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Thread: VAR

  1. #1
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    VAR

    One of the items this WC is the VAR. As we are almost half way the tournament how do we feel about the VAR?

    Personally I do think it's a good move, but why did they use the biggest tournament as a pilot? (I know there have been pilots before but for most players this is the first time they have to deal with the VAR.) This WC there is a record of given penalties. Most of them are given after a 'VAR'-decision. Feels almost like not football, but fouls in the 16 are deciding the tournament, which is disappointing to me.

    I do feel the use of VAR makes football a lot more honest. I do think it will change football a bit, players will get more careful in the 16 to avoid the VAR. But it will take time for the players/teams to get to an usefull strategy to deal with VAR.

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    I think it highlights just how many fouls have gone unpunished in the past. Most of the VAR decisions were right I believe. If the players stopped fouling in the box, VAR wouldn't be so much of an issue. What players are learning is that things they would get away with in the past they no longer can. I imagine as players start to adapt the amount of penalties VAR gives will go down. It wouldn't be too surprising to see the number of penalties given die down in the latter stages, as the lower ranked teams typically play fotr more abrasive football to bridge the skill differences between the teams (like rugby tackling team Harry Kane for example). When it's the top teams less it may also die down abit.

  3. #3
    Still not enough yellows for simulation which, for me, is a bigger problem in the game.

    I think, and admittedly this is a crazy notion, there is a difference between a foul and a mistimed challenge. They are just too hard to distinguish. Fouls in the past probably weren't classed as fouls but that's because if a player in possession could stay on his feet, he would. Nowadays 99/100, you hit the ground and 100/100 if it's in the penalty box. Deception is rewarded/mostly unpunished.

    Manhandling in the box still goes unpunished. Mitrovic was grappled by two players the other night, a Mitrovic sandwich if you will, and VAR wasn't consulted.

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  5. #4
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    I think VAR has been great. Have been very impressed with the officiating of the games so far. The England-Tunisia game seemed to be the exception and the Mitrovic sandwich was a penalty, “clear and obvious,” too. So, yes, VAR isn’t faultless but still has fewer errors than solely human officiating. The difference is people are happy for a human to be wrong but expect a computer/computer assisted decision to be faultless.

    Agree with Erk on the point about staying on their feet. At any level I’ve played at, I’ve never been able to bring myself to dive, but it’s incredibly frustrating because I fail to get stonewall free kicks because I stay on my feet. That’s why, although I hate diving, I by and large see the point in many doing so. I’d also point out - though it may be sucking eggs for most of you, especially if you’ve played the game - even the slightest clip will send you tumbling if you’re running at full speed and get caught by anyone with any muscle to them.

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    I don't get why players are going down diving for a freekick/penalty, yet are not getting punished for it? There was a clear dive in one of the first games yet he never got booked for simulation.

    I like VAR as it's there to get things right after all, but there have been some cases where its descended into a farce. Not sure it was used correctly in the France/Australia game and it's certainly not been used correctly in others (Kane vs Tunisia as we all know and as Erk said, Mitrovic being held by those 2 players was simply outrageous).

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    I think the Neymar over ruled penalty should have been an auto yellow, if it's not a penalty it's simulation.

    Can't not agree with Erk in terms of it's usage for simulation, cheating. Pepe falling to the ground after a pat on the back, instant yellow. That Iranian lad that don't 6 rolls, instant yellow. Automatic 5/10 minutes off the field for treatment for any player down more than 5 seconds would sort a lot of it out real quick.

  8. #7
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    Understand why people love it - personally hate it. But that is okay, because this isn't my football an more. Having been a referee, I understand the pain of getting decisions wrong. Regardless, as referee or also playing, my mantra always was: the referee makes a situation based decision in the moment. And that's it. You take it. The good and the bad. That's part of the game. Now it isn't any more.

    Minutes pass where a ref looks at a screen checking and still doesn't get it right all the time, though. There is still so much subjectivity involved. There are still situations where it isn't totally clear. What is clear: every little contact counts these days to justify a decision yet refereeing is never going to be flawless. It's a game and its rules are always subject to interpretation.

    VAR in my eyes kills momentum and emotions. How many minutes until the decision is confirmed - peno or not? The rawness of anguish of the conceding team's supporters or joy of the team about going to take the kick is gone by the time the decision is confirmed. It does kill the joy of celebrating a goal. As minutes later it can be taken away. So do you even celebrate? Or do you wait until VAR confirms? Is that the same sort of celebratory feeling?

    It kills the joy of arguing about referee decisions, during- and after the game too. What's the point anyway, now? Those critical decisions, was it a peno or not, was it a goal or not.... isn't that also part of the joy of going to a football game? Things we talk about for years to come? I may exaggerate here, of course. But we had so many VAR decisions at this world cup already - a WC I actually enjoy - but VAR makes a lot of that enjoyment kaputt for me personally.

    I understand all the arguments for it. Can see the side of the people as commented in this thread. You are totally right from a pure, serious side of the game. For me it is more about emotions and subjectivity. It's was I love about the game. I don't need it to be flawless. Part of the beauty of the game is that is isn't. That it is so subjective. That players and referees make mistakes. It's human.

    But again, this isn't my football any more - at least at the top end of the game - that's why I generally don't watch it any more, yet still love going to the local football.

    Probably I'm simply backwards and not progressive enough. One of those grumpy conservatives who don't understand the game has to evolve. "Got to go with the times". Fine with me. The majority of people love it for what it is right now. Good for them.

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    VAR is having a shocker in Portugal V Iran

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    Initially I actually thought that VAR worked out better than I thought but after the mess tonight I want it out of the sport ASAP. This is not football anymore.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Porridge Flo View Post
    VAR in my eyes kills momentum and emotions. How many minutes until the decision is confirmed - peno or not? The rawness of anguish of the conceding team's supporters or joy of the team about going to take the kick is gone by the time the decision is confirmed. It does kill the joy of celebrating a goal. As minutes later it can be taken away. So do you even celebrate? Or do you wait until VAR confirms? Is that the same sort of celebratory feeling?
    Tell that to me and the hundred or so others celebrating Spain's equaliser vs Morocco. This simply isn't the case. It may be arguable from the sofa, which we all do, but in a social environment I can assure you the roof was blown off when Aspas scored and then blown off once more a few minutes later after VAR had confirmed - we even got a minute or so of tense nail-biting in the interim. All of that I'll happily endure for the right outcome.

    Saturday morning football will still endure and will still be enjoyable - heck, I've been scythed down weekly for years after diving became a trend without succumbing or benefiting from it. This is still football.

    Quote Originally Posted by Felix View Post
    Initially I actually thought that VAR worked out better than I thought but after the mess tonight I want it out of the sport ASAP. This is not football anymore.
    Are you Porridge in disguise?

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    I think while VAR can be a good thing, the problem with it is that the ref will use it when he is told he may have missed something by the VAR referees. Therefore, when he is going to watch the incident he's going into it with the idea that he should change his mind. This, in turn, leads to very soft penalties like we saw tonight (literally could've knocked Portugal scored if Iran scored that second chance at the death). I don't think we've had a situation where a referee has used VAR and stuck with his initial decision.

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  14. #12
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    The main problem is this tournament is too soon. Most of the refs don't even use it week to week

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    Maybe so, but surely they'll have had training in the build-up to it?

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    Liam Brady reckons the refs are being told what to do and on last night's evidence I'd say it's true. Iran's penalty was never a penalty but a sympathy point for early mistakes. And if Ronaldo did elbow the player by the letter of the law it's a red. But the money men couldn't be missing one of their star attractions now could they? Unless Nigeria destroy Argentina from a footballing perspective I think they will get plenty of dodgy VAR decisions against them - to echo Brady's thinking.


    Anyhow, this tweet sums it up great:

    All this whining about VAR is ridiculous. It’s like blaming CCTV for a burglary.
    If a referee watches a replay and STILL makes a bad decision then that’s down to the competence of the official, not the review system.
    #VAR #WorldCup18

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  18. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dermotron View Post
    All this whining about VAR is ridiculous. It’s like blaming CCTV for a burglary.
    If a referee watches a replay and STILL makes a bad decision then that’s down to the competence of the official, not the review system.
    #VAR #WorldCup18
    This says it all for me.

    It's still down to humans to make the decision and not everyone will have the same opinion of an incident.

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  20. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by JayFlo View Post
    Tell that to me and the hundred or so others celebrating Spain's equaliser vs Morocco. This simply isn't the case. It may be arguable from the sofa, which we all do, but in a social environment I can assure you the roof was blown off when Aspas scored and then blown off once more a few minutes later after VAR had confirmed - we even got a minute or so of tense nail-biting in the interim. All of that I'll happily endure for the right outcome.

    Saturday morning football will still endure and will still be enjoyable - heck, I've been scythed down weekly for years after diving became a trend without succumbing or benefiting from it. This is still football.
    Fair enough. I know I stand alone. All of you guys love it, the majority is on your side. Simply stating my opinion - it doesn't do it for me. It kills the enjoyment of a football game for me. What happened there last night in the Iran game - that was shambolic.
    But then, I don't have to watch it (and won't do it once WC is over. CL and PL don't bother me in the slightest). You guys have to - so enjoy the fair new world of VAR football.
    Last edited by The Porridge Flo; 26-06-18 at 11:06 AM.

  21. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by hornbloweroafc View Post
    This says it all for me.

    It's still down to humans to make the decision and not everyone will have the same opinion of an incident.
    This is it in a nutshell from you and Derm

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Porridge Flo View Post
    Fair enough. I know I stand alone. All of you guys love it, the majority is on your side. Simply stating my opinion - it doesn't do it for me. It kills the enjoyment of a football game for me. What happened there last night in the Iran game - that was shambolic.
    But then, I don't have to watch it (and won't do it once WC is over. CL and PL don't bother me in the slightest). You guys have to - so enjoy the fair new world of VAR football.
    I wouldn't say I'm a big fan of VAR as the delay in getting to a decision as been too long! I mean how did it take the ref last night 5-10mins to decide if Iran should have a penalty or not (which he still got wrong!). The replay appears within seconds, a quick look by the VAR's and decide! It's not difficult but the refs are making it hard for themselves, incompetent and slow!

    Anyway VAR is here and we'll just have to enjoy it (or not). Better referees will make VAR work in time.

  23. #19
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    There are many problems with VAR. First of all, it will only move the discussion from "that should have been a penalty" to "the referee should have had a look at that situation using VAR", as there will always be situations that are close to the penalty kick call, or the VAR decision. Furthermore, now if the referee decides not to whistle (seems that it will increase more and more) and instead wants to rely on VAR, he will then find it very hard to go against the VAR team once they say it is a penalty (like Sweden v. South korea or Portugal's one last night, even though that one was very clear). Then one may ask one self who really is the referee in the game. The referee or the VAR guys sitting in another city.

    Also, the attempts from players to impact the referee has already increased from a high level to an even higher level. If there is a chance to make a referee disallow a conceded goal, or send off an opposing player, the players will take that opportunity. We will se more and more VAR situations and hence see slower and less flowing games.

    Quote Originally Posted by JayFlo View Post
    Are you Porridge in disguise?
    Huh?

  24. #20
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    The simple way of stopping players appealing for VAR is only captain speaks to the ref, automatic booking for everyone else.

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  26. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dermotron View Post
    The simple way of stopping players appealing for VAR is only captain speaks to the ref, automatic booking for everyone else.
    Works in theory but can't see that happen. Referees won't dare to book players for that, and the players know it. There are already lots of gesture making towards the referees that should render in a warning but doesn't do so.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Felix View Post
    Works in theory but can't see that happen. Referees won't dare to book players for that, and the players know it. There are already lots of gesture making towards the referees that should render in a warning but doesn't do so.
    Simple to implement if they want to do it - works in rugby easy enough

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    Going to be out in the CL from Quarters (I think) onwards

    What a joke - good enough for the ‘big’ teams at that stage but not before

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    It's in all major league's bar EPL ain't it?

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    That means Barcelona and Juventus won't make it past the quarter finals then!

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