Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 51 to 75 of 115

Thread: CM Scout Intrinsic

  1. #51

    Join Date
    27-10-14
    Location
    The Netherlands
    Posts
    7,105
    vCash
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by vfilatov View Post
    For each attribute with value v and weight w we calculate the weighted value k as
    k = (v / 20) * w
    Then we summarize all the weighted values and divide by the sum of the weights.
    Below the sample for two attributes.
    Code:
                k  =  v    *   w
    Passing     9    18/20    10
    Long Shots  1     5/20     4
    _______________________________________________
               10      /      14 = 0.71 * 100 = 71%
    Note: for Dirtiness and Injury Proneness if real value is v we use 21 - v as v in the formula because а smaller value is better for these attributes.
    Scout Rating is different from the Scout Rating percentage in CMScout, I noticed?
    In simple English, how important is scout rating actually, compared to CA/PA or attributes?

    Also the in-game attributes for positioning (and note that this only applies to goalkeepers!) are totally different from the positioning attributes for goalkeepers in CMScout. There may be other discrepancies as well, but if there are I have not found those yet.
    Last edited by samsami; 18-11-18 at 10:43 AM.

  2. #52

    Join Date
    26-09-18
    Location
    Brazil
    Posts
    738
    vCash
    968
    Quote Originally Posted by samsami View Post
    Scout Rating is different from the Scout Rating percentage in CMScout, I noticed?
    In simple English, how important is scout rating actually, compared to CA/PA or attributes?

    Also the in-game attributes for positioning (and note that this only applies to goalkeepers!) are totally different from the positioning attributes for goalkeepers in CMScout. There may be other discrepancies as well, but if there are I have not found those yet.
    I dont know about cm scout because i only use this cm scout intrinsic. I just know cm scout uses in game attributes while cm scout intrinsic uses intrinsic attributes.

    If you use a good weight set in cm scout intrinsic, then the scout rating in cm scout intrinsic is much more important to determine a player performance than ca and pa and than in game attributes, because intrinsic attributes are much more representative of a player performance than ca and pa and than in game attributes.

    As for your positioning comment,do you mean cm scout or cm scout intrinsic? If its cm scout then its strange, it should be equal of in game. If cm scout intrinsic, then thats expected, all ca15 in game attributes are different than the ca15 shown in cm scout intrinsic.

  3. #53

    Join Date
    27-10-14
    Location
    The Netherlands
    Posts
    7,105
    vCash
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by MadScientist View Post
    I dont know about cm scout because i only use this cm scout intrinsic. I just know cm scout uses in game attributes while cm scout intrinsic uses intrinsic attributes.

    If you use a good weight set in cm scout intrinsic, then the scout rating in cm scout intrinsic is much more important to determine a player performance than ca and pa and than in game attributes, because intrinsic attributes are much more representative of a player performance than ca and pa and than in game attributes.

    As for your positioning comment,do you mean cm scout or cm scout intrinsic? If its cm scout then its strange, it should be equal of in game. If cm scout intrinsic, then thats expected, all ca15 in game attributes are different than the ca15 shown in cm scout intrinsic.
    No, I have CM Scout Intrinsics with CA15 attributes viewmode set to show In Game values (as they appear in the game) so all the values are exactly like in CM Scout. However positioning (for goalkeepers only) is way off in CM Scout Intrinsics. That must be a bug, if I'm not mistaken.

  4. The Following User Says Thank You to samsami For This Useful Post:


  5. #54

    Join Date
    26-09-18
    Location
    Brazil
    Posts
    738
    vCash
    968
    Quote Originally Posted by samsami View Post
    No, I have CM Scout Intrinsics with CA15 attributes viewmode set to show In Game values (as they appear in the game) so all the values are exactly like in CM Scout. However positioning (for goalkeepers only) is way off in CM Scout Intrinsics. That must be a bug, if I'm not mistaken.
    That must be a bug then indeed.

  6. #55

    Join Date
    27-10-14
    Location
    The Netherlands
    Posts
    7,105
    vCash
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by MadScientist View Post
    That must be a bug then indeed.
    Unless I'm missing something, yes. Hope it can be fixed then.

  7. The Following User Says Thank You to samsami For This Useful Post:


  8. #56

    Join Date
    27-10-14
    Location
    The Netherlands
    Posts
    7,105
    vCash
    0
    Question:

    How come the best player in my current Feyenoord story (Robin van Persie) scores so low in CM Scout and in CM Scout Intrinsic and in Mad Scientist's wight set while his average rating in my save game is clarly the highest (and he is the top scorer and he provides assists.)

    I must say the game is realistic but the scouting percentages are far too low. How can that be?

  9. The Following User Says Thank You to samsami For This Useful Post:


  10. #57

    Join Date
    27-10-14
    Location
    The Netherlands
    Posts
    7,105
    vCash
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by samsami View Post
    Question:

    How come the best player in my current Feyenoord story (Robin van Persie) scores so low in CM Scout and in CM Scout Intrinsic and in Mad Scientist's wight set while his average rating in my save game is clarly the highest (and he is the top scorer and he provides assists.)

    I must say the game is realistic but the scouting percentages are far too low. How can that be?
    (Is it because the app uses Intrinsic Normalised values for filters? Because when I look at the Intrinsic Normalised atts for Van Persie they are way lower than his in-game attributes. But if that's the reason, what's the use/purpose of those Intrinsic Normalised values??)

  11. The Following User Says Thank You to samsami For This Useful Post:


  12. #58

    Join Date
    26-09-18
    Location
    Brazil
    Posts
    738
    vCash
    968
    Quote Originally Posted by samsami View Post
    Question:

    How come the best player in my current Feyenoord story (Robin van Persie) scores so low in CM Scout and in CM Scout Intrinsic and in Mad Scientist's wight set while his average rating in my save game is clarly the highest (and he is the top scorer and he provides assists.)

    I must say the game is realistic but the scouting percentages are far too low. How can that be?
    The scout percentages are low (normally bellow 60, far from 100) for all players in my weight set but thats on purpose, because i put lots of attributes into consideration in my weight set so it will never classify any players with a rating near 100 because its a very rigorous weight set.

    So, it doesnt matter how close the scout percentage of a player is to 100. What matters is how close it is to the best scouting percentages of the players from the same position in the same weight set.

    For example, lets say van persie percentage in his position is 55. To know if it is a good percentage, you need to compare with the scouting percentages of the other players from his same position using the same weight set. If he is a great player he should have one of the best scouting percentages of his position, even if thats a low percentage (far from 100).

    If thats not the case with van persie, please let me know and share a screenshot of his attributes in cm scout intrinsic so that i can adjust my weight set, as i know its still far from perfect.

  13. #59

    Join Date
    27-10-14
    Location
    The Netherlands
    Posts
    7,105
    vCash
    0
    Okay, here goes:

    Ratings with your weight set:



    My start player:



    The striker for our Reserves, whose scouting rating is better than Van Persie's (also in the App with the CM Scout set and with the Default set) but in CM Scout itself Van Persie's rating is ten points higher!!


  14. The Following User Says Thank You to samsami For This Useful Post:


  15. #60

    Join Date
    26-09-18
    Location
    Brazil
    Posts
    738
    vCash
    968
    I think 50.14 is a fairly good rating for an attacker in my weight set. Crysencio has an insane intrinsic for dribling and great intrinsic for finishing, he is probably going to be a freak if you put him to play more constantly. Looking at those screenshots i think the scout ratings are as expected, but i would be interested to see van persie intrinsic attributes screenshot from cm scout intrinsic to analyse better.

    The default sets of this app have very low weights, max 25, so they arent very accurate in my opinion, so my set has 250 value and i think is more accurate.
    The cm scout app only uses in game atts, not intrinsic, that why it cant detect crysencio is a freak.

  16. #61

    Join Date
    27-10-14
    Location
    The Netherlands
    Posts
    7,105
    vCash
    0
    Aha, now I understand. So his intrinsic for dribbling and for finishing indicate that he is an extremely talented attacker who might become a star player. Well, we'll see.

  17. The Following User Says Thank You to samsami For This Useful Post:


  18. #62

    Join Date
    27-10-14
    Location
    The Netherlands
    Posts
    7,105
    vCash
    0
    Am I right in assuming that CM Scout 'calculates' how good a player is right now solely based on his current attributes, while CM Scout Intrinsic calculates how good a player will become solely based on his intrinsic value?

    That would explain a lot.

    Having said that, how they really perform depends on many more factors: Their 'happiness', their 'current form', the formation, the combination of players, etc. Much like in real life

  19. The Following User Says Thank You to samsami For This Useful Post:


  20. #63

    Join Date
    26-09-18
    Location
    Brazil
    Posts
    738
    vCash
    968
    Quote Originally Posted by samsami View Post
    Am I right in assuming that CM Scout 'calculates' how good a player is right now solely based on his current attributes, while CM Scout Intrinsic calculates how good a player will become solely based on his intrinsic value?
    No, both calculate for now, not future. Cm scout uses solely in game attributes. Cm scout intrinsic uses solely intrinsic attributes (except for non CA15 atts). Intrinsic attributes should be more accurate than in game attributes to determine a player current performance as per experiments that can be found in this forum (but still there are many things not yet fully understood about those different types of attributes and how they affect players performance, so there is room for new discoveries). And it also depends if you use a good weight set, and no one knows exactly what is a good weight set because theres many things in the match engine that noone knows how they really works.

    Quote Originally Posted by samsami View Post
    Having said that, how they really perform depends on many more factors: Their 'happiness', their 'current form', the formation, the combination of players, etc. Much like in real life
    Exactly, you are absolutely right. In the end, there is no way to say which player is better just based on attributes, be it intrinsic or not. There is a lot more factors to determine if a player is good or not, not only the attributes. For example, sometimes in real life a player is playing really great games, then the club changes the manager, and suddenly the player starts performing very badly. The same thing happens in the game. So the tools just give you a rough estimation of how good a player is in theory. In practice, its a matter of trying, and making the right use of the players you have based on their characteristics, and a lot more factors, just like in real life.

  21. The Following User Says Thank You to MadScientist For This Useful Post:


  22. #64
    Tournaments Won: 11

    Join Date
    15-12-11
    Location
    Your Mother
    Posts
    32,680
    vCash
    480000
    Looking forward to trialling some of the players your weights list finds. Found a DC with a 60+ Rating but 5 for jumping, 7 for strength and 4 for aggression. That will be an interesting test (he's got 59 as an intrinsic for tackling )

  23. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Dermotron For This Useful Post:


  24. #65

    Join Date
    26-09-18
    Location
    Brazil
    Posts
    738
    vCash
    968
    Quote Originally Posted by Dermotron View Post
    Looking forward to trialling some of the players your weights list finds. Found a DC with a 60+ Rating but 5 for jumping, 7 for strength and 4 for aggression. That will be an interesting test (he's got 59 as an intrinsic for tackling )
    That will be interesting indeed. Whats his positioning? In real life, reminds me of Mauro Galv„o, one of best DCs ever in brazil, very weak and small, he had insane positioning and tackling and mental atts. He knew all the shortcuts in the field. Hoppefully that can happen in game too. Just dont put him to play with another short dc, and dont put him to mark the big guys!

    About agression, its one of the 3 mysterious atts i mentioned. There is not much evidence if its important fordefensive or attacking in the game. Per somemessages that appear in the game, it seems to me its more attacking related so i didnt put big weight on it for DCs.
    Last edited by MadScientist; 21-11-18 at 06:28 PM.

  25. The Following User Says Thank You to MadScientist For This Useful Post:


  26. #66

    Join Date
    26-09-18
    Location
    Brazil
    Posts
    738
    vCash
    968
    One more thing i would like to add to this conversation, i think its very important and explains some differnent types of players and how intrinsic atts can be actually a realistic thing perhaps planned by the game developers:

    - Players like van persie: They have high CA, good intrinsic for all his important atts (not bad, not freak, just good), great physical and mental atts. So, those players can be considered 'complete' players. This makes them to be very reliable and easy to use. Whatever instructions you give to them, whoever their oponents and teammates are, whichiever tactic u use, whathever the situation is, you can even put them a little out of position, and u can rest assured they will perform well. Thats why they are so expensive, in the game and in real world, its sure they will be worth the money.

    - Players like crycensio (from Sams screenshot) and the DC found by Dermo: They have low CA, freak intrinsic for 1 att, great intrinsic for another 1 or 2 atts, and the rest is really bad intrinsic atts, usually followed by bad physical and or mental atts. They are freaking specialists in one single thing and really bad in the rest. This makes them very unreliable and hard to use. They can perform like a beast (thats why their scouting percentages are usually higher than the van persie type of player), but only if you work hard to make sure to put him to play under the circunstances he needs to perform well. You need to give them the exact instructions that match their speciality, in the right tatic, in the perfect positio , with the right team mates, against the right oponents, you cant ask them to do anything out of their specialities, otherwise they will play like a bitch.

    For example if you put crysencio, who has freak dribbling, great finishng and long shots intrinsic, but ask him to try trough balls passing, he will suck. Otherwise if you ask him to come fron behind, run with ball, and try ling shots, dont put him in wet games, and maybe put him near the opponent who has the yellow card, he will win the game for you better than any other player could do.

    The same thing for Dermos DC. He can be a freak DC, one of the best in the world, but like Mauro Galv„o, he needs a tall partner DC, he cant be asked to man mark the big opponent guys, the attacker team mates need to receive instruction to go to defense in defensive set pieces to help with aerial balls, your team will score less goals from corners, and a lot more requirements need to be met.

    Thats why this type of player is much cheaper. They are always a risky purchase. They even may pass their entire careers unnoticed if they dont find a manager who knows how to play them. And if we stop to think, this happens a lot in real life. Some brazilian players can be examlple, anderson (ex man utd), oh man when he started his carrer he had such insane dribblig and pace, he could win a hard game alone, then he started playing to more demanding teams,being required to tactical instructikns, playing in mor defensive positions, now he is still young but playing bad in 2nd division of brazil, even forgot how to drbble due to no training. Ganso is another, started career as neymar teammate, everyone here said 'this neymar is good, but this ganso is a beast', but all his new managers requiring too many things from him, he only has insane creativity and paassing, the rest is shit, he only plays well if there is a neymar on his team otherwise noone will understand his creative passes. Today neymar is famous and ganso practically disappeared. Pato another example, and so on, those player are real life encarnations of low CA high intrinsic players.

    I think the developers of the game made the intrinsic attributes hidden because in real life this type of thing is really hard to identify. Only sometimes some managers in real life can identify it in some players. Understanding how intrinsic atts work in the game engine and making them visible allows you to defeat a team of CA 200 with a team of CA 1 (if your CA 1 players have freak intrinsic and if you make good use of your players). Some people say its not realistic, but if a manager could make this 'visualization cheat' in real life perhaps he could defeat a team of world class players with a team of failed stars, thats my analogy at least.

    Of course there are more types of players than this, in game and in real life, you can even have a combination of types in a single player, anyway that was just to try to explain how intrinsic atts can actually be a realistic thing and possible that was what the developers of the game had in mind with intrinsic atts, and also to explain how to read the scout percentages.
    Last edited by MadScientist; 22-11-18 at 12:38 PM.

  27. The Following User Says Thank You to MadScientist For This Useful Post:


  28. #67

    Join Date
    27-10-14
    Location
    The Netherlands
    Posts
    7,105
    vCash
    0
    I hope you're right

    There are some who say that the game engine is absurdly simple and we are making things up in our minds because we like to think the engine is brilliant.

    The fact remains that unexpected things happen to make players succeed and we don't know why (like Jason Steele in my Blackburn Rovers story who had mediocre attributes but became a world class player so I never needed to find a better goalkeeper) and I like that!

  29. The Following User Says Thank You to samsami For This Useful Post:


  30. #68

    Join Date
    27-10-14
    Location
    The Netherlands
    Posts
    7,105
    vCash
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by MadScientist View Post
    Cm scout intrinsic uses solely intrinsic attributes (except for non CA15 atts). Intrinsic attributes should be more accurate than in game attributes to determine a player current performance as per experiments that can be found in this forum (but still there are many things not yet fully understood about those different types of attributes and how they affect players performance, so there is room for new discoveries). And it also depends if you use a good weight set, and no one knows exactly what is a good weight set because there's many things in the match engine that no one knows how they really works.
    Yes, for CA15 attributes CM Scout Intrinsic uses so-called "Intrinsics Normalised" attributes.

    In my save-file the consequence is that:

    1. Robin van Persie's finishing (14 in-game) becomes 9 because of the intrinsic value of 244 (or -12)
    2. Crysencio Summerville's finishing (12) becomes 11 because of the intrinsic value of 1

    In other words, in game attributes mean very little!!

  31. The Following User Says Thank You to samsami For This Useful Post:


  32. #69

    Join Date
    26-09-18
    Location
    Brazil
    Posts
    738
    vCash
    968
    Quote Originally Posted by samsami View Post
    I hope you're right

    There are some who say that the game engine is absurdly simple and we are making things up in our minds because we like to think the engine is brilliant.
    Exactly. I am probably overthinking the game engine , but imagination plays a key role in this game, thats our way to appreciate it !

  33. #70

    Join Date
    20-09-18
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    1,790
    vCash
    1115
    Quote Originally Posted by samsami View Post
    Yes, for CA15 attributes CM Scout Intrinsic uses so-called "Intrinsics Normalised" attributes.

    In my save-file the consequence is that:

    1. Robin van Persie's finishing (14 in-game) becomes 9 because of the intrinsic value of 244 (or -12)
    2. Crysencio Summerville's finishing (12) becomes 11 because of the intrinsic value of 1

    In other words, in game attributes mean very little!!
    My apologies, but that made no sense.

    Sent from my HUAWEI Y560-L02 using Tapatalk

  34. #71

    Join Date
    27-10-14
    Location
    The Netherlands
    Posts
    7,105
    vCash
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by jacobclear View Post
    My apologies, but that made no sense.

    Sent from my HUAWEI Y560-L02 using Tapatalk
    Looking at my players from within the game Van Persie has 14 for finishing and young Summerville has 12 so he needs to develop more.

    CM Scout confirms that. Taken all atts into account (not only finishing) Van Persie scores almost ten points higher (69.43 vs 58.59)

    CM Scout Intrinsic looks at the Intrinsic Scores rather than the regular attributes and claims that young Summerville should be taken far more more seriously
    Last edited by samsami; 22-11-18 at 03:35 PM.

  35. The Following User Says Thank You to samsami For This Useful Post:


  36. #72

    Join Date
    26-09-18
    Location
    Brazil
    Posts
    738
    vCash
    968
    Quote Originally Posted by samsami View Post
    Yes, for CA15 attributes CM Scout Intrinsic uses so-called "Intrinsics Normalised" attributes.

    In my save-file the consequence is that:

    1. Robin van Persie's finishing (14 in-game) becomes 9 because of the intrinsic value of 244 (or -12)
    2. Crysencio Summerville's finishing (12) becomes 11 because of the intrinsic value of 1

    In other words, in game attributes mean very little!!
    Quote Originally Posted by jacobclear View Post
    My apologies, but that made no sense.

    Sent from my HUAWEI Y560-L02 using Tapatalk
    I know intrinsic attributes are a confusing thing, but what samsami said is true. Although van persie finishing in game is 14 and crysencio is 12, crysencio finishing is actually better than vanpersie because what matters most for the game engine is the hidden intrinsic value of the finishing attribute (which is higher for cryscencio: 1 > -12) and not the visible in game value. Thats why players with poor in game attributes sometimes are so freak in this game, like tsigalko and to madeira. In a first glance it appears nonsense, but thats how the engine works, and as u get used to it and undestand more how intrinsic atts work, it may start making more sense, and may even look a realistic thing depending on how you look at it.
    Last edited by MadScientist; 22-11-18 at 04:00 PM.

  37. #73

    Join Date
    27-10-14
    Location
    The Netherlands
    Posts
    7,105
    vCash
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by MadScientist View Post
    I know intrinsic attributes are a confusing thing, but what samsami said is true. Although van persie finishing in game is 14 and crysencio is 12, crysencio finishing is actually better than vanpersie because what matters most for the game engine is the hidden intrinsic value of the finishing attribute (which is higher for cryscencio: 1 > -12) and not the visible in game value. Thats why players with poor in game attributes sometimes are so freak in this game, like tsigalko and to madeira. In a first glance it appears nonsense and unrealistic, but thats how the engine works, and as u get used to it and understand it more, it may start making more sense, and may even look a realistic thing depending on how you look at it.
    As long as you don't think that the in-game attribute indicates all there is to know!

  38. #74

    Join Date
    30-03-12
    Location
    Cracow , Poland
    Posts
    25
    vCash
    500
    Trying to run this tool I've got: Arg_ArguemntOutOfRangeException What could possibly the reason for this even when running every uncopressed save as anticipated?

  39. #75

    Join Date
    26-09-18
    Location
    Brazil
    Posts
    738
    vCash
    968
    Quote Originally Posted by probs View Post
    Trying to run this tool I've got: Arg_ArguemntOutOfRangeException What could possibly the reason for this even when running every uncopressed save as anticipated?
    I get the same error when i open save game from .60 game version. It seems this tool doesn't work with .60 version, only works with .65 or above. Is that your case?

Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •