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Patinoz
22-03-12, 10:32 PM
I'm going to try and answer one of the most frequently asked questions/complaints regarding the game, ie How the hell do you get a job abroad? Those who have been playing Challenge 4 will know all too well how frustrating it can be to win the league consecutively, be 1st in the World Rankings and still get rejected by lower league clubs! I hope to run some tests and find a solution to this problem.

I hope to test the following:
- the impact of Current Ability (CA) and Potential Ability (PA) on finding a job abroad
- the impact of reputation on finding a job abroad
- the impact of past achievements on finding a job abroad

I may also think of other things as I go along

I have already done a few tests which I will be posting shortly. Have a look at the results and post your opinions/suggestions.


Final Thoughts can be found here: http://www.champman0102.co.uk/showthread.php?827-Research-Finding-a-new-job-abroad-by-Red9&p=17341#post17341

Patinoz
22-03-12, 10:33 PM
Current Ability and Potential Ability
For the first test I will be testing the effect of Current Ability (CA) and Potential Ability (PA) on finding a job abroad.

(The following test was carried out using MAR 2009 update)

For this test I loaded the English (foreground), Spanish, Italian, German and French (all background) leagues as in Challenge 4. I started with an English manager (Joe Bloggs) at Liverpool. I gave them a decent tactic and then went on holiday. . .

I returned 15 years later in February, by which time Liverpool had won the league 7 times, the Champions League twice and the domestic Cups a handful of times each - not brilliant but still decent.

This was my World Reputation at this point: Spoiler:
http://i38.tinypic.com/14ac37p.png





Now I saved the game and created 3 new save games from this one:
1 - my manager stats were left unchanged (Current Ability was 76 and Potential Ability was 130 - already very, very good - I've also had a CA/PA of 6/32 in another test!)
2 - I left the CA at 76 and increased the PA to 200
3 - I increased the CA and PA both to 200

Next, I loaded the first save and resigned as Liverpool manager. Then I brought the other leagues to the foreground and applied for all top-flight jobs (with a few exceptions eg Juventus who were in Serie B)

Whenever I was offered a job I rejected it and re-applied for all available jobs in the top flights around Europe.I did not re-apply to a club that had already offered me a job once.
I did not do this on holiday - I was actually playing.
This test was run from 6th February 2016 to 27th April 2016 (about 2 and a half months).
Then I saved, re-loaded and did the exact same test again with exactly the same variables to make sure it wasn't a one-off.
Then I saved again, re-loaded again and did the exact same test again with exactly the same variables just for good measure http://champman0102.co.uk/forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

Next, I made the changes mentioned above - I increased the PA to 200 without changing the CA. Then I ran the test again (3 times http://champman0102.co.uk/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif )
Finally, I increased both the CA and PA to 200 and ran the same test again (3 times).

The results are shown below including the teams that I applied for and the offers I received. I've also included a success rate percentage to take account of the different numbers of applications/offers etc.

* = club is not in the top tier of football in its country

Test 1

CA/PA - 76/130 (unchanged)
Home Rep - 10000
World Rep - 10000
Current Rep - 10000 (all unchanged)


Try 1

Jobs applied for - 39 Spoiler:

France
------
Auxerre
Bordeaux
Le Havre
Lille
Lyon
Marseille
Monaco
Montpellier
PSG*
Toulouse


Germany
-------
Hannover 96
Hertha Berlin
Frankfurt
Leverkusen*
Schalke
Werder Bremen


Italy
-----
Atalanta
Chievo
Empoli
Inter
Juventus*
Lazio
Livorno*
Milan
Palermo
Roma
Sampdoria
Torino*
Udinese


Spain
-----
Atletico Madrid
Barcelona
Celta Vigo
Deportivo
Espanyol
Villarreal
Valencia
R Madrid
Sevilla
Zaragoza



Job offers - 8 (Celta Vigo, Chievo, Empoli, Lazio, Livorno, Inter, Udinese, W Bremen)

Success Rate: 20.5%


----------------

Try 2

Jobs applied for - 27 Spoiler:

France
------
Auxerre
Bordeaux
Lille
Lyon
Marseille
Monaco


Germany
-------
Hannover 96
Hertha Berlin
Frankfurt
Schalke
Werder Bremen


Italy
-----
Inter
Juventus*
Lazio
Milan
Roma
Sampdoria
Udinese



Spain
-----
Atletico Madrid
Barcelona
Deportivo
Espanyol
Villarreal
Valencia
R Madrid
R Zaragoza
Sevilla



Job offers - 7 (Boreaux, Deportivo, Inter, Lazio, Marseille, R Zaragoza, Udinese)

Success Rate: 25.9%


---------------

Try 3

Jobs applied for - 29 Spoiler:

France
------
Auxerre
Bordeaux
Lens
Lille
Lyon
Marseille
Monaco


Germany
-------
Hannover 96
Hertha Berlin
HSV
Frankfurt
Schalke
Werder Bremen


Italy
-----
Inter
Juventus*
Lazio
Milan
Roma
Sampdoria
Udinese


Spain
-----
Atletico Madrid
Barcelona
Celta Vigo
Deportivo
Espanyol
Villarreal
Valencia
R Madrid
R Valladolid



Job Offers - 8 (Deportivo, Inter, Lazio, Lens, Marseille, R Volladolid, Udinese, W Bremen)

Success Rate: 27.6%

===========


Test 2

CA/PA - 76/200
Home Rep - 10000
World Rep - 10000
Current Rep - 10000

Try 1

Jobs applied for - 36 Spoiler:

France
------
Auxerre
Bordeaux
Lens*
Le Havre
Le Mans*
Lille
Lyon
Marseille
Monaco
PSG*
Toulouse


Germany
-------
Frankfurt
Hannover 96
Hertha Berlin
HSV
Schalke
W Bremen


Italy
-----
Atalanta
Inter
Juventus*
Lazio
Livorno*
Milan
Roma
Sampdoria
Torino*
Udinese


Spain
-----
Atletico Madrid
Barcelona
Celta Vigo
Deportivo
Espanyol
Villarreal
Valencia
R Madrid
R Valladolid



Job Offers - 8 (Celta Vigo, Deportivo, Inter, Lazio, Livorno, Le Mans, R Valladolid, Udinese)

Success Rate: 22.2%

------------


Try 2

Jobs applied for - 33 Spoiler:


France
------
Auxerre
Bordeaux
Le Havre
Lens*
Lille
Lyon
Marseille
Monaco
Montpellier
PSG*


Germany
-------
Hannover 96
Hertha Berlin
HSV
Frankfurt
Schalke
Werder Bremen


Italy
-----
Atalanta
Inter
Juventus*
Lazio
Milan
Roma
Sampdoria
Udinese


Spain
-----
Atletico Madrid
Barcelona
Celta Vigo
Deportivo
Espanyol
Villarreal
Valencia
R Madrid
R Valladolid



Job Offers - 6 (Celta Vigo, Inter, Lazio, Livorno, R Zaragoza, Udinese)

Success Rate: 18.2%

---------------


Try 3

Jobs applied for - 39 Spoiler:

France
------
Auxerre
Bordeaux
Caen*
Lens*
Le Havre
Le Mans*
Lille
Lyon
Marseille
Monaco
Montpellier
PSG*


Germany
-------
Dortmund*
Hannover 96
Hertha Berlin
HSV
Frankfurt
M'gladbach*
Schalke
Werder Bremen


Italy
-----
Atalanta
Chievo
Inter
Juventus*
Lazio
Milan
Roma
Sampdoria
Torino*
Udinese


Spain
-----
Atletico Madrid
Barcelona
Celta Vigo
Deportivo
Espanyol
Villarreal
Valencia
R Madrid
R Valladolid



Job Offers - 12 (Caen, Celta Vigo, Chievo, Deportivo, Inter, Lazio, Lens, Le Mans, Marseille, M'gladbach, R Valladolid, Udinese)

Success Rate: 30.8%

=====================


Test 3

CA/PA - 200/200
Home Rep - 10000
World Rep - 10000
Current Rep - 10000

Try 1

Jobs applied for - 35 Spoiler:

France
------
Auxerre
Bordeaux
Caen*
Lens*
Le Havre
Lille
Lyon
Marseille
Monaco
Montpellier


Germany
-------
Hannover 96
Hertha Berlin
HSV
Frankfurt
Schalke
W Bremen


Italy
-----
Inter
Juventus*
Lazio
Milan
Roma
Sampdoria
Udinese


Spain
-----
Atletico Madrid
Barcelona
Celta Vigo
Deportivo
Espanyol
Villarreal
Valencia
Recreativo*
R Madrid
R Sociedad
R Valladolid
R Zaragoza



Job Offers - 16 (AC Milan, Auxerre, Bordeaux, Caen, Celta Vigo, Deportivo, Hannover 96, Juventus, Lazio, Lens, Le Havre, Montpellier, Recreativo, Valladolid, W Bremen, Zaragoza)

Success Rate: 45.7%

----------------

Try 2

Jobs applied for - 37 Spoiler:

France
------
Auxerre
Bordeaux
Caen*
Le Havre
Le Mans*
Lille
Lyon
Marseille
Monaco
Montpellier


Germany
-------
Dortmund*
Hertha Berlin
HSV
Frankfurt
Nurnberg*
Schalke
Stuttgart
W Bremen


Italy
-----
Atalanta
Inter
Juventus*
Lazio
Livorno*
Milan
Roma
Sampdoria
Udinese



Spain
-----
Atletico Madrid
Barcelona
Celta Vigo
Deportivo
Espanyol
Numancia*
Villarreal
Valencia
R Madrid
R Sociedad
R Valladolid
R Zaragoza



Job Offers - 23 (AC Milan, Atalanta, Auxerre, Bordeaux, Caen, Celta Vigo, Deportivo x4, Inter, Juventus, Lazio x2, Le Havre, Le Mans, Livorno, Montpellier, Numancia, Stuttgart, Udinese, Valladolid, W Bremen)

Success Rate: 62.2%

--------------

Try 3

Jobs applied for - 33 Spoiler:

France
------
Auxerre
Bordeaux
Le Havre
Lille
Lyon
Marseille
Monaco
Montpellier


Germany
-------
Bielefeld
Dortmund*
Hannover 96
Hertha Berlin
HSV
Frankfurt
M'gladbach*
Schalke
W Bremen


Italy
-----
Atalanta
Inter
Juventus*
Lazio
Livorno*
Milan
Roma
Sampdoria
Torino*



Spain
-----
Atletico Madrid
Barcelona
Celta Vigo
Deportivo
Espanyol
Villarreal
Valencia
R Madrid
R Valladolid
R Zaragoza



Job Offers - 16 (Auxerre, Bielefeld, Bordeaux, B'gladbach, Celta Vigo, Deportivo, Inter, Juventus, Lazio, Le Havre, Montpellier, R Valladolid, Torino, Udinese x2, W Bremen)

Success Rate: 48.5%

======================


Average Success Rates:

CA/PA Success Rate

76/130 24.6%

76/200 23.7%

200/200 52.1%


======================

So, increasing the CA definitely improves the chances of getting a job. Unfortunately I was hoping that increasing only the PA would make a difference - my tests show that it didn't (I wouldn't read too much into the fact the overall percentage was lower for Test 2 due to many variables which I had no control over)

Thoughts?

Patinoz
22-03-12, 10:34 PM
I thought I'd take churky's advice and run a few more tests with different CAs and PAs. It's the same format/save as before

* = club is not in the top tier of football in its country


CA/PA - 100/100

Home Rep - 10000
World Rep - 10000
Current Rep - 10000


Try 1

Jobs applied for - 37 Spoiler:

France
------
Auxerre
Bordeaux
Dijon
Le Havre
Le Mans*
Lille
Lyon
Marseille
Monaco
Montpellier
PSG*


Germany
-------
Frankfurt
Hamburger
Hannover 96
Hertha Berlin
Schalke
W Bremen


Italy
-----
Atalanta
Chievo
Empoli
Inter
Juventus*
Lazio
Livorno*
Milan
Roma
Sampdoria
Udinese


Spain
-----
Atletico Madrid
Barcelona
Celta Vigo
Deportivo
Espanyol
Villarreal
Valencia
R Madrid
R Valladolid




Job offers - 8 (Celta, Deportivo, Inter, Lazio, Le Mans*, Livorno*, R Valladolid, Udinese,)

Success Rate: 21.6%


----------------

Try 2

Jobs applied for - 38 Spoiler:

France
------
Auxerre
Bordeaux
Dijon
Le Havre
Lille
Lyon
Marseille
Monaco
Montpellier
PSG*


Germany
-------
Frankfurt
Hamburger
Hannover 96
Hertha Berlin
Schalke
W Bremen


Italy
-----
Atalanta
Chievo
Empoli
Inter
Juventus*
Lazio
Livorno*
Milan
Roma
Sampdoria
Udinese


Spain
-----
Atletico Madrid
Barcelona
Celta Vigo
Deportivo
Espanyol
Villarreal
Valencia
R Madrid
R Valladolid
R Zaragoza
Sevilla




Job offers - 8 (Celta Vigo, Deportivo, Inter, Lazio, Livorno*, R Zaragoza, Udinese, W Bremen)

Success Rate: 21.1%

----------------

Try 3

Jobs applied for - 36 Spoiler:

France
------
Auxerre
Bordeaux
Dijon
Le Havre
Lille
Lyon
Marseille
Monaco
Montpellier
PSG*


Germany
-------
Frankfurt
Hamburger
Hannover 96
Hertha Berlin
Schalke
W Bremen


Italy
-----
Atalanta
Chievo
Empoli
Inter
Juventus*
Lazio
Livorno*
Milan
Roma
Sampdoria
Udinese


Spain
-----
Atletico Madrid
Barcelona
Celta Vigo
Deportivo
Espanyol
Villarreal
Valencia
R Madrid
R Valladolid




Job offers - 9 (Celta Vigo, Chievo, Deportivo, Inter, Lazio, Livorno*, PSG*, R Valladolid, Udinese)

Success Rate: 25.0%

----------------


Overall Average Success Rate for CA/PA 100/100: 22.6%
(Remeber the success rate for 200/200 was 52.1%)


Next test: CA/PA of 125/125

Patinoz
22-03-12, 10:35 PM
CA 125, PA 125, Maximum Reputations


CA/PA - 125/125

Home Rep - 10000
World Rep - 10000
Current Rep - 10000


Try 1

Jobs applied for - 34 Spoiler:

France
------
Auxerre
Bordeaux
Dijon
Le Havre
Lille
Lyon
Marseille
Monaco
Montpellier
PSG*


Germany
-------
Frankfurt
HSV
Hannover 96
Hertha Berlin
Schalke
W Bremen


Italy
-----
Atalanta
Chievo
Empoli
Inter
Juventus*
Lazio
Milan
Roma
Sampdoria
Udinese


Spain
-----
Atletico Madrid
Barcelona
Celta Vigo
Espanyol
Villarreal
Valencia
R Madrid
R Valladolid





Job offers - 10 (Celta Vigo, Inter, Juventus*, Lazio, Marseille, Montpellier, PSG*, R Valladolid, Udinese, W Bremen)

Success Rate: 29.4.%

----------------

Try 2

Jobs applied for - 35 Spoiler:

France
------
Auxerre
Bordeaux
Dijon
Le Havre
Lille
Lyon
Marseille
Monaco
Montpellier
PSG*


Germany
-------
Frankfurt
Hamburger
Hannover 96
Hertha Berlin
Schalke
W Bremen


Italy
-----
Atalanta
Chievo
Empoli
Inter
Juventus*
Lazio
Milan
Roma
Sampdoria
Udinese


Spain
-----
Atletico Madrid
Barcelona
Celta Vigo
Espanyol
Villarreal
Valencia
R Madrid
R Valladolid
Sevilla





Job offers - 9 (Celta Vigo, Inter, Juventus*, Lazio, Montpellier, R Valladolid, Sevilla, Udinese, W Bremen)

Success Rate: 25.7%

----------------

Try 3

Jobs applied for - 33 Spoiler:

France
------
Auxerre
Bordeaux
Le Havre
Lille
Lyon
Marseille
Monaco
Montpellier
PSG*


Germany
-------
Frankfurt
Hertha Berlin
Schalke 04
W Bremen


Italy
-----
Atalanta
Chievo
Empoli
Juventus*
Lazio
Livorno*
Milan
Roma
Sampdoria
Udinese


Spain
-----
Atletico Madrid
Barcelona
Celta Vigo
Deportivo
Espanyol
Villarreal
Valencia
R Madrid
R Valladolid
R Zaragoza





Job offers - 11 (Celta Vigo, Chievo, Deportivo, Juventus*, Lazio, Livorno*, Montpellier, R Valladolid, R Zaragoza, Udinese, W Bremen)

Success Rate: 33.3%

----------------


Overall Average Success Rate for CA/PA 125/125: 29.5%

======================

Average Success Rates:




CA/PA Success Rate

76/130 24.6%

76/200 23.7%

--------------------------

100/100 22.6%

125/125 29.5%

200/200 52.1%


======================
I think it's safe to assume that there's a pattern here


Next test: CA/PA of 150/150

Patinoz
22-03-12, 10:35 PM
CA 175, PA 175, Maximum Reputations

CA/PA - 175/175

Home Rep - 10000
World Rep - 10000
Current Rep - 10000

* = club not in the top tier of football in its country

Try 1

Jobs applied for - 36 Spoiler:

France
------
Auxerre
Bordeaux
Dijon
Le Havre
Lille
Lyon
Marseille
Monaco
Montpellier
PSG*


Germany
-------
Frankfurt
Hannover 96
Hertha Berlin
Schalke 04
W Bremen


Italy
-----
Atalanta
Chievo
Empoli
Inter
Juventus*
Lazio
Livorno*
Milan
Roma
Sampdoria
Udinese


Spain
-----
Atletico Madrid
Barcelona
Celta Vigo
Deportivo
Espanyol
Villarreal
Valencia
R Madrid
R Valladolid
R Zaragoza





Job offers - 17 (Auxerre, Bordeaux, Celta Vigo, Chievo, Deportivo, Dijon, Inter, Juventus*, Lazio, Le Havre, Livorno*, Montpellier, PSG*, Reggina, R Valladolid, Udinese, W Bremen)

Success Rate: 47.2%

----------------

Try 2

Jobs applied for - 32 Spoiler:

France
------
Auxerre
Bordeaux
Dijon
Le Havre
Lille
Lyon
Marseille
Monaco
Montpellier
PSG*


Germany
-------
Frankfurt
Hannover 96
Hertha Berlin
Schalke 04
W Bremen


Italy
-----
Atalanta
Chievo
Empoli
Inter
Juventus*
Lazio
Milan
Roma
Sampdoria
Udinese


Spain
-----
Atletico Madrid
Barcelona
Espanyol
Villarreal
Valencia
R Madrid
Sevilla





Job offers - 14 (Auxerre, Bordeaux, Chievo, Dijon, Inter, Juventus*, Lazio, Le Havre, Montpellier, PSG*, Reggina, Sevilla, Udinese, W Bremen)

Success Rate: 43.8%

----------------


Try 3

Jobs applied for - 37 Spoiler:

France
------
Auxerre
Bordeaux
Dijon
Le Havre
Lille
Lyon
Marseille
Monaco
Montpellier
Pau
PSG*


Germany
-------
Frankfurt
Hannover 96
Hertha Berlin
Schalke 04
W Bremen


Italy
-----
Atalanta
Chievo
Empoli
Inter
Juventus*
Lazio
Livorno*
Milan
Roma
Sampdoria
Torino*
Udinese


Spain
-----
Atletico Madrid
Barcelona
Celta Vigo
Deportivo
Espanyol
Villarreal
Valencia
R Madrid
Sevilla





Job offers - 18 (Auxerre, Bordeaux, Celta Vigo, Chievo, Deportivo, Dijon, Inter, Juventus*, Lazio, Le Havre, Livorno*, Marseille, Montpellier, Pau, Sevilla, Torino*, Udinese, W Bremen)

Success Rate: 48.6%

----------------


Overall Average Success Rate for CA/PA 175/175: 46.5%


Average Success Rates:




CA/PA Success Rate

76/130 24.6%

76/200 23.7%

--------------------------
100/100 22.6%

125/125 29.5%

150/150 35.0%

175/175 46.5%

200/200 52.1%

Next test: CA/PA of 125/200

Patinoz
22-03-12, 10:38 PM
CA 125, PA 200, Maximum Reputations


CA/PA - 125/200

Home Rep - 10000
World Rep - 10000
Current Rep - 10000

* = club not in the top tier of football in its country

Try 1

Jobs applied for - 35 Spoiler:

France
------
Auxerre
Bordeaux
Dijon
Le Havre
Le Mans
Lille
Lyon
Marseille
Monaco
Montpellier


Germany
-------
Frankfurt
Hannover 96
Hertha Berlin
HSV
Schalke 04
W Bremen


Italy
-----
Atalanta
Empoli
Inter
Juventus*
Lazio
Livorno*
Milan
Roma
Sampdoria
Udinese


Spain
-----
Atletico Madrid
Barcelona
Deportivo
Espanyol
Villarreal
Valencia
R Madrid
R Valladolid
R Zaragoza





Job offers - 14 (Deportivo, Dijon, Inter, Juventus*, Lazio, Le Mans*, Lille, Livorno*, Montpellier, PSG*, Reggina, R Valladolid, Udinese, W Bremen)

Success Rate: 40.0%

----------------

Try 2

Jobs applied for - 36 Spoiler:

France
------
Auxerre
Bordeaux
Dijon
Le Havre
Lille
Lyon
Marseille
Monaco
Montpellier
PSG*


Germany
-------
Frankfurt
Hannover 96
Hertha Berlin
HSV
Schalke
W Bremen


Italy
-----
Atalanta
Chievo
Empoli
Inter
Juventus*
Lazio
Milan
Roma
Sampdoria
Udinese


Spain
-----
Atletico Madrid
Barcelona
Celta Vigo
Deportivo
Espanyol
Villarreal
Valencia
R Madrid
R Zaragoza
R Valladolid





Job offers - 10 (Celta Vigo, Deportivo, Dijon, Inter, Juventus*, Lazio, Lille, Montpellier, R Valladolid, W Bremen)

Success Rate: 27.8%

----------------

Try 3

Jobs applied for - 34 Spoiler:

France
------
Auxerre
Bordeaux
Dijon
Le Havre
Lille
Lyon
Marseille
Monaco
Montpellier
PSG*


Germany
-------
Frankfurt
Hannover 96
Hertha Berlin
Schalke
W Bremen


Italy
-----
Atalanta
Chievo
Empoli
Inter
Juventus*
Lazio
Milan
Roma
Sampdoria
Udinese


Spain
-----
Atletico Madrid
Barcelona
Celta Vigo
Deportivo
Espanyol
Villarreal
Valencia
R Madrid
Sevilla





Job offers - 12 (AC Milan, Celta Vigo, Chievo, Deportivo, Inter, Juventus, Lazio, Lille, Montpellier, PSG*, Udinese, W Bremen)

Success Rate: 35.3%

----------------


Overall Average Success Rate for CA/PA 125/200: 34.4%


Average Success Rates:




CA/PA Success Rate

76/130 24.6%

76/200 23.7%

--------------------------

100/100 22.6%

125/125 29.5%

125/200 34.4%

150/150 35.0%

175/175 46.5%

200/200 52.1%

Interestingly, the success rate here was slightly higher than when the CA/PA was 125/125. Maybe PA does have some effect after all http://champman0102.co.uk/forum/images/smilies/confused.gif


Next test: CA/PA of 1/1. I'm going to see if I can get a job with a high reputation but poor CA/PA

Patinoz
22-03-12, 10:39 PM
CA 1, PA 1, Maximum Reputations


CA/PA - 1/1

Home Rep - 10000
World Rep - 10000
Current Rep - 10000

* = club not in the top tier of football in its country

Try 1

Jobs applied for - 36 Spoiler:

France
------
Auxerre
Bordeaux
Dijon
Le Havre
Lille
Lyon
Marseille
Monaco
Montpellier
PSG*


Germany
-------
Frankfurt
Hertha Berlin
HSV
Schalke 04
W Bremen


Italy
-----
Atalanta
Chievo
Empoli
Inter
Juventus*
Lazio
Milan
Roma
Sampdoria
Torino*
Udinese


Spain
-----
Atletico Madrid
Barcelona
Celta Vigo
Deportivo
Espanyol
Villarreal
Valencia
R Madrid
R Zaragoza
R Valladolid




Job offers - 3 (Inter, Lazio, Udinese)

Success Rate: 8.3%

----------------

Try 2


Jobs applied for - 37 Spoiler:

France
------
Auxerre
Bordeaux
Dijon
Le Havre
Lille
Lyon
Marseille
Monaco
Montpellier
PSG*
Toulouse


Germany
-------
Frankfurt
Hannover
Hertha Berlin
HSV
Schalke 04
W Bremen


Italy
-----
Atalanta
Chievo
Empoli
Inter
Juventus*
Lazio
Livorno*
Milan
Roma
Sampdoria
Udinese


Spain
-----
Atletico Madrid
Barcelona
Celta Vigo
Deportivo
Espanyol
Villarreal
Valencia
R Madrid
Sevilla




Job offers - 4 (Inter, Lazio, Toulouse, Udinese)

Success Rate: 10.8%

----------------


Try 3


Jobs applied for - 35 Spoiler:

France
------
Auxerre
Bordeaux
Dijon
Le Havre
Lille
Lyon
Marseille
Monaco
Montpellier
PSG*
Toulouse


Germany
-------
Frankfurt
Hannover 96
Hertha Berlin
HSV
Schalke 04
W Bremen


Italy
-----
Atalanta
Chievo
Empoli
Inter
Juventus*
Lazio
Milan
Roma
Sampdoria
Udinese


Spain
-----
Atletico Madrid
Barcelona
Deportivo
Espanyol
Villarreal
Valencia
R Madrid
Sevilla




Job offers - 5 (Inter, Lazio, Marseille, Toulouse, Udinese)

Success Rate: 14.3%

----------------



Overall Average Success Rate for CA/PA 1/1: 11.1%

So, it seems as though the Reputations play a very, very important role in getting a job - even if you're a lousy manager!
Also, Lazio, Inter and Udinese seem to hire anyone and everyone!




Average Success Rates:




CA/PA Success Rate

76/130 24.6%

76/200 23.7%

--------------------------

1/1 11.1%

100/100 22.6%

125/125 29.5%

125/200 34.4%

150/150 35.0%

175/175 46.5%

200/200 52.1%


Next tests: The opposite of this one - high CA/PA and low reputation

Patinoz
22-03-12, 10:41 PM
CA 150, PA 150, Minimum Reputations




CA/PA - 150/150

Home Rep - 1000
World Rep - 1000
Current Rep - 1000

This is my World Reputation in the game Spoiler:
http://i38.tinypic.com/2ro0zs9.png





* = club not in the top tier of football in its country

Try 1

Jobs applied for - 39 Spoiler:

France
------
Auxerre
Bordeaux
Dijon
Le Havre
Lille
Lyon
Marseille
Monaco
Montpellier
PSG*
Toulouse


Germany
-------
Frankfurt
Hannover 96
Hertha Berlin
HSV
Schalke 04
W Bremen


Italy
-----
Atalanta
Chievo
Empoli
Inter
Juventus*
Lazio
Livorno*
Milan
Roma
Sampdoria
Torino*
Udinese


Spain
-----
Atletico Madrid
Barcelona
Celta Vigo
Deportivo
Espanyol
Villarreal
Valencia
R Madrid
R Valladolid
R Zaragoza





Job offers - 0

Success Rate: 0.0%

----------------

Try 2


Jobs applied for - 36 Spoiler:

France
------
Auxerre
Bordeaux
Dijon
Le Havre
Lille
Lyon
Marseille
Monaco
Montpellier


Germany
-------
Frankfurt
Hertha Berlin
HSV
Schalke 04
W Bremen


Italy
-----
Atalanta
Chievo
Empoli
Inter
Juventus*
Lazio
Livorno*
Milan
Roma
Sampdoria
Torino*
Udinese


Spain
-----
Atletico Madrid
Barcelona
Celta Vigo
Deportivo
Espanyol
Villarreal
Valencia
R Madrid
R Valladolid
R Zaragoza




Job offers - 0

Success Rate: 0.0%

----------------

I didn't bother with a third try here - I think it's obvious I'm not going to get a job. Even Lazio, Inter and Udinese didn't offer me a job!



Overall Average Success Rate for CA/PA 150/150 with all reputations at 1000: 0%

So, just to compare, when I had maximum reputations and the same CA/PA (150/150) my success rate was 35.0%


Average Success Rates:




CA/PA tests with Maximum Reputations

CA/PA Success Rate

76/130 24.6%

76/200 23.7%

--------------------------

1/1 11.1%

100/100 22.6%

125/125 29.5%

125/200 34.4%

150/150 35.0%

175/175 46.5%

200/200 52.1%





Reputations' Test with CA/PA 150/150

Reputations Success Rate

Home 1000
World 1000
Current 1000 0.0%

Next test: Same CA/PA (150/150) and Home/Current Reputations but World Reputation increased to 5000

Patinoz
22-03-12, 10:46 PM
CA 150, PA 150, Home Rep 1000, WORLD REP 5000, Current Rep 1000


CA/PA - 150/150

Home Rep - 1000
World Rep - 5000
Current Rep - 1000

This is my World Reputation in the game Spoiler:
http://i36.tinypic.com/vxnneb.png





* = club not in the top tier of football in its country

Try 1

Jobs applied for - 36 Spoiler:

France
------
Auxerre
Bordeaux
Dijon
Le Havre
Lille
Lyon
Marseille
Monaco
Montpellier
PSG*


Germany
-------
Frankfurt
Hannover 96
Hertha Berlin
HSV
Schalke 04
W Bremen


Italy
-----
Atalanta
Empoli
Inter
Juventus*
Lazio
Livorno*
Milan
Roma
Sampdoria
Udinese


Spain
-----
Atletico Madrid
Barcelona
Celta Vigo
Deportivo
Espanyol
Villarreal
Valencia
R Madrid
R Zaragoza
Sevilla




Job offers - 1 (Lazio)

Success Rate: 2.8%

----------------

Try 2


Jobs applied for - 36 Spoiler:

France
------
Auxerre
Bordeaux
Dijon
Le Havre
Lille
Lyon
Marseille
Monaco
Montpellier
PSG*


Germany
-------
Frankfurt
Hannover 96
Hertha Berlin
HSV
Schalke 04
W Bremen


Italy
-----
Atalanta
Chievo
Empoli
Inter
Juventus*
Lazio
Livorno*
Milan
Roma
Sampdoria
Torino*
Udinese


Spain
-----
Atletico Madrid
Barcelona
Celta Vigo
Deportivo
Espanyol
Villarreal
Valencia
R Madrid
R Valladolid
R Zaragoza





Job offers - 2 (Lazio, W Bremen)

Success Rate: 5.6%

----------------


Try 3


Jobs applied for - 38 Spoiler:

France
------
Auxerre
Bordeaux
Dijon
Le Havre
Lille
Lyon
Marseille
Monaco
Montpellier
PSG*
Toulouse


Germany
-------
Frankfurt
Hannover 96
Hertha Berlin
HSV
Schalke 04
W Bremen


Italy
-----
Atalanta
Chievo
Empoli
Inter
Juventus*
Lazio
Livorno*
Milan
Roma
Sampdoria
Udinese


Spain
-----
Atletico Madrid
Barcelona
Celta Vigo
Deportivo
Espanyol
Villarreal
Valencia
R Madrid
R Zaragoza
Sevilla





Job offers - 1 (Lazio)

Success Rate: 2.6%

----------------


Overall Average Success Rate for CA/PA 150/150 with World Reputation of 5000 and Home/Current Reps at 1000: 3.7%




Average Success Rates:




CA/PA tests with Maximum Reputations

CA/PA Success Rate

76/130 24.6%

76/200 23.7%

--------------------------

1/1 11.1%

100/100 22.6%

125/125 29.5%

125/200 34.4%

150/150 35.0%

175/175 46.5%

200/200 52.1%


[CODE]
Reputations' Test with CA/PA 150/150

Reputations Success Rate
Home 1000
World 1000
Current 1000 0.0%

Home 1000
World 5000
Current 1000 3.7%
-------------------------


Next test: CA/PA of 150/150, Maximum World Reputation (10000), Home Reputation and Current Reputation still 1000

Patinoz
22-03-12, 10:48 PM
CA 150, PA 150, Home Rep 1000, WORLD REP 10000, Current Rep 1000


CA/PA - 150/150

Home Rep - 1000
World Rep - 10000
Current Rep - 1000

A little bit different this time. Alongside the clubs that I applied for (in the spoilers) I have included the stats for the manager that got the job instead of me. The stats are Nationality, World Rep, CA, PA. I've emboldened the ones that seemed odd to me
(for those interested in these kinds of nuances http://champman0102.co.uk/forum/images/smilies/tongue.gif)


* = club not in the top tier of football in its country

Try 1

Jobs applied for - 35 Spoiler:

France
------
Auxerre - FRA 4433 134 145
Bordeaux - FRA 3786 120 130
Dijon - FRA 3245 124 132
Le Havre - FRA 4279 138 150
Lille - SUCCESS
Lyon - FRA 1861 92 185
Marseille - FRA 6257 31 60
Monaco - FRA/ARM 3211 120 145
Montpellier - SUCCESS
Toulouse - SUCCESS


Germany
-------
Frankfurt - GER 6288 140 174
Hannover - GER 4914 0 167
Hertha Berlin - GER 4030 120 135
Schalke 04 - GER 4870 125 165
W Bremen - GER 4311 125 140


Italy
-----
Atalanta - ITA 5184 148 196
Chievo - SUCCESS
Empoli - ITA 4095 80 167
Inter - SUCCESS
Juventus* - SUCCESS
Lazio - SUCCESS
Milan - ITA 5111 95 140
Roma - GER/ITA 6098 148 170
Sampdoria - ITA 4143 137 163
Udinese - SUCCESS


Spain
-----
Atletico Madrid - ESP 8119 125 160
Barcelona - ESP 5680 120 150
Celta Vigo - SUCCESS
Deportivo - SUCCESS
Espanyol - ESP 5046 118 165
Villarreal - POR 9664 187 193
Valencia - ESP/PAY 6666 157 170
R Madrid - ESP 5582 110 164
R Zaragoza - SUCCESS
Sevilla - ESP/PAY 4036 105 130





Job offers - 12 (Bologna*, Celta Vigo, Chievo, Deportivo, Inter, Juventus*, Lazio, Lille, Montpellier, R Zaragoza, Toulouse, Udinese)

Success Rate: 34.3%

----------------

Try 2


Jobs applied for - 34 Spoiler:

France
------
Auxerre - FRA 4433 134 145
Bordeaux - FRA 3786 120 130
Dijon - SUCCESS
Le Havre - FRA 4279 138 150
Lille - SUCCESS
Lyon - FRA 1861 92 185
Marseille - SUCCESS
Monaco - FRA/ARM 3211 120 145
Montpellier - SUCCESS
PSG* - FRA/CON 7066 43 126


Germany
-------
Frankfurt - GER 6288 140 174
Hannover - GER 4914 0 167
Hertha Berlin - GER 4030 120 135
Schalke 04 - GER 4870 125 165
W Bremen - GER 3707 87 130


Italy
-----
Atalanta - ITA 5184 148 196
Chievo - SUCCESS
Empoli - ITA 4095 80 167
Inter - SUCCESS
Juventus* - SUCCESS
Lazio - SUCCESS
Milan - ITA 5111 95 140
Roma - GER/ITA 6098 148 170
Sampdoria - ITA 4143 137 163
Udinese - SUCCESS


Spain
-----
Atletico Madrid - ESP 8119 125 160
Barcelona - ESP 5680 120 150
Celta Vigo - SUCCESS
Deportivo - SUCCESS
Espanyol - ESP 5046 118 165
Villarreal - POR 9664 187 193
Valencia - ESP/PAY 6666 157 170
R Madrid - ESP 5582 110 164
R Valladolid - SUCCESS





Job offers - 15 (Bologna*, Celta Vigo, Chievo, Deportivo, Dijon, Inter, Juventus*, Lazio, Lille, Livorno*, Marseille, Metz, Montpellier, R Valladolid, Udinese)

Success Rate: 44.1%

----------------


Try 3


Jobs applied for - 34 Spoiler:

France
------
Auxerre - FRA 4433 134 145
Bordeaux - FRA 3786 120 130
Dijon - SUCCESS
Le Havre - FRA 4279 138 150
Lille - SUCCESS
Lyon - FRA 1861 92 185
Marseille - FRA 6257 31 60
Monaco - FRA/ARM 3211 120 145
Montpellier - FRA 4701 90 142
PSG* - FRA/CON 7066 43 126


Germany
-------
Frankfurt - GER 6288 140 174
Hannover 96 - GER 3517 100 115
Hertha Berlin - GER 4030 120 135
Schalke 04 - GER 4870 125 165
W Bremen - SUCCESS


Italy
-----
Atalanta - ITA 5184 148 196
Chievo - ITA 2985 122 130
Empoli - ITA 4095 80 167
Inter - SUCCESS
Juventus* - SUCCESS
Lazio - SUCCESS
Milan - ITA 5111 95 140
Roma - GER/ITA 6098 148 170
Sampdoria - ITA 4143 137 163
Udinese - SUCCESS


Spain
-----
Atletico Madrid - ESP 8119 125 160
Barcelona - ESP 5680 120 150
Celta Vigo - SUCCESS
Deportivo - SUCCESS
Espanyol - ESP 5046 118 165
Villarreal - POR 9664 187 193
Valencia - ESP/PAY 6666 157 170
R Madrid - ESP 5582 110 164
Sevilla - ESP/PAY 4036 105 130





Job offers - 10 (Ascoli*, Celta Vigo, Deportivo, Dijon, Inter, Juventus*, Lazio, Lille, Udinese, W Bremen)

Success Rate: 29.4%

----------------



Overall Average Success Rate for CA/PA 150/150 with Maximum World Reputation and 1000 for Home/Current Reputations: 35.9%



Average Success Rates:




CA/PA tests with Maximum Reputations

CA/PA Success Rate

76/130 24.6%

76/200 23.7%

--------------------------

1/1 11.1%

100/100 22.6%

125/125 29.5%

125/200 34.4%

150/150 35.0%

175/175 46.5%

200/200 52.1%




Reputations' Test with CA/PA 150/150

Reputations Success Rate

Home 1000
World 1000
Current 1000 0.0%

Home 1000
World 5000
Current 1000 3.7%

Home 1000
World 10000
Current 1000 35.9%

I think it's quite obvious that even the AI managers have a difficult time moving abroad. In these tests only one manager was successful in getting a job in a foreign country. That was Jose Mourinho to Villareal and he has almost maximum attributes for reputations and CA/PA - there's a lesson in there for us I think.



Next test: Same test as this one but with current reputation increased from 1000 to 5000. (If someone thinks that that is pointless please say so http://champman0102.co.uk/forum/images/smilies/thumb.gif )

Patinoz
22-03-12, 10:50 PM
CA 150, PA 150, Home Rep 1000, WORLD REP 10000, CURRENT REP 5000


CA/PA - 150/150

Home Rep - 1000
World Rep - 10000
Current Rep - 5000


As before, I've included the stats of the managers that got the job instead of me. The stats are Nationality, World Rep, CA, PA



* = club not in the top tier of football in its country

Try 1

Jobs applied for - 34 Spoiler:

France
------
Auxerre - FRA 4433 134 145
Bordeaux - FRA 3786 120 130
Le Havre - FRA 4279 138 150
Lille - SUCCESS
Lyon - FRA 1861 92 185
Marseille - FRA 6257 31 60
Monaco - FRA/ARM 3211 120 145
Montpellier - SUCCESS
PSG* - FRA/CON 7066 43 126


Germany
-------
Frankfurt - GER 6288 140 174
Hannover 96 - GER 4801 145 160
Hertha Berlin - GER 4030 120 135
Schalke 04 - GER 4870 125 165
W Bremen - SUCCESS


Italy
-----
Atalanta - ITA 5184 148 196
Chievo - ITA 2985 122 130
Empoli - ITA 4095 80 167
Inter - SUCCESS
Juventus* - SUCCESS
Lazio - SUCCESS
Milan - ITA 5111 95 140
Roma - GER/ITA 6098 148 170
Sampdoria - ITA 4143 137 163
Torino* - ITA 3183 92 185
Udinese - SUCCESS


Spain
-----
Atletico Madrid - ESP 8119 125 160
Barcelona - ESP 5680 120 150
Celta Vigo - SUCCESS
Deportivo - SUCCESS
Espanyol - ESP 5046 118 165
Villarreal - POR 9664 187 193
Valencia - ESP/PAY 6666 157 170
R Madrid - ESP 5582 110 164
Sevilla - ESP/PAY 4036 105 130





Job offers - 10 (Bologna*, Celta Vigo, Deportivo, Inter, Juventus, Lazio, Lille, Montpellier, Udinese, W Bremen)

Success Rate: 29.4%

----------------

Try 2


Jobs applied for - 34 Spoiler:

France
------
Auxerre - FRA 4433 134 145
Bordeaux - FRA 3786 120 130
Dijon - FRA 3245 124 132
Le Havre - FRA 4279 138 150
Lille - SUCCESS
Lyon - FRA 1861 92 185
Marseille - SUCCESS
Monaco - FRA/ARM 3211 120 145
Montpellier - SUCCESS
PSG* - ??? Spoiler:
http://i36.tinypic.com/2s6sg2s.jpg





Germany
-------
Frankfurt - GER 6288 140 174
Hannover - GER 4914 0 167
Hertha Berlin - GER 4030 120 135
HSV - [/b]GER 6480 -13 101[/b] (similar to PSG manager)
Schalke 04 - GER 4870 125 165
W Bremen - SUCCESS


Italy
-----
Atalanta - ITA 5184 148 196
Empoli - ITA 4095 80 167
Inter - SUCCESS
Juventus* - SUCCESS
Lazio - SUCCESS
Milan - ITA 5111 95 140
Roma - GER/ITA 6098 148 170
Sampdoria - ITA 4143 137 163
Udinese - SUCCESS


Spain
-----
Atletico Madrid - ESP 8119 125 160
Barcelona - ESP 5680 120 150
Celta Vigo - SUCCESS
Deportivo - SUCCESS
Espanyol - ESP 5046 118 165
Villarreal - POR 9664 187 193
Valencia - ESP/PAY 6666 157 170
R Madrid - ESP 5582 110 164
Sevilla - ESP/PAY 4036 105 130





Job offers - 12 (Bologna*, Celta Vigo, Deportivo, Inter, Juventus*, Lazio, Lille, Marseille, Montpellier, Ternana, Udinese, W Bremen)

Success Rate: 35.3%

----------------


Try 3


Jobs applied for - 35 Spoiler:

France
------
Auxerre - FRA 4433 134 145
Bordeaux - FRA 3786 120 130
Dijon - SUCCESS
Le Havre - FRA 4279 138 150
Lille - SUCCESS
Lyon - FRA 1861 92 185
Marseille - FRA 2970 85 170
Monaco - FRA/ARM 3211 120 145
Montpellier - SUCCESS


Germany
-------
Frankfurt - GER 6288 140 174
Hannover 96 - GER 4914 0 167
Hertha Berlin - GER 4030 120 135
Schalke 04 - GER 4870 125 165
W Bremen - GER 3707 87 130


Italy
-----
Atalanta - ITA 5184 148 196
Chievo - SUCCESS
Empoli - ITA 4095 80 167
Inter - SUCCESS
Juventus* - SUCCESS
Lazio - SUCCESS
Livorno* - SUCCESS
Milan - ITA 5111 95 140
Roma - GER/ITA 6098 148 170
Sampdoria - ITA 4143 137 163
Udinese - SUCCESS


Spain
-----
Atletico Madrid - ESP 8119 125 160
Barcelona - ESP 5680 120 150
Celta Vigo
Deportivo - SUCCESS
Espanyol - ESP 5046 118 165
Villarreal - POR 9664 187 193
Valencia - ESP/PAY 6666 157 170
R Madrid - ESP 5582 110 164
R Valladolid - SUCCESS
R Zaragoza - ESP 6059 175 186





Job offers - 12 (Bologna*, Chievo, Deportivo, Dijon, Inter, Juventus*, Lazio, Lille, Livorno*, Montpellier, R Valladolid, Udinese)

Success Rate: 34.3%

----------------



Overall Average Success Rate for CA/PA 150/150, World Rep 10000, Current Rep 5000 and Home Rep 1000: 33%



Average Success Rates:




CA/PA tests with Maximum Reputations (Home, Current and World reps all on 10000)

CA/PA Success Rate

76/130 24.6%

76/200 23.7%

--------------------------

1/1 11.1%

100/100 22.6%

125/125 29.5%

125/200 34.4%

150/150 35.0%

175/175 46.5%

200/200 52.1%




Reputations' Test with CA/PA 150/150

Reputations Success Rate

Home 1000
World 1000
Current 1000 0.0%

Home 1000
World 5000
Current 1000 3.7%

Home 1000
World 10000
Current 1000 35.9%

Home 1000
World 10000
Current 5000 33.0%

Has anyone seen the minus values for manager CA before? (see PSG and HSV managers in Try 2)


Next test: Similar to this one but with World and Current Reps at maximum value (10000) with Home rep still at 1000

Patinoz
22-03-12, 10:52 PM
CA 150, PA 150, Home Rep 1000, WORLD REP 10000, CURRENT REP 10000


CA/PA - 150/150

Home Rep - 1000
World Rep - 10000
Current Rep - 10000

* = club not in the top tier of football in its country
The numbers next to the teams are the Nationality, World Rep, CA and PA of the manager that got the job instead of me


Try 1

Jobs applied for - 37 Spoiler:

France
------
Auxerre - FRA 4433 134 145
Bordeaux - FRA 3786 120 130
Dijon - FRA 3245 124 132
Le Havre - FRA 4279 138 150
Lille - SUCCESS
Lyon - FRA 1861 92 185
Marseille - FRA 6257 31 60
Monaco - FRA/ARM 3211 120 145
Montpellier - SUCCESS
PSG* - FRA 4330 124 170


Germany
-------
Frankfurt - GER 6288 140 174
Hannover 96 - GER 4801 145 160
Hertha Berlin - GER 4030 120 135
Schalke 04 - GER 4870 125 165
W Bremen - SUCCESS


Italy
-----
Atalanta - ITA 5184 148 196
Chievo - ITA 2985 122 130
Empoli - ITA 4095 80 167
Inter - SUCCESS
Juventus* - SUCCESS
Lazio - SUCCESS
Milan - ITA 5111 95 140
Roma - ITA 5141 155 155
Sampdoria - GER/ITA 6098 148 170
Torino* - ITA 3183 92 185
Udinese - SUCCESS


Spain
-----
Atletico Madrid - ESP 8119 125 160
Barcelona - ESP 5482 156 164
Celta V - SUCCESS
Deportivo - SUCCESS
Espanyol - ESP 5046 118 165
Villarreal - ESP 5680 120 150
Valencia - ESP/PAY 6666 157 170
R Madrid - ESP 5582 110 164
R Valladolid - SUCCESS
R Zaragoza - SUCCESS
Sevilla - SUCCESS





Job offers - 13 (Celta, Deportivo, Inter, Juventus*, Lazio, Lecce, Lille, Montpellier, R Valladolid, R Zaragoza, Sevilla, Udinese, W Bremen)

Success Rate: 35.1%

----------------

Try 2


Jobs applied for - 33 Spoiler:

France
------
Auxerre - FRA 4433 134 145
Bordeaux - FRA 3786 120 130
Dijon - FRA 3245 124 132
Le Havre - FRA 4279 138 150
Lille - SUCCESS
Lyon - FRA 1861 92 185
Marseille - FRA 6257 31 60
Monaco - FRA/ARM 3211 120 145
Montpellier - SUCCESS
PSG* - FRA 1858 -14 60


Germany
-------
Frankfurt - GER 6288 140 174
Hannover 96 - GER 3599 120 145
Hertha Berlin - GER 4030 120 135
Schalke 04 - GER 4870 125 165
W Bremen - SUCCESS


Italy
-----
Atalanta - ITA 5184 148 196
Chievo - ITA 2985 122 130
Empoli - ITA 4095 80 167
Inter - SUCCESS
Juventus* - SUCCESS
Lazio - SUCCESS
Milan - ITA 5111 95 140
Roma - ITA 5141 155 155
Sampdoria - GER/ITA 6098 148 170
Udinese - SUCCESS


Spain
-----
Atletico Madrid - ESP 8119 125 160
Barcelona - ESP 5482 156 164
Celta Vigo - SUCCESS
Espanyol - ESP 5046 118 165
Villarreal - POR 9664 187 193
Valencia - ESP/PAY 6666 157 170
R Madrid - ESP 5582 110 164
R Valladolid - SUCCESS





Job offers - 9 (Celta Vigo, Inter, Juventus*, Lazio, Lecce, Lille, Montpellier, R Valladolid, W Bremen)

Success Rate: 27.3%

----------------


Try 3


Jobs applied for - 34 Spoiler:

France
------
Auxerre - FRA 4433 134 145
Bordeaux - FRA 3786 120 130
Dijon - FRA 3245 124 132
Le Havre - FRA 4279 138 150
Lille - SUCCESS
Lyon - FRA 1861 92 185
Marseille - FRA 6257 31 60
Monaco - FRA/ARM 3211 120 145
Montpellier - SUCCESS


Germany
-------
Frankfurt - GER 6288 140 174
Hertha Berlin - GER 4030 120 135
Schalke 04 - GER 4870 125 165
W Bremen - SUCCESS


Italy
-----
Atalanta - ITA 5184 148 196
Chievo - SUCCESS
Empoli - ITA 4095 80 167
Inter - SUCCESS
Juventus* - SUCCESS
Lazio - SUCCESS
Livorno* - SUCCESS
Milan - ITA 5111 95 140
Roma - ITA 5141 155 155
Sampdoria - ITA 4143 137 163
Udinese - SUCCESS


Spain
-----
Atletico Madrid - ESP 8119 125 160
Barcelona - ESP 5482 156 164
Celta V - SUCCESS
Deportivo - SUCCESS
Espanyol - ESP 5046 118 165
Villarreal - POR 9664 187 193
Valencia - ESP/PAY 6666 157 170
R Madrid - ESP 5582 110 164
R Zaragoza - SUCCESS
Sevilla - ESP/PAY 4036 105 130





Job offers - 14 (Celta Vigo, Chievo, Deportivo, Inter, Juventus*, Lazio, Lille, Livorno*, Mallorca, Montpellier, R Zaragoza, Siena, Udinese, W Bremen)

Success Rate: 41.2%

----------------



Overall Average Success Rate for CA/PA 150/150, World and Current Reputations at 10000 and Home Reputation at 1000: 34.5%


Average Success Rates:




CA/PA tests with Maximum Reputations (Home, Current and World reps all on 10000)

CA/PA Success Rate

76/130 24.6%

76/200 23.7%

--------------------------

1/1 11.1%

100/100 22.6%

125/125 29.5%

125/200 34.4%

150/150 35.0%

175/175 46.5%

200/200 52.1%




Reputations' Test with CA/PA 150/150

Reputations Success Rate

Home 1000
World 1000
Current 1000 0.0%

Home 1000
World 5000
Current 1000 3.7%

Home 1000
World 10000
Current 1000 35.9%

Home 1000
World 10000
Current 5000 33.0%

Home 1000
World 10000
Current 10000 34.5%

So it seems as though Current Reputation does not have any effect on getting a job abroad. Only World reputation is important.

On a separate and somewhat confusing note:
In many of my tests (not just this one) Sebastien Frey and Craig Gordon have been offered jobs abroad even though there doesn't seem to be any obvious reason for it. Neither of them has a second nationality.
Sebastien Frey normally gets a job in France but sometimes he gets the Inter job (after I reject it). He is fluent in Italian but other than that there doesn't seem to be any reason why he should be getting the job. His stats: Spoiler:
http://i38.tinypic.com/33jh7yw.jpg





Unlike Frey, Craig Gordon gets the Werder Bremen job almost all the time! He is fluent in German somehow (he has never played there) and these are his stats: Spoiler:
http://i35.tinypic.com/2aep383.jpg



I have yet to work out why Gordon gets the Bremen job - maybe it is purely to do with the fact that he can speak the language http://champman0102.co.uk/forum/images/smilies/noidea.gif




Next test: Nationalities

Patinoz
22-03-12, 10:54 PM
CA/PA and Reputations Conclusions
Conclusions regarding CA/PA and reputations

It's obvious that raising the Current Ability increases the chances of getting a job abroad.
Potential Ability does have an affect but not as much as CA.

The success of a job abroad is all based on the World Reputation of the manager. Even if you have a great CA/PA you're not going to get a job abroad. (If a foreign chairman doesn't know about you he's not going to hire you!)

Current Reputation deosn't seem to have much of an effect.

If you are no.1 in the world rankings and still not getting a job abroad it is probably because your CA/PA is too low. Increasing this to even a modest figure (eg 100/125 or 125/125) will have an effect.


More to follow after the next set of test results regarding nationalities . . .

Patinoz
22-03-12, 10:55 PM
up to post 62 (old forum)

Patinoz
27-04-12, 09:22 AM
Nationality - Spain, CA 125, PA 125, Maximum Reputations


Nationality:
1st: Spain
2nd: -

CA/PA - 125/125

Home Rep - 10000
World Rep - 10000
Current Rep - 10000

* = club not in the top tier of football in its country

Try 1

Jobs applied for - 37 Spoiler:

France
------
Auxerre - FRA 4433 134 145
Bordeaux - FRA 3786 120 130
Dijon - FRA 3245 124 132
Le Havre - FRA 4279 138 150
Lille - FRA 3124 125 140
Lyon - FRA 1861 92 185
Marseille - FRA 6257 31 60
Monaco - FRA/ARM 3211 120 145
Montpellier - SUCCESS
PSG* - FRA 1858 -14 60
Toulouse - SUCCESS


Germany
-------
Frankfurt - GER 6288 140 174
Hannover 96 - GER 4845 112 145
Hertha Berlin - GER 4030 120 135
Schalke 04 - GER 4870 125 165
W Bremen - SUCCESS


Italy
-----
Atalanta - ITA 5184 148 196
Chievo - SUCCESS
Empoli - ITA 4095 80 167
Inter - ITA 3585 120 191
Juventus* - SUCCESS
Lazio - SUCCESS
Livorno* - SUCCESS
Milan - ITA 5111 95 140
Roma - GER/ITA 6098 148 170
Sampdoria - ITA 4143 137 163
Udinese - SUCCESS


Spain
-----
Atletico Madrid - SUCCESS
Barcelona - SUCCESS
Celta Vigo - SUCCESS
Deportivo - SUCCESS
Espanyol - SUCCESS
Villarreal - SUCCESS
Valencia - SUCCESS
R Madrid - SUCCESS
R Valladolid - SUCCESS
R Zaragoza - SUCCESS





Job offers - 17 (Atletico Madrid, Barcelona, Celta Vigo, Chievo, Deportivo, Espanyol, Juventus*, Lazio, Livorno*, Montpellier, Real Madrid, Real Valladolid, Real Zaragoza, Valencia, Villareal, Udinese, W Bremen)

Success Rate: 45.9%

----------------

Try 2


Jobs applied for - 34 Spoiler:

France
------
Auxerre - FRA 4433 134 145
Bordeaux - FRA 3786 120 130
Dijon - FRA 3245 124 132
Le Havre - FRA 4279 138 150
Lille - FRA 3124 125 140
Lyon - FRA 1861 92 185
Marseille - FRA 6257 31 60
Monaco - FRA/ARM 3211 120 145
Montpellier - SUCCESS
PSG* - SUCCESS


Germany
-------
Frankfurt - GER 6288 140 174
Hannover 96 - GER 4845 112 145
Hertha Berlin - GER 4030 120 135
Schalke 04 - GER 4870 125 165
W Bremen - GER 2996 108 145


Italy
-----
Atalanta - ITA 5184 148 196
Chievo - SUCCESS
Empoli - ITA 4095 80 167
Inter - ITA 3585 120 191
Juventus* - SUCCESS
Lazio - SUCCESS
Livorno* - SUCCESS
Milan - ITA 5111 95 140
Roma - GER/ITA 6098 148 170
Sampdoria - ITA 4143 137 163
Udinese - SUCCESS


Spain
-----
Atletico Madrid - SUCCESS
Barcelona - SUCCESS
Celta Vigo - SUCCESS
Espanyol - SUCCESS
Villarreal - SUCCESS
Valencia - SUCCESS
R Madrid - SUCCESS
Sevilla - SUCCESS





Job offers - 15 (At Madrid, Barcelona, Celta Vigo, Chievo, Espanyol, Juventus*, Lazio, Livorno*, Montpellier, PSG*, R Madrid, Sevilla, Valencia, Villareal, Udinese)

Success Rate: 44.1%

----------------


Try 3


Jobs applied for - 34 Spoiler:

France
------
Auxerre - FRA 4433 134 145
Bordeaux - FRA 3786 120 130
Dijon - SUCCESS
Le Havre - FRA 4279 138 150
Lille - FRA 3124 125 140
Lyon - FRA 1861 92 185
Marseille - FRA 6257 31 60
Monaco - FRA/ARM 3211 120 145
Montpellier - SUCCESS
PSG* - FRA 1858 -14 60


Germany
-------
Frankfurt - GER 6288 140 174
Hannover 96 - GER 4845 112 145
Hertha Berlin - GER 4030 120 135
Schalke 04 - GER 4870 125 165
W Bremen - SUCCESS


Italy
-----
Atalanta - ITA 5184 148 196
Chievo - SUCCESS
Empoli - ITA 4095 80 167
Inter - ITA 3585 120 191
Juventus* - SUCCESS
Lazio - SUCCESS
Livorno* - ITA 2985 122 130
Milan - SUCCESS
Roma - GER/ITA 6098 148 170
Sampdoria - ITA 4143 137 163
Udinese - SUCCESS


Spain
-----
Atletico Madrid - SUCCESS
Barcelona - SUCCESS
Celta Vigo - SUCCESS
Deportivo - SUCCESS
Espanyol - SUCCESS
Villarreal - SUCCESS
Valencia - SUCCESS
R Madrid - SUCCESS





Job offers - 17 (At Madrid, Barcelona, Celta V, Chievo, Deportivo, Dijon, Espanyol, Juventus, Lazio, Milan, Montpellier, Rayo, R Madrid, Udinese, Valencia, Villareal, W Bremen)

Success Rate: 50.0%

----------------

Fantastic! I got every single job in Spain that I applied for including the Barcelona and R Madrid jobs. I didn't get these jobs even with a CA/PA of 200/200!
It's also interesting to note that I was appointed the manager of many clubs in Spain even though I had a lower CA/PA than the other managers. I had a higher World Reputation though.

Overall Average Success Rate for CA/PA 125/125 with maximum reputations and Spanish 1st nationality: 46.7%



Average Success Rates:




CA/PA tests with Maximum Reputations (Home, Current and World reps all on 10000)

CA/PA Success Rate

76/130 24.6%

76/200 23.7%

--------------------------

1/1 11.1%

100/100 22.6%

125/125 29.5%

Spanish Nat.
125/125 46.7%

125/200 34.4%

150/150 35.0%

175/175 46.5%

200/200 52.1%




Reputations' Test with CA/PA 150/150

Reputations Success Rate

Home 1000
World 1000
Current 1000 0.0%

Home 1000
World 5000
Current 1000 3.7%

Home 1000
World 10000
Current 1000 35.9%

Home 1000
World 10000
Current 5000 33.0%

Home 1000
World 10000
Current 10000 34.5%

Coming next: more tests with different nationalities . . .

Patinoz
27-04-12, 09:25 AM
Comparison of Spanish Clubs' Jobs Offers
A few stats comparing the success rate of applying for Spanish clubs when changing the nationality from English to Spanish.
The first column contains the club applied for.
The second column shows how many times I was given the job and how many times I had applied whilst being an English manager.
The third column shows how many times I was given the job and how many times I had applied whilst being an Spanish manager.

CA: 125
PA: 125 (both the same for ENG and ESP nationalities)

Reputations: all maximum (10000)




Nationality: English Nationality: Spanish

Club: Offers/Applications Offers/Applications
Atletico Madrid 0/3 3/3
Barcelona 0/3 3/3
Celta Vigo 3/3 3/3
Deportivo 2/2 2/2
Espanyol 0/3 3/3
Villareal 0/3 3/3
Valencia 0/3 3/3
Real Madrid 0/3 3/3
Real Valladolid 3/3 1/1
Real Zaragoza 1/1 1/1
Sevilla 1/1 1/1

Total Success Ratio: 10/28 26/26

Percentage: 35.7% 100.00%

Patinoz
27-04-12, 09:27 AM
Second Nationalities
I also ran a few tests with the same save game to see if it would affect the chances of getting a job if France/Spain was a 2nd nationality instead of a 1st one.

Test 1
Nationalities: 1st England, 2nd Spain
(CA/PA 125/125. All reputations maximum)

As before, I applied for every top-flight job in Spain.

Result: I was still offered every single job in Spain, including Barcelona and Real Madrid.


Test 2
Nationalities: 1st England, 2nd France
(CA/PA 125/125. All reputations maximum)

Same test as above but this time in France

Result: Another clean sweep.


I'm going to test this further but I'm pretty sure that whether you have the nationality as your 1st or your 2nd it will not make a difference.

Patinoz
27-04-12, 09:28 AM
First/Second Nationalities, Lower abilities, Maximum Reputations
Test 1

Nationalities: 1st France, 2nd none
CA/PA 100/100, Maximum Reputations

In this test I reduced the CA/PA to just 100/100. This meant that I would be competing with managers who would have much higher CA/PAs than me. Would I be able to get the job ahead of them based on my reputations alone?

Result: Yes! I was offered every single job in France even though my CA/PA was much lower than many of the other managers



Test 2

Nationilities: 1st England, 2nd France
CA/PA 100/100, Maximum Reputations

I changed my France nationality to 2nd reducing my chances of a job further. So, I had a low CA/PA of 100/100, a second nationality of French but still a high reputation.

Result: I was once again offered every top-flight job in France.



Test 3

For this test I changed my second nationality to Spain (1st nationality English) and ran the test in Spain with the same results.



As I said, I'll be testing this on a different save game altogether now as well as running some tests with languages

(btw all of these tests were done more than once - they were not one-offs http://champman0102.co.uk/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif )

Patinoz
27-04-12, 09:28 AM
Nationalities and Languages Tests
I will be returning to this save game later on for more tests.

I started another game (to make sure that the save game wasn't a one-off)

Selected Leagues: England, Italy and Spain
Manager Name: David Goliath
Nationality: Spain

I started at Barcelona, selected a decent tactic and went on holiday until 2005.
Then I returned from holiday.

Landmarks: Spoiler:
http://i37.tinypic.com/2ai32ir.png





World Reputation: Spoiler:
http://i34.tinypic.com/sd1moy.png





Manager stats: Spoiler:
http://i37.tinypic.com/2wewdap.jpg






Then I ran similar tests to the previous save game. All tests were done without changing the CA/PA or the reputations. Only the nationalities were changed;


Test 1 -
Nationality (first): Italy
Nationality (second): -
Applied for jobs in: Italy

Success Rate: 69.2%






Test 2 -
Nationality (first): England
Nationality (second): -
Applied for jobs in: Italy

Success Rate: 15.4%







Test 3 -
Nationality (first): England
Nationality (second): Italy
Applied for jobs in: Italy

Success Rate: 69.2%







Test 4 -
Nationality (first): San Marino (first language Italian, Game importance 4, Developed, Lge Standard 3, Reputation 4)
Nationality (second): -
Applied for jobs in: Italy

Success Rate: 53.8%







Test 5a -
Nationality (first): Somalia (second language Italian, Game importance 4, 3rd World, Lge Standard 1, Reputation 1)
Nationality (second): -
Applied for jobs in: Italy

Success Rate: 0.0%


Test 5b -
Nationality (first): Somalia
Nationality (second): Italy
Applied for jobs in: Italy

Success Rate: 0.0%






Test 6a -
Nationality (first): Libya (third language Italian, Game importance 4, Developing, Lge Standard 6, Reputation 7)
Nationality (second): -
Applied for jobs in: Italy

Success Rate: 0.0%


Test 6b -
Nationality (first): Libya
Nationality (second): Italy
Applied for jobs in: Italy

Success Rate: 38.5%





Test 7a -
Nationality (first): Switzerland (third language Italian, Game importance 3, Developed, Lge Standard 11, Reputation 13)
Nationality (second): -
Applied for jobs in: Italy

Success Rate: 15.4%


Test 7b -
Nationality (first): Switzerland
Nationality (second): Italy
Applied for jobs in: Italy

Success Rate: 69.2%




Test 8a -
Nationality (first): Malta (third language Italian, Game importance 4, Developing, Lge Standard 4, Reputation 6)
Nationality (second): -
Applied for jobs in: Italy

Success Rate: 0.0%


Test 8b -
Nationality (first): Malta
Nationality (second): Italy
Applied for jobs in: Italy

Success Rate: 38.5%
----------------------------------

I suppose the weirdest thing was that I didn't get a single job with a Somalian nationality even when I had a second Italian nationality. It looks as though the reputation/lge standard has an effect as well.


I'm going to try similar tests in England next - there are a lot more countries to choose from. This should give me more variables eg first/second/third nationalities, league standards, reputations etc.

Patinoz
27-04-12, 09:29 AM
More tests including Nation Development
Another test

Manager: David Goliath
CA/PA: 46/96
Manager of Barcelona in Spain

Home rep: 4978
Current rep: 4904
World rep: 4702

Job applied for: All available jobs in England

The different nationalities I applied for are across the top and the teams/divisions are down the left-hand side. I've also included the stats for each country under the table

I applied with Nigerian nationality 3 times, changing the development stage from 'Third world' to 'developing' and then to 'developed' to see what effect this would have.

key:
1 = offered job
- = not offered job

http://i37.tinypic.com/s4unpd.jpg


1st Nation: England (Game importance 1, Developed, Lge Standard 18, Reputation 16)
2nd Nation: -
Success rt: 83.3%

1st Nation: Wales (First language English, Game importance 3, Developed , Lge Standard 4, Reputation 10)
2nd Nation: -
Success rt: 83.3%

1st Nation: Australia (First language English, Game importance 3, Developed , Lge Standard 10, Reputation 11)
2nd Nation: -
Success rt: 46.7%

1st Nation: Republic of Ireland (First language English, Game importance 3, Developed , Lge Standard 7, Reputation 12)
2nd Nation: -
Success rt: 81.7%

1st Nation: Argentina (No English Language, Game importance 1, Developing, Lge Standard 13, Reputation 18)
2nd Nation:
Success rt: 26.7%

1st Nation: Brazil (No English Language, Game importance 1, Developing, Lge Standard 14, Reputation 19)
2nd Nation:
Success rt: 26.7%

1st Nation: Nigeria (First language English, Game importance 2, Third World , Lge Standard 8, Reputation 13)
2nd Nation: -
Success rt: 10%

1st Nation: Nigeria (First language English, Game importance 2, Developing, Lge Standard 8, Reputation 13)
2nd Nation:
Success rt: 31.7%

1st Nation: Nigeria (First language English, Game importance 2, Developed, Lge Standard 8, Reputation 13)
2nd Nation:
Success rt: 40%



OK, so it seems that the Development stage of a country also has an effect - the more developed your nation is, the higher your chances of landing a job. (This probably does not apply to most people as most people do not choose obscure nationalities, do they?)

It seems as though there are other factors as well. For instance, why is the success rate lower for Australia than it is for Wales? Australia has a better league standard and reputation. I can only assume (for now) that the Continent/Country Regions has an impact on this.
Also, the importance of the nationality/language can't be underestimated - look how low the success rates for Brazil and Argentina are http://champman0102.co.uk/forum/images/smilies/eek.gif (especially when compared to Wales/Ireland)
Again, it's apparent that it is not easy to get the top jobs (big 4). Even with English nationality I didn't get the Arsenal job.

Patinoz
27-04-12, 09:30 AM
Changing Country Stats
These tests show the effect of changing the stats of the nations.

I've used a very low-profile country called Timor (which I later found didn't even have a National team!). So, my manager comes from Timor.

Country Details
---------------
Nation: Timor (Abreviation: TLS)
Continent: blank
Region: Asia
Actual Region: Asia

Languages-1st: Portugease
Languages-2nd: Javanese

Non-EU/EEA

Game Imp.: 4
Development: Third World
League St: 1
Reputation: 1


Manager Details
---------------
Name: David Goliath
Home Rep: 4978
Current Rep: 4904
World Rep: 4702

CA/PA: 46/96

=======================================




I changed only one thing per test to see what effect it would have.
The brackets indicate what I changed.




Test 1 (Game Imp. 2) - 6/60 (10%)
Test 2 (Game Imp. 3) - 6/60 (10%)
Test 3 (Game Imp. 4) - 6/60 (10%)
Test 4 (Normal Development)- 6/60 (10%)
Test 5 (Developing) - 16/60 (26.7%)
Test 6 (Developed) - 19/60 (31.2%)

I also ran development tests with other nations:



Cameroon
3rd World: 5/60
Developing: 16/60
Developed: 19/60

Botswana
3rd World: 6/60
Developing: 19/60
Developed: 23/60


Botswana got more job offers than Cameroon even though Cameroon have a much higher game importance, reputation and lge standard! It's because they have English as 1st language whereas Cameroon have English as 2nd language.



Test 7 (Lge Standard 5) - 6/60 (10%)
Test 8 (Lge Standard 10) - 6/60 (10%)
Test 9 (Lge Standard 15) - 6/60 (10%)
Test 10 (Lge Standard 18) - 6/60 (10%)
Test 11 (Lge Standard 20) - 6/60 (10%)
Test 12 (Reputation 5) - 6/60 (10%)
Test 13 (Reputation 10) - 6/60 (10%)
Test 14 (Reputation 15) - 6/60 (10%)
Test 15 (Reputation 18) - 6/60 (10%)
Test 16 (Reputation 20) - 6/60 (10%)



I also ran these two tests with Brazil



Reputation 3: 16/60
Reputation 14: 16/60

Lge Stand 3: 16/60
Lge Standard 19:16/60

Again - no difference


(I used a different save game for the Brazil test so ignore the fact that the percentage is lower than Botswana's)


A few surprises there. I would have thought that Game Importance, Reputation and League Standard would have all made a difference.
Language is obviously important - Botswana had better results than Cameroon.

Patinoz
27-04-12, 09:34 AM
Effect of EU and Non-EU (EEC) Nationalities
For these tests I changed the option of 'EEC member' using the editor and applied for all available jobs in England. The results are below - both with 'EEC member' and without.


Manager Nationality: Wales
EEC Member: 50/60
Non-EEC: 50/60

Manager Nationality: Republic of Ireland
EEC Member: 49/60
Non-EEC: 49/60

Manager Nationality: Argentina
EEC Member: 16/60
Non-EEC: 16/60

Manager Nationality: Brazil
EEC Member: 16/60
Non-EEC: 16/60



Then I applied in Japan and South Korea to see if EEC membership makes a difference outside Europe

Manager Nationality: Germany
EEC Member: 6/12
Non-EEC: 6/12

Manager Nationality: England
EEC Member: 7/12
Non-EEC: 7/12

Manager Nationality: Denmark
EEC Member: 2/12
Non-EEC: 2/12 (lower manager reps than Germany and England)


OK so it seems that EU membership does not have an effect either.

After the last two tests I'm beginning to wonder how the game tells apart the bigger footballing nations from the smaller ones. I had thought that Reputation, Lge Standard and Game Importance (and maybe EU membership) would provide the difference but they don't.
Maybe the World Rankings have an effect? http://champman0102.co.uk/forum/images/smilies/noidea.gif


EDIT: In GK's Save Game Editor each nation has two separate reputation stats - one for the reputation of the nation itself and one for the reputation of the nation's football team. There is also a 'Training' stat for the country. Maybe that's the defining factor . . .


Thoughts?

Patinoz
27-04-12, 09:35 AM
ok I just had a quick look at the training stat of some nations and it does seem plausable that the game uses this to help determine how 'good' a nation is.





Brazil 19
Italy 19
Argentina 19
France 18
Germany 17
Spain 17
England 16
Holland 16
Denmark 14
Sweden 14
Turkey 14
Nigeria 13
Russia 13
USA 13
Belgium 12
Colombia 12
Ireland 12
Scotland 12
Yugoslavia 12
Australia 11
Slovakia 11
Slovenia 11
Wales 10
Iceland 9
N Ireland 9
Trinidad & Tob. 8
Oman 7
StKitts & Nevis 4
Hong Kong 3
Nicaragua 2

Patinoz
27-04-12, 09:37 AM
http://i33.tinypic.com/klroo.png





See, there are also 2 reputation stats. One at the top and one near the one that I have highlighted at the bottom

Patinoz
27-04-12, 09:37 AM
Rival Nations
I did the following tests to see if rival nations affect your chances of a job.
First, I made sure that Holland and Germany had each other as their number one rival nations. I changed my nationality to Holland (Dutch) and applied for all jobs in Germany.

Try ¦ Success Rate
Try 1: 7/29
Try 2: 7/29


Then I made Germany and Holland no longer rivals and applied again

Try ¦ Success Rate
Try 1: 7/29
Try 2: 7/29


I did the same tests with France and Italy.
Firstly as rivals:

Try ¦ Success Rate
Try 1: 3/14
Try 2: 3/14


And then as friends:

Try ¦ Success Rate

Try 1: 3/14
Try 2: 3/14


So, rival nations do not seem to have an effect.

Patinoz
27-04-12, 09:44 AM
Does Manager CA rise?
This test will show what effect (if any) winning/losing has on a manager's CA
I've selected the Welsh and Spanish leagues, taken over Valencia on holiday and then recorded the vital stats at the end of every season.

Here are the results:

http://img713.imageshack.us/img713/5787/red1x.png (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/713/red1x.png/)

http://img845.imageshack.us/img845/6618/red2y.png (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/845/red2y.png/)

http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/2930/red3.png (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/341/red3.png/)

http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/1082/red4n.png (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/401/red4n.png/)

http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/137/red5q.png (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/687/red5q.png/)

Patinoz
27-04-12, 09:45 AM
More tests to see rise/fall of Manager CA


So I ran a few more tests to see if my CA would ever rise or fall.

http://img815.imageshack.us/img815/9388/red6.png (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/815/red6.png/)

Japan




Season CA PA

03 16 183
04 16 183
05 16 183
06 16 183

Unfortunately, the results are the same - the CA never rises regardless of what you achieve. This is definitely a glitch in the game and ultimately means that if you are randomly given a very low CA at the beginning of the game there is absolutely no way that you will get a decent job anywhere (unless you use an editor) - a bit sad really.

Next I'll be looking at the AI managers. Maybe it is only the human managers whose CA is static, or maybe not.

Patinoz
27-04-12, 09:47 AM
Does the CA of AI Managers rise and fall?
I think it's almost certain that human managers are stuck on the CA that they start the game with. But is it the same for AI managers?

I followed the careers of 24 staff members and checked their stats in 2001, 2003 and 2010.


http://i33.tinypic.com/2jbwrc3.jpg


So, it seems as though the better managers' CA never changes whereas the CAs of the low-profile managers does.

But then I looked through the saves and noted exactly what jobs these non-players did. These are the findings:


http://i36.tinypic.com/15xptgl.png


For those who haven't spotted it yet - not a single manager's CA rose. It was only the other staff members (assistant managers, coaches, scouts etc.) who had an increase or decrease in their CAs.

Why does the game have the option of a PA for managers when it is useless? The DB contains many managers with low CAs and high PAs (is it like this in the ODB or is this only in the updates?)
Also, a question for the update team - is there any reason to give a manager a different CA and PA when it seems clear that it doesn't rise anyway?
Also, how do we implement into the game a young manager who will go on to great things? A promising young player can be given a low CA & high PA and he will eventually come good but how do we implement that into the game for managers?

Patinoz
27-04-12, 09:48 AM
Rise of the Manager CA
I started a new game without changing anything.
Then I used Explorer to put Moyes at Man U as Assistant Manager:


http://i33.tinypic.com/jrwdmx.png



These were his stats:

http://i33.tinypic.com/zogm13.png


By April 2002 this is what has happened: Spoiler:

http://i35.tinypic.com/30cvqd5.png
http://i33.tinypic.com/2ljme6c.png





Predictably, his in-game stats have fallen due to the low CA but his CA has started to rise already

Patinoz
27-04-12, 09:48 AM
Rise of the Manager CA
He was released by Man U for some reason which saw his CA go down to 32. So I put him back at Man U.

It seems as though the manager's CA goes down if they're unemployed


EDIT: Not Manager, but Assistant Manager. Manager CA never seems to change

Patinoz
27-04-12, 09:49 AM
Manager Attributes Test
I did this test to see if the mental attributes and business attribute of managers help in getting a job.

First I ran a test with '1' for every one of these attributes (Adaptibility, Ambition, Determination, Loyalty, Pressure, Professionalism, Sportsmanship, Temperament and Business) then with '10' and finally with '20'.
My manager was English, had a CA/PA of 165/165, an average World Reputation, and was applying for the top jobs in France, Spain, Germany and Italy


Test 1 - all attributes on 1

Test 1: 6/19
Test 2: 5/19
Test 3: 6/19
Success Rate: 29.8%



Test 2 - all attributes on 10

Test 1: 6/19
Test 2: 6/19
Test 3: 6/19
Success Rate: 31.6%



Test 3 - all attributes on 20

Test 1: 7/19
Test 2: 6/19
Test 3: 6/19
Success Rate: 33.3%


Although it does make a difference, it is nothing to get excited about as the difference is very, very small. As a result, I didn't check to see which attributes were making the difference (I would take a guess at Loyalty as this is the only one that increases/decreases over time)

Patinoz
27-04-12, 09:50 AM
Ultimatums - does a better manager survive for longer?


Following стахановец's suggestion, I wanted to see what effect my manager ability and reputation would have on the board's attitudes towards me.

I used the save game where I had been successful with Liverpool for more than a decade.

I requested that the board make 'Extra Funds for Wages' available. Naturally they declined so I gave them my ultimatum. I kept asking for this increase and kept giving them an ultimatum until I was sacked. Then I changed the CA/PA and reputations and ran the test again.



Reputations:




ca/pa 150 Reputations 1000 2 Ultimatums Given
ca/pa 150 Reputations 5000 2 Ultimatums Given
ca/pa 150 Reputations 10000 2 Ultimatums Given


CA/PA:




ca/pa 100 Reputations 10000 2 Ultimatums Given
ca/pa 150 Reputations 10000 2 Ultimatums Given
ca/pa 200 Reputations 10000 2 Ultimatums Given


So it seems that the manager reputation or ability do not affect the board's attitudes towards him. It is probably based upon the Chairman's stats and the financial position of the club.

Patinoz
27-04-12, 09:51 AM
Manager Battles - Louis van Gaal vs David Goliath (Human Manager)
As BlueDemon mentioned earlier in this thread, the chances of getting a job abroad are based greatly on the quality of the opposition, ie if you are more suited to the job than other managers, you will always get the job (I used the words 'more suited' because the game looks at this more than if you are actually good or not).

To demonstrate this, I set up a test using one of my many, many save games. Hopefully this series of tests will give us all some understanding regarding how the match engine works when it comes to landing a top job abroad.

My manager is David Goliath (how's that for a contradiction in terms http://champman0102.co.uk/forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif) and he has been moderately successful at Barcelona for a good few years. I resign and apply for jobs in England, amongst which is the Manchester United job.
At the present time (without editing my manager stats) I am not suited to land the Manchester United job. The person who gets it is always Louis van Gaal of AZ Alkmar. I have checked this many, many times and I always get the same result - 'Manchester United have appointed Louis van Gaal as their new manager. AZ are now looking for a new manager.'

I aim to edit my attributes so that I get the Manchester United job ahead of Louis van Gaal.

These are the head-to-head vital statistics before making any changes:

Louis van Gaal, Dutch Home Reputation 8905, Current 8905, World 8720, CA165 PA187, World Ranking 7th
David Goliath, English Home Reputation 8384, Current 10000 World 7237, CA56 PA96, World Ranking 24th

So, Louis van Gaal is obviously in a much better position to begin with - he has a higher World reputation and higher Ca/PA. The fact that I am English is an advantage but this is countered by the fact that the Dutch speak English as a second language.
What do I need to do to get the job?

Test 1 - raise only the CA/PA from 56/96 to 125/125
Result: Spoiler:
http://i37.tinypic.com/znn8zn.png


I suppose that was expected - Louis van Gaal still has better overall stats even though his nationality is Dutch


Test 2 - raise only the CA/PA from 56/96 to 156/156 (still slightly lower than van Gaal's)
Result: 'Manchester United have appointed Louis van Gaal as their new manager' http://champman0102.co.uk/forum/images/smilies/frown.gif

OK, so we need to go higher still.


Test 3 - raise only the CA/PA from 56/96 to 162/193 (slightly higher than van Gaal's)
Result: 'Manchester United have appointed Louis van Gaal as their new manager' http://champman0102.co.uk/forum/images/smilies/frown.gif

So even with a slightly higher CA/PA I am unsuccessful. Again, this is expected based on the research.


Test 4 - raise only the CA/PA from 56/96 to 200/200 (maximum CA/PA)
Result: 'Manchester United have appointed Louis van Gaal as their new manager' http://champman0102.co.uk/forum/images/smilies/frown.gif

Again, this is expected - van Gaal is better in other departments - most importantly world reputation. I have to increase my reputation to succeed.


Test 5 - raise the CA/PA to 172/193 and the World Reputation to 8800 (higher CA/PA and higher World Reputation - surley I should get that job now.)
Result: Spoiler:
http://i33.tinypic.com/2rcbhv4.jpg




Finally, but it was expected. The World Reputation HAS to be high if you want a decent job. That can't be emphasised enough.
To show this, I ran a few more tests where I kept the World reputation higher than van Gaal's but lowered the CA/PA.

How low could I go?


Test 6 - CA/PA 159/181 World Reputation 8800 (slightly lower CA/PA but slightly higher World reputation)
Result: 'Manchester United offer you the position of manager' http://champman0102.co.uk/forum/images/smilies/thumb.gif

OK, lowering the CA/PA further


Test 7 - CA/PA 156/178 World Reputation 8800
Result: 'Manchester United offer you the position of manager' http://champman0102.co.uk/forum/images/smilies/thumb.gif


Test 8 - CA/PA 155/177 World Reputation 8800
Result: 'Manchester United offer you the position of manager' http://champman0102.co.uk/forum/images/smilies/thumb.gif


Test 9 - CA/PA 154/176 World Reputation 8800
Result: 'Manchester United offer you the position of manager' http://champman0102.co.uk/forum/images/smilies/thumb.gif


Test 10 - CA/PA 153/175 World Reputation 8800
Result: 'Manchester United have appointed Louis van Gaal as their new manager' http://champman0102.co.uk/forum/images/smilies/frown.gif

Right then, when the CA got to 153, van Gaal got the job ahead of me.
What if I increase the PA?


Test 11 - CA/PA 153/193 World Reputation 8800
Result: 'Manchester United offer you the position of manager' http://champman0102.co.uk/forum/images/smilies/thumb.gif

OK, so the PA does have some effect after all. The CA is 153. How much can I lower the PA?


Test 12 - CA/PA 153/187 World Reputation 8800
Result: 'Manchester United offer you the position of manager' http://champman0102.co.uk/forum/images/smilies/thumb.gif


Test 13 - CA/PA 153/181 World Reputation 8800
Result: 'Manchester United offer you the position of manager' http://champman0102.co.uk/forum/images/smilies/thumb.gif


Test 14 - CA/PA 153/179 World Reputation 8800
Result: 'Manchester United offer you the position of manager' http://champman0102.co.uk/forum/images/smilies/thumb.gif


Test 15 - CA/PA 153/178 World Reputation 8800
Result: 'Manchester United have appointed Louis van Gaal as their new manager' http://champman0102.co.uk/forum/images/smilies/frown.gif


Test 16 - CA/PA 153/177 World Reputation 8800
Result: 'Manchester United have appointed Louis van Gaal as their new manager' http://champman0102.co.uk/forum/images/smilies/frown.gif

I think that 153/179 is the cut-off point. I can get the job ahead of van Gaal as long as my World reputation is higher even though my CA is 12 lower and my PA is 8 lower than his.

Then I wanted to test the same thing but with maximum world reputation - would I be able to secure the top job with an even lower CA/PA?


Test 17 - CA/PA 153/175 World Reputation 10000
Result: 'Manchester United offer you the position of manager' http://champman0102.co.uk/forum/images/smilies/thumb.gif


Test 18 - CA/PA 147/169 World Reputation 10000
Result: 'Manchester United offer you the position of manager' http://champman0102.co.uk/forum/images/smilies/thumb.gif


Test 19 - CA/PA 141/163 World Reputation 10000
Result: 'Manchester United offer you the position of manager' http://champman0102.co.uk/forum/images/smilies/thumb.gif


Test 20 - CA/PA 135/157 World Reputation 10000
Result: 'Manchester United offer you the position of manager' http://champman0102.co.uk/forum/images/smilies/thumb.gif


Test 21 - CA/PA 129/151 World Reputation 10000
Result: 'Manchester United offer you the position of manager' http://champman0102.co.uk/forum/images/smilies/thumb.gif


Test 22 - CA/PA 120/140 World Reputation 10000
Result: 'Manchester United offer you the position of manager' http://champman0102.co.uk/forum/images/smilies/thumb.gif

Lower still!


Test 23 - CA/PA 110/130 World Reputation 10000
Result: 'Manchester United offer you the position of manager' http://champman0102.co.uk/forum/images/smilies/thumb.gif


Test 24 - CA/PA 100/120 World Reputation 10000
Result: 'Manchester United offer you the position of manager' http://champman0102.co.uk/forum/images/smilies/thumb.gif


Test 25 - CA/PA 90/110 World Reputation 10000
Result: 'Manchester United have appointed Louis van Gaal as their new manager' http://champman0102.co.uk/forum/images/smilies/frown.gif

Right, so it seems as though 100 is the cut-off point here. I'll raise the CA slightly.


Test 26 - CA/PA 100/110 World Reputation 10000
Result: 'Manchester United offer you the position of manager' http://champman0102.co.uk/forum/images/smilies/thumb.gif

And now I'll lower the PA again . . .


Test 27 - CA/PA 100/100 World Reputation 10000
Result: 'Manchester United offer you the position of manager' http://champman0102.co.uk/forum/images/smilies/thumb.gif


So the cut-off point with maximum world reputation is a CA 65+ lower than van Gaal's and a PA 87+ lower! Obviously this will change depending on the opposition manager and their world reputation compared to yours.

As usual I did the important tests more than once just to make sure but it is worth noting that the game looks for the slightest detail when it comes to giving a job - if your stats are better than the opposition managers, you will get the job.

I might try a few more of there with different human managers, nations, languages etc. as Rossinho suggested in an earlier post

Patinoz
27-04-12, 09:52 AM
Are you more likely to get a job if you resign first (from your current club)?
The short and simple answer: No


I've only done a few tests but I have seen no advantage either way. I used the save game where the manager is Joe Bloggs and he has been successful with Liverpool. First I applied for the available jobs in France whilst I was still manager of Liverpool. Then I tested it again but this time I resigned first before applying for the jobs.

Then I repeated these two tests with clubs in Germany, Italy and Spain. The results are below showing the teams that offered me the jobs:


Test 1 - France (26 clubs)

After resigning from Liverpool:
Bastia
Laval
2/26 - 7.7%

Whilst manager of Liverpool:
Bastia
Laval
Chateauroux
3/26 - 11.5%



Test 2 - Germany (20 clubs)

After resigning from Liverpool:
Giessen
1/20 - 5%

Whilst manager of Liverpool:
Giessen
1/20 - 5%



Test 3 - Italy (32 clubs)

After resigning from Liverpool:
Andria
Atletico Catania
Benevento
Brescia
Carrarese
Catanzaro
Como
Fermana
Fiorenzuola
Gela
Genoa
Giulianova
Gualdo
Lecce
Lazio
Vibonese
16/32 - 50%

Whilst manager of Liverpool:
Andria
Atletico Catania
Benevento
Brescia
Carrarese
Catanzaro
Como
Fermana
Fiorenzuola
Gela
Genoa
Giulianova
Gualdo
Lecce
Lazio
Vibonese
16/32 - 50%



Test 4 - Spain (28 clubs)

After resigning from Liverpool:
Alcoyano
Almeria
At. Baleares
Atletico Bilbao
Badajoz
Burriana
Cacereno
Castillo
Chantrea
Coruxo
Cultural
Diter Zafra
Ejido
Endesa Andorra
Endesa As Pontes
Logrones C.F.
16/28 - 57.1%


Whilst manager of Liverpool:
Alcoyano
Almeria
At. Baleares
Atletico Bilbao
Badajoz
Burriana
Cacereno
Castillo
Chantrea
Coruxo
Cultural
Diter Zafra
Ejido
Endesa Andorra
Endesa As Pontes
Logrones C.F.
16/28 - 57.1%




If anything, I would say that it is better to resign first. but only because this way, your board will not get angry and sack you! That's the reason why I didn't apply for too many jobs even in this set of tests - after applying for about 10/15 jobs my own name appeared on the list of Jobs as 'Very Insecure' http://champman0102.co.uk/forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

Patinoz
27-04-12, 09:53 AM
Replaying Challenge 4 - Nations Only

I played Challenge 4 on holiday mode and implemented some of the things I've learnt whilst doing this research. For those who had to suffer rejection after rejection, here's how things could have been . . . http://champman0102.co.uk/forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

Manager Stats:

Name: CM 01-02 Red9
Nationality:German/Spanish (using GK Save Game Editor)
My reasoning for choosing these two nationalities:
There is no point in choosing Italian because you already start with a job in Italy. Germany have English as a 2nd language and Spain have English as a 3rd language so that should help with jobs in England. The only nation not accounted for was France. I'm hoping that by this time my World Rep would be high enough to land a decent job and also, it's France!

CA/PA: 100/100 (using GK Save Game Editor)
World Reputation at game start: 120th
Stats in GK Save Game Editor: Spoiler:
http://i33.tinypic.com/20h7l9e.png




---------------------------------


Italy - Juventus - Serie A
July 2001 - September 2004

I won the league only once in the first year. I didn't reach the final of any domestic or European cup competition during that time

World Rep 40th

At this point the following (decent) jobs were available:

England - Man U, Newcastle, Tottenham, West Ham and Chelsea (all in Prem apart from West Ham)

France - nothing

Germany - Hoffenheim, M'gladbach and Mainz (all in D2)

Spain - Betis, Las Palmas and Numancia (all D1)


I resigned from Juventus and applied for all of these and was offered the M'gladbach job because of my nationality (I was also offered the Las Palmas job in D1 in Spain but declined)

I think my World Reputation was too low to have been offered any of the top jobs in the Premiership. That's an important point - it is advantageous to stay in Italy for a good few years so that your reputation can rise. If you only stay for the minimum of two years your reputation will be too low to land a decent job even if you win everything with Juventus.


----------------------------------------


Germany - M'gladbach - Division 2
September 2004 - June 2007

I got promoted to D1 in the first season and then finished 5th and then 8th. I also reached the UEFA Cup quarter-finals and came runner-up in the German Cup

World Rep 40th
Had I actually won something (as the challenge rules state http://champman0102.co.uk/forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif ) my reputation would have been much, much higher


At this point the following (decent) jobs were available:

England - C Palace, Fulham, Millwall (all D1), Norwich and Aston Villa (both in Prem)

France - Nimes, Rouen (both D1), Le Mans and Monaco (both D2)

Spain - Alaves (D2), Rayo, R Madrid and Murcia (all three in D1)


I resigned from M'gladbach and applied for all of these and was offered the R Madrid job! This was clearly due to me having Spain as my second nationality because my World Reputation wasn't great and my CA/PA was only 100/100


---------------------------------------


Spain - Real Madrid - Division 1
June 2007 - June 2009

I won the league comfortably in the first season and also reached the semi-finals of the Champions League. In the second season I did the treble and then resigned.

World Rep 22nd


At this point the following (decent) jobs were available:

England - Arsenal, Chelsea, Newcastle, Norwich (all Prem), Charlton, Huddersfield, Ipswich, Leicester, Nottm Forest, Derby, Blackpool, Bolton, Barnsley, Millwall, Sheff Utd (all D1), Fulham, Carlisle and Birmingham (D2)

France - Le Havre, Lyon, Monaco, Valenciennes (D1), Amiens, Bayonne, Bordeaux, Strasbourg Toulouse, Metz, Guingamp (D2) and Lens (NAT)


I resigned from Real Madrid and applied for all of these and was offered the Carlisle job in D2 in December. I'm not quite sure why it took so long to land a job and why I was refused from all of the other teams. I am assuming that the combination of a CA/PA of 100/100, the not-so-brilliant World Rep and the fact that English was only my second language was the cause of this. I'm certain that I would have got the better jobs if something was changed. I tested this by increasing my World Rep and changing my second nationality from Spain to England - I was offered the Arsenal, Chelsea and Newcastle jobs within a week! (I was also offered the Spurs job even though I didn't apply for it!)


----------------------------------------


England - Carlisle - Division 2
December 2009 - August 2018

A very long job - I stayed in D2 for a few years before being relegated to D3. But back-to-back promotions took me to D1 and two years later I had finally reached the Premiership. Carlisle had a very poor team as I couldn't get any success with them even with the best formations. After spending one season in the Premiership (finishing 2nd) I resigned to look for my final job in France.

World Rep 15th


At this point the following (decent) jobs were available:

France - Auxerre, Dijon, Gueugnon, Guingamp, Lorient, Lyon, Marseille, Metz, Montpellier, Nice, Roye, Valenciennes (all D1), Sochaux, Saint-Etienne and Toulouse (all D2)

I applied for all of these and was offered the Toulouse job. I was refused all of the D1 jobs which was expected as I was not French. Still, Toulouse was perfect for this challenge.


----------------------------------------


France - Toulouse - Division 2
August 2018 - June 2020

First season I won promotion to the top division easily and then in the second season I won the top league and completed the challenge http://champman0102.co.uk/forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

World Reputation at the end - 7th


---------------------------------------


Manager Jobs: Spoiler:
http://i33.tinypic.com/v6i0y9.png





---------------------------------------


I know all of this may seem disheartening for those who had to struggle through the lower leagues every time but at least you know this for the future http://champman0102.co.uk/forum/images/smilies/thumb.gif

@ the Official Challenges Team: In the interest of making things fair in the future, I would advise setting some guidelines for this sort of challenge. For example, everyone could be told what CA/PA to use and what nationalities they can and can't use. In this way everyone will be playing with the same opportunities to get another good job abroad. Otherwise, those who were lucky enough to get a high randomly generated CA will get the better teams whilst those who have a low CA will take longer with lower-quality teams. Just a thought http://champman0102.co.uk/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif

Patinoz
27-04-12, 09:53 AM
On a separate note:

Has anyone seen these before:

Spoiler:
http://i35.tinypic.com/15f0z05.png



Spoiler:
http://i33.tinypic.com/xcouiw.jpg

Patinoz
27-04-12, 09:54 AM
Final Thoughts . . .

Having completed the research I thought I'd share my conclusions about finding a job abroad with everyone.

I've covered the following things in this research:

Current and Potential Abilities
Development of a nation
Home, Current and World Reputations
Language
Manager Attributes
Nationality
Nation Stats


I'll cover each point of the research in the order of importance according to me.

Two points first:
- Unfortunately, unless you are very, very lucky you will have to use a 'Save Game Editor' to land a top job abroad if you are not of the same nationality. By lucky I mean that you manage to start with a very high CA (190+)
- The basic rule in landing a top job is that your manager has to better suited to the job than the other managers that have applied for the same job. 'Better suited' does not mean successful with a big club for a few years. Rather, it means that your manager fulfils the requirements that are important in the game. Your manager is best suited if he ticks most of the boxes that I will mention now.


1. Nationality

This is without doubt the most important factor in getting that top job abroad. Even if your manager doesn't have a great CA/PA (and instead has one between 90 and 120), he will still stand a chance of getting a top job in the country of his nationality as long as his reputation is decent. All managers that have a different nationality will be overlooked unless they are exceptional (eg maximum World Reputation and a CA of 195+ such as Mourinho)

My tests show that a second nationality is just as good as a first nationality. So, if you choose to be German/Spanish you will gain the benefits of both nationalities - ie finding a job in Germany and Spain should be very easy.



2. Reputations (Home, Current and World)

Very simple to understand - if foreign teams and chairmen don't know about you how can they hire you? It's essential to have a high World Reputation to land the best jobs. If you are of the same nationality and have a very high World Reputation you will get the best jobs (Real Madrid, Barcelona, Man U etc.) provided your CA/PA isn't too low (not below 90).

Home and Current Reputations don't seem to have any effect in getting a job abroad



3. Current and Potential Abilities (CA/PA)

This is the third most important factor in my opinion, ie even if you have a poor CA/PA (50-90) but very good reputations and the right nationality you will still get the good jobs. To get the best jobs, however, the CA/PA also needs to be decent. A CA/PA of 125 should be enough for this if your reputation and nationality are correct.

Potential Ability does have an effect but not a major one



4. Language

If your manager does not have the same nationality, speaking the same language is the next best thing. It is not as efficient as sharing the same nationality but it does help. So, for example, If you chose San Marino nationality you would still be fairly successful in landing a job in Italy (because San Marinese also apeak Italian) but it would not be as successful as having an Italian nationality.

A 2nd language seems to be slightly less effective and a 3rd language even more so.



5. Nation Development

Any nation can either be 'Third World', 'Developing' or 'Developed'. The chances of landing a job increase as the development of a nation increases. Therefore, Brazil and Argentina do not do well in this regard as they are only 'Developing' nations whereas most of Europe is 'Developed'



=======================


Other Comments

The mental attributes and business attribute do not have any effect in whether you are successful with a job abroad.

The country stats (Reputation, League Standard and Game Importance) don't seem to make a country better or worse. I'm not sure what does.


=======================


Further Research

Yes, there's room for more if anyone wants to do it!

Country Regions: How does a countries geographical position help? eg Is it actually advantageous to have a European nationality when applying for jobs in Europe?
Similarly, how advatageous is it to have a British nationality when applying for a job in England or Scotland?

Languages: Although I did try to test this I don't think it's done properly. It seems as though changing the language during the game doesn't actually have an effect (the players/managers do not have this new language as one of their fluent/basic languages). I think you have to edit this before starting a new game.

And finally,
Country Stats: How does the game recognise that a nation is good/bad? As I've said above, the Reputation, Game Importance and League Standard stats don't have an effect. So what does?

Patinoz
27-04-12, 09:57 AM
Awful manager gets 100+ manager jobs!
Just a few screenshots to show how the AI does not look at previous achievements when giving a job.

This manager has very high CA/PA but has an awful record as you will see:

Manager jobs in 100 seasons:
Spoiler:
http://i51.tinypic.com/15mcsnd.png





A little bit of history:
Spoiler:
http://i56.tinypic.com/j96cde.png
http://i52.tinypic.com/29xwwm1.png





Manager Stats:
Spoiler:
http://i51.tinypic.com/296dede.jpg


That's an average scoreline of 1-6 for every match!!!








Some awful records:
Spoiler:
http://i54.tinypic.com/vp9f00.jpg
http://i53.tinypic.com/10ood1c.png
http://i53.tinypic.com/vzxzbn.png
http://i52.tinypic.com/21kguvm.png
http://i52.tinypic.com/k9w6t2.jpg






As long as you have a high CA/PA and the correct nationality it seems as though you can be the worst manager on the planet and still get good jobs!

Patinoz
27-04-12, 10:01 AM
Unbelievable work mate, great stuff!


Oh my word Red. You've outdone yourself. Amazing research.


Hail to Red9, amazing research and very informative read.


Brilliant piece of work.http://champman0102.co.uk/forum/images/smilies/hail.gifhttp://champman0102.co.uk/forum/images/smilies/hail.gifhttp://champman0102.co.uk/forum/images/smilies/hail.gifhttp://champman0102.co.uk/forum/images/smilies/hail.gifhttp://champman0102.co.uk/forum/images/smilies/hail.gif


Brilliant work Red and excellent summary.

:ok:

ruaryno
30-05-12, 10:01 PM
I bought players from that country, manage the national team if pos too.

ChrisWex
03-06-12, 11:17 AM
Thank you Red9 for all your hard work

Elliott
03-06-12, 02:18 PM
I'm currently playing a game across Europe, starting in Belgium, planning to manage successfully in every country. My manager has English nationality and secondary Jamaican nationality (as I do, through my grandfather). I think in reality my manager would like an enticing prospect for a mid-table top division side after 18 months having swept through D3 with ease and having been near the top of D2 throughout subsequent season, but obviously, the game isn't quite clever enough for that :)

My manager's CA and PA are both 72 or something very similar when I had a look. From this research I think I may raise these to 100 to help me along. I am considering changing second nationality to whatever country I am in once I have been there for three years, but actually not sure that would really serve much purpose - one of my nationalities is a top European one, so I should get by okay from that I should think?

shikaka
04-06-12, 05:05 PM
one of my nationalities is a top European one, so I should get by okay from that I should think?


While english/jamaican, playing in belgium, you will most likely get good english and belgian jobs. Germany or Italy? Not likely, only below Serie B!

Elliott
05-06-12, 09:11 AM
To be fair, thinking about it, I want to win all competitions, not just the top league in each country. So I want to start at the bottom anyway, so it doesn't matter, right? I may still up my CA/PA because winning the league with the team I have might be difficult and it would be nice to be offered a better job once I've made it to the top league, then again, I don't want all the unwanted attention from England which will inevitably happen.

sheppsea
10-06-12, 09:22 AM
Hi,

Has anyone ever had problems getting a job overseas? I have been managing in England for a number of years, have won numerous Premier League and Champions League titles with two club as well as the World Cup and European Championship with England and am second in the world manager rankings. I recently resigned from Newcastle and have been applying for jobs overseas but am never offered a position, either at big clubs or small clubs, whereas I am offered every job in England that comes up

Is there anything that you can do to get a job overseas?

Fods
10-06-12, 09:26 AM
Moved your post to here mate, have a read, this should answer your question :ok:

rjvthemighty
16-07-12, 12:16 PM
ok just a quick random one but I won the Prem 10 times and Champions League a few times with Corby Town then I applied for about 30 jobs at bottom division clubs around the world in countries like Brazil, Sweden, Argentina, Denmark, Poland and Turkey, and was accepted by all of them. My reputation was superb in England and Very Good worldwide I think, I'll check my CA/PA to see if it would have affected it

nedelja10
12-08-12, 09:33 AM
Playing d game since 2002, but never had this much trouble in finding a new job. I started game, org db, with all top 5 leagues, in france.
I managed Marseille for four season, wining first division in last three, two cups,two league cups,in third season uefa cup and in fourth CL.
Resigned from Marseille in search for a new job, im best (or most popular) manager in d world and i cant find a job for three years now.
I am manager of Brazil, since 2006, but not even second division clubs from any nation didnt offer me d job, of course i applied for all of them.
Only job offers i got are from third, and lower division clubs.
Any help?

swedishcmgod
12-08-12, 09:20 PM
poor ca, use savegame editor and raise your ca. At the beginning of a game you're handed a random CA which affect the jobs u can take after your first club, it's pretty god damn stupid but hey - it's the way it works.

kmeinert
30-08-12, 09:01 AM
Is my version bugged or is it infinitely hard to change jobs. I've won the national championship in Denmark three years in a row, I'm no.1 with a superb reputation nationally and internationally I'm 19th with a good reputation. For about 18 months I have applied for jobs in the English lower leagues (primarily D2 and D1). I have applied for at least 10 jobs and had no luck so far.

I'm running the latest update with the 2.19 Tampani patch.

Please help me with some insights.

Kindest regards

JLa
30-08-12, 10:02 AM
the game is flawed.


poor ca (Current Ability), use a savegame editor and raise your ca. At the beginning of a game you're handed a random CA which affect the jobs u can take after your first club, it's pretty god damn stupid but hey - it's the way it works.

JLa
14-01-13, 10:13 AM
I checked my CA/PA in my current save - both were 66. However, I've still managed to change jobs quite often, probably because my reputation is almost maxed out due to massive success? My career looks like this:

Blackburn. Won the championship, the premier league, the champions league etc etc ..
Monaco. Won the french first division, looking good in the champions league, but went to Tottenham.
Tottenham. Won the premier league, the champions league etc etc ... signed Messi for £20 million, he's a beast!
Kingstonian. Won conference north.
Holland. For the first time in my career, I won nothing and was sacked! :lol:
Newcastle. Currently 2nd in the premier league.

English nationality. For what it's worth, I've found it somewhat easier to change jobs as unemployed. When managing Kingstonian, I sent out applications to every club available, some in the premier league and some in the leagues below. No interest what so ever. However, after resigning I applied to ...can't remember, Chelsea? A major club. But anyway, I was offered the job shortly after. Could it be that being in a minor club somewhat lowers your reputation? I went for Holland, though.

Black&AmberArmy
30-01-13, 06:16 PM
Guys, whats your experience?

I am 10 seasons in on latest ODB update, started in Germany with Wolfsburg and won 1 title and 1 champions league in 4 season. Left to take over at Hull City, go them into Premier League and have won the title 3 times on the trot, but havent cracked Europe yet.

But felt like a new challenge and have applied for jobs at Schalke, Lazio, Inter, Dortmund & Werder Bremen as they have come up and nothing!

I'm rated best in world on stats, so what is the crack?

I want to keep this game going without creating a new manager but cant seem to swap jobs?

Anyone else experience this and any advice.

Ta

Dermotron
30-01-13, 06:21 PM
:ok: http://www.champman0102.co.uk/showthread.php?827-Research-Finding-a-new-job-abroad-by-Red9

Black&AmberArmy
30-01-13, 07:05 PM
Thanks dude :amen:

Black&AmberArmy
30-01-13, 07:17 PM
Although looking at it Im buggered without editing the game.

Great bit of research though.

Also fab site, I've been playing since this game since 1993 on Amiga - and the game without doubt peaked at 01/02, nothing else since has satisfied the same!:

Im 37 now, full time employed and married with 3 kids but still love a good session whilst sat watching the match!

Keep up the good work

Dermotron
30-01-13, 07:47 PM
Yeah, the manager thing is a bit of nuisance.

Apparently the issue doesn't exist with the .65 patch but the Data Updates wont work on that patch :(

Bern
30-01-13, 08:26 PM
I'm too lazy to go through all the posts, but I was wondering which program do I need to change my CA/PA and what numbers should I set it at.

In my current save, I'm trying to break the "Number of Manager Jobs" from the All-Time Records thread. I'm up to 57 jobs now, but I'm tired of managing lower level teams.

Dermotron
30-01-13, 08:30 PM
If edit your CA/PA with an editor your achievement is just null and void though :D


CM Explorer will do the job but with any save game editor you risk ruining ur save

Bern
30-01-13, 08:35 PM
If edit your CA/PA with an editor your achievement is just null and void though :D


CM Explorer will do the job but with any save game editor you risk ruining ur save

Good point! I won't do it until my next save than just to keep in line with the rules. I guess I will have to just live with dominating Serie C1 and C2.

I think I tried to use CM Explorer, but I couldn't find myself in the list of managers.

Fods
03-02-13, 11:48 AM
Use Gk Editor

JohnLocke
04-02-13, 09:25 PM
<advert>'Deed Poll' in Flex 2 will also do this - plus it lets you edit your nationalities</advert>

aussiefox84
10-02-13, 07:39 AM
i always find it hard to get jobs in other countries. even after being successful. here is my scenario.

Managed probably the worst welsh premier team Cambrian & Clydach for 5 seasons

* out of the 5 seasons i won the last 3 league titles scoring 100 goals each season.
* in my 3rd season i beat maccabi haifa in uefa cup then lost to russian side Anzhi Makhachkala on away goals.
* 5 years i finished 4th, 2nd, 1st, 1st, 1st in league.
* won 3 domestic cup comps
* got the club about 1.5 million pounds in profit

to me that is pretty good? i was looking for jobs in england after season 4 and for 2 season could not get accepted for any england conference or 3rd div team. why?

if it was real life surely a manager with that record would get a crack in england somewhere?

Cam F
10-02-13, 07:58 AM
It's a known problem with the 3.68 patch which puts some people off playing the game as what's the point if u can't get a job but anyway there is a MASSIVE thread dedicated to it.

You might need to use a save game editor to change your pa to get that elusive job.

MVP
08-09-13, 11:19 AM
I think it's quite obvious that even the AI managers have a difficult time moving abroad. In these tests only one manager was successful in getting a job in a foreign country. That was Jose Mourinho to Villareal and he has almost maximum attributes for reputations and CA/PA - there's a lesson in there for us I think.


So in the updates have managers CA/PA been increased so it's more likely for them to move abroad?

the Devil's Advocate
04-10-13, 11:41 PM
Great read. I'm playing with the .65 update (ODB) and find this part of the game HUGELY frustrating! I've managed Italian side Avellino from the start of the game. Won promotion from the Serie C1/B in the first season. Won promotion from the Serie B two seasons later. Relegated during my first season in the Serie A (but only just) and bounced straight back up as champions of the Serie B. Then finished 10th in the Serie A. Nothing spectacular, but I'm the fifth best manager in Italy now with a 'superb' reputation. Every time a nice Italian job comes along (Napoli, Lazio etc.) someone with a lower reputation gets it. It drives me crazy. It might be because of my nationality (Dutch), but I don't get decent jobs in the Netherlands either :(

Is the problem (a little bit) less annoying in the .68 version or not? I'm dying to know. Oh yeah, I even get rejected by Second Division clubs in England :(

Cam F
04-10-13, 11:59 PM
Great read. I'm playing with the .65 update (ODB) and find this part of the game HUGELY frustrating! I've managed Italian side Avellino from the start of the game. Won promotion from the Serie C1/B in the first season. Won promotion from the Serie B two seasons later. Relegated during my first season in the Serie A (but only just) and bounced straight back up as champions of the Serie B. Then finished 10th in the Serie A. Nothing spectacular, but I'm the fifth best manager in Italy now with a 'superb' reputation. Every time a nice Italian job comes along (Napoli, Lazio etc.) someone with a lower reputation gets it. It drives me crazy. It might be because of my nationality (Dutch), but I don't get decent jobs in the Netherlands either :(

Is the problem (a little bit) less annoying in the .68 version or not? I'm dying to know. Oh yeah, I even get rejected by Second Division clubs in England :(

Just as bad in 3.68 :ok: 3.60 I believe it was still possible to get jobs.

ilovesanmarino
05-10-13, 12:03 AM
The game guide says this is deliberate.

However, are they

A. telling the truth to make the game more of a challenge
B. pretending it was intentional instead of admit a bug
C. it is intentional that it is harder to get a job abroad, but in practice it is not how they thought of it in theory

Marlon36
06-12-14, 12:18 PM
A really helpful thread! My thanks to the author. You've answered my questions on why i could never get a decent job even though i was successful.

BeezerCeltic1967
06-12-14, 02:03 PM
The game guide says this is deliberate.

However, are they

A. telling the truth to make the game more of a challenge
B. pretending it was intentional instead of admit a bug
C. it is intentional that it is harder to get a job abroad, but in practice it is not how they thought of it in theory


I actually think that A is the answer here, have had lots of chats with one of the original makers of this game and i believe that was their aim, lets be honest irl it aint that easy to move abroad willy nilly is it really?

and in champ, you do get AI managers from other countries moving about, it's just a wee bit harder for the actual player of the game.

Marlon36
06-12-14, 04:18 PM
The problem i had wasn't so much the job abroad issue, it was getting a job at another English club. I took Barnet from the Con to the Premier League, my rep was 'Superb' and Palace and Southampton were both relegated from the Premier and i applied for one of those jobs and didn't get them. The Southampton job was given to a lower league manager with a 'Fair' rating.

BeezerCeltic1967
06-12-14, 04:31 PM
You must have done something wrong in the interview?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=OwDmg74rhCw

:lol:

Marlon36
06-12-14, 05:00 PM
:heh:

nexima
21-12-14, 11:06 AM
guys... i know that this has been discussed and even tested for seasons long in another post... but....
being successful, winning cups, continuous improvement, playing final in Champions League with Millwall... and then no job offers.. this is kinda annoying..
is there anything which can be done in the patch, in the code, in editor (instead of changing nationality)? I appreciate your feedback..

Craig Forrest
21-12-14, 04:30 PM
I get offered jobs when a) I am the same nationality of the team that's offering b) when I've amended my CA/PA to a high level (like 180/180) and c) when I've been playing for a long time

That's pretty much it though......

nexima
21-12-14, 06:13 PM
thanks for the info....
at this point i have a question : i would assume that CA/PA should naturally go up when we win a European cup, become champion, etc.. reputation is going up, even takin the first ranking in overall list... so this still does not help to get jobs?

Craig Forrest
21-12-14, 07:16 PM
Rep goes up but CA/PA stays the same as whatever it was when you were first created as a manager..... so if it started at 13/27 that's where it will stay....

Pabbers
01-01-15, 01:07 PM
What is the best Save game editor for this, with Oct DB, tapani 3.9.68 and patcher 2.19 in 2014 ??

Currently Inter, won 3 titles in a row, 2 CL's but cant even get the Hull or Swansea jobs!!

Any help is appreciated.

rockafella_50
24-02-15, 07:07 PM
Mate, what is that you're using to edit the manager attributes etc? And why have I never seen that before??? lol :wacko:

Craig Forrest
24-02-15, 07:27 PM
GK save editor in the downloads section :ok:

http://www.champman0102.co.uk/downloads.php?do=file&id=16

rockafella_50
24-02-15, 08:43 PM
Nice one man! I'll give this a bash. Never even knew there was such a thing!!

Craig Forrest
24-02-15, 09:02 PM
1. Run it and the game as an admin
2. Don't expect instant results..... changing your CA/PA and adding a second nationality HELPS.... but there are a lot of other factors that the game looks at

rockafella_50
24-02-15, 09:36 PM
Cool. Fecking Chrome keeps preventing me from downloading it - thinks it's a dodgy file.... urgh

Craig Forrest
24-02-15, 09:48 PM
Should ask you if you want to keep that kind of file or discard it...... mine does.... maybe I changed something in settings...

rockafella_50
24-02-15, 10:09 PM
Yeah I just used a different browser and it downloaded fine. Any tips on what else I can use that editor for other than changing the CA/PA for the manager? (that you can't do on the normal editor)

Craig Forrest
24-02-15, 10:22 PM
that editor is great.... and it edits save games, not just pre-game stuff like the official one..... I also use CM explorer for pre-game stuff too.....

JLa
07-05-15, 08:33 AM
Have anyone done some serious, long-term testing of this issue? In my current save I have been going for much longer than I usually do; I'm about to start my 17th season or so. I have noticed I am starting to get job offers without applying; the most recent ones being from Chelsea and England (international manager). It made me think perhaps we are too impatient about this thing. Perhaps expecting job offers after having 3-4 successful seasons is a bit unrealistic?

My manager is English (that might explain the job offers from Chelsea and England).
I started at Anderlecht, won a lot. Went to FC Köln after five years or so, won a lot. Then went to Arsenal, won a lot. Currently at Getafe in Spain, have won promotion from the Spanish 2nd division but not much else yet.

I haven't checked my CA/PA. My reputation is probably around the 200 mark, though.

This might all be a coincidence, hence my question if anyone has tested this for 20+ seasons..


edit: Oh, never mind, I just read the opening posts of this thread. That's some serious testing all right! :lol:

Craig Forrest
07-05-15, 04:36 PM
I'm 30 years in and I get offers from lots of places... I'm dual nationality and set my CA/PA at game start to 180/180..... but didn't start getting serious offers until about 20-25 years in

Redknapp69
11-05-15, 05:04 PM
Yep - doing some of the challenges like CF I have had loads of job offers - usually come after quite a few years though

saturn
02-07-15, 09:17 PM
There's potentially a solution to this problem here (http://www.champman0102.co.uk/showthread.php?t=5737&p=240590#post240590). It needs testing so any feedback is welcomed.

Humbs
04-03-16, 10:41 AM
I just don't manage to find my save in the editor so i can change my CA. Can you help me please?

Thanks and great post

Jesus
04-03-16, 10:45 AM
I just don't manage to find my save in the editor so i can change my CA. Can you help me please?

Thanks and great post
For your info, this thread isn't relevant if you're using the latest Tapani patch. The save game editor you're looking for is CM Explorer.

Fods
04-03-16, 10:48 AM
I just don't manage to find my save in the editor so i can change my CA. Can you help me please?

Thanks and great post

Use Gk Editor, its the most stable of the editors

Change your PA/CA and you can also add second nationality of the country you want to move to.

Make sure you run the editor as administrator!

GK Editor (http://champman0102.co.uk/downloads.php?do=file&id=16)