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View Full Version : Everything there is to know about training - by The Eejit



Patinoz
13-03-12, 02:10 AM
There is a lot talked about training plans, how to get the most out of players. Almost everyone has a different view, so I thought that I would conduct some scientific tests to determine what factors will related to training, coaches and player attributes will have the greatest impact.

To start the tests, I have chosen AC Horsen in the Danish Premier League. This is partly because the Danish Premier is a small league, so it should be failry quick to play a season in holiday mode, but also because the board have no great expectations, so if I am messing about, I should at least be able to survive the season without the sack ! I have re-run some of the tests with other clubs (Bristol Rovers, Ascoli and Adelaide Utd) to confirm some surprising results, but more of that later.

AC Horsen has an average training ground (10), a small squad (23 players) an average assistant and 3 average coaches. All staff have been given very long contracts to avoid them being poached by other clubs (particularly when they become “super coaches”)

http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/3025/summary.jpg

http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/2905/squad.jpg

http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/7598/povlsen.jpg

http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/4208/larsen.jpg

http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/2046/nielsen.jpg

http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/1306/andersen.jpg

I particularly don’t like using “Fitness” coaches for anything other than fitness work, but I have no grounds for this. It will be interesting to see whether Henrik Larsen confirms my predjudice. I will be playing matches in holiday mode using the crusade tactic which appears to match well with the players available and should allow most to get a game.

To measure improvement, I am using CM Scout and the “Scout Rating” column. Having started a game, I entered all of the players ratings into a spreadsheet and averaged them out. It came to 55.39% and this will be my base line. All test will start with this save game (and I have made it read only to avoid any accidents)

The first test was a simple one where the Goalkeepers were set to intensive Goalkeeping and all other training schedules on none. The rest of the squad were split into Fitness, Shooting, Skill and Tactics, with the main schedule on intensive and all others on none. This was to find out which attributes were affected by each schedule.

The results showed that

Fitness : Acceleration, Agility, Jumping, Pace, Stamina, Strength and Reflexes
Shooting : Finishing and Long Shots
Skill : Crossing, Dribbling, Heading, Passing, Set Pieces, Tackling and Technique
Tactics : Decisions, Marking, Off the Ball, Positioning and Teamwork
Goalkeeping : Handling

Aggresion, Anticipation, Balance, Bravery, Creativity, Determination, Flare, Influence and Work Rate as well as all the hidden attributes are not affected by any training. Some may change over time, but this would be outside of any training regime.

Some interesting findings here. I would certainly want my GKs to be taking on Fitness attributes and the Positioning from Tactics would also help. Similarly, I would want my Attackers to be gaining from the positioning and off the ball improvements from Tactics. It may be early, but already I can see myself making some changes to my thinking.

The second test looked to see if the number of coaches influenced the training. First I ran the season with exactly the coaches I started with and measured the improvement on CM Scout. The average was now 57.29%, an average improvement of 1.9%. Next I released all of the coaches, and the assistant. This time the figure came to 54.57%, so we have dropped on average 0.82%. No big shock there – having coaches does appear to make a difference. Next I signed up 2 pretty average coaches and tested again

http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/1092/bogvard.jpg

http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/5394/pingel.jpg

The improvement was 1.93% which is a negligible difference over having the original assistant and 3 coaches. This was a big surprise, so I tested the original and 5 coaches couple of times with the same results, it always came out on or around the same figures (sometimes worse). I repeated this with the other clubs mentioned just to confirm, and there is no appreciable difference between having an assistant and 3 coaches to an assistant and 5 coaches. I would love it if others could replicate this quick test with their clubs to confirm my findings which I still don’t fully believe.

The next tests will look at how improving the training facilities improves the training. I will be looking at Player attributes, Coach attributes and whether more intensive training does result in more injuries, however if anyone has a test they would like me to try, let me know.

Patinoz
13-03-12, 02:11 AM
Improving Training Facilities

This one I thought was a no brainer. Improve the training facilities and the players train better. That certainly appeared to be the case when I reduced the standard of the training facilities to Awful (a 1 rating). A run through the season as before resulted in an average player improvement of 1.53%. This was less than the default training from the previous tests, which is what I expected.

Next I increased the facilities to Needs Investment (a 5 rating) and repeated the test. The players trained better and recorded a 1.97% improvement. I was expecting an improvement, but this was now better than the default which had a 10 rating. I repeated the test and achieved very similar results. Undeterred, I pressed on, improving the facilities to Good (10), Excellent (15) and Top Facilities (20). The results are recorded in the following graph.

http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/7005/facilitiesgraph.jpg

I had to repeat these tests a number of times and with other teams to confirm the findings, but basically there is little or no improvement between Needing Investment through to Excellent. Infact the lower end usually did better than the upper end. There was however a clear difference between Awful facilities and the rest, and a marked improvement when you get to the Top Facilities.

This already has me wondering about where I spend my money in the future.

Next test will look at players getting regular 1st team games and do they improve more than reserves.

Patinoz
13-03-12, 02:11 AM
Does playing improve training ?

In trying to edit the attributes of my coaches for the next test (do better coaches make bigger improvements ?) I managed to corrupt my base save game. As a result, I will be revisiting some of my earlier tests, which is no bad thing, as I think I spotted a small flaw in my logic. With my new base, I have confirmed the fact that improving the training facilities from “Needs Improving” upto “Excellent” makes very little difference. “Awful” are significantly worse and “Top Facilies” are significantly better.

With my new base, I ran through a season 5 times, each time with the starting 11 chosen for the assistant so that baring injury or suspension the same 11 would start every game. From that, regular starters improved on average 2.50% on CM Scout. The non-starters improved only 1.75% in the same games. It should be noted that it was often the “non-training” attributes that improved in these players (Anticipation, Bravery, Creativity, Determination, Flare, Influence) and it could be this that made the difference. Certainly none of the regular starters ever ended up a worse player at the end of the season, while some of the non-starters did.

Of all the tests I have started so far, this was the most conclusive. I hope to rerun some of the earlier tests over the weekend.

Patinoz
13-03-12, 02:11 AM
How coaches improve training ?

I can exclusively reveal that the answer to coaching is 50. But more of that later !

Before I start, here is a little hint for all those “cheats” or “players who want to enhance their game” who make use of save game editors. I was wanting to even out the attributes of my coaches so that they had 10 for the ones I considered the most important (Coaching GK, Coaching Outfield, Coaching Style and Working with Youngsters). My first attempt was to use Graeme Kelly’s save game editor, however adjusting these values would impact on the CA of the coaches and the game appears to know the starting values for these attributes and makes attempts to get them back to where they were, so after a season, the coaches are virtually at the unedited values (it may help if anyone knew how to work out a coaches CA).

The next attempt was to use CMExplorer to “transfer” into the club coaches with the attributes that I was looking for. At first this appeared to work, however I was getting some results that I couldn’t explain and after some investigations, although the coach is assigned to my club, it appears that he is still working for (and getting paid by) the club that I “transferred” him from.

What I’ve had to resort to is using the Graeme Kelly editor to alter the target coaches Current/Home/World reputations, the favourite club and set me as the favourite player/staff then start the save game and sign them. This has produced the results I want, but is a bit long winded, so if anyone knows a better cheat, please let me know (by PM if you don’t want your work to be public)

Will adding coaches improve my training

Having resolved the method of getting the right coaches, I first went back to a previous test to look at how increasing the number of coaches improves the players. For this test, all coaches had 10 ratings for the important attributes. Starting without any coaches I ran though a season, still using AC Horsen, and used the CM Scout player rating as a base line. I then repeated the season but this time with just an Assistant Manager. I then repeated, adding a coach each time, until I had a full complement. The results are in the graph below.

http://img67.imageshack.us/img67/8204/numberofcoachesgraphl.jpg

What is interesting is that after getting to an Assistant and 4 coaches, the improvement appears to level out. I had to repeat this several times, with big and little clubs and saw roughly the same thing the improvement levelled out after the 4th coach was added.

Coaches should only be assigned to 3 schedules …. Fact or fiction ?

A long time ago, I read on a forum (probably The Dugout) that you should never assign your coaches to more than 3 schedules and that your assistant should be assigned to all schedules. I have religiously followed this advice, but now it was time to test the theory. Using the same save game as the previous test, I had a full complement of perfect (all 20s) coaches and started with all coaches given all 5 schedules. I then reduced the schedules per coach by 1 at a time and reran the same season. (note that with 6 coaches and 5 schedules, there would always be a schedule with a different number of coaches from the rest. I made sure that this was the GK schedule and excluded the keepers from the measurements). The results that I got are in the graph below which appears to confirm the 3 schedules theory.

http://img67.imageshack.us/img67/8039/numberofschedulesgraph1e.jpg
This however had been a mistake on my part, as I had wanted to use coaches with 10 ratings. I retried with the coaches I had wanted, and to my surprise, I now had a straight line. After confirming both of these tests, I then ran through with 15 rated coaches and with 5 rated coaches and have posted the graph below

http://img67.imageshack.us/img67/2020/numberofschedulesgraph2n.jpg

This surprised me, as it appears that the better coaches flatten out earlier, the opposite of what I was expecting. I then ran through some tests with mixed abilities and varying numbers of coaches and have formed a hypothesis that the effectiveness of training is based on the coaches assigned to each schedule. You can add coaches to a schedule until the sum of their outfield coaching is 50. After that, adding coaches to that schedule will provide no benefit. Coaches can be assigned to as many schedules as you like and it will not impact on the effectiveness of the training program.

This magic number of 50 appears to also apply to goal keepers, although I have not tested that as thoroughly, all my evidence points to that being the case.

The testing has also revealed that a bad coach will still benefit the training. So a coach with a 5 rating in Coaching Outfield players and a coach with a 15 rating will perform roughly the same as 2 with 10 ratings or one with a 20 rating. I have also found that the Assistant has no more impact on training than a normal coach. The assistant does have an impact on Holiday mode and maybe the youth coming from the academy, but I’m not convinced that they do much else that a normal coach doesn’t.

What does benefit from a reduction in schedules are the coaches themselves. Like players, coaches (and assistants) do have a CA and PA and do improve (or reduce) their attributes over time. By reducing the number of schedules that a coach is assigned to, the more that coach will improve. It also appears to be a straight correlation. The fewer the number of schedules, the better the improvement, although age does also come into the equation (younger coaches improve more than older ones.

I will be looking next at how the coaching style (Fitness, General or Technical) influences the results of training.

Patinoz
13-03-12, 02:19 AM
Part Time v Full Time

This was a very difficult one to test as there is no editor that I have found which can change this part of the contract. Still using my AC Horsen team, I changed the players and club and started a new game with them all part time. I ran through a season a couple of times. We averaged a 1.67% increase in average for the players as opposed to 2.73% for full time players and staff. It has to be said that this is not a direct comparison as there are random factors when a new game is started. Interestingly part time players and full time staff made very little difference (1.74% improvement) while full time players with part time staff showed a 2.47% increase.
Conclusion is to make players full time before staff.

Size of squad

For this test, I signed up a lot of free players to max out the squad at 50 players. As I said above, the standard 25 man squad improved 2.73% over the course of a season. With a full squad, this went down to 2.69%. I don’t think that this is significant enough to make any judgement and is more likely related to the attributes of the players that I signed.

Does a bad coach make a good coach worse ?

Definitely not. Adding a coach always helps. Obviously the worse the coach, the less the improvement, but even a bad coach with a 5 rating for Coaching Outfield will improve your training.

Coaching Style

How will a Fitness coach get on teaching skills, and a Technical coach deal with fitness ? In fact it appears to make no difference. A Technical coach is just as good at improving fitness as a Fitness coach and vice versa. There is a difference for Goalkeeping coaches v Outfield and they can’t be swapped without having an impact.

What other attributes should I consider for a coach ?

Adaptability,Man Management, Motivating, Physiotherapy, Determination, Tactical Knowledge, Judging Ability, Judging Potential and Level of Discipline all made no significant difference. None of them do any harm, but I wouldn't pay any more for a coach with high values here over one without.

Working with Youngsters was interesting. There was a small improvement as this attribute increased, however it was not just the youngsters who did better. After digging into the detail, it appears that coaches with a high value here will benefit players not getting a regular game. So if you do like a large squad then this will make an impact.

Preferred formation and Preferred style made no significant difference

I think that this concludes my investigation into coaches and facilities. I’ll be looking at players, their attributes and their schedules next.

Patinoz
13-03-12, 02:20 AM
well, i ve tried another training exp. my results are shown below.

i ve created 3 defenders (def a, def b, def c) 3 midfielders (ort a, ort b, ort c) and 3 attackers.
totally 9 players. loaned 1 defender, 1 midfielder and 1 attacker to crewe, (control group) they are shown as yellow.
since we are mainly interested in the progress of youngsters, my created players are at the age of 20 with 100 ca and 160 pa
all my coaches are edited to have almost excellent stats.
at the 2nd try i edited their youngesters and discipline to set : 1, where they were 20 at the 1st and 3rd tries.
at the 3rd run i used an average training regime,
i guess youngesters and discipline for a coach are useless. also you should adjust the training for your players, the general is not so good.


http://i39.tinypic.com/zo8bid.jpg

Patinoz
13-03-12, 02:20 AM
Discipline was a strange one. From the tests that I did, a high level of discipline had a small detrimental effect on a players improvement. What I saw was an increase in the number of players reported for missing training and therefore not improving. When the coaches discipline was low, very few players were reported for missing training and although you can't tell, it would appear that if they are not reported, then they are training.
I have to say that the sample is small and the effect also small, but that is the trend that I saw.

Tactical Knowledge has a huge impact for your assistant if you are playing in holiday mode, but nothing significant for a coach. I could see virtualy no impact for Working with Youngsters.

With the possible exception of discipline, it does absolutely no harm to have high values for all attributes. I just have no evidence to convince me that they do any good.

AMC
13-03-12, 12:02 PM
Thanks for bringing this across, much appreciated.

GrandElf
09-06-12, 04:02 AM
Do u have any good training schedule that I can referred to?

Thanks

AMC
09-06-12, 07:06 PM
http://www.champman0102.co.uk/showthread.php?653-Training-routines

Retro
29-07-12, 04:44 PM
that was an awesome read, thanks very much Patinoz.

Fods
29-07-12, 11:21 PM
that was an awesome read, thanks very much Patinoz.

The Eejit :ok:

Retro
30-07-12, 02:15 PM
The Eejit :ok:

thought they were one and the same! Apologies. Thanks The Eejit.

tokyochojin
05-10-12, 06:41 AM
That was awesome, great detail!

weejonnie2
03-12-12, 02:32 PM
Can I just clarify this.

I assume that means that a coach of outfield ability 10 or less should be set to as many schedules as possible
(Fitness, Skill, Tactics, Shooting, Goalkeeping), one of 13 to 4, one of 17 or more to 3.

However the total ability assigned to each schedule need not exceed 50.

So if all the coaches have value 10 for outfield/ goalkeepers then the default settings (all to all) is pretty good and can only be improved by reducing the number of schedules for 5 coaches by 1. (presumably remove the fitness schedule from a technique specialist and vice versa), this gives the coaches time to improve.

Since there are more coaches than schedules, it should be possible to spread the cover over e.g. for 17s

FSTSG
XXXOO
OXXXO
OOXXX
XOOXX
XXOOX
This is free

And if playing in a lower league then the best option is to sign as many coaches as possible and (probably) put them on a 4-schedule and hope they improve. (I always try and sign an 'unproven' coach and keep them for a year or so to see if they improve noticeably)

Trip
03-12-12, 03:23 PM
The way to judge whether a low-rep coach is good is pretty simple actually.

You set the staff search screen to attributes and filter the following 8 so you can see only them: coaching outfield, coaching keepers, judging ability, judging potential, motivating, man handling, physiotherapy and tactics. Then you sort their man handling or motivation atts from lowest to highest. (Or tactics, or judging ability/potential, basically anything that's not coaching player/keepers.) What you're looking for is a coach whose coaching outfield and/or keeper atts stand out from the rest. For example, 4s, 5s or 6s for the irrelevant ones and a 9 or a 10 for one or two of the coaching atts. A coach with a combination of 4s, 5s or 6s + 9s or 10s (or more) has those 9s or 10s very high. It wouldn't matter if they don't add up to 50, because their intrinsic values are very high.

Generally, look for a difference of at least 3 between the irrelevent atts and the coaching atts and a low average for those filtered atts, let's say not much more than 7

aibietgidau
13-12-12, 04:57 PM
Which schedule (1 or 2) will help defenders improve defense attributes faster? Or the same?

Schedule 1:
Defender:
+ Fitness: Intensive
+ Tactic: Intensive
+ Shoot: None
+ Skill: Light

Schedule 2:
Defender:
+ Fitness: Intensive
+ Tactic: Intensive
+ Shoot: Medium
+ Skill: Medium

I prefer schedule 1, and the reason is: I want my defenders to use all CA points to improve defense attributes, and don't waste CA points to attack attributes.
I think a defender with Finish 1 & Tackle 20 is better than Finish 15 & Tackle 10, is it correct?

Bern
13-12-12, 05:14 PM
I think you're defenders will get too tired if you have two things set to 'Intensive'.

aibietgidau
14-12-12, 02:42 AM
No, it doesn't make them tired.
For a player, playing 1 match/week and an extra game in mid-week sometimes is fine for them (of course my players have enough Natural Fitness to handle it). My team have 22 players for rotation, so I don't worried much about that.

All I care is which schedule will help players improve faster and don't waste CA points into 'useless' attributes?

Trip
14-12-12, 09:15 AM
I'm still not convinced there's such a thing as different attributes costing CA-points though :)

scraible
12-01-13, 01:08 PM
Hire Jari Litmanen as a coach/assistant!

thom_raindog
06-02-13, 02:07 PM
Now, I know, this will sound like an absolutely dumb thing to ask, but: How can I improve my training facilities? Under "Finances & Info" / "General Info" it sais: "Adequate facilities", but there seems nothing to be clicked on.
I could not find anything in the pdf manual either. Any hints?

Dermotron
06-02-13, 02:28 PM
Ask the Board to improve them for you :ok:

weejonnie2
07-02-13, 04:09 PM
It's not dumb - it is just that you don't know.

Go to 'board confidence', 'board request', 'invest in young players' - you will be told whether the board think that the training facilities should be upgraded, it they think that they should be but don't have the funds, or if they agree with you.

If they agree then the training facilities will be upgraded between seasons. If they don't and you feel that they should be then you can issue an ultimatum. The result of that could be that you are sacked, that you are told it is the board's decision and they will overlook your outburst, or that they agree with you (most unlikely unless you have a good rep.)

Cam F
07-02-13, 04:17 PM
Wow, just noticed this, seems a little small compared to the old site where we all had various training regimes & downloads available (including the one I use).

Out of interest and seeing as the thread is no longer here, what do people reckon is the best training schedule?

I know some swear by general but i find players don't develop as much as other training schedules and using general over many years makes the players worse on a non patch game imo.

thom_raindog
07-02-13, 05:57 PM
Well, thank you. THAT was help full :)

Kingsley
07-02-13, 07:09 PM
Wow, just noticed this, seems a little small compared to the old site where we all had various training regimes & downloads available (including the one I use).

Out of interest and seeing as the thread is no longer here, what do people reckon is the best training schedule?

I know some swear by general but i find players don't develop as much as other training schedules and using general over many years makes the players worse on a non patch game imo.

Read the first post. What I said was that the following schedules affect these attributes .....

Fitness : Acceleration, Agility, Jumping, Pace, Stamina, Strength and Reflexes
Shooting : Finishing and Long Shots
Skill : Crossing, Dribbling, Heading, Passing, Set Pieces, Tackling and Technique
Tactics : Decisions, Marking, Off the Ball, Positioning and Teamwork
Goalkeeping : Handling

Aggresion, Anticipation, Balance, Bravery, Creativity, Determination, Flare, Influence and Work Rate as well as all the hidden attributes are not affected by any training.

So, for training, look at the player and see what they need to improve on most and give them more of that. So, if you have 2 strikers, one who needs to improve finishing and one who needs to improve heading, put them on different schedules - Shooting intensive and Skill intensive.

There is no magic program that is a one size fits all.

merkezekrem
09-02-13, 12:38 AM
It's good that "flare" attribute is not going up :ok:

Bunglefish
12-02-13, 10:15 PM
another great thread, this forum keeps getting better and better

merkezekrem
15-02-13, 11:10 PM
Fitness : Acceleration, Agility, Jumping, Pace, Stamina, Strength and Reflexes
Shooting : Finishing and Long Shots
Skill : Crossing, Dribbling, Heading, Passing, Set Pieces, Tackling and Technique
Tactics : Decisions, Marking, Off the Ball, Positioning and Teamwork
Goalkeeping : Handling

Aggresion, Anticipation, Balance, Bravery, Creativity, Determination, Flare, Influence and Work Rate as well as all the hidden attributes are not affected by any training.



Wish I can memorize this

JohnLocke
17-02-13, 07:30 PM
You could create an image with this info on it, then make the game display said image on the training screen.

Beardlegend
04-03-13, 11:27 AM
Ok, I haven't finished reading all the way through your experiments yet, but I have a theory as to why high discipline in a coach might result in more frequent training absentees...

Perhaps, the coach is "more strict" in reporting the incident to the manager? However, with training absentees there is always a problem with condition after the event, so maybe the theory is not sound.

Fods
04-03-13, 11:28 AM
http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_maaxhv6gQk1r0wqrdo1_500.jpg

Beardlegend
05-03-13, 08:31 AM
There appears to be no research into whether coaching mentality has any effect on players development. I swear by using fitness minded coaches for my fitness training and technical minded coaches to do my skill training... etc... I cycle my training so that players are usually on general but get moved onto a different regime if they start to lose some attributes.

In all of my current saves I have very few red training attributes. I wish I had the time to see if the mentality had any further effect, but other than that this seems pretty comprehensive.

ilovesanmarino
11-03-13, 12:55 AM
I know I'm new here but a lot of the information you have provided on coaching was explained fully in the CM3 stratergy guide, ie: which stats improve under which training schedule and which stats correspond to each training schedule.

merkezekrem
11-03-13, 11:00 AM
isnt the training types different in cm3 tho?

redknight1983
25-04-13, 01:37 PM
I just found this forum and haven't read all the topics yet,so forgive me if there is already a similar with mine collection.
I play cm0102 for several years and I always have the same problem. Almost all my players get slower. My last example is a striker with 20 accelaration and within one season lowered to 17.
This happens with almost every single player. What do I do wrong?

Dermotron
25-04-13, 01:59 PM
You playing with a Tapani patch applied? Haven't noticed it happening much without one.

If not,the other thing could be your training facilities have 'Awful' status players get worse.

And having them all on the same regime may not help also. Everything on medium means the same time is going into say defensive improvement (Tactics) as speed improve or maintenance (Fitness).


Fitness : Acceleration, Agility, Jumping, Pace, Stamina, Strength and Reflexes
Shooting : Finishing and Long Shots
Skill : Crossing, Dribbling, Heading, Passing, Set Pieces, Tackling and Technique
Tactics : Decisions, Marking, Off the Ball, Positioning and Teamwork
Goalkeeping : Handling

Kingsley
25-04-13, 02:09 PM
I just found this forum and haven't read all the topics yet,so forgive me if there is already a similar with mine collection.
I play cm0102 for several years and I always have the same problem. Almost all my players get slower. My last example is a striker with 20 accelaration and within one season lowered to 17.
This happens with almost every single player. What do I do wrong?

All of the fitness attributes are difficult and it is impossible to maintain at very high levels. With them - Acceleration, Agility, Jumping, Pace, Stamina, Strength and Reflexes - you need to have them training with Fitness set to intensive even to maintain high values. The problem with that is that the players are then too tired to actually be able to play. It does help if the players are getting a regular game (for everything, regular match time is better than any training), but there is no solution that I know of

redknight1983
25-04-13, 02:39 PM
Thank you guys for helping! I'll try some training advices that found here. I tried to put some players to intensive fitness but as Eejit says they get tired often. Thanks again :)

Kingsley
25-04-13, 09:22 PM
It has prompted me to think about another test. Training v Match time. I'll have a think about that.

ilovesanmarino
05-06-13, 11:08 PM
What I remember the old book saying was...
Adaptability = ability to learn foreign languages, no influence on training (and visible stat for staff but hidden for players)
coaching outfield = boost outfield player stats
coaching goalkeepers = boosts goalkeepers
Discipline = boost discipline training
Tactical knowledge = boost tactical training
coaching youngsters = boost skill training (which is therefore very misleading)
motivation/man management/determination = I cant remember if it said anything
I'm certain it didnt actually go into details of how/how much benefit it gave
the skills boosted by each training was laid out exactly as you have repeated meaning no change since the first game using the engine, therefore I realised the default attack training did naff all except for finishing and long shots (and penalties?) so I immediately put all outfield players in intensive skills training
similarly for goalkeepers, the training only boosts one stat, handling (and one-on-ones?) which is why as a default all goalkeepers go into the red in training, so as agility/jumping and most of all POSITIONING is key to a goalkeeper, I put them in intensive fitness training too.
Defenders for positioning/strength I also put in intensive fitness (positioning/off the ball are in literal terms interchangeable, within the game positioning refers to your DEFENSIVE positioning when not with the ball, off-the-ball is OFFENSIVE positioning when not with the ball)

as I said I chucked the book when I decided to bin the game, as I am now playing the game again I am going to buy another book off ebay, only the actual 01/02 edition and not the first version

also wasnt there a final CM3 engine game CM02/03 that was Xbox only?

Sam
05-06-13, 11:17 PM
yeah cm02/03 for the xbox was the last cm3 game. I liked it, was like 01/02 with some fixes and increased media. Was a bit harder as well. Only problem was it forced you to retire and end the game after 20 years.

Fods
05-06-13, 11:44 PM
Ive still got the book, stumbled across it a few months ago. Its in pristine condition, available to the highest bidder. Also been signed by To Madeira

ilovesanmarino
05-06-13, 11:56 PM
the thing I remember most about the book is all the annoying quotes from Keegan and Robson

ajra21
06-06-13, 07:18 PM
recently, i've found that many of my young players (ages 15-16) have been struggling to get 100% conditioning during the first three or four months of the season. the only way i've managed to overcome this is have them doing minimal training.

Sam
06-06-13, 07:35 PM
recently, i've found that many of my young players (ages 15-16) have been struggling to get 100% conditioning during the first three or four months of the season. the only way i've managed to overcome this is have them doing minimal training.

If I ever have a problem with players not being able to reach 100% fitness, I put all training down to minimal, and fitness training to intense.

ilovesanmarino
13-06-13, 08:28 PM
ok I went and bought the book and it says...

Fitness : Acceleration, Agility, Jumping, Pace, Stamina, Strength and Reflexes +natural fitness
Shooting : Finishing and Long Shots +penalties
Skill : Crossing, Dribbling, Heading, Passing, Set Pieces, Tackling and Technique +corners, preferred foot, free kicks -set pieces (this isnt true, as you proved Set Pieces are included)
Tactics : Decisions, Marking, Off the Ball, Positioning and Teamwork
Goalkeeping : Handling +one on ones

bruno1982
14-06-13, 09:28 PM
hello

does the book speak about staff?

thanks

ilovesanmarino
14-06-13, 10:15 PM
yes, but it doesnt offer anything too useful I'm afraid. Research already done here by clever people has revealed a lot of important stuff and while the book says what does what, it in no way gives details of how much which is something I myself would test if I was half as clever as the researchers already. Also I am lazy.

Also the book makes a few slight contradictions which what it says.

Adaptability
it says this is used by players to learn foreign languages, and here it says it is the same for staff. However elsewhere it says for Assistant Manager (AM) it is also used to TEACH foreign languages to players.

Coaching goalkeepers
bonus to training goalkeepers, it implies but is not specific that this is players of GK position and not the training routine, meaning this stat will boost all goalkeeper stats, but obviously this depends on training routine, and in effect it would be almost identical anyway

coaching outfield players
bonus to to coaching SW/D/DM/M/AM/F/S positions ("the greatest single impact on the effectiveness of your training")

Determination
bonus to coaching + number of players found scouting

judging player ability
scouts accurately report players with high CA

judging player potential
scouts accurately report players with high PA

Level of discipline
bonus to fitness training, bonus to physiotherapy

man management
bonus to all training and physiotherapy

motivating
bonus to all training and physiotherapy

physiotherapy
treating injured players

tactical knowledge
bonus to tactics training

working with youngsters
bonus to skills training (+AM only, making young players increase CA to PA)

coaching style/preferred formation/preferred style
only used by managers

the AM controls the reserves so he acts as a manager, including judging CA/PA to pick players, but thats all rather irrelevant isnt it?

it says nothing about scouts nationality, which I have heard many people use.

what is also odd is that Physios in the game only have adaptability, determination, discipline and skills as variables, all others including man-management are always the same as each other and presumably based on the physios CA, but the book says it is not skills that they use but man-management.

Sam
14-06-13, 11:03 PM
Does motivating not keep player morale higher on average during the course of a season? I always imagined it did.

ilovesanmarino
15-06-13, 12:00 AM
the description of what it does is very vague. I expect you are right, motivation makes players have higher morale, higher morale means they perform and train better, it makes sense, but It does not explicitely state this.

Cam F
12-08-13, 10:09 PM
Even after all these years i'm still a noob when it comes to training & can't be arsed reading 25 pages of training tips so always stuck to my usual training schedules but anyway I still did but read this page - http://champman2002.stormpages.com/training.htm and then changed my coaches to the below and boom what a difference in my players developing :D http://imageshack.us/a/img822/2701/zf4a.png

bruno1982
13-08-13, 08:43 PM
cam, did you also use the training show in the page or just the distribution of coaches?
thanks

Felix
13-08-13, 08:47 PM
cam, did you also use the training show in the page or just the distribution of coaches?
thanks

I didn't get what he meant, he wrote that the 8 point-rule is quite good but isn't his own schedule at like 10 points? Since I've always done the same with my training I'm also very thankful for any advice!

Cam F
14-08-13, 10:16 AM
cam, did you also use the training show in the page or just the distribution of coaches?
thanks Just the distribution of coaches.

phil_jackson
21-08-13, 09:45 PM
Very interesting surveys here. I had no idea about it, I was in the dark for all those years regarding training :doh: Thank you Patinoz for showing us the light :yo:

MVP
28-08-13, 06:02 PM
The way to judge whether a low-rep coach is good is pretty simple actually.

You set the staff search screen to attributes and filter the following 8 so you can see only them: coaching outfield, coaching keepers, judging ability, judging potential, motivating, man handling, physiotherapy and tactics. Then you sort their man handling or motivation atts from lowest to highest. (Or tactics, or judging ability/potential, basically anything that's not coaching player/keepers.) What you're looking for is a coach whose coaching outfield and/or keeper atts stand out from the rest. For example, 4s, 5s or 6s for the irrelevant ones and a 9 or a 10 for one or two of the coaching atts. A coach with a combination of 4s, 5s or 6s + 9s or 10s (or more) has those 9s or 10s very high. It wouldn't matter if they don't add up to 50, because their intrinsic values are very high.

Generally, look for a difference of at least 3 between the irrelevent atts and the coaching atts and a low average for those filtered atts, let's say not much more than 7

I'm trying to get my head around this post but keep failing.

Can someone please explain? Thanks

ladsar
08-09-13, 02:13 PM
This is excellent work Patinoz, learned a lot reading through all of your posts!
However, after reading through all this posts I still couldn't find an answer to something I've discovered in all of my games for as long as I can remember. It's about the jumping skill, I wrote something about it in an earlier version of this CM0102 site, but didn't get any good answers I'm afraid. The "magic" number is 14... When a player starts a new game with 14 at jumping, it's very hard to improve this. I like all of my DC to have at least 15 at jumping, that's how I discovered this. So I decided to explore this during two seasons on holiday mode. The players I chose for this test:
Phil Jones, Yanga-Mbiwa, Juan Forlin, Luis Gustavo, Agger, Lescott, Jagielka, Steven Taylor, Koscielny, Dante, Heitinga, Bartra, Astori, Huth and Senderos.
All these players starts with 14 at jumping with the Septemer 2012 update. They all have at least PA 150 and it should be possible for some of these players to improve their jumping skill. After the first season only Forlin, Senderos and Astori managed to reach 15 at jumping. After two seasons nothing changed, Forlin, Astori and Senderos still are the only players with 15 at jumping. The rest of the players I mentioned remains at 14. After two seasons they should improve more than that based on your research in this thread. I've tried different training schedules but it doesn't solve the jumping skill issue for me. Have you noticed this when you tested different training methods?

English is not my native language, so I'm sorry for mistakes ... Anyway, I hope you understand what I mean. I'm really curious to find out if someone else has discovered the same issue.

1369phil
08-09-13, 02:35 PM
Sooooo....... The Tsigalko vs RVN thread taught us about key "skill" attributes and Trip's list on the "Good Players on ODB" thread showed us that one single attribute at a high level (of the skill variety) could (with some good/reasonable physical and mental stats) make a great player and other skill attributes at a higher level will make the player less effective (for example a striker with good off the ball stat - say "18" and a low tackling stat say "5" will perform better than the a striker with the same number "18" and with a higher tackling attribute - say "15")

With this excellent thread also in mind :

"Fitness : Acceleration, Agility, Jumping, Pace, Stamina, Strength and Reflexes
Shooting : Finishing and Long Shots
Skill : Crossing, Dribbling, Heading, Passing, Set Pieces, Tackling and Technique
Tactics : Decisions, Marking, Off the Ball, Positioning and Teamwork
Goalkeeping : Handling

Aggresion, Anticipation, Balance, Bravery, Creativity, Determination, Flare, Influence and Work Rate as well as all the hidden attributes are not affected by any training. Some may change over time, but this would be outside of any training regime."


How could you best train a player to keep the good areas "good" and stop the poor areas improving.

Suarez7
19-09-13, 11:11 AM
confused... :noidea:

Can anyone explain this in a basic way? I read somewhere that you shouldn't assign a coach to more than 2 or 3 (max) schedules & that the default schedules work fine but the posts here seam to suggest otherwise?

What is the 50 point thing all about? is it just literally making sure that your coaches abilities for each type (fitness, tactics, shooting, skills & keeper) is not above 50?

Kingsley
26-09-13, 12:13 PM
confused... :noidea:

Can anyone explain this in a basic way? I read somewhere that you shouldn't assign a coach to more than 2 or 3 (max) schedules & that the default schedules work fine but the posts here seam to suggest otherwise?

What is the 50 point thing all about? is it just literally making sure that your coaches abilities for each type (fitness, tactics, shooting, skills & keeper) is not above 50?

What I disproved was the theory that coaches should only be assigned to a maximum of 3 schedules. What you want, for any schedule, is to have the sum of the coaches outfield attributes to be 50. Any more and they are being wasted.

Suarez7
26-09-13, 09:37 PM
What I disproved was the theory that coaches should only be assigned to a maximum of 3 schedules. What you want, for any schedule, is to have the sum of the coaches outfield attributes to be 50. Any more and they are being wasted.

Thank you sir - Now i get it!! :high5:

rafafloripa
09-10-13, 10:20 AM
Amazing research work here! Has anyone done a similar investigation on the intensity level of training?

AgentEves
17-10-13, 08:09 PM
Coaches should only be assigned to 3 schedules …. Fact or fiction ?

http://img67.imageshack.us/img67/8039/numberofschedulesgraph1e.jpg

http://img67.imageshack.us/img67/2020/numberofschedulesgraph2n.jpg

Can I just clarify something here... do you have your x-axis backwards?

Because that graph says that the more schedules you give each coach, the better impact it has on your players.

So... basically... spreading your coaches out over 5 schedules has a better effect on player improvement than having 1 coach per schedule... which can't possibly make sense?

Sorry - I don't mean to sound like I'm criticising - this article is great, and really really helpful. I just want to make sure I understand it properly!

faz44
18-10-13, 09:59 AM
Sooooo....... The Tsigalko vs RVN thread taught us about key "skill" attributes and Trip's list on the "Good Players on ODB" thread showed us that one single attribute at a high level (of the skill variety) could (with some good/reasonable physical and mental stats) make a great player and other skill attributes at a higher level will make the player less effective (for example a striker with good off the ball stat - say "18" and a low tackling stat say "5" will perform better than the a striker with the same number "18" and with a higher tackling attribute - say "15")

With this excellent thread also in mind :

"Fitness : Acceleration, Agility, Jumping, Pace, Stamina, Strength and Reflexes
Shooting : Finishing and Long Shots
Skill : Crossing, Dribbling, Heading, Passing, Set Pieces, Tackling and Technique
Tactics : Decisions, Marking, Off the Ball, Positioning and Teamwork
Goalkeeping : Handling

Aggresion, Anticipation, Balance, Bravery, Creativity, Determination, Flare, Influence and Work Rate as well as all the hidden attributes are not affected by any training. Some may change over time, but this would be outside of any training regime."


How could you best train a player to keep the good areas "good" and stop the poor areas improving.

Simply put, you can't. By improving a player's dribbling, you also increase their tackling. By improving their movement, you also improve positioning and marking. If you can find a 16 year old defensive player with reasonable defensive skills but atrocious attacking skills, you can create a half-decent defender. Irrespective, I love your post, it sums up what you can and can't achieve with coaching in the game. My research on coaching was a dead-end but it's a very random part of the program.

Kingsley
19-10-13, 09:25 AM
Can I just clarify something here... do you have your x-axis backwards?

Because that graph says that the more schedules you give each coach, the better impact it has on your players.

So... basically... spreading your coaches out over 5 schedules has a better effect on player improvement than having 1 coach per schedule... which can't possibly make sense?

Sorry - I don't mean to sound like I'm criticising - this article is great, and really really helpful. I just want to make sure I understand it properly!

It is about 3 years since I wrote this stuff and quite honestly I'm buggered if I can remember what I was trying to prove. I've read that section several times and I think that you are right. Either the axis is the wrong way round or it should be number of coaches per schedule. Anyway, I'm sure that you get the gist of it.

bruno1982
10-11-13, 03:51 PM
Eejit, don't know if you've posted...but, can you please show the schedule that normally you use?
thank you

Kingsley
11-11-13, 01:33 PM
Actually, I ignore most of what I said. I have all coaches doing everything and have schedules with one routine on intensive and the others on medium. I then put players in the category depending on the attributes I want to improve.

So, if I have a striker that needs to improve his heading, I would put him in the intensive skill group. A midfielder that needs better teamwork goes into intensive tactics.

To do it right, you would need to keep reviewing and changing all the time and I'm too lazy to get that worked up about it.

Fabbs
11-11-13, 02:45 PM
Actually, I ignore most of what I said. I have all coaches doing everything and have schedules with one routine on intensive and the others on medium. I then put players in the category depending on the attributes I want to improve.

So, if I have a striker that needs to improve his heading, I would put him in the intensive skill group. A midfielder that needs better teamwork goes into intensive tactics.

To do it right, you would need to keep reviewing and changing all the time and I'm too lazy to get that worked up about it.

This is exactly what I do for the same reason :lol: with one correction:

for goalkeeping: goalkeeping INTensive, shooting NONE, the rest goes MEDium

other areas: main routine INTensive respectively (fit for fit, skill for skill etc.); goalkeeping NONE and the rest MEDium.

Since giving more than 3 areas of training doesn't actually tire your coaches down, you can order them to train everybody on everything. It's a waste, because in every area you'll be probably much over 50, but since it does no harm either, who cares?

Great work, Eejit! Thanks a lot!:ok:

Kingsley
11-11-13, 02:58 PM
I should add that teenagers who are not part of the first team squad get intensive everything. Sort out the men from the boys !

bruno1982
11-11-13, 10:22 PM
the reason I ask is because i'm giving medium on everything except is shooting and goalkeeping wich is none, believe it or not i'm having green numbers in every areas...
also, is just me or after some years the opponent always have a super keeper? in every game the opponent keeper as 9 and 10's...

thanks eejit

faz44
11-11-13, 11:36 PM
Apropos of nothing, I always set fitness and goalkeeping to high as the only two goalkeeping attributes you can affect are handling and reflexes.

Pokahontas
29-11-13, 04:26 PM
I don't know if anyone mentioned this yet,
when you retrain positions for a particular player, it shifts the focus of his attributes quicker (along with the correct intensive training)

For instance, in the previous update I retrained Frimpong as a DR, it turned him into a 20's superfreak in less than 6 months, with high averages at DR and super averages at DMC

Another obvious impression from playing the game for years (and I believe anyone knows this) is players 16-20 improve more at the turn of the season if they have had a lot of games. Players with no games usually don't improve and even become decrepit, but there are exceptions, some players' attributes will fly higher and higher in short periods and only with training :confused: (possibly the guys with more potential)

Profa
28-03-14, 01:02 AM
I am currently playing English league with 4-0-3-1-2 tactic(no wib/wob), no real players and with young undeveloped team.Therefore it is not a problem to score a goal, but not to concede one every time opponent shoot at my goal.After four games and four wins, goal difference is 19:10, most goals scored, but also most conceded.
I don't know how to attach picture in this forum?

Fods
28-03-14, 01:05 AM
:lol:

That is funny

Dermotron
28-03-14, 05:02 PM
Here is how to post a screenshot/image http://www.champman0102.co.uk/showthread.php?t=318

Topofthekop
05-05-14, 03:02 PM
Quick Question with regards to Managers and Coaches. With regards to the hidden Value 'Patience' does this effect the way a manager or coach is with his players and staff. Or does it only effect the way a Chairman is with his managers?

Dermotron
05-05-14, 03:15 PM
Patience is for Chairman only Toppo

A great piece of research here by Sam http://www.champman0102.co.uk/showthread.php?t=3317&highlight=chairman

Topofthekop
05-05-14, 06:27 PM
Patience is for Chairman only Toppo

A great piece of research here by Sam http://www.champman0102.co.uk/showthread.php?t=3317&highlight=chairman


I had kinda guessed mate, but glad your able to confirm that I was correct :)

guivi
06-05-14, 07:47 PM
Hello from argentina, first of all i want to say sorry about mi english.

i was playing with river plate and i wanted to change position of the FC driussi to an AMC. Because i have 2 other strikers like cavenaghi and Teo Gutierrez.

The problem is that the position doesn' t change. i was playing al least an year and a half an nothing.

Is it indispensable to be an amc to play well in the amc place on tactics? how can i change the position of the players?????

Thanks for the help

Topofthekop
07-05-14, 01:35 AM
Hello from argentina, first of all i want to say sorry about mi english.

i was playing with river plate and i wanted to change position of the FC driussi to an AMC. Because i have 2 other strikers like cavenaghi and Teo Gutierrez.

The problem is that the position doesn' t change. i was playing al least an year and a half an nothing.

Is it indispensable to be an amc to play well in the amc place on tactics? how can i change the position of the players?????

Thanks for the help


A FC can play the AMC position without the need to have it say AMC.. I play Suarez in that position behind Sturridge and he is fantastic there ;)

Fods
07-05-14, 04:12 AM
I do the same with Rooney... FC is spot on as Toppo says for AMC position

guivi
07-05-14, 08:50 PM
thanks a lot!!!!

Marianov6
24-06-14, 03:22 AM
hi guys

i have a question regarding training

basically its two questions lol

when a player gets a point at some ability, can he get more if i leave him there for much longer? for example, i added a player on fitness, he got one point in acceleration, one in strength and one in stamina. I left him there for the next month but he didn't got anything else. Same for the next month also. Is there a limit which i will never know? If i leave him there (lets say for a year) will he get any more points? (that's actually the first question)

second question is, once the player will get point(s), should i move him right away to another training program or should i let him there to get more points? Actually, i'm asking if my player will take quicker points by moving him after he got points from one training to another (from fitness to skills for example)

Dermotron
24-06-14, 09:36 PM
1. Check has his Current Ability (CA) maxed out (maybe use CMScout)

2. See point #1. If he is maxed out he can't really gain anymore. Sometimes gaining a point in one area will result in a reduction in others, hence some guys that start with lots of 20's end up with lots of 18's and 19's as other attributes raise and so on (this thread (http://www.champman0102.co.uk/showthread.php?t=1598) might help understand how CA works)

Marianov6
26-06-14, 12:51 AM
Thanx for answering first of all

well, CMScout can show only his total points (current and max) but not individually. So, i was wondering if my player only at acceleration can get more points. And CMScout says that he still can learn but he is not getting anything else in strength no matter how long will let him there.

For my current season i changed my coached (trying to figure something new) i change my training routine and what is weird (for me) is that, defenders for example, some will get marking and some will get not. How is it possible same coaches, same training center same match practice and they learn different things? lol that training has many many secrets!

One last question also if possible. Which coach is responsible for training in "shooting"? The rest areas are easy, discipline for fitness, tactics for tactics, youngsters for skill etc etc but haven't figure out which coaching abilities are for shooting..

thanx for the threat also, i skipped that one as i play the updated version where there is no Tsigalko

Cristian
05-08-14, 09:55 PM
Hello--is there any way I could get permission to translate this into Spanish for my CM0102 Spanish forum--giving credit to Eejit and anyone else needed of course?

ilovesanmarino
20-08-14, 07:37 PM
What does this mean???

http://i.imgur.com/lsG8P91.jpg

I mean, what does it really mean. I presume it means the player must have high proffessionalism, but does he really put in good effort, checking the training doesn't seem to show any stat increase?

Also what does "...thinks is developing into a player of real quality" mean in real terms, does this mean the player has had a jump in his CA and stats?

mbillups
21-08-14, 01:16 PM
What does this mean???

http://i.imgur.com/lsG8P91.jpg

I mean, what does it really mean. I presume it means the player must have high proffessionalism, but does he really put in good effort, checking the training doesn't seem to show any stat increase?

Also what does "...thinks is developing into a player of real quality" mean in real terms, does this mean the player has had a jump in his CA and stats?

from my experience I'd say the "glowing reference" may just refer to a high consistency level (which you should not see in the game as it is one of the hidden attributes). As for the "developing player" I believe it relates to a progression in CA vs PA values, like you guessed. though I never really bothered on CA/PA thing, I think attributes distribution is far more important.

merkezekrem
21-08-14, 04:49 PM
Can you train a SC to be a FC? or do they become M/S C?

AtomicAnt
23-08-14, 01:38 AM
Can you train a SC to be a FC? or do they become M/S C?

Never tried it myself, but I suppose if his new pos is "attacking midfielder" he will eventually become FC. If it's set to "midfielder" he will become M/SC.

The players who are FRC, FLC or FRLC can deceive you sometimes, they might have 1 set as attacking midfielder, and would not do well in a supporting role. An FC has more than 13 (I think) set as attacking midfielder and will perform better as a trequartista.

Dermotron
25-08-14, 10:55 AM
15+ for Free Role and 15+ for Attacker will produce FC. 10+ for AM +10 for FR and 15+ for A will do the same

calderon
16-10-14, 12:12 PM
pictures of dead :drama:

JohnLocke
20-02-15, 12:45 PM
Not sure if these are known or not but the following is the definitive answer (I'm 99.99% sure) to which skills are improved by each type of training.

Fitness: acceleration, agility, jumping, naturalFitness, pace, reflexes, stamina, strength
Tactics: decisions, marking, offTheBall, teamWork, positioning
Shooting: finishing, longShots, penalties
Skills: corners, crossing, dribbling, freeKicks, heading, passing, tackling, technique, throwIns
Goalkeeping: handling, oneOnOnes

faz44
24-02-15, 04:53 PM
Fitness doesn't change anything consistently other than stamina.

hollaplaya
18-10-15, 07:48 PM
What about creativity? Can it be improved or doesn't change at all, even if not by training?

probs
23-10-15, 12:03 AM
It was said that creativity is not affected by training schedule.

hollaplaya
23-10-15, 01:43 PM
It was said that creativity is not affected by training schedule.

Yes guess not.

However it is naturally increased.

RashardLewis
27-10-15, 05:13 PM
best schedule for 3.6.98 ?

Fods
29-10-15, 04:52 AM
best schedule for 3.6.98 ?

Lots of Routines in here:

Training Routines (http://www.champman0102.co.uk/showthread.php?t=653)

trevorplatt
04-11-15, 01:19 AM
It was said that creativity is not affected by training schedule.

I believe Creativity improves with game time. It's doesn't improve using any of the training schedules.


best schedule for 3.6.98 ?

I use this to good effect:

Goalkeepers: Fitness = Medium, Tactics = Medium, Shooting = None, Skills = Medium, Goalkeeping = Intensive, New Position = Goalkeeper.

Defenders: Fitness = Medium, Tactics = Intensive, Shooting = None, Skills = Intensive, New Position = Defender.

All Midfield positions: Fitness = Medium, Tactics = Medium, Shooting = Medium, Skills = Intensive, New position = [Defensive Midfielders = Defensive Midfield; Midfielders = Midfielder; Attacking Midfielders = Attacking Midfielder].

Forwards: Fitness = Medium, Tactics = Medium, Shooting = Intensive, Skills = Medium, New Position = Forward.

Notes:
*There is no evidence that selecting "new position" actually helps, but it certainly doesn't hurt.
*Employ 3 physios, the cheapest you can find, they slightly reduce the occurrences of injuries and reduce the length of injuries, regardless of their reputation (when they ask for higher wages at the end of their contract sack them and hire another) - you'll need them with your Defenders on two Intensive regimes.
*Read this! (http://www.champman0102.co.uk/showthread.php?t=714)
Basically your coaches need to total 50 in each training regime column, eg:

Coach_____OF___GK___Fit__Tac__Shoot_Skills__GK
Bond______17___15___17___17___17____17____X
Spackman__16___16___16___16___X____16____16
Trevivian___13___14___X___13___13____13____14
Bibbo______14___16___14___X___14____14____16
Henchoz___16___16___16___16___16____X____16

Total:_______________63___62___60____60____62

Where OF is Coaching Outfield Player; GK is Coaching Goalkeepers; X that coach doesn't train that regime. [Edit: the table is out of alignment, but if you write it out it should make sense.]
Again, the reputation of the coach is irrelevant, so go for cheap ones with high stats. Coaching Youngsters might be useful but there is no evidence that any other stats are.
Hope this makes sense. Good luck.

spence17r
28-11-15, 12:53 PM
Forgive me for being an idiot but..
i still cant get this "the answer to training is 50" this is repeated throughout the forum
does this mean the coaches attributes which your using in your regime has to be over 50? or as close to 50 as possible.

Also Do you determine how good your coach is at training fitness and shooting from there coaching outfield players stat

Romano338
28-11-15, 01:00 PM
I think 50 is optimal. Over 50 it decreases a bit.
But I'm not really sure. I don't really understand that thing.

Tom cant fly
29-11-15, 10:10 PM
Basically, for each training regime you have you can select which coaches over see each regime. Go to the training page and then in the top right area of the screen select the "coaches" icon. It will then display all your coaches and show that all your coaches participate in every regime. So say you have 4 coaches who have COACHING OUTFIELD stat of Coach A is 14, Coach B is 13, Coach C is 17 and Coach D is 18. You dont want these stats to go over 50 per regime, as anything over 50 is wasted. So for example Coach B 13 and Coach C 17 with Coach D 18, would give you 48 for that regime. if you select coach A 14 as well, you would 62. So write down all your coaches names and there Coaching outfield stats. Then for each training regime deselect a coach or 2 (depending on how many you have) so that all the selected coaches in that regimes CO stats are 50 or less when added together.


i hope that makes sense?

aim-11
13-12-15, 05:29 AM
Not sure this is the right thread to ask. Recommendations for good coaches and scouts?

Fods
13-12-15, 05:35 AM
If you read the last few posts you should be able to search for exactly what is a good coach/scout :ok:

ajra21
20-12-15, 04:26 PM
Basically, for each training regime you have you can select which coaches over see each regime. Go to the training page and then in the top right area of the screen select the "coaches" icon. It will then display all your coaches and show that all your coaches participate in every regime. So say you have 4 coaches who have COACHING OUTFIELD stat of Coach A is 14, Coach B is 13, Coach C is 17 and Coach D is 18. You dont want these stats to go over 50 per regime, as anything over 50 is wasted. So for example Coach B 13 and Coach C 17 with Coach D 18, would give you 48 for that regime. if you select coach A 14 as well, you would 62. So write down all your coaches names and there Coaching outfield stats. Then for each training regime deselect a coach or 2 (depending on how many you have) so that all the selected coaches in that regimes CO stats are 50 or less when added together.

i hope that makes sense?

had no idea this was the case. all my coaches have 18 or better for the coaching atts. so much for getting a group of the best coaches. thanks.

teh1234
18-01-16, 05:24 PM
What impact on training club reputation has? I ran some tests and it appears to be quite strong. Dunno if it's related to player unhappiness.

Best training grounds
Best coaches
Player's scout rating: 60% (determination = 20)
CA/PA 97/200

Club reputation: 10000
1 season: 70% 136/200
2 season: 72% 148/200
3 season: 76% 173/200
4 season: 81% 195/200

Club reputation: ~0-1000
1 season: 65% 125/200
2 season: 66% 126/200
3 season: 71% 141/200
4 season: 71% 141/200
5 season: 73% 157/200
6 season: 74% 160/200
7 season: 77% 168/200
8 season: 78% 172/200
9 season: 79% 173/200
10 season: 79% 175/200

Nickcm0102
20-01-16, 10:58 PM
Quick question re. coaching. If I have 5 coaches, including assistant manager, and five training schedules, does that mean that each coach should be assigned to that particular schedule only?

Whyme
05-04-16, 04:50 AM
I believe Creativity improves with game time. It's doesn't improve using any of the training schedules.



I use this to good effect:

Goalkeepers: Fitness = Medium, Tactics = Medium, Shooting = None, Skills = Medium, Goalkeeping = Intensive, New Position = Goalkeeper.

Defenders: Fitness = Medium, Tactics = Intensive, Shooting = None, Skills = Intensive, New Position = Defender.

All Midfield positions: Fitness = Medium, Tactics = Medium, Shooting = Medium, Skills = Intensive, New position = [Defensive Midfielders = Defensive Midfield; Midfielders = Midfielder; Attacking Midfielders = Attacking Midfielder].

Forwards: Fitness = Medium, Tactics = Medium, Shooting = Intensive, Skills = Medium, New Position = Forward.

Notes:
*There is no evidence that selecting "new position" actually helps, but it certainly doesn't hurt.
*Employ 3 physios, the cheapest you can find, they slightly reduce the occurrences of injuries and reduce the length of injuries, regardless of their reputation (when they ask for higher wages at the end of their contract sack them and hire another) - you'll need them with your Defenders on two Intensive regimes.
*Read this! (http://www.champman0102.co.uk/showthread.php?t=714)
Basically your coaches need to total 50 in each training regime column, eg:

Coach OF GK Fit Tac Shoot Skills GK
Bond 17 15 17 17 17 17 X
Spackman 16 16 16 16 X 16 16
Trevivian 13 14 X 13 13 13 14
Bibbo 14 16 14 X 14 14 16
Henchoz 16 16 16 16 16 X 16

Total: 63 62 60 60 62

Where OF is Coaching Outfield Player; GK is Coaching Goalkeepers; X that coach doesn't train that regime. [Edit: the table is out of alignment, but if you write it out it should make sense.]
Again, the reputation of the coach is irrelevant, so go for cheap ones with high stats. Coaching Youngsters might be useful but there is no evidence that any other stats are.
Hope this makes sense. Good luck.

So if coaches need to total 50 in each training regime column, does this mean intrinsic values for coaches are useless?

From what I'm reading 3 coaches with a combined total of 50 who have a combined intrinsic value of say 70 will be more useful than 3 coaches with a combined total of 40 but have a combined intrinsic value of 200.

Whyme
09-07-16, 01:30 PM
So if coaches need to total 50 in each training regime column, does this mean intrinsic values for coaches are useless?

From what I'm reading 3 coaches with a combined total of 50 who have a combined intrinsic value of say 70 will be more useful than 3 coaches with a combined total of 40 but have a combined intrinsic value of 200.

Anyone?

JLa
22-07-17, 11:44 AM
I have a few players that don't seem to respond to training. Eg. I have them on medium tactics and still their positioning drops (it really should not drop on medium!). Most players are all in the green, but a few stand out with red numbers. Do you know what causes this, and if there is anything I can do to fix it? Or should I simply get rid of the player and find another?

o0opaulo0o
24-07-17, 12:10 AM
I have a few players that don't seem to respond to training. Eg. I have them on medium tactics and still their positioning drops (it really should not drop on medium!). Most players are all in the green, but a few stand out with red numbers. Do you know what causes this, and if there is anything I can do to fix it? Or should I simply get rid of the player and find another?

Sell those players. Their determination is low and will not improve with training.

Kingsley
24-07-17, 07:39 AM
More likely Professionalism (a hidden attribute) rather than anything else. This is the attribute that says how hard a player trains. If it is very low, they will miss training sessions.

Positioning is helped by the Defensive training regime

trevorplatt
09-09-17, 08:49 PM
So if coaches need to total 50 in each training regime column, does this mean intrinsic values for coaches are useless?

From what I'm reading 3 coaches with a combined total of 50 who have a combined intrinsic value of say 70 will be more useful than 3 coaches with a combined total of 40 but have a combined intrinsic value of 200.

I don't know anything about Intrinsic Values for Coaches, but according to the research by Kingsley (The Eejit) the most effective training regime is one where the Coaching Outfield/Coatching Goalkeepers add's up to 50.
As far as I'm aware no one has looked at intrinsic values for coaches. Kingsley's research also shows that Coaching Outfield Players and Coaching Goalkeepers are the only relevant stats (although high discipline can have a small negetive effect).


By the way, some of the missing data for the fist post where the images no longer display:

Training Facilities:
Awful = approx. 1.5 % Player Improvement.
Needs Investment = approx. 2.0 % Player Improvement.
Good = approx. 1.8 % Player Improvement.
Excellent = approx. 1.8 % Player Improvement.
Top Facilities = approx. 2.3 % Player Improvement.


Average Player Improvement per number of coaches:
No Assistant Manager (AM) or Coaches = 0.00 %
AM + 0 Coaches = 0.29 %
AM + 1 Coach = 0.82 %
AM + 2 Coaches = 1.72 %
AM + 3 Coaches = 2.21 %
AM + 4 Coaches = 2.67 %
AM + 5 Coaches = 2.70 %


Average Player Improvement per no of Schedules per Coach:

5 Schedules per Coach:
Coaches rating 20 = 2.74 %
Coaches rating 15 = 2.74 %
Coaches rating 10 = 2.74 %
Coaches rating 5 = 1.4 %

4 Schedules per Coach:
Coaches rating 20 = 2.70 %
Coaches rating 15 = 2.70 %
Coaches rating 10 = 2.25 %
Coaches rating 5 = 1.0 %

3 Schedules per Coach:
Coaches rating 20 = 2.72 %
Coaches rating 15 = 2.4 %
Coaches rating 10 = 1.7 %
Coaches rating 5 = 0.5 %

2 Schedules per Coach:
Coaches rating 20 = 2.11 %
Coaches rating 15 = 1.6 %
Coaches rating 10 = 1.0 %
Coaches rating 5 = 0.1 %

1 Schedules per Coach:
Coaches rating 20 = 1.01 %
Coaches rating 15 = 0.4 %
Coaches rating 10 = 0.2 %
Coaches rating 5 = 0.1 %

If someone wants to add it to the original poet that could be useful.

terzino sinistro
12-04-18, 06:24 PM
Average Player Improvement per no of Schedules per Coach:

5 Schedules per Coach:
Coaches rating 20 = 2.74 %
Coaches rating 15 = 2.74 %
Coaches rating 10 = 2.74 %
Coaches rating 5 = 1.4 %

4 Schedules per Coach:
Coaches rating 20 = 2.70 %
Coaches rating 15 = 2.70 %
Coaches rating 10 = 2.25 %
Coaches rating 5 = 1.0 %

3 Schedules per Coach:
Coaches rating 20 = 2.72 %
Coaches rating 15 = 2.4 %
Coaches rating 10 = 1.7 %
Coaches rating 5 = 0.5 %

2 Schedules per Coach:
Coaches rating 20 = 2.11 %
Coaches rating 15 = 1.6 %
Coaches rating 10 = 1.0 %
Coaches rating 5 = 0.1 %

1 Schedules per Coach:
Coaches rating 20 = 1.01 %
Coaches rating 15 = 0.4 %
Coaches rating 10 = 0.2 %
Coaches rating 5 = 0.1 %

If someone wants to add it to the original poet that could be useful.

Does this include the AM? Meaning, 50 all coaches combined + AM or 50 including AM?

Also, if you have a GK maxed out in handling and one-on-ones, should you still keep training him in GK on light? Will his handling and one-on-one attributes begin to deteriorate if you stop training him in them altogether?

terzino sinistro
12-04-18, 08:17 PM
15+ for Free Role and 15+ for Attacker will produce FC. 10+ for AM +10 for FR and 15+ for A will do the same

Where do you see stats for free role?

thong765
10-07-18, 04:19 PM
I would like to discuss the training patterns of all of you.
Thank You
From Thailand

AMC
10-07-18, 04:34 PM
Check these threads out mate,

https://champman0102.co.uk/showthread.php?t=714

https://champman0102.co.uk/showthread.php?t=7674

thong765
12-07-18, 04:10 PM
Thank You

marc1986
31-07-18, 10:40 AM
Let me get this right, it must be better having as many good coaches (with statts on 20) as possible? on every training rutine?

The Porridge Flo
01-08-18, 11:12 AM
Let me get this right, it must be better having as many good coaches (with statts on 20) as possible? on every training rutine?

No: to get max. reward from training it's enough having 5 coaches with combined rating of 50. Anything beyond (i.e. having 5 coaches with 20) does not see any additional improvement, according to findings in this thread (https://champman0102.co.uk/showthread.php?t=714&p=356733#post356733).

Whyme
12-08-18, 12:21 AM
No: to get max. reward from training it's enough having 5 coaches with combined rating of 50. Anything beyond (i.e. having 5 coaches with 20) does not see any additional improvement, according to findings in this thread (https://champman0102.co.uk/showthread.php?t=714&p=356733#post356733).

I still have my doubts about this one. I mean if the whole 50 points thing is true, then that means coaches intrinsic values would mean absolutely nothing

GFRay
12-08-18, 02:37 PM
I still have my doubts about this one. I mean if the whole 50 points thing is true, then that means coaches intrinsic values would mean absolutely nothing

You are absolutely right.

Intrinsic value for coaches mean nothing.

Whyme
12-08-18, 11:08 PM
You are absolutely right.

Intrinsic value for coaches mean nothing.

How about scouting intrinsic values, do they mean anything? I imagine it would be difficult to do a test for this

GFRay
12-08-18, 11:57 PM
How about scouting intrinsic values, do they mean anything? I imagine it would be difficult to do a test for thisYou are looking way too much into this mate. Intrinsic values are only important for players attributes.

terzino sinistro
20-11-18, 09:37 AM
I've never had players reach max potential with training. Most players maintain the CA they've when the save starts or when I sign them. They might go up a bit but come back down.

I've tried different training schedules, including General and individualised training, but same result.

Anyone else had the same problem? Don't know what I'm doing wrong.

Currently using (with the same result of course):

GK - Fitness: M, Tactics: M, Shooting: N, Skills: L, GK: I
DEF - Fitness: M, Tactics: I, Shooting: L, Skills: M, GK: N
DM - Fitness: M, Tactics: I, Shooting: L, Skills: I, GK: N
CM - Fitness: M, Tactics: M, Shooting: L, Skills: I, GK: N
AM - Fitness: M, Tactics: L, Shooting:M, Skills: I, GK: N
ST - Fitness: L, Tactics: M, Shooting: I, Skills: M, GK: N

Kyle Forrest
02-01-19, 01:03 AM
Even after all these years i'm still a noob when it comes to training & can't be arsed reading 25 pages of training tips so always stuck to my usual training schedules but anyway I still did but read this page - http://champman2002.stormpages.com/training.htm and then changed my coaches to the below and boom what a difference in my players developing :D http://imageshack.us/a/img822/2701/zf4a.png

Cam< where is the below picture?

Axel-Poison
28-01-19, 11:47 AM
I've never had players reach max potential with training. Most players maintain the CA they've when the save starts or when I sign them. They might go up a bit but come back down.

I've tried different training schedules, including General and individualised training, but same result.

Anyone else had the same problem? Don't know what I'm doing wrong.

Currently using (with the same result of course):

GK - Fitness: M, Tactics: M, Shooting: N, Skills: L, GK: I
DEF - Fitness: M, Tactics: I, Shooting: L, Skills: M, GK: N
DM - Fitness: M, Tactics: I, Shooting: L, Skills: I, GK: N
CM - Fitness: M, Tactics: M, Shooting: L, Skills: I, GK: N
AM - Fitness: M, Tactics: L, Shooting:M, Skills: I, GK: N
ST - Fitness: L, Tactics: M, Shooting: I, Skills: M, GK: N

I have this problem, but haven't dicision

!steve1977
03-07-19, 09:59 PM
Does this have to be done one at a time or can a load be moved over at the click of a button?

SteveV
04-07-19, 09:49 AM
There is no way to highlight more than one player at a time as far as I know