tv-recorded commentator).

You can even go further by creating an application that would simply generate a video highlight that will display a static picture and the game stats or even a video of the man of the match, according to the most actions/assists/goals done and some random real-life videos showcasing video highlights from a game between the pretty same two sides. (Imagine Barcelona vs Levante away, Messi being the man of the match, and the video file highlights_ligabbva_messi_vs_levante) ...

Possibilities are infinite.

And anybody applying the methods stated from 1 to 4 would create a marvellous video game that will be thousands times better than CM01/02 and threat FM to the neck.

CONCLUSION :

Guys. Do you realize that all this is not really hard to do if you dedicate enough time to it ?
Do you know that it takes less work than seasonal leagues and skills updates and scouting to have an almost accurate database ?
I wish I can put the time (3 months full dedication) and money (yes it needs some money) to release this game.

Well the idea is thrown, and I tell you all it is feasible.

Furyio
08-10-13, 02:12 PM
Silly question perhaps, but has anyone queried the publisher or developer on releasing the source code to the community?

Typically one a game is moved to freeware it's patent shortly expires. I don't see why they couldn't share the code with a dedicated community

konola
08-10-13, 02:24 PM
Because the source code is still used in commercially succesful games like FM or even outsourced to game like FIFA Manager and more ...

It is about million dollars, and they can't give out their powerhorse for free for no profi to just a hardcore community like us :).

It is software business, and money rules the world :nono:

info0
08-10-13, 02:24 PM
They won't share it because the core of source code is still used for Football Manager Handheld.

Period.

To guy above you, ok, try and implement it. I am curious. Try and do it. I am open minded, but also realist and getting OLD game to do something it is not suited for, will be quite a task.

You do it alone and don't ask for help. You throw ideas, but are not willing to do anything, because you lack skills to do it and want others to do it for you? Deep :).

Sorry for being an arse, but that's how I am. :P

Cam F
08-10-13, 02:27 PM
Silly question perhaps, but has anyone queried the publisher or developer on releasing the source code to the community?

Typically one a game is moved to freeware it's patent shortly expires. I don't see why they couldn't share the code with a dedicated community

They still use big parts the source code for FM Handheld and will not release it, especially when nowadays they have no rival since CM went down the swannie & would be opening them up to a loss of revenue for puppet pullers Sega.

Feck info0 beat me to it while I was typing away :lol:

konola
08-10-13, 02:33 PM
They won't share it because the core of source code is still used for Football Manager Handheld.

Period.

To guy above you, ok, try and implement it. I am curious. Try and do it. I am open minded, but also realist and getting OLD game to do something it is not suited for, will be quite a task.

You do it alone and don't ask for help. You throw ideas, but are not willing to do anything, because you lack skills to do it and want others to do it for you? Deep :).

Sorry for being an arse, but that's how I am. :P

Ohh, really, I dont have time to do it, as nothing guarantees I will make money out of it.

I am a deep capitalist I have to admit :music:

And I take it to you are the one who has the skills but lacks vision.

By the way, the game's OLDness doesnt prevent any feature I mentioned above to be implemented, period.

Cheers

Cam F
08-10-13, 02:53 PM
Ohh, really, I dont have time to do it, as nothing guarantees I will make money out of it.

I am a deep capitalist I have to admit :music:

And I take it to you are the one who has the skills but lacks vision.

By the way, the game's OLDness doesnt prevent any feature I mentioned above to be implemented, period.

Cheers

This is now getting conusing, I thought you were offering to add new things through your skills that we do not have -

- Classic Text commentary to : Improved and Context-Centric commentary, even better : Sentient Text commentary with dynamic context switching(would require dynamic filesystem and shell operations and silent dynamic folder manipulations/relocations through APIs and scripts)

- Classic Text commentary to : Audio commentary with user-selected commentator and / or context-sentient commentator allocation.

- Dynamic data backup to some hidden folder and in case save game data loss / corruption happens, a message box shows up telling you, where you can get the latest safe-to-use save game.

- Dynamic and context-centric (according to the league : World soccer for Premier League, Marca for La Liga, L'equipe for Ligue 1 and so on) customised newspaper strings

- And to a lesser extent, an all-in-one Setup wizard for : Background pictures, menubars, bugy-version-to-3.9.68 ...

Then it was creating a new game but I really do admire your ambition I just do not think there is the will or know how or more importantly people having the time to dedicated themselves to it.

It's not like the updaters, at least they know all the unpaid hundreds of hours at the end there will be an update released that they will have played an immense part in to rightly feel proud of.

This would be the great unknown with no certainty of fruition for such an amount of work.

We had the great Tapani who did wonders and we now have JL & Golly who have made amazing strides previously thought unknown.

Don't lose hope, show us something to whet the appetite, talk is cheap, actions speak volumes.

konola
08-10-13, 03:03 PM
Yeah, it is just about time, and wether it would be freely available or sold for commercial purpose.

But anyway, I just threw the concept and idea.

I am not sure I have time to do it, dev it, hire a commentator or record tv commentaries and chants and crowd audio and highlights for free.

And I don't really oversee how well it would be commercially viable or received by the community.

It is all fog.

It is just an idea.

Next holiday, maybe, but my wife would certainly get a lawyer for divorce :lol:

There is no available time thread to allocate to this activity, already that work and "regular" CM01/02 seasons are stealing man's social life away.

And as you said, talk is cheap, actions speak volumes. I will stop babling about it from now :rapture:

rafafloripa
08-10-13, 07:34 PM
I really think that audio and video highlights would be the most irrelevant additions in terms of pure game enjoyment.

What I would dream about is a very powerful database/league editor where we could setup all the rules and fixtures of all different competitions.

A better way to visualize attributes, maybe like it's done in FMH with the coloured number background.

A pitch? Maybe a 2D pitch wouldn't be too shaby. Not too keen on the 3D though, that was the beginning of the extreme long seasons in FM...

Better ways to visualize statistics.

Smarter AI - it's currently rather dumb, often using players out of position.

Simpler training setup. It's always the boring part for me.

More realistic tactics - by that I don't mean complicated sliders, but maybe rethink it on the way a real manager would give individual instructions for his players. For example, instead of dragging arrows, you may tell your player that he should move to determinated area often/rarely.

Better scout reports. Maybe force players to rely more on the scout network.

More influence from club management.

Possibility of creating challenges.

Yeah, that would be a starter :)

konola
08-10-13, 07:51 PM
lol, you are more ambitious than I, and your ambition is cut short by closed source nature and SI lawyers. ;)

I better stick with dynamic audio comments of more than millions of millions of words like in real life situations with my little poor 100's audio file folder dynamic folder switching and official clubs chants and stadia atmosphere.

Videos or more simply audio background + image highlights are great when you need to rest a bit and watch back a game highlight from last week or even 8 seasons ago.

Hmm,as far as pitch improvement, I am not sure it is impossible.
If the pitch is a bifurcated image file wearing some dot xxx file extension, can easily be customized.
Since it is only one pitch, then you need to use the "dynamic folder randomizer" feature with 100 different hidden pitch folders so that you get 100 different pitches for the price of one for every game :)

Folder randomization and file manipulation process is all you can do.

Any binary attempt will result in unwanted bugs in the middle of your beloved season

Fods
09-10-13, 11:11 AM
Is this the same thread as this: http://www.champman0102.co.uk/showthread.php/3092-Would-you-buy-new-CM-01-02-UPDATED

316'sRegen
09-10-13, 11:14 AM
similar theme :ok:

konola
09-10-13, 12:38 PM
Ohh, people would actually buy it ...

(I am thinking twice now ...)

JLa
09-10-13, 02:19 PM
Personally, I'm quite happy with CM 0102 as it is. Besides, with Tapani's patches I've set the game speed to 200x, so I don't care much for match commentary anyway. :lol:

My only wish is that the "impossible to get a new job abroad"-bug could be fixed, as opening an editor and thinking "let's see now, I deserve a PA of ... hmm... 190" ruins some of the fun.

edit: how can training be any simpler? You don't even have to touch it if you don't want to!

info0
09-10-13, 02:57 PM
I will be honest here, CM as formula is outdated.

This is why I have more hope in Football Manager Classic in new FM series (came with FM13 for the first time, but was scandalously limited option wise).

Now in FM14 if they work on Match Engine and update FMC to allow MORE than 3 leagues + selectable DB size, I will be in Heaven personally.

Sure CM was great, so was SWOS, ISS/PES, but it's time to move on.

Och and JLa try CM0001.

It is without the problem you described above ;). Hell it's even better in some areas: not exploited yet, able to change jobs without using 3rd party software, you can change jobs INTERNATIONALLY, just to name few :P.

konola
09-10-13, 03:21 PM
I will be honest here, CM as formula is outdated.

This is why I have more hope in Football Manager Classic in new FM series (came with FM13 for the first time, but was scandalously limited option wise).

Now in FM14 if they work on Match Engine and update FMC to allow MORE than 3 leagues + selectable DB size, I will be in Heaven personally.

Sure CM was great, so was SWOS, ISS/PES, but it's time to move on.

Och and JLa try CM0001.

It is without the problem you described above ;). Hell it's even better in some areas: not exploited yet, able to change jobs without using 3rd party software, you can change jobs INTERNATIONALLY, just to name few :P.

But CM0102 is still better ! :)

info0
09-10-13, 03:44 PM
Debatable and I will leave it at that :D.

JLa
09-10-13, 06:05 PM
I guess I could play 0001 instead, but then I wouldn't have the updates. Tough call. :-)

info0
09-10-13, 06:13 PM
Och John is looking at that. Marco already put in colored attributes and 200x speed in it.

:D

Fods
09-10-13, 09:29 PM
Personally, I'm quite happy with CM 0102 as it is. Besides, with Tapani's patches I've set the game speed to 200x, so I don't care much for match commentary anyway. :lol:

My only wish is that the "impossible to get a new job abroad"-bug could be fixed, as opening an editor and thinking "let's see now, I deserve a PA of ... hmm... 190" ruins some of the fun.

edit: how can training be any simpler? You don't even have to touch it if you don't want to!

Same mate, never ever paid any attention to it at all, love seeing the matches fly by in seconds, seasons in an hour rather than hours/days.

Centurion
10-10-13, 01:31 AM
Is this guy taking the piss or serious?

Fods
10-10-13, 03:36 AM
Tekking piss.

rafafloripa
10-10-13, 09:43 AM
Lol, training actually bugs me. I know that I could just leave it and not bother. But it's there and it gives me all the options to customise different schedules, plus the staff assignments... Sigh, my OCD forces me to try and optimise it!

konola
10-10-13, 01:32 PM
Decided !

"Fresh, better CM0102" or FnB is now called Project "Blue Bob"

316'sRegen
10-10-13, 01:45 PM
Decided !

"Fresh, better CM0102" or FnB is now called Project "Blue Bob"

merge this with conspiracy theories lads :D

konola
10-10-13, 07:57 PM
loool

Fods
10-10-13, 08:34 PM
merge this with conspiracy theories lads :D

Or bananas

BobMem
11-10-13, 04:40 PM
In a blatant attempt to derail the thread I'm going to put this:

Open Transport Tycoon Deluxe is awesome. That's just made me realise the last 3 games I played on my laptop were Open TTD; GTA (original) and of course CM01/02!

Time to re-install Starcraft (original) and maybe C&C Red Alert.
In fact I have an Amiga 500 in the loft...

info0
11-10-13, 04:45 PM
:rofl:

That are some oldies :D.

rafafloripa
11-10-13, 05:25 PM
My main problem with OTTD is the AI

info0
11-10-13, 05:39 PM
Well, now someone needs to mention Prince of Persia (original from 1989!) and Golden Axe and I will be in Heaven, as there are some people who know what gaming is all about :D (gameplay + fun > all else!).

Dermotron
11-10-13, 05:47 PM
Super Mario Kart on the SNES has no equal for Gameplay alone, awesome

info0
11-10-13, 05:50 PM
Ow... Nostalgia. Yeah SNES had AMAZING games to be fair here ;).

Still, anyone using MAME? Street Fighter, Total Fight, King of Fighters, Metal Slug, etc.

Och the joys of OLD arcades! (not to mention I played Virtua Cop ALL the time on Summer Holidays because... Arcades had guns attached to them ^^) or original Mortal Kombat...

Those were brilliant days :(.

Felix
11-10-13, 05:52 PM
Anyone remember shufflepuck café?

I believe that the simpleness of CM 01/02 is one of the reasons I like it so much, if you add too many things it's not the same game anymore and it's not an improvement either. If i want to play a manager game where i can affect everything and go into the ridiculously small details I can buy one of the new games. For now, i think the originality of 01/02 is purely belter.

JLa
11-10-13, 06:28 PM
Well, now someone needs to mention and Golden Axe and I will be in Heaven, as there are some people who know what gaming is all about :D (gameplay + fun > all else!).

Golden Axe hardly ever left my Sega Mega Drive. Except when I was playing FIFA International Soccer. EA Allstars with Brian Plank up front - unbeatable!

Topofthekop
11-10-13, 06:50 PM
Speedball and Speedball II on the Amiga :D

info0
11-10-13, 07:04 PM
Och feck, if I remember, those were the games... Where if certain glitch happened, players turned to chickens?

I know there was one game like this... Football one too. Can't really remember the title :/.

rafafloripa
11-10-13, 08:05 PM
Allejo, the legendary striker on International Superstar Soccer. He is still hidden in the new PES, and there are dozens of YouTube videos dedicated to the best player of all times :D

BobMem
12-10-13, 08:21 AM
Shufflepuck Cafe? YES
Speedball II? YES
Golden Axe? YES
Super Mariokart? Absolutely!

SNES version was a proper game of skill where sliding round the corners and keeping it off the dirt meant amazing lap times. We played a lot of Mariokart 64 though as 4-player. Probably wasted a fair few hours on that and of course GoldenEye!

I did at one point develop a theory that all the best games were top-down: GTA, Sensible World of Soccer; Speedball II; Transport Tycoon Deluxe; Micromachines and did anyone ever play Supercars II? That was awesome.

re: OTTD: The AI can be annoying but I kind of like just building a massive railway with complex junctions and stations etc. Suppose it's like a model railway but without the faffing! :)

konola
12-10-13, 01:33 PM
Allejo, the legendary striker on International Superstar Soccer. He is still hidden in the new PES, and there are dozens of YouTube videos dedicated to the best player of all times :D

Allejo is actually Bebeto : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Superstar_Soccer_%28video_game%29 :whoo:

Pop Alexandra
30-08-18, 10:52 PM
Allejo is actually Bebeto : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Superstar_Soccer_%28video_game%29 :whoo:

I had no idea! Thanks for shedding some light on the matter.