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swedishcmgod
14-08-12, 08:47 PM
Playing in Ireland, season is aug-late april. Any games after that my players are so tired they're basically terminally ill. I tried resting everyone, only condition training but nothing is helping. What the FUCK do I do?

Dermotron
14-08-12, 09:27 PM
Not a lot you can do. Makes it a seriously tough challenge trying to win the Champions League. Moving them to no training for a weeks slows the decline but doesn't really stop it happening

swedishcmgod
14-08-12, 09:44 PM
Not a lot you can do. Makes it a seriously tough challenge trying to win the Champions League. Moving them to no training for a weeks slows the decline but doesn't really stop it happening

fuck. Well well, now I know... :(

Fods
15-08-12, 12:07 AM
Increase their fitness to 100% through a save game editor

galatius
08-11-14, 10:58 AM
I've read The Eejit's definitive guide to training, but I am struggling to improve my players' pace. I've created a training category exclusively for this purpose with "Fitness" set to intensive and everything else set to none. I have several young players (all approximately 21 years old) assigned to this group (all with pace under 10), but even after a full season their pace hasn't improved by much (in some cases, not at all).

I've got the best possible training facilities and world class coaches with 18+ in discipline (three of them assigned to fitness training so that their collective discipline rating is 50+).

What am I missing? :noidea:

faz44
09-11-14, 11:30 AM
I've never seen significant improvement in pace, even when I coached for fitness. I used to have fitness set to intensive and the others set to medium or light. I did a test with Brighton & Hove Albion where I coached players, changed up training and looked at what you can actually coach.

I'm looking at the spreadsheet I set up to track attribute changes now and the only attribute affected by fitness which changed significantly was stamina, which as far as I'm aware, mainly changes based on how much the player plays. This is often why when I sign young players, I sign players that can do it physically because I can't coach it.

faz44
09-11-14, 11:41 AM
A year ago, I came to this conclusion (http://www.champman0102.co.uk/showthread.php?t=4237&page=2&p=132415#post132415) regarding training and CA15. Now, I'm not so convinced.

galatius
09-11-14, 12:36 PM
Thanks for your input, Faz. Good to know I'm not going insane with never seeing pace improve!

Tanzo85
13-11-14, 11:01 AM
I'd guess it's like real life, you're either blessed with it or you're not.

I'm sure stamina and the likes can be improved and you may increase a pace stat by a single point if you vastly improved your fitness but overall, I wouldn't expect to see great gains.

faz44
13-11-14, 05:43 PM
I know 01/02 is widely-mocked by non-fans (and some fans) as being unrealistic but there's a lot of sensical stuff in there. There's a lad on my Facebook who used to be in my old Rugby League team and he talks a good game about fitness, despite putting on masses of weight since I first saw him. He wants to play as a back but he has the body of a union forward. He was talking about losing weight to improve his speed and somebody said to him that he was misguided. Firstly, if he ever shifts the weight and then gets his fitness back, that's probably as fast as he'll ever be because sprinters train for years to take 0.1 of a second off their 100m time. Secondly, you're better off concentrating on technical skills which genuinely improve with practice. From what I've seen, it is very similar in CM.

merkezekrem
14-11-14, 02:36 PM
Arda once said that he was very coutious on speed training as it would damage his thecnique. If that is related to the topic :D

I dont really noticed a player getting huge speed in my 15th season. They tend to loose 1 and gain 1 in different seasons.

albay07
15-11-14, 08:51 AM
Galatius hi,
Does this happen for all of your players or just 1-2 of them? with proper coaches and facilities, the only thing that comes to mind is that perhaps your player had already reached its potential abiliy, may be ?

bruno1982
15-11-14, 12:11 PM
albay07, for you what are the "proper" coaches and facilities? lot have been told about coaches and facilities, the truth is, if a player sucks well it sucks, even if he as the best stats.
I believe that there are some "mix" of stats that a coach should have in order to improve the player, so the target is to join that mix of stats...but if a player sucks it will do any good? I've tried many players with 20 finishing, but they suck, 20 passing...they suck...aren't this the stats that a striker and a midfielder should have?
Training them don't bring any improvement.
A coach don't play, so if a player is bad is coach fault? A player is bad, that means a coach is bad? The "mix" that I've talked above will do any good? More, does anybody discovered that "mix"?
sorry for all this questions, but training is this game as a lot to say...

galatius
15-11-14, 07:27 PM
Galatius hi,
Does this happen for all of your players or just 1-2 of them? with proper coaches and facilities, the only thing that comes to mind is that perhaps your player had already reached its potential abiliy, may be ?

I've yet to see any player significantly increase their pace over time. This is frustrating if I want to buy a talented young player (e.g. a very good regen) but their starting pace is low (e.g. less than 10). It's also very frustrating when a player's pace starts to decline and there is nothing that I can do to increase it. For example, I have an awesome left back (probably a Leighton Baines or Ashley Cole regen) who began with a pace of 8 or 9 and it has subsequently dropped to a woeful 5 even though he is only 23.

Pinturicchio
27-11-14, 06:48 PM
Is possible to get good rates from my DCs playing "zone marking" ? ( no wib wob )

Dermotron
28-11-14, 12:43 PM
These 2 threads might help understand why you get lower ratings for zonal marking -

http://www.champman0102.co.uk/showthread.php?t=4829

http://www.champman0102.co.uk/showthread.php?t=5864

I think changing Pressing to Yes with Zonal marking is essential

Pinturicchio
28-11-14, 01:55 PM
These 2 threads might help understand why you get lower ratings for zonal marking -

http://www.champman0102.co.uk/showthread.php?t=4829

http://www.champman0102.co.uk/showthread.php?t=5864

I think changing Pressing to Yes with Zonal marking is essential

Thanks Dermotron,

i tried but it don't works.

I'm trying to play no wib wob but i can't get good rates from my DCs. I tried everything ...

I think i will return to wib wob,

i don't feel like cheating cause the only way to get good rates(no wib wob) is giving "unrealistic player instructions"... like "move with ball to all players" and arrows to everybody.... i don't like it.

i prefer wib wob and "realistic instructions".

I like to grow up young players, and sell them to big teams, i don't mind to win competitions,

but with (no wib wob ) it seems no possible.

Plus, The new patch makes the game harder and different... so many tactics don't work like before.

And even usefull posts in the forum, are not usefull anymore.

Taribowestsleftfoot
22-03-15, 09:11 AM
What age do you train up to? I tend to train up until 25 and after that they go back in general. I've never spotted much improvement after that age. Do you think there is a cut off age where it become ineffective?

I do train an outfield player as a goalie in lower leagues though, too many times have I picked a team only to find that Weadlstone Raider FC don't even have a keeper and are 28 million in debt with no academy to even randomly get a keeper LOL

Fods
22-03-15, 09:14 AM
Have a read of this thread mate as the title suggests, everything you need to know about training :ok:

http://www.champman0102.co.uk/showthread.php?t=714

Personally, I chuck anyone under 1 into their own training regime where everything is intense, the everyone else goes into positional training regimes (ie: DEF/MID/ATT), I don't ever stop training anyone no matter how old they are.

Some good training regimes here: http://www.champman0102.co.uk/showthread.php?t=653&highlight=regime

Taribowestsleftfoot
22-03-15, 09:35 AM
I also keep a training slot called TheCu#t ...... this slot is for anyone who rages me in some way, it usually involves training the absolute opposite of what they are, they get cross very quickly ...... that will teach them to rage me. These people usually end up injured too, seeing as I play them in both reserve and main games AND have them hard tackling/mark keeper. I'm very unforgiving:

http://smg.photobucket.com/user/koopa42/media/greedyscum.jpg.html?sort=3&o=52

Fods
22-03-15, 10:20 AM
Do you use the discipline option often too then... :drama: :ok:

Taribowestsleftfoot
22-03-15, 10:33 AM
I'm terrible, I know I am, but I won't have tramps thinking they are the boss. I use the discipline all the time, EVERY time and yes, only maybe 1 in 5 does it actually help ..... the rest? They get mad, then I get mad, then I get straight on the nickname option, you can imagine the rest.

afaik
01-04-15, 10:37 AM
Haha love it! IRL that stuff doesn't cut it but I do admire your courage doing it in-game. I imagine you've had some fun in 0001 if you play/ed it with Anelka (the god of dummy spits, but, in 0001 at least, the god of strikers too). Nice use of the nickname too, I hadn't thought of that. Now I want to run a game where I'm the ultimate d1ck manager and just mess with players who either fail or mess with me.

You sir, are a bad influence :P

joeman
29-05-17, 05:38 AM
I have wasted a lot of my youth playing this game. I have gotten different editors to study the mechanics of the game, and I think I have the game mechanics mostly figured out as far as training is concerned.

1. Ironically, the most important attributes in this game are hidden. The most important hidden attributes of all are *consistency* and *important matches*. Also for GK, one-on-one. Have you tried playing a young spanking new GK? Chances are his consistency is low and is totally unusable. Also, defenders in general are a walking time bomb if consistency is not high. Also important matches make a world of difference when your entire season is on the line. In fact, I have found high *important matches* to be OP. You really need these two stats to be at least 15. You would think 10-11 might be enough but they are not. The best way to raise them is to send young players on loan to lower division asap. Marc Vaughn actually says the same thing. He emphasized sending young players on loan to get regular playing time in lower division.

2. Contrary to what you think, raising attributes too fast through training is a curse. If you have a good facility, good coaches, and etc, you can actually increase attributes quite fast. But you player only have a limited ceiling which once reached, won't be any higher. Even if you tweak your maximum potential to 200 by cheating with an editor, your guy still won't be 20 in every category. So you can think of a player's potential as having a limited number of chips to spend. You don't want to waste it in the wrong skills.

With that being said, you can see why having *intensive* in all categories for young players is a very bad idea. You just waste potential points in the wrong areas. You need to spend the potential points in hidden attributes first. Next, you need to increase the most critical stats for that particular position. For example, I found defenders to be totally useless without high positioning.

3. Contrary to most people, I only have 1 intensive and the rest in light or none. The default setting actually makes the most sense. Also, I rarely have injuries from training. In this way, I can have some control in how to raise the player. However, I also found that a player can increase certain stats just from playing. A player can increase in skill even if you set it to light or none. So you have some control but not total control in how a player can improve.

4. Next, after having good enough essential attribute, you want to increase the next important attribute which would depend on your playing style and the type of player the guy already is. For example, if a striker has a good technique, dribbling goes well with good technique so you want to put him in skill training. For example, if the striker has finishing in 20's, does not have good technique nor dribbling, I would not waste time in skill training but would try to increase 'off the ball' attribute through tactical training. I would then see him as more of a poacher type of striker.

5. I spend most of my experience playing as a crap team from the lowest division and bring it up to highest division. I am used to having limited budget and trying to kick butts by developing players not having the highest potential. Instead of setting training to all intensive and just hope for the best, I usually try to analyze his original attributes that the game gives him to begin with. I think about what type of player I want him to be and how to develop him in a way that is usable. It is much more satisfying to eventually win the champion's league without using the best players.

6. The most OP non-hidden attributes in this game are *off the ball* for attacking players and *positioning* for defensive players. But you won't see it being OP at all unless it is really high, like near 20's.

joeman
31-05-17, 06:24 AM
Sorry, I should mention that, this is best for small club managers. I mean almost all my squad are youth player free transfers who have about 100 points of potential. Some have up to 130, and some have only 80-90. If you find a youth player who has 180+, you can develop however you want and it's probably quicker to load up with training. They improve faster than way. But I don't have those. They get snatched up AI big clubs quick. My method is mostly for improving a young player with low points in potential. Right now my starting GK has 17 handling, 18 positioning, and crap everything else, but he has clean sheet on average every other game. He has ability of 80 points and potential of 90 points out of 200. My coach said he should be transfer listed, but he is good. He only asks for $50,000 a year probably because he knows he is crap as far as numbers is concerned. I took on the challenge of building a team that is mostly homegrown and I sign free transfers with limited budget. So far I am mid-table in serie A, but with the team I have, I have no business being there in the first place. but at one point in the past, I have actually won champions league with crap players. It is possibly after waiting for about 10 years for super players to retire because the regens with high potential are not as OPs. Developing a good player with limited potential is doable if you are selective of their default stats and know what you can improve and what you cannot.

KL1
09-06-17, 11:36 AM
Very helpful post in an area that is usually overlooked or ignored of this great game. I have some comments and additions though and thought it might be helpful to share as well. All my feedback comes from the CM Guide document written by Marc Vaughn and available to download in the downloads section here (
http://champman0102.co.uk/downloads.php?do=file&id=26 ), and personal experience from playing the game since the year it was created 1998 till the 2010 edition (after that I stopped because it became too complex and time consuming for a game really).

First the comments:
1. "Consistency" is one of the most important attributes for any player. I would go as far as say it is the most important one. I remember in one of my games, I was lucky enough to recognize the Messi regen. Got him early enough before his attributes shoot to 20s. Stayed with me for 5 season until he was 24, and he sucked! Yes his attributes were magnificent but he was not reflecting that in matches. He had average ratings/goals/assists/etc. no matter how many times I played him or in which formation. Downloaded CM Scout to investigate and sadly his consistency turned to be only 11. His ability was at 191 from 200, but sadly the "Consistency" attribute didn't increase like the rest. Not sure why but from that I got the importance of the that attribute. "Important match" on the other hand was not that important in my opinion. It only comes in effect in few games of the season no matter what team/level you play in. It's mainly for finals, derbies, or games with big TV exposure than usual. Players with low value in this attribute would be unusually anonymous in those big games. Real life example would be Higuain. He's a lethal forward overall, but he shocks in finals on the big stage like the WC or the CL. Doesn't mean he's not worth it. If your team doesn't absolutely depend on him alone, then I don't think is a big deal. I would still play him in big games too because it's not guaranteed he would tank. Depending on the value of the "Important match" attribute, he might still perform to his level just less likely. I think this is only crucial for GKers, because if your main GK tanks, this mean a 5 rating and conceding all shots on target (and we all know CM loves those!) and simply can't afford that in big games no matter how good your players or tactics it.

2. I understand and agree, players potential ability is a finite amount of chips that you can spend, and they will not grow no matter what. The thing is why not spend them fast enough, in a good way, to make your player reach his potential fast and so have him perform at his top level for more years. According to the guide, players see their most growth before the age of 24 anyway.

3/4/5. Absolutely agree with your training schedules. The best ones are the defaults. Managers have a bit of control of young players attribute development, but not much and here's why. Training categories train different attributes but they are not straight forward. What I mean by that is that they are not organized to correspond with the requirement of each formation position. For example, "Off the ball" important for attacking players and "Positioning/Marking" both important for defending players are all trained in the same category "Tactics". So if you want to develop your promising striker by spending his potential chips on intensive "Tactics" training to increase his "Off the ball" ability, you are also training him (spending chips) in "Positioning" and "Marking". The same goes for Dribbling and Tackling, both are trained by the "Skill" category. That doesn't mean it's useless, but it's not straight forward as people might think. I'm guessing they made it this way to prevent unrealistic freaks who are very specialized for certain positions from becoming the norm. I would still follow your examples of training schedules
because at least you know you're training some of the needed attributes instead of leaving it completely random in the "General" training schedule. For players over 24 though, "General" is simply the most efficient.

6. I disagree on this one. Attributes near 20s are OP of course, but they must complement each other. A defender with 20 in Positioning but 10 in Anticipation/Decisions or Acceleration/Pace would not be able to shut down a very fast attacker even if the attacker has low Off the ball values. He might not even perform to his best ability if his Morale is "very low" for example. My point being, of course high attributes are better than lower ones but the game is
too sophisticated for 1 or 2 attributes to be OP regardless of the other attributes and variables.

Now the additions:
A very important aspect of Training players is the Coaches. Choosing suitable coaches and correctly assigning them their schedules makes a huge difference. Marc Vaughan, in the guide, gives emphasis on the "Judging ability" attribute of the coaches. Judging PA/CA by a coach helps in determining how much training the coach gives each player in the assigned category. So a coach with good ability judging would see who of the players has more potential for improvement. Another thing that becomes very valuable is their feedback when asking for reports on certain players. They will give you info on the hidden attributes like Consistency, Loyalty, Handling Pressure, Professionalism, and even Corner and Penalty taking abilities.

Marc also states that high values in "Discipline", "Working with Youngsters", and "Tactical Knowledge" attributes of a coach has special boosting effect on "Fitness", "Skills", and "Tactics" training categories respectively. So when assigning a coach for Fitness training for example, pick those with high Discipline.

From experience, and consensus here in the forum discussions, having each category of training (Fitness, Tactics, Shooting, Skills, GKing) covered with a total of 50-54 coaching points is the way to go. Coaches, like players, fluctuate in their attributes (+1 or -1) during each season. They also develop over long terms, and can significantly increase their "Judging ability" attributes and even learn new languages.

Sorry if this is too long, hopefully it's useful and not a waste :)

zionmaster
11-08-17, 04:23 AM
I often see Pisani's shit player developing so well in "Good player" section. Hope that he can share some training method experiences someday :)


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