Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 26

Thread: How to identify good players

  1. #1
    Join Date
    02-04-12
    Posts
    811
    vCash
    500

    How to identify good players

    - without using CM Scout and other tools?

    In my current save I picked up this striker on a Bosman. I couldn't believe my luck and was expecting great things from him. But after nearly half a season, he's not playing as I thought he would.

    Screenshot:



    To my eyes he looks like a very good all rounder.
    + good acceleration and pace (17/15)
    + good decisions (16)
    + good finishing (16)
    + very good heading and jumping (18/17)
    + good off the ball (17)
    + good strength (18)

    Granted, there are no 20's here, but he ticks all the boxes I would expect from a good striker. He even has high determination (18) and work rate (15) thrown in.

    He's playing as a single striker in a 4-1-4-1.

    Why isn't this guy scoring?

    Are there any 'warnings' amongst his attributes? Could (should...?) I have known he would be just average?

    It just pisses me off I can't seem to find a good striker in this game! I have others too, there's this other guy who is much more reliable. His finishing is 20 but the rest of the attributes are in the 11-13 range, so I assumed he wouldn't be as good. He would hit the target given the chance, but then again I thought he would struggle to get to those chances. But so far he's the one I've been subbing in for goals.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    10-09-12
    Posts
    86
    vCash
    500
    Aggression and Bravery stats aren't that great, but I'd have gone for him with the rest of those attributes. He's still fairly young, so maybe the best is yet to come?

  3. #3
    GFRay's Avatar
    GFRay is online now Member of the Month
    Tactics Mod
    UML Mod
    VIP
    Join Date
    11-03-12
    Location
    The Netherlands
    Posts
    5,497
    vCash
    14990
    Well the lack of Technique makes it that he won't be able to control many passes that are played to him. But other than that he looks fine.

    It might more be a problem of lesser players around him that can't get the ball to him.
    Go check out my YouTube channel with lots of CM 01-02 related video's!

  4. #4
    Join Date
    02-04-12
    Posts
    811
    vCash
    500
    Hm, technique... Maybe I'll try putting him on some intensive skill training and see what comes out of it.

    He reminds me of a legend in cm 97/98, Bakayoko. He looked amazing with 20's all over the place, but I could never get him to perform. Must have been some mental, hidden stats.

  5. #5
    GFRay's Avatar
    GFRay is online now Member of the Month
    Tactics Mod
    UML Mod
    VIP
    Join Date
    11-03-12
    Location
    The Netherlands
    Posts
    5,497
    vCash
    14990
    Could also be low consistency, but that should go up the more he plays. So if he turns into a beast after 2~3 years you will know it was consistency
    Go check out my YouTube channel with lots of CM 01-02 related video's!

  6. #6
    Join Date
    08-03-12
    Location
    Copenhagen
    Posts
    777
    vCash
    500
    14 games is not enough time to tell, simple as that.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    02-04-12
    Posts
    811
    vCash
    500
    I eventually bought back one of my previous strikers. He had 33 goals in 36 apps before he was poached a few seasons ago due to a min release clause. Luckily they didn't use him so I could bring him back for pennies. He got 10 goals from 14 apps now (getting older).

    The main difference between this guy and the one in the OP is that the "good" one has better Anticipation (16 vs 12). His technique is also better (14 vs 10). But the other atts; finishing, off the ball, heading, pace... the new guy (OP) is better.

    Is anticipation super important?

    OP ended with 26 games and 10 goals. He spent half a season doing intensive skill training but his technique didn't move. F this, don't have time for him to develop! Finished 2nd this season after some really poor draws that really should have been wins if I had a good striker. Grrr.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    15-12-11
    Location
    Your Mother
    Posts
    30,929
    vCash
    1225700
    Like most CA related atts, Anticpation is either good really high or really low for strikers, not in between (Messi and Ronaldo have 1 for Anticipation I'm current DB, RvN has 20 on ODB)

    His atts from GK Save Game Editor would be more useful to say why he wasn't working. But 33 in 36 means there's nothing wrong as such

  9. #9
    Join Date
    02-04-12
    Posts
    811
    vCash
    500
    Resurrecting this. Any suggestions why this lad doesn't perform as a striker? Spent 33 million on him! God I hate buying players sometimes... either the clubs wont sell regardless of how much money I throw at them, or the players flat out suck.



  10. #10
    Join Date
    15-05-12
    Posts
    1,998
    vCash
    736
    He should be getting great ratings, with consistency of 13 its a strange one the only thing thats low is influence at 9, its questionable if that effects rating, Striker is his best postion on CM Scout, try him as AMC
    Last edited by evesham; 07-04-19 at 09:12 PM.

  11. The Following User Says Thank You to evesham For This Useful Post:


  12. #11
    Join Date
    20-09-18
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    1,875
    vCash
    750
    That's exactly what I would suggest. He's an AMC at best, and even right click drag in up either in between two strikers or behind one.

    Just a suggestion.

  13. #12
    Join Date
    15-12-11
    Location
    Your Mother
    Posts
    30,929
    vCash
    1225700
    Lot's of high attributes that aren't that useful for a striker (crossing, marking) a few low ones that would help e.g. teamwork.

  14. #13
    Join Date
    02-04-12
    Posts
    811
    vCash
    500
    Does it hurt that he has high ratings in "unnecessary" attributes, such as crossing?

    Its really hard finding players with high values in just a few attributes! Looking at Messi and the likes they have high values pretty much all over, so I didn't think it mattered?

  15. #14
    Join Date
    15-12-11
    Location
    Your Mother
    Posts
    30,929
    vCash
    1225700
    Messi's are controlled by his hidden attributes, his CA does the rest

  16. #15
    Join Date
    09-04-12
    Location
    Rotterdam, Holland
    Posts
    5,602
    vCash
    283456
    Quote Originally Posted by JLa View Post
    Resurrecting this. Any suggestions why this lad doesn't perform as a striker? Spent 33 million on him! God I hate buying players sometimes... either the clubs wont sell regardless of how much money I throw at them, or the players flat out suck.


    This man is not made for Premier League football. Bravery 7, strength 11, tackling and teamwork low. He'd do better in the French or Dutch leagues where defenses are less ruthless.

  17. #16
    Join Date
    07-08-13
    Posts
    193
    vCash
    250
    I often find players I buy from abroad perform better in their second season with the club. Just my opinion.

  18. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Shambalane For This Useful Post:


  19. #17
    Join Date
    26-09-18
    Location
    Brazil
    Posts
    448
    vCash
    333
    Quote Originally Posted by JLa View Post
    Does it hurt that he has high ratings in "unnecessary" attributes, such as crossing?
    If those attributes are CA-related (like crossing), then yes, it hurts, because those values as you see in the game are relative (not absolute), just so you can know the characteristics (strengths and weaknesses) of a player, and not how good and weak he is in each attribute in an absolute way.

    The game engine then converts the relative values into absolute values internally (you can't see them) using a formula based on the generalist vs specialist theory:



    So having too many high relative values in "unnecessary" attributes steals absolute points from the "necessary" attributes, causing them to be less effective (generalist image).

    Only a genius player (i.e. insanelly high CA player, for example) like Messi can be a freaking specialist in so many attributes at the same time (i.e. have high absolute values in so many attributes), the game formula takes this "genius player" thing into account.

  20. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to MadScientist For This Useful Post:


  21. #18
    Join Date
    26-09-18
    Location
    Brazil
    Posts
    448
    vCash
    333
    But, in the case of Jonatham Bamba, i think its more related to what everyone else posted above, such as his "Attacker" hidden att not being 20. Add to that his low "versatility" attribute, and his "center" position only 17, this causes him to struggle to play as striker (due to being out of preferred position and low versatility)

  22. #19
    Join Date
    02-04-12
    Posts
    811
    vCash
    500
    Thing is, how would I know without loading up an editor? His profile says attacking midfielder /forward and right/left/centre - I'm trying to do the forward / centre part..

  23. #20
    Join Date
    20-09-18
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    1,875
    vCash
    750
    He hasn't been that bad, you just have to experiment with different squad roles. I'd say No. 10 is best for him.

    Life lesson. If he isn't a FC or STC, he won't play well as a STC

  24. #21
    Join Date
    15-12-11
    Location
    Your Mother
    Posts
    30,929
    vCash
    1225700
    Quote Originally Posted by JLa View Post
    Thing is, how would I know without loading up an editor? His profile says attacking midfielder /forward and right/left/centre - I'm trying to do the forward / centre part..
    You wouldn't, that's the beauty of buying players in CM.

    Another tip is to check where his previous club played him. How many times have you bought a DLC tinking he was killing it at his previous club as a DL but was readlly playing DC


    I disagree with MS on versatility, from old testing it literally relates to a players ability to re-train for a new position. It could certainly be worth re-testing if there was actually something more behind ir

  25. The Following User Says Thank You to Dermotron For This Useful Post:


  26. #22
    Join Date
    26-09-18
    Location
    Brazil
    Posts
    448
    vCash
    333
    Quote Originally Posted by JLa View Post
    Thing is, how would I know without loading up an editor? His profile says attacking midfielder /forward and right/left/centre - I'm trying to do the forward / centre part..
    Quote Originally Posted by Dermotron View Post
    You wouldn't, that's the beauty of buying players in CM.

    Another tip is to check where his previous club played him. How many times have you bought a DLC tinking he was killing it at his previous club as a DL but was readlly playing DC
    Exactly! Just like in real life you know the most likelly positions of a player, but only after experimenting him in each position you will know which one he is more adapted to. You can infer he is not well trained for a position if he has good attributes for that position but is performing below expected in that position, like Jonathan Bamba. You can always try to train him on your desired position though, if he doesn't complain.

    Quote Originally Posted by JLa View Post
    I disagree with MS on versatility, from old testing it literally relates to a players ability to re-train for a new position. It could certainly be worth re-testing if there was actually something more behind ir
    Yeah I never made experiment with versatility, its just an idea ive ben having from some observations.

  27. The Following User Says Thank You to MadScientist For This Useful Post:


  28. #23
    Join Date
    15-12-11
    Location
    Your Mother
    Posts
    30,929
    vCash
    1225700
    It's along the lines of Penalties > only determines who takes the penalties even if reports from Scout say the player is an expert penalty taker. High Pressure is more important than anything. Basically you could have a whole squad with 1 for penalty and one guy with 2 and he becomes the default penalty taker. Pressure / finishing decides the rest.

  29. The Following User Says Thank You to Dermotron For This Useful Post:


  30. #24
    Join Date
    03-03-12
    Posts
    3,378
    vCash
    1295
    Quote Originally Posted by Dermotron View Post
    It's along the lines of Penalties > only determines who takes the penalties even if reports from Scout say the player is an expert penalty taker. High Pressure is more important than anything. Basically you could have a whole squad with 1 for penalty and one guy with 2 and he becomes the default penalty taker. Pressure / finishing decides the rest.
    and penalties is a CA15 stat.

    so if it doesn't actually make players better at penalties, what is your strategy with penalties when it comes to updating?

    because on one hand, you want the penalties to be moderately high so the top players score more goals , but you also don't want it taking away CA points from key areas.

  31. The Following User Says Thank You to Coys For This Useful Post:


  32. #25
    Join Date
    03-03-12
    Posts
    3,378
    vCash
    1295
    Quote Originally Posted by Dermotron View Post
    It's along the lines of Penalties > only determines who takes the penalties even if reports from Scout say the player is an expert penalty taker. High Pressure is more important than anything. Basically you could have a whole squad with 1 for penalty and one guy with 2 and he becomes the default penalty taker. Pressure / finishing decides the rest.
    and penalties is a CA15 stat.

    so if it doesn't actually make players better at penalties, what is your strategy with penalties when it comes to updating?

    because on one hand, you want the penalties to be moderately high so the top players score more goals , but you also don't want it taking away CA points from key areas.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •