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View Full Version : Win Everything With Anyone - A Quick Guide - by churky



Patinoz
17-03-12, 07:11 PM
I see a lot of people tend to overcomplicate things in CM 01/02, especially newbies who still struggle with the game to a certain extent. Tapani made a quick guide for world domination, which includes holidaying and requires a good plug-and-play tactic.
I'll present a quick and simple way to play this game in order to win anything you want without holidaying or using a super tactic.
This is not the only way you can be successful, far from it. It's just one of the simplest ways to achieve great things. Some may agree with me or not, but the fact remains I've won almost every trophy using the method below.

Tactics

In order to be successful in this game, you do not need a killer tactic like Iodine or DWS. All you need is take into consideration a few things about the match engine in general and apply a few simple things to wibwob screens.

1. You need a narrow formation, preferably without wingers. Of course, you can win using any formation, but with using a narrow one you're already one step ahead.
2. Don't play with 3 at the back, use 4. If you don't mind completely unrealistic tactics, use 2 defenders as the game doesn't cope with that too well.
3. Employ a DMC to your formation because it's the most overpowered position in CM 01/02.
4. Use either 1 or 3 strikers, simply because it works better in this game. Again, tactics with 2 strikers can be as lethal as any, but 1 or 3 strikers is the easy way forward.

Team instructions

Short passing, pressing on, offside trap on, attacking mentality, tackling hard. You cannot go wrong with those settings.

Without the ball screen

The lowest middle WOB box is the key, you need to fill it with bodies.
On upper WOB screens, you need to push your defensive line much higher than the default position. It will make you both defensively(offside trap) and offensively(pressing) potent.

With the ball screen

Put your fullbacks (or other wide players if you decided to use them) as narrow as possible while maintaining their wide positions on overview screen.
Crowd the highest middle WIB box with your forwards and midfielders.
Place your players on the edges of each box, avoid having more than one player in the middle.

That's it. Just by following those simple instructions you can improve any non wibwob tactic by a considerably great margin.

Staff

Thanks to The Eejit's research, this is very straight-forward.

Coaches and Assistant Manager need Coaching Goalkeepers and Coaching Outfield Players.
Scouts need Judging Ability and Judging Potential Ability.
Physios only require Physiotherapy.

You can easily ignore other attribute (they can't hurt, of course).

Players

All positions demand Determination.

On top of that...

a) goalkeepers need only Handling, and maybe Reflexes and Positioning, but it's not vital
b) central defenders, fullbacks, and defensive midfielders need Positioning. Other logical things like Jumping, Marking and Tackling are nice to have, but not really necessary
c) other midfielders need Passing and Off the Ball. Again, many other attributes can help, but you can focus on those two, especially in the lower leagues
d) forwards need Jumping, Pace and Off the Ball

Scouting

Just send your scouts once or twice a season to each of the countries available. Once their report is completed, browse it using the filters above. That's all, you don't need to click club after club, player after player etc.


This is a very simplified guide, you can expand it in many ways, but it's more than sufficient to succeed at any level.
I repeat, this is not gospel, just one of the ways to dominate CM 01/02. The only difference is that the emphasis is on simplicity.

This guide is aimed at newbies who can't get the grasp of the game. I know forums are filled with experienced CMers and I encourage your criticism on this. http://champman0102.co.uk/forum/images/smilies/thumb.gif

Patinoz
17-03-12, 07:12 PM
Hi there, I've recently returned to CM after a long layoff and have been struggling to be honest and was really pleased to see this guide so I gave it a shot!!

Unfortunately it hasn't proved to be the tonic that I thought it would be so I'm after some further advice if thats ok?

I always try and take an unlikely team from low down to the Prem so I chose Huddersfield (good stadium/facilities, but little money) I have set up the team as per above with the best available players as per your stat guide and Determination. Unfortunately I currently reside in mid table, frequently losing games to teams at the bottom, creating lots of chances but converting very little or coming up against the greatest GK display ever. Any ideas!!!

Most of my players Determination is 11 or above and I tend to only put players in who match the stat recommendations with at least a 10 in the right attributes. I'm not sure I set the team up right on the WIBWOB screens but I pretty much followed the instructions. I have a back 4, DMC, 2CM and 3Strikers, should any of them have arrows going forward or anything?

Also this is the plain old game from the disc, should I update it at all and would that help with this tactic?

Thanks so much in advance!!!

Al

Patinoz
17-03-12, 07:12 PM
Hi, first of all, it takes some time to win using my guide, mostly due to not having a super tactic which makes the players irrelevant.

Whatever team you start with, they're bound to have loads of players that don't fit in your plans. It takes some time to rebuild the squad, but for starters focus on positioning, i.e. your defence and DMC. Also, I'd need to have a look at your tactic to see if there's maybe a mistake or two. I found that a simple detail can make or break a tactic. Upload your tactic or even save game and I'll have a look if you wish. http://champman0102.co.uk/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif

Patinoz
17-03-12, 07:14 PM
In my experience determination for strikers isn't that important. IMO off the ball seems far more important as the player can score a shitload of goals without having a decent number for jumping. Although, some players do become super-hybrids and work in the most mysterious ways. For the lower leagues I've found that jumping is a great att for strikers, you don't even need 18-20 for jumping in the lower leagues, 15 is still a lot there... I'm starting to believe that for the lower leagues, certain high atts just determine whether or not he's going to score a lot. From experience I've learned that these atts can be the only att with a high number for a player and still result in a lot of goals:
- Determination
- Off the ball
- Jumping
- Strength

Interesting examples:


http://www.image-share.com/upload/1216/179.png (http://www.image-share.com/ipng-1216-179.html)
http://www.image-share.com/upload/1216/180.png (http://www.image-share.com/ipng-1216-180.html)
http://www.image-share.com/upload/1216/181.png (http://www.image-share.com/ipng-1216-181.html)
http://www.image-share.com/upload/1216/182.png (http://www.image-share.com/ipng-1216-182.html)
http://www.image-share.com/upload/1216/183.png (http://www.image-share.com/ipng-1216-183.html)
http://www.image-share.com/upload/1216/184.png (http://www.image-share.com/ipng-1216-184.html)
http://www.image-share.com/ipng-1214-247.html
http://www.image-share.com/upload/1216/196.png (http://www.image-share.com/ipng-1216-196.html)
http://www.image-share.com/upload/1216/197.png (http://www.image-share.com/ipng-1216-197.html)
http://www.image-share.com/upload/1216/198.png (http://www.image-share.com/ipng-1216-198.html)

Patinoz
17-03-12, 07:15 PM
Amongst the 10 top goalscorers in Irish first div (that's where the screenies are from) the highest determination is 14. Average amongst them is 11,6. Average for jumping is 15,6.

Not much if you control the team yourself, but number of goals is pretty standard if the team is controlled by AI.

Another example:


http://www.image-share.com/upload/1216/252.png (http://www.image-share.com/ipng-1216-252.html)
http://www.image-share.com/upload/1216/253.png (http://www.image-share.com/ipng-1216-253.html)

Patinoz
17-03-12, 07:16 PM
If I could still open the savegame, I would dig out my Scottish Division 1 title-winning Airdrie side. 90% of the top scoring forwards list fell into two broad categories; physical beasts and pacy guys with good movement. The first one would have overwhelming strength, stamina, pace, jumping and, maybe, heading. The latter would have pace and off the ball. Given the latter is cheaper and easier to find than the former, I've always concentrated on getting guys with 14+ in pace and off the ball. Finishing is optional.

Patinoz
17-03-12, 07:17 PM
Churky, can you take a look at FodFod2 CF, what kind of strikers would u have (as Faz suggested above) in each of the two striker roles?

Patinoz
17-03-12, 07:17 PM
It's the same for any tactic; determination, off the ball, jumping, pace. It depends on the level you're at, but it's often enough to have just determination and one of the others. Combinations like jumping+heading or pace+acceleration can be a killer, too.

This is one area where people tend to overcomplicate things in CM0102. People are on about "strong target men" or "fast strikers fed by through balls" that "suit their tactic", but in reality it doesn't make a difference. The match engine is not advanced enough for that, especially when you employ a beast of a tactic. A striker with high required attributes will do fine in any style of play.

To be honest, I find it amusing when people elaborate heavily on CM0102 match engine. It's pretty straight-forward, there's no mystery about it. People just like to imagine its complexity for their own sense of fun and achievement.

Patinoz
17-03-12, 07:17 PM
Started up a Scottish Div 1 game on my netbook (so it has taken ages) but Liam Keogh's my current top scorer and he leads the division in mid-February with 27 goals. My aforementioned skillsets are physical beast (Heading [optional], Jumping, Pace, Stamina, Strength) and the pacy mover (Finishing [optional], Off the Ball, Pace)

Liam Keogh's a physical beast, though his Finishing and Off the Ball are decent for this level.
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b296/amancalledmikey/keogh.png

In the top 10, we also have Eddie Annand (3rd):
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b296/amancalledmikey/annand.png

James Grady, who lacks strength but ticks the other boxes (8th):
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b296/amancalledmikey/grady.png

And Keogh's partner Martin Bavidge (10th):
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b296/amancalledmikey/bavidge.png

I need to scout some of the others but is seems it splits 4 beasts, 2 movers, 2 guys who do a bit of both and two out-and-out Imre Varadi-esque pace merchants.

Patinoz
17-03-12, 07:18 PM
As if to prove churky's point:
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b296/amancalledmikey/mendes.png

Mendes is freakishly fast but fairly average elsewhere. He's second top scorer in the division.

foo_jam2002
21-03-12, 09:35 PM
How do you know that the match engine is very simplistic? I always think that whatever i do in the game has an impact.

syahrosh
25-03-12, 08:43 PM
Simple as always, math cant go wrong, whatever cmscout says, that's the truth. If a 70% rated striker cant do nothing in segunda division when u put him as striker, then ur tactics surely svcks. I dont wanna use cmscout blah blah blah, rilax maan....get ur scout with judge player ability 14++ and hear what he say about your target, if he say exellent signing, just buy the player, after u buy, ask ur physio, if ur physio say i rare to injury, use him, if ur physio say will always injury, just sell again the player. If u can make world class team ( add new team, ask friendly with ur main team, then scout ur main team with next oppotition..hear what ur new team scout say ) then in 2016, u will win everything..( in 2016, i am sure 99%, no world class team left in this world but ur team, but mediocre team got stronger so u cant bully many team again except u play in mediocre league ).........simple or complicated..it is ur choice as a gamer, charge, mortal strike, whirlwind, execute always a simple task with macro ^^V

Matt98
26-03-12, 09:25 PM
thanks mate good tips.

churky
27-03-12, 08:57 AM
How do you know that the match engine is very simplistic? I always think that whatever i do in the game has an impact.

I know by playing this game for 10 years and winning everything with crappiest teams, using just the tips above. People tend to overcomplicate their approach to this game all the time.

shikaka
27-03-12, 09:03 AM
I know by playing this game for 10 years and winning everything with crappiest teams, using just the tips above. People tend to overcomplicate their approach to this game all the time.


Did you also win with non-wibwob tactics?

If yes, you could share a few :)
Especially if you have a working one with 3 defenders.

churky
27-03-12, 10:24 AM
Did you also win with non-wibwob tactics?

If yes, you could share a few :)
Especially if you have a working one with 3 defenders.

3 defenders is almost impossible in CM and you know it. :)
I haven't used non wibwob tactics for years. On the other hand, my tactics are not heavily wibwobbed, just a few things here and there, as described above. That's the whole point, lots of success in a very simple way.

shikaka
27-03-12, 11:25 AM
3 defenders is almost impossible in CM and you know it. :)

Well, kinda :)
But 2 strikers should be hard to get right as well, and I finished 6th with Blackburn (without signings) in the first season with a non wibwobbed 4-1-3-2 :)




I haven't used non wibwob tactics for years. On the other hand, my tactics are not heavily wibwobbed, just a few things here and there, as described above. That's the whole point, lots of success in a very simple way.

I like stock tactics, makes it a bit more challenging, but I understand that this is not your point in a 'how to win' guide.

I think if you have a team of good players (not world class, but as you described in the 'necessery attributes' section) it is hard to avoid success. For example in the Burley challenge I used stock 4-1-2-1-2 diamond and 4-1-3-1-1, and won: the premiership 1X, FA cup 2X and the UEFA cup 1X.
The thing is, when you assembled the team and had a good season, sometimes the board thinks too much of them*.

*I had a good run with St.Pauli, finished 2nd when the board wanted 'avoid relegation'. Next years expectation - battle for the title - was impossible to achieve with Leverkusen, HSV and Schalke unloading the St.Pauli minivan of useful players...
I was fired around November, when we were 7th in the league. Luckily there were a few openings so I could play on.

Kenny Dalglish's Smile
27-03-12, 03:46 PM
3 defenders is almost impossible in CM and you know it. :)

Actually 343 is alright, the default one

Kenny Dalglish's Smile
27-03-12, 03:47 PM
But 2 strikers should be hard to get right as well
2 strikers in a 442 with no arrows and no wibwob is also pretty good

foo_jam2002
28-03-12, 01:01 AM
I know by playing this game for 10 years and winning everything with crappiest teams, using just the tips above. People tend to overcomplicate their approach to this game all the time.

But it takes some time to turn a crappy team to a good one. At least for me, winning titles with small clubs has it's challenges and it's not a walk in the park. Of course i never go on holiday, i play each game and i still want to complicate my approach to this game as i did back in the day :)

Mick
28-03-12, 05:37 AM
Holidaying should be banned/disabled (if possible) in my humbe opinion...

Fods
28-03-12, 07:33 AM
why

syahrosh
28-03-12, 08:22 AM
Just stop holidaying if u wanna feel the real feelin. With holidaying, u can spend more of ur time with ur families and friends, that's IMO ^^V.

Mick
29-03-12, 12:24 AM
why

Why play a management game and not manage. Its like buying Fifa 12 and getting the computer to play for you AI v AI.

Fods
29-03-12, 12:44 AM
I think you are missing the point of the thread :slap:

andycap
31-03-12, 12:39 AM
With the ball screen
Place your players on the edges of each box, avoid having more than one player in the middle.
could anybody explain what this part means?

Kenny Dalglish's Smile
01-04-12, 08:09 AM
Too many players in the middle
http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/5787/playersmiddle.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/841/playersmiddle.jpg/)
Players on the edge of the wib box
http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/7042/playersedge.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/171/playersedge.jpg/)

Fods
01-04-12, 10:54 AM
Too many players in the middle
http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/5787/playersmiddle.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/841/playersmiddle.jpg/)
Players on the edge of the wib box
http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/7042/playersedge.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/171/playersedge.jpg/)

get n the DTL area else u will be sacked :ok:

Pokahontas
11-12-12, 05:43 PM
LOL, i have never wob/wob(ed)!

I won 12 CL in a row once with 3-5-2 (w/ DMC & AMC) & 3-4-3 in certain games... with Lyon. Good players do the work for me, there's no big secrets. did several CL winning careers doing LLM in Premier League (all english teams are potentially good for this)

If defenders are better than opposition strikers & my strikers better than opposition defenses, that should do it. Obviously all other positions the better the stats/ratings the better. one keeps building the team constantly.

AMC can be a great position (loads of goals & assists but it can be really shit too... don't really understand that one)
goalkeepers I rate them in 3 categories: 1. suck loads of goals; 2. average a goal per game; 3. less than a goal per game.... seriously good stats is good & thats what i search for but they don't really seem to do anything (ex, a great goalkeeper can have 11/12/13 on handling, or have no reflexes at all) i filter them by tackling LOL

i find team chemistry is better than anything else (players liking each other, liking their tactic, liking their manager) but i just found out you can win every trophy on the menu with a lot of problems: players wanting to leave, not enjoying the atmosphere in the team, dissing the manager in public, etc

I agree that simplicity is the key. sticking with the same ideas (tactic, starting XI, players roles in the team, not buying or selling during the season) works best!

Apart from that, having the best possible players is the real secret.

churky
11-12-12, 07:33 PM
I was about to comment on this...



i find team chemistry is better than anything else (players liking each other, liking their tactic, liking their manager)


...but then realised you saw the error in your thinking.


but i just found out you can win every trophy on the menu with a lot of problems: players wanting to leave, not enjoying the atmosphere in the team, dissing the manager in public, etc

Player morale and team atmosphere mean fuck all in CM0102. I've had players with very poor morale, hating me and and a few of their team-mates, wanting to leave club, asking to be transfer listed on a weekly basis...and still banging goals like nothing is happening. Morale is one thing that just doesn't work properly in CM0102. Or maybe it does, if they didn't want it to be influential in the first place, who knows.

Otherwise, I agree with your post. Wibwobbing your tactic is not obligatory, but having players with a right set of attributes is. The "secret" is looking for key attributes in relation to different positions, there's no need for expensive all-rounders.

Pokahontas
11-12-12, 08:05 PM
Player morale and team atmosphere mean fuck all in CM0102. not so sure about that... i was playing a w/ a friend
and had this 19 yo italian AC..
he said 'I don't see whats good about that guy and can't believe he actually scores goals and has good ratings...'
long story short
i told him, just notice, if his morale is 'v. good' or 'superb' he will score 2 or 3 & rating will be 9 or 10... and it happened, every time, game after game. when his morale was lower along came the string of 6's & 7's ratings & no goals. Then I gave him a contract just to prove the point -> morale went Superb -> ratings tru the roof & goal after goal. NOW this is far from an exhaustive research, but i think i can safely say it must have some impact (or maybe some players are influenced by it to different degrees at least)
I think team morale has a lot to do when things go bad tho

but if things go good even if morale isn't great, sure there could be other factors... like team construction/quality being Overkill (as it often is), like quality players on the bench itching to put out great performances, like quality staff maxing out players attributes, etc etc

I am not saying the game is perfect, far from it... those tapani tactics - with every player running with ball & keeping the ball - they're just outright ludicrous, but they work even if you put 11 mickey mice on the field

It is still a great game tho :D ........ & way waaaaaaay better than cm 4 or some of the FM's (I haven't played in a while, since 2008 & 2009)

when i was a beginner, it did annoy the hell outta me just not understanding where things were going wrong

Trip
12-12-12, 10:46 AM
By the way, there's one position that all-rounders do great for me, a DMC with a small farrow, in my wib-wobbed 3-4-3, so I guess there's a place for them too sometimes.

AtomicAnt
12-12-12, 02:06 PM
NOW this is far from an exhaustive research, but i think i can safely say it must have some impact (or maybe some players are influenced by it to different degrees at least)

You're right. I never let anyone with low or v low morale start a game. Its one of the most important factors when i pick my squad, espec for big games like finals. You'll be three nil down after 30min if you start with a low morale goalkeeper.

The mystery position for me is DC. You can spend 15mill on a DC w great stats and he'll suck. Another DC with same stats can play like a god. Ive found that an avg of at least 3 tackles/game is the key factor to how well they play. But you'll rarely know how good they are until you buy them as foreign leagues dont show avg tackles/game.

churky
12-12-12, 03:20 PM
You're right. I never let anyone with low or v low morale start a game. Its one of the most important factors when i pick my squad, espec for big games like finals. You'll be three nil down after 30min if you start with a low morale goalkeeper.



Not really true from my experience. Once I was deliberately pissing off my players over the course of a season just to see if it makes any difference. It didn't.

merkezekrem
12-12-12, 03:23 PM
Maybe low determination players' morale effect them more and vice versa

Pokahontas
12-12-12, 04:25 PM
espec for big games like finals. Thanks atomic.
i've noticed this as well. I find a Final is more likely to be won after the league is solved with a win (and all team morale gets great after this). But again, there's no research to back this, just hours/weeks/months of experience playing the game.

I do agree with churky that the game has a lot of randomness, and people that delved into the code can safely say it isn't that developed... however my experience playing says success can be achieved ignoring 'off the ball' & strikers with no pace. I am now aware of how much 'off the ball' does kill along with a strong lad upfront.... but for years I was happily ignoring it

... same for positioning for defenders... i go for "tackling" instead in lower leagues... (Lucio was one of the best Defenders in the ODB. His positioning was always shit...) I think at the lower level its a bit random to be honest (ex, Jumping & Strength & shitty everything else could be enough for strings of great ratings)

For DMC, i never Ever cared for 'positioning', great ratings can be on the back of Aggression & Tackling alone, but i recognize the "the work" attributes boost this a lot.

For midfielders, I've never EVER looked at 'off the ball'. I look at creativity & passing. it seems to work


Another aspect that hasn't been mentioned is stamina. I didn't usually care or look for it, but i've recently found this is one of the most important ones. A player can be great all-round, but with no 'stamina' he simply is not at the standard required to play professional football. I actually think this explain a lot of strings of bad/passable ratings/exhibitions. (JUST A UNDERLINING HERE, 'Stamina' is really REAAAALLLY IMPORTANT FOR WIDE PLAYERS)

In sum, I think if someone follows this guide, they'll probably achieve success. I know churky said himself there's 1000 other ways around to do the same. I guess all I'm saying is I agree.

Pokahontas
12-12-12, 04:37 PM
Not really true from my experience. Once I was deliberately pissing off my players over the course of a season just to see if it makes any difference. It didn't. I think this is a bit like chicken & egg.
You piss them off, morale goes down. The team still has quality to win a lot, morale goes up.

I agree that it is not absolutely crucial, but morale does play a role in a way you don't seem to see. But ok, thats fine.


Maybe low determination players' morale effect them more and vice versa Again, for years & years I've ignored 'Determination'. I am not pretending i win every thing all the time, but I was able to win a lot

then I started seeing a pattern with failed transfers & "determination"... low ratings & "determination"... and especially how difficult to beat teams the scout rate as determined are... So I started focusing on 'determination' when operating a big change at a club, it really makes a difference & makes the game easier (its like it gives you an edge over teams of similar & even greater ability)

Jesus
13-12-12, 09:03 PM
Just thought I'd add my own two cents here...

I once experimented in one of my saves by picking players sorted by Morale. I found that the players who had a higher morale produced a higher rating and, in general, results were a little bit better than before. I also found that players who were 'average' stat wise would pull it out of the bag on more than one occasion and really shine in matches. I don't know whether this was simply superstition or that I was over analysing things but I personally feel morale has some sort of bearing on a matches outcome. It comes down to personal preference really.

Jussie
18-12-12, 04:51 PM
I think it's safe to say that if the tactic is strong enough, no amount of crappy players or low morale can make difference. So in that sense I can agree with Churky. On the other hand, when playing with nonwibbed flat 442's, the small things do start to matter. That's at least my experience when playing these tactics over long periods.

Also I'd like to second the shout-out for Stamina as an important attribute. I've ignored this one completely for ever up until recently. And though, i was good enough without looking at stamina, my performances have increased now that I do. Maybe it simply because with high stamina allround you can keep your best players going longer.

heldheld
14-01-13, 07:02 PM
Without the ball screen

The lowest middle WOB box is the key, you need to fill it with bodies.
On upper WOB screens, you need to push your defensive line much higher than the default position. It will make you both defensively(offside trap) and offensively(pressing) potent.

With the ball screen

Put your fullbacks (or other wide players if you decided to use them) as narrow as possible while maintaining their wide positions on overview screen.
Crowd the highest middle WIB box with your forwards and midfielders.
Place your players on the edges of each box, avoid having more than one player in the middle.


So you mean: "crowd" the WIB box with forwards/midfielders by placing them on the edges and put your main striker in the middle?
Is that the same for "filling the lower middle WOB box with bodies", placing almost everyone on the edges and your main defender in the middle?

i'm sorry it's just a little confusing with some of these contradicting things. (crowd/bodies vs. avoid having more than one player in the middle)

churky
14-01-13, 09:10 PM
For the highest middle WIB box, the "crowd" advice stands.
For every other WIB screen, you should "Place your players on the edges of each box and avoid having more than one player in the middle".

churky
14-01-13, 09:10 PM
For the highest middle WIB box, the "crowd" advice stands.
For every other WIB screen, you should "Place your players on the edges of each box and avoid having more than one player in the middle".

heldheld
15-01-13, 10:32 AM
And in the WOB would it be the same?
a crowded lower middle box and the other WOB screens with 1 in the middle and the rest on the edges?

churky
15-01-13, 10:42 AM
Without the ball screen

The lowest middle WOB box is the key, you need to fill it with bodies.
On upper WOB screens, you need to push your defensive line much higher than the default position. It will make you both defensively(offside trap) and offensively(pressing) potent.

A crowded lower middle box - yes.
But other WOB screen you should retain the default shape while pushing up your defensive line (and the rest of the players accordingly).

Bunglefish
12-02-13, 10:10 PM
this was a really good read, ty :)

Fabbs
07-09-13, 04:43 PM
I'd add one more important tip:

leave highest left and right "WITH THE BALL" boxes empty. No players inside. Move tchem to the edges of the box.

In many cases that "wibwob rule" appeared to be crucial. When applying it you can even play your L&R defenders wide (when having 4 of them), wingers like, except for those two boxes which should remain EMPTY.

Goofy
07-09-13, 06:51 PM
I'd add one more important tip:

leave highest left and right "WITH THE BALL" boxes empty.


Why?

Fabbs
07-09-13, 09:25 PM
Why?

I don't know, Goof. honestly :D BUT: I got back to playing CM0102 recently, discovered my managering skills are a bit rusty, so read a bit through this forum in search for some tips. Got to this thread, applied what I've learned (meaning: I created my own tactics) and... Nothing. At least: nothing special. After a couple of experiments thought to myself: why would I care to appoint a player to every WIB box? Specialy those upper left and right? If I want - and I DO - to have almost everyone in the middle upper box what attacking, why would I also want this pack to run like crazy from one one wing to another?
And: what would CM engine do if I don't tell him anything bout them empty boxes?

Well. That's what happend:

created a fresh tactic, applied first to Polish National Team career landed 4th in World Cup, then repeated in Europe. Loosing twice to Italians :)

Now I'm checking the power of this tactic on Stevenage Borough (conference) and win nicely almost everything (only two draws, never lost anything so far) for like 25 matches including cups.

I just feel the difference.

Tried it with another tacs: the same. Just makes the difference.

Don't know why, but apparently it does ;)

shilts
09-09-13, 09:33 PM
It's good to read what other people do....I'll share what has served me very well for years and maybe those struggling a bit will find it useful.

Tactics:
3 DC
1 DMC
2 MC
1 AMC
3 FC

Direct, hard tackling, offside trap, pressing

Captain: select the player with highest influence and determination (but not a youngster)

Penalties, corners, free kicks etc - leave them all blank and let those on the pitch decide whose going to take what.

WIBWOB - I have NEVER changed anything here at all.

I've read that a lot of people don't use 'direct' but personally, I've never used anything else and it's always work really well for me. Likewise, lots of people WIB and WOB, but again, I never have done...ever and there isn't a league/cup I haven't won.

Players

GK: Handling is the most important but also look for reflexes and agilty with 10's in jumping and bravery too.
Having a decent keeper is really important with this formation because if he's rubbish, you could ship a few goals. That said, I've always managed to find a keeper who works fine with this formation, even with lower league clubs. If your keeper is crap, sell him and get another, if the new is crap, get another and keep going until you get one.

DC: tackling, stamina, strength, positioning, pace, marking, jumping, heading, work rate and determination.
Sometimes it can be tricky to get top notch defenders with this formation - if you can get 7.00 as an average rating over the season, then they're pretty good. But it is entirely possible to get some players who buck this trend and get 7.50+

DMC: tackling, passing, stamina, determination and work rate
Almost any DMC will do well, some will do amazingly well. In the original database, in the lower leagues both Denny Ingram from Scarborough and Jamie Victory from Cheltenham averaged over 8.5 and cost peanuts. In any version of the game as I've said, almost any half decent DMC will perform really, really well.

MC: big passing (ideally 15+), creativity, stamina, determination and work rate (and to a much lesser extent tackling)
I've found that a high passing stat for the MC's is the most important, I've known MC's with 15 passing and 8 tackling with only 6 creativity do the job. Sometimes it's tricky to find quality MC's but like I've said, the passing stat is the main - but like many parts of the game it's not nailed on. I've had players with 10 in passing, creativity and tackling and they've created bucket loads of chances. Richie Wellens, Walker (can't remember his first name...could be Jason? anyway, he plays for Lincoln) and just 2 from the original database who are top notch - Kenny Lunt at Crewe is another.

AMC: passing, creativity, stamina, determination and work rate
Like the DMC, just find a reasonable AMC and he'll outperform what his stats suggest he should do when used with this formation. Expect average rating of 8-9 with lots of goals and assists

FC: finishing, pace, off the ball, stamina, determination and work rate (also, the central player of the 3 fw's could use high jumping and heading)
To be honest, it's pretty hard to have 3 rubbish forwards with this formation because even players who look a bit rubbish will do well. Finishing is very important and having at least one player with high jumping/heading is very useful - Leo Fortune-West in the original game is a machine, as are Michael Dunwell, Peter Weatherston and many, many others.

Coaches/Assistants
Get coaches that match this formation - ie do not employ anyone who likes a patient or cautious approach. High coaching outfield is useful with at least one with high coaching goalkeeping. At least a 10 in adaptability is useful and make sure your assistant has high everything and always fill all 6 slots (obviously ignore physio for non-physios and judging player ability/potential for non-scouts). Ignore their reputation in the lower leagues - unproven is preferable as they'll be cheap on wages.

Transfers/Wages/Cashflow
I like to buy cheap and sell high - I do it all the time. Even if the player is performing badly for his current team but his stats suggest he should be pretty good, take a chance on him. I often buy players from teams where they are out of favour and sell them for loads. Be careful with wages - just because you can pay a player 5k per week in Div 2 doesn't mean you should, especially if your average gate is very low (eg under 5,000). If he wants too much, get someone else. Youngsters are ideal here, they rarely want high wages. If someone offers silly money for one of your players, let him go and get a cheap replacement. If other clubs are showing an interest in one of my players who is worth, eg, 200k, I will set his asking price (NOT transfer list him) at the amount I'd accept to sell, eg 1m and you'll find that the interest will either immediately disappear (and you get to keep your star) or a team comes in with a 1m offer (and therefore enable you to get a couple more quality players in). If another club comes in with 1m offer, add another 200k to the pricve, if they up their offer to 1.2m, go back to the previously accepted 1m offer from the other club and cancel it, this ensures the player will go to the 1.2m club and increase your income. If you have players who are going to leave their clubs on Bosman's, offer 1k to the club and they will accept immediately and you'll get him before the end of his contract. Another KEY thing you should do to raise cash is once you've decided to sell a player, list him for MUCH more than his real value and see if anyone takes the bait. Eg in the original database, with Hartlepool, I can get 1m for all of these: Micky Barron, Richie Humphreys, Graeme Lee, errmmm there are other too...just can't remember their names right now...Martin Hollund will go for 500k and the other keeper will go for 650k. Sometimes Stephenson can be gotten rid of for 500k as will Paul Arnison, oh yes, Tommy Widdrington, he's another 1m..so that's what? 6m approx just from those few players for a Div 3 side? Happy days.

Discipline
Personally, I like a happy camp. If players get a 5 rating, give them a warning for poor performance. If they get a 4 or under, fine them a week's wages for poor performance. If they get sent off, give them a warning for getting sent off. If a player speaks out and upsets the other players, sell him. Simple as that. If they're unhappy due to lack of games, either bring them back into the team or get rid. If a player gets homesick, get rid, they rarely recover from it and even when they do, as soon as they miss a few games they'll be homesick again.

Success
This isn't in any way bragging, I am just telling you what I've managed to achieve by doing the above - there are loads of other bits and pieces but the above is the main stuff - I follow Hartlepool United in real life (yes, really) and in the March 2013 updated version of the game I took Pools from Div 2 to Prem in consecutive seasons, scored 129 goals in Div 2 and then again in Div 1. Finished 5th in Prem in 3rd season, then 3rd the seaosn after, then won the Prem for the next 4 years. I've won the FA Cup a couple of times, the UEFA Cup twice, the League Cup a few times, The Super Cup and World Club Championships and finished runners up to Barceloan in the Champions League twice. We have about 60m in the bank and have signed the likes of Ronaldo and Falcao (albeit in their twilight years but Ronaldo at Hartlepool!!) and only broke the wage structure to get Ronaldo - all the other players are not World renowned and all were paid under 10k per week until I started winning the Prem regularly and now the average will be about 13-15k per week (and consider that bigger clubs have players on 70k plus as an average for their first team).

In the original database, the best season I've had has to be going unbeaten in season 1 in the league with Hartlepool (in Div 3) and winning the FA Cup at the same time.

In the higher leagues, I've done the quadruple - Prem, FA Cup, League Cup and Champions League and have won the World Cup and European Championships at international level on a number of occasions.

Using the above, I have never come across a team, no matter how crap, that I can't turn around and get success with - I've taken Bishop Auckland from Conference to Prem in consecutive seasons as an example.

To spice things up a bit/try something new, I once tried buying only those players who had a minimum of 18 aggression and STILL won the league.

Like I said, this isn't a bragging 'look at me' session, it's just an example of the success I've had employing the above tactics

I hope it helps those who are perhaps struggling a bit and give it a season and see how you get on and if you have any questions and I can help, I will do.

Cheers :)

Fods
09-09-13, 09:58 PM
Good post Shilts, some great insight :ok:

shilts
09-09-13, 10:26 PM
Cheers Fodster :)

I never really posted before because I just assumed everyone on here would know all the tricks and know much more than me anyway so didn't think I could offer anything new.

Oh forgot to mention - the above uses 'attacking' in tactics too of course ;)

JLa
09-10-13, 02:25 PM
Just out of interest - could you write down the player instructions for your 3-1-2-1-3 tactic? (forward runs, pressing, passing etc etc).

anderss
31-10-13, 07:40 PM
I focus on getting players with high technique and dribbling on my wingers and play run with ball on them. Often play right/left forwards or midfielders as wingers. I usually play with 2 strikers and make them make forward runs and run with ball if technique or dribbling is > 12 and hold on to ball if strenght is >= 15. I also use man to man marking (and always checks opponents tactics before kick off. If he uses 1 striker I change one dc to zonal marking) and often play cd defensive when attacking. I usually play 4132 and zonal marking on all midfields, and defensive when defending. I think strength, passing and technique is important for cm and dm and usually play hold on to ball if strength is over 15.

mihaio07
06-11-13, 05:18 PM
I'm so glad I got to play a hefty 8 years of CM01/02 before finding this site with all its wib/wob, centralized formations, cheat tactics, 21 positioning and holiday-mode careering.
Struggling to win CL with a top class team was definitely more rewarding and realistic than being able to take a 3rd division team to European success in 3 years. With young and free players.

I'm not trying to take a stab at anyone, I'm just saying.

Kenny Dalglish's Smile
08-11-13, 08:16 PM
ee arth welcome, dude

churky
08-11-13, 09:07 PM
I'm so glad I got to play a hefty 8 years of CM01/02 before finding this site with all its wib/wob, centralized formations, cheat tactics, 21 positioning and holiday-mode careering.
Struggling to win CL with a top class team was definitely more rewarding and realistic than being able to take a 3rd division team to European success in 3 years. With young and free players.

I'm not trying to take a stab at anyone, I'm just saying.

That's what every one of us has said at some point, I believe. As much as this site is fantastic for updates, banter etc., it has also spoiled everyone's game at least to some degree.

Kenny Dalglish's Smile
09-11-13, 07:33 PM
although, not enough to stop playing...

faz44
10-11-13, 10:50 AM
It's sad though, I still learn stuff every day or relearn stuff I forgot. I'm currently infatuated with buying players with very high pace and acceleration and seeing what you can get out of them, breaking a long-held habit of only buying attacking midfielders with passing/off the ball.

felipereis_jf
01-01-15, 04:33 AM
Hey Guys
I got a question
So if i have a playmaker in my tactic that i tell him to stay behind and try through ball , i shouldn't look for creativity,passing and technique,but passing and off the ball?
I'm sorry for the bad english.

LeVoyeur
11-11-15, 06:32 PM
3 defenders is almost impossible in CM and you know it. :)

I disagree.

I ran a great all-conquering Everton team playing 5-3-1-1.

That's 3 CBs, 2 WBs with attacking intent, 3 DMCs, AMC and SC

The major flaw with a 3 CB team is that the guy in the middle always plays relatively poorly. You can put the best CBs in the game in the middle and they will average between 6.7 - 7.1 per season. The secret is rotating your best CBs to not over-expose them to the central position or else finding CBs who perform exceptionally well there for whatever reasons - I've found guys like Aymeric Laporte and big Chris Samba performing 7.2-7.5 in a full season but "superstars" like Sergio Ramos, Vincent Kompany etc can perform horrifically. Now my central CB of the 3 is zonal marking and the other 2 guys are man-marking. I really don't understand why the slow guys who have big strength, tackling, heading, determination play this position much better than defenders who are statistically better. Even when you discover defenders who out-perform the others in this position, it is still important to maintain their form and morale, so rotate to easier positions as appropriate.

The 3 DMCs and wingbacks always play well. The central DMC or indeed all 3 DMCs, may be instructed/arrowed to make forward runs but all of them are ZONAL MARKING. The DMCs should be averaging 7.5+ and the WBs 7.7+. My default Everton team I played Besic (exceptional DMC) along with McCarthy (exceptional when on hot form) and Ross Barkley (decent but no Schweiny). It's also nice to rotate the best defenders into DMCs like Varane or Kompany who have better skills than most pure DMCs.

The weak points of these tactics are the central CB and the AMC, who is lucky to av 7.5 for a season (rotation between Schweinsteiger, Barkley, Deulofeu and an edited Riyad Mahrez). Again it's crucial to maintain form and morale in this position.

The Striker should be scoring for fun. In my first season I had Deulofeu up front averaging close to a goal a game. When I acquired Ronaldo the dude would score 1-3 goals in the first half of most games for several seasons. A standard Ronaldo season for me was 50 goals in 40 games and I rested him against all weaker teams and some home matches against higher level opposition.

Useful in-match tweaks to these tactics include taking off the central CB and adding another striker or adding 2 AMCs arrowing either side of the Striker, pushing the WBs into a standard MR/ML or even FR/FL in dire situations.

Standard home instructions are mid screen box with and without ball, attacking/direct/press/off-side or short passing depending on how the team is retaining possession and creating quality chances. Standard away tactics, bring your team back and add normal/defensive play depending on opposition. If you are struggling to pick between direct and short passing, let your coaches decide for you by their preferences or hire coaches who suit your preferences. I have generally found that having an Assistant Manager who shares your philosophy is only ever a good thing. I have also had teams with exceptional individual quality who played shit if none of my coaches had a preference for my current formation and style of play.

NOTE: There is nothing wrong with using counter-attack and/or men-behind-ball. I like these tactics specifically during European games when I am ahead or in a position I wish to keep (say score draw away from home or 3-0 at home). If you use these tactics you should remove pressing and possibly off-side trap too (match stats dependent).

I have used these tactics successfully for world dominating teams and even rotated to two CBs for a season. Using 3 CBs and a single AMC always requires a more ad-hoc managerial approach than say running Mourinho's 4-1-4-1/4-5-1 or Barca/Madrid with 3 strikers.

It's essential you have outstanding WBs, at least 2 outstanding DMCs, at least 2 outstanding CBs and an outstanding SC to make these tactics work against big teams.

trevorplatt
13-11-15, 03:27 PM
What evidence is there for Determination being so critical? I'm not disagreeing with its importance, I'm just wondering how and when it was discovered to be so crucial.

Romano338
15-11-15, 08:52 AM
Or:

1) Buy Reyad
2) Build a shelf for your trophies

:D

Thanks for the guide!!!

teh1234
16-11-15, 04:42 AM
What evidence is there for Determination being so critical? I'm not disagreeing with its importance, I'm just wondering how and when it was discovered to be so crucial.

I know that determination determines how fast players get better attributes in training. How it influence field performance, dunno.

Also someone mentioned importance of stamina and I must agree. Especially when I play in lower leagues I put every player with stamina <15 on maximum fitness training. 15 is usually enough to play full match and recover to 100% condition in 3-4 days except wingbacks and wingers (they need about 17-18).

http://scr.hu/0gcl/m19qc
http://scr.hu/0gcl/azk5y
http://scr.hu/0gcl/oos4p

Don't worry, these schedules won't make players lose their condition.*

*if they got natural fitness hidden attribute >10 (not 100% sure)

Romano338
16-11-15, 02:32 PM
Can't tell either, but I remember even around 2002-2003, it was known that players with determination were in general good/very good.
And most of the cheated players like Reyad, Tsigalko,... have very very high determination

samsami
13-10-17, 10:36 AM
This is a good thread to read through. Good food for thought!

jackyboi90
22-11-17, 11:43 PM
Very good read guys so thanks for all of your input.

ironballz
10-07-20, 11:34 AM
Thanks for this honest advice. Sometimes it feels like advice is given for the sake of confusing the noobs. This simple tactic is working so far.

henry2705
10-07-20, 01:36 PM
Cant agree with the OPs comments on what to look for in a GK tbh. For me, a GK MUST have good Agility as well as Handling and Reflexes.

Had a regen GK recently who had great numbers for Handling and Reflexes but only 8 for Agility (this is a real problem with regen keepers btw, a lot have appalling agility). I had a solid defence and most of the time I created a lot more chances than the opposition but we conceded goals for fun. I pretty much expected to concede every time I saw the other team had an attack. There were games where Id create 12 chances in a game and not score but the opponent would create 2 and score from both. This wasnt a one off, it happened regularly.

As soon as I brought in a GK with 14 Agility, the problem ceased.

Ive also noticed that I score loads of goals against good GKs from other teams who have poor rating for Agility.

Anyone else found this?

henry2705
10-07-20, 01:41 PM
What evidence is there for Determination being so critical? I'm not disagreeing with its importance, I'm just wondering how and when it was discovered to be so crucial.

Another interesting thing about players with high Determination is that if you get a press article praising them but you choose to play it down, they usually react okay to it (not throwing a hissy fit and requesting a transfer) and produce even better performances as a result (youll see so-and-so hits back at his manager! in the commentary).

kaf
14-07-20, 06:29 PM
Cant agree with the OPs comments on what to look for in a GK tbh. For me, a GK MUST have good Agility as well as Handling and Reflexes.

Had a regen GK recently who had great numbers for Handling and Reflexes but only 8 for Agility (this is a real problem with regen keepers btw, a lot have appalling agility). I had a solid defence and most of the time I created a lot more chances than the opposition but we conceded goals for fun. I pretty much expected to concede every time I saw the other team had an attack. There were games where Id create 12 chances in a game and not score but the opponent would create 2 and score from both. This wasnt a one off, it happened regularly.

As soon as I brought in a GK with 14 Agility, the problem ceased.

Ive also noticed that I score loads of goals against good GKs from other teams who have poor rating for Agility.

Anyone else found this?

I always look for GKs with high agility and also a somewhat decent jumping stat.

Agility also seems to be an important stat for tall strikers.

henry2705
14-07-20, 09:20 PM
I always look for GKs with high agility and also a somewhat decent jumping stat.

Agility also seems to be an important stat for tall strikers.

Yeah, Jumping is a big one too and, again, regens seem to suffer in this regard. Had a quality regen keeper who was normally outstanding but there were quite a few times you saw: X player beats keeper to the ball in commentary, probably owing to his low Jumping stat.

brendanhunter39
04-08-20, 08:27 PM
am i doing something wrong or does the tactic only work on certain updates? I remember using this on the odb and it worked but on the latest 2020 update i keep drawing/losing last minute goals. Is the tactic in the DL section so i can compare that one to mine in case I've messed up? Cheers

F1Krazy
15-08-20, 11:23 AM
Yeah, this doesn't work for me either, at least not with the Luessenhoff DB. I followed the steps - tactics, training, signing players with high Determination - started the season aaaaaand...

https://i.imgur.com/cPklPDD.png

Did I do something wrong? Does this tactic not work as well as advertised? Did I just choose a bad team? Or am I just that crap at this game?

I set Tackling to Normal instead of Hard, because in my experience Hard tackling is more trouble than it's worth, but it can't have made THAT much of a difference, right?

EDIT: Tried this in my ongoing Bradford game with the same result: a month or so of mixed performances, my squad's morale plummeted, and then I went 6-2 down at Norwich by half-time and rage-quit. Either I'm the world's worst CM01/02 player (in which case please help me stop sucking), or my players suck, or this tactic just doesn't work.