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  1. #1
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    Question Newbie...sort of

    Hi, guys.

    Hope all is well.

    I DLed CM 01-02 last weekened (goodbye, social life! ).

    Anyhow, I wanted to lay out a few concerns/questions/points and it seems like this is a good plavce to do so. Back in the day I used to participate in thedugout.net forum.

    So here are my questions. I would really appreciate it if you guys could offer input

    1. Are there tactics that simply do not work in some leagues/countries?
    2. When you guys create tactics, are those tactics supposed to last “forever” perse? What I mean by this is that I usually once I’d start a 2nd season, after a succesful 1st season, using the same tactic, I usually would not get a win for at least the first couple of games (6-8 games). Then, when I played I was a kid so didn’t really have much patience to keep on trying. In other words, if I download a tactic here, will that “help” me for a couple of seasons?

    I know you guys place a lot on emphasis on tactics, 3. how much emphasis do you place on tactics? If so, what do you suggest?

    Well, that’s it for now. I hope to pick everyone’s brains further down the line once I come up with more questions.

    Mods: feel free to move this thread accordingly.

    Thanks in advance for your responses.

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  3. #2
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    Hi and to the club!

    I'll give my thoughts on the questions you've asked. I feel that there are no definite 'answers' to them so I'll give you my opinion.

    1. No I don't think so. Tactics work based on the players you have. If you can't get any players (no money or low reputation) then suit the tactic to what players you have.

    2. I have never suffered from the so called 'second season syndrome' and I think it's a mental thing. I always add new players to my lineup to keep it fresh and my tactics never seem to 'fall off'

    3. A tactic can only bring you so far, but if you want to know what scores well in holiday mode you should take a look at the Revamped Tactic League Table: https://champman0102.co.uk/showthread.php?t=10031

    Cheers!

  4. #3
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    Tactics do not get cracked like you mention, but eventually the AI will change up its own formations to try do better against you. Against the best tactics it doesn't really matter but you might need to change up if you find that the AI has figured out a tactic which performs well against you. I think you feel this more when you use non-wiwob formations. In one game I played mainly 4-2-1-3 non-wibwob formation for around 10 years with good success. Eventually I noticed that the AI started to play 4-1-3-2 against me (and only against me) with good success. I changed to a 4-1-4-1 and problem was over. Pretty soon the AI returned to playing the manager's preferred formations once again.

    The very best tactics (Tapani Iodine etc) are so good you can put literally anyone in to the side and clean up. That's fine if that's what you want but if you prefer to keep the game a bit challenging then I recommend not to use them.

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  6. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenny Dalglish's Smile View Post
    Tactics do not get cracked like you mention, but eventually the AI will change up its own formations to try do better against you. Against the best tactics it doesn't really matter but you might need to change up if you find that the AI has figured out a tactic which performs well against you. I think you feel this more when you use non-wiwob formations. In one game I played mainly 4-2-1-3 non-wibwob formation for around 10 years with good success. Eventually I noticed that the AI started to play 4-1-3-2 against me (and only against me) with good success. I changed to a 4-1-4-1 and problem was over. Pretty soon the AI returned to playing the manager's preferred formations once again.

    The very best tactics (Tapani Iodine etc) are so good you can put literally anyone in to the side and clean up. That's fine if that's what you want but if you prefer to keep the game a bit challenging then I recommend not to use them.
    I second this.

    If you do want to play with the top wibwobbed tactics, but still want a challenge, I suggest you use this harder AI pack that samsami created (https://champman0102.co.uk/downloads.php?do=file&id=221). All the tactics in there are strong and will even make Iodine tactics struggle.

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  8. #5
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    That is absolutely true!

    All my stories (Feyenoord, Southampton, Tottenham and Blackburn Rovers) prove that it remains very challenging to play against the AI tactic pack!

  9. #6
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    Lightbulb

    Hi, guys.

    Thanks so much for the responses.

    And I apologize for my late reply.

    I now have more questions.

    1. When you guys says “wob”, that means “without ball/with ball”. In other words, tactics in which you guys don’t mess with either screen, no?

    2. I recently started using a 4123 tactic: my research indicated that statistically the more succesful tactics employ at least one DM, 4 at the back, as well as either one attacker or three. I pushed my defensive line all the way upto midfield.

    I still need help in terms of tinkering with wib/wob, so any tutorials would be much appreciated. For some odd reason I have been unable to find the “tactics” folder on my CM download. So d’loading tactics is out of the question for the time being.

    3. I have always had Qs on training (which is what I meant to type on my OP. For the most part, since I bought the game in 2002, I usually keep it very simple (kind of following what the manual says): Goalkeeping for goalies; Tactics for defenders; Skills for midfielders (and young players I want to improve); Shooting for attackers. I use fitness for every player that it’s not a 100%.

    I have followed that guideline religiously for almost 20 years now and would be more than open to implementing different ideas. How much do you guys think training affects your team’s performances?

    4. Lastly, I have noticed that “determination” is a crucial stat for any good player. Have you guys ever come across a good player with low determination?

    Thanks a lot for your responses.

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  11. #7
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    1. wib/wob is short for "with ball/without ball". When people talk about wib/wob-tactics it means that the creator have edited the players' positions on those screens. The opposite is called "no wib wob" or NWW.

    2. I would not agree although I don't make tactics myself right now. If you look out the Revamped tactic league you will find that only 1 of the top 20 tactics have 4 defenders! I like to play more realistic formations though so I try to have 4 defenders on the formation, but there are seemingly better tactics.
    Last edited by Felix; 04-12-17 at 11:03 PM.

  12. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gonznj View Post
    1. When you guys says “wob”, that means “without ball/with ball”. In other words, tactics in which you guys don’t mess with either screen, no?
    Wib-wobbing means making changes in the wib (with ball) and wob (without ball) screens.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gonznj View Post
    2. I recently started using a 4123 tactic: my research indicated that statistically the more succesful tactics employ at least one DM, 4 at the back, as well as either one attacker or three. I pushed my defensive line all the way upto midfield.

    I still need help in terms of tinkering with wib/wob, so any tutorials would be much appreciated. For some odd reason I have been unable to find the “tactics” folder on my CM download. So d’loading tactics is out of the question for the time being.
    I recently wrote this guide for beginners about wibwobbing: https://champman0102.co.uk/showthread.php?t=10133.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gonznj View Post
    3. I have always had Qs on training (which is what I meant to type on my OP. For the most part, since I bought the game in 2002, I usually keep it very simple (kind of following what the manual says): Goalkeeping for goalies; Tactics for defenders; Skills for midfielders (and young players I want to improve); Shooting for attackers. I use fitness for every player that it’s not a 100%.

    I have followed that guideline religiously for almost 20 years now and would be more than open to implementing different ideas. How much do you guys think training affects your team’s performances?
    Training affects the players in a huge way. The Eejit did some excellent research on it which you can find here: https://champman0102.co.uk/showthread.php?t=714.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gonznj View Post
    4. Lastly, I have noticed that “determination” is a crucial stat for any good player. Have you guys ever come across a good player with low determination?
    Determination means 'The will to win' during a match. It also governs how hard a player will train. This makes Determination a very important stat in my eyes. There are good players with low Determination, but not much.

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  14. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by GFRay View Post
    Wib-wobbing means making changes in the wib (with ball) and wob (without ball) screens.
    Determination means 'The will to win' during a match. It also governs how hard a player will train. This makes Determination a very important stat in my eyes. There are good players with low Determination, but not much.
    Determination affects how likely a player is to reach their full potential. This implies that players who generate with high current ability but lower determination can still reach a very high level.

    I did some testing on this which may still be somewhere on the site. I ran multiple seasons where all players in the team had 20 determination or they all had 1 determination. I believe I used Arsenal for the test. When all players had determination 20 they had quite high ratings in general and won the league. When all players had determination 1 they had slightly lower ratings and finished 4th. Draw your own conclusions there, but I would suggest that determination is not a magic factor and that you can certainly carry a couple of lower determination players.

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