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Thread: Increase in Red Cards since ODB

  1. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by MadScientist View Post
    Thanks, I agree it would be better to test this red card issue with saturn v5. But anyway, im using cm explorer to load the october 2018 preview save game and I see almost all players in the save game have temperament of 1, even players with very good behavior in real life, I think the correct should be 20.
    Actually, I am wrong, sorry. I mean, some players in the database are set with temperament of 1 while it should be 20, but it is not as many players as I thought. Except in brazilian leagues, where most of them are set to 1 or a very low number, possibly by mistake, but I think it is not related to the red cards issue.

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  3. #27

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    So...reading this thread....

    Is there an issue with more red/yellow cards or not?....between newest patch and ODB? - to be fair thats a big gap between versions ?...loads inbetween!?

    from what ive read....

    apparently no...as no "real" evidence to back that up...
    but then Kope22 "gave" evidence?...was it dismissed or not good enough?

    confusing thread?!?

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  5. #28
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    I think Derm worked out that it was to do with a setting in the DB which should be fixed if the attributes were swapped around?

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  7. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark View Post
    I think Derm worked out that it was to do with a setting in the DB which should be fixed if the attributes were swapped around?
    so Kope22 was right about there being "more" red/yellow cards??

  8. #30
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    I never really mentioned anything to be honest. Only pointed out that the data is there for anyone to test / run some math on ie work out the number of players with temperament filled in in both ODB and March DB for playable league's and then you'll have a starting point.

    The refs can be tested fairly easily since only 20 or so need to be changed at a time. Ruling stuff out makes it easier to narrow down what's the apparent cause


    As for evidence there's no evidence of anything in this thread yet regarding more red cards
    Last edited by Dermotron; 08-10-18 at 07:04 PM.

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  10. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark View Post
    I think Derm worked out that it was to do with a setting in the DB which should be fixed if the attributes were swapped around?
    ah ok...just wondered as MArk said he thought you had worked out the problem...still wondering if there is a problem ??

    Kope22's vid about changes not evidence of a problem?

    this is a tricky thread to work out...lots of conflicting debate

  11. #32
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    Just seen the vid (must have been blocked at work)

    You seem very interested or concerned, it would make you an ideal candidate to do some testing


    This thread is getting a bit derailed so I'll cut the "Red Card" posts into their own thread

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  13. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dermotron View Post
    Just seen the vid (must have been blocked at work)

    You seem very interested or concerned, it would make you an ideal candidate to do some testing
    thought kope22 had done testing...just interested if anything could be found out...worked out?...

  14. #34
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    Aye but there's no looking at the cause. There probably can be something worked out, just needs those with the time and interest to get cracking.

    Find the top 20 refs in England by Current Rep in the ODB and the March 2018 DB and add up their total attribute values

  15. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dermotron View Post

    Find the top 20 refs in England by Current Rep in the ODB and the March 2018 DB and add up their total attribute values
    sound advice to help

  16. #36
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    It will help us too since it's likely data related.

    There are the same amount of different posters in this thread as have worked on the entire October 2018 Data Update so the more that chip in the better

  17. #37
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    All down to the refs so . . .

    Aggression
    ODB 10.9
    M18 8.9

    Temperament
    ODB 10.9
    M18 10.8

    Dirtiness
    ODB 9.2
    M18 7.9

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  19. #38
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    ODB





    March 2018




    ODB is slightly more strict. The next check could be the solution/cause. The guys that made the ODB - DIDN'T fill any CA or PA in for the Refs.
    Last edited by Dermotron; 10-10-18 at 09:41 AM.

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  21. #39
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    ODB Refs





    March 18 Refs




    CA (Current Ability) and PA (Potential Ability) are the big differences here. Buuuuuuuuuuttttttttt referees don't have any intrinsic attributes so refs CA and PA should mean the square root of fuck all. That said it's the only test that's really worth doing i.e. lowering the CA and PA of the March 2018 refs and hoping for the best
    Last edited by Dermotron; 10-10-18 at 12:42 PM.

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  23. #40
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    Nice work, Dermo!

    Shame nobody did that testing for you to help you out

    Looking forwards to seeing the results in the official release

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  25. #41
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    I would have gladly helped myself, but didn't read this thread until today.

    I know Kope22 is not doing anything anymore after being told by Derm to refrain from posting in the October feedback thread.

    Also we've asked the members of the private FB group to do some testing on different patches and write down the results in regards to red/yellow cards. Not sure yet if this will deliver something usable, but perhaps it will.

    Good stuff Dermo!
    Go check out my YouTube channel with lots of CM 01-02 related video's!

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  27. #42
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    March 2018

    Set all refs to CA/PA 40 - total red cards in test #1 = 53

    Average total amount of Red cards over past 5 seasons = 52.4 (Source)

    ODB

    Original Settings: 56


    Looks CA/PA is cause. That's another bug up there with Game Importance

  28. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by GFRay View Post
    I would have gladly helped myself, but didn't read this thread until today.

    I know Kope22 is not doing anything anymore after being told by Derm to refrain from posting in the October feedback thread.

    Also we've asked the members of the private FB group to do some testing on different patches and write down the results in regards to red/yellow cards. Not sure yet if this will deliver something usable, but perhaps it will.

    Good stuff Dermo!
    Shame about Kope22 not posting anymore. I think he handled his feedback the wrong way rather than offering constructive feedback that the team could work with.

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  30. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by GFRay View Post
    I know Kope22 is not doing anything anymore after being told by Derm to refrain from posting in the October feedback thread.
    Asked Just for accuracy.

    Unlike some vids I've watched lately

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  32. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark View Post
    Shame about Kope22 not posting anymore. I think he handled his feedback the wrong way rather than offering constructive feedback that the team could work with.
    Yes he might have handled the feedback better, but on the other hand when you feel like that you're only allowed to post/give 'certain' feedback then it's hard to remain friendly at times.

    I know him well and he's very dedicated and emotional (aren't we all ) about this game. The amount of stuff he does to raise awareness for this game and also this forum on the private FB page is insane. He's always helping people out installing the game even with teamviewer taking over people's pc to get it done and makes some great video's about this game as well. You hardly see any of this and therefor dismiss him easily as probably someone that's only whining and not giving constructive feedback. I know for a fact that he's not that guy and can actually contribute something. Before Dermo asked him to stop posting he was even considering joining the Update Team himself to contribute to it because he also sees that there can only be done little with the amount of people that are available.

    But what's done is done and it's up to him if he will return or not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dermotron View Post
    Asked Just for accuracy.

    Unlike some vids I've watched lately
    I hope you're not referring to any of my video's Dermo? If you are then please point out what wasn't accurate so I can improve them.
    Go check out my YouTube channel with lots of CM 01-02 related video's!

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  34. #46
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    Don't think I've seen one of yours mate. Oh I did, the World Cup draw for the International Managers Competition.

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  36. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by GFRay View Post
    Yes he might have handled the feedback better, but on the other hand when you feel like that you're only allowed to post/give 'certain' feedback then it's hard to remain friendly at times.
    Feedback is very good, but that doesn't mean we have to agree with all the feedback we get. I do think Dermo explained very good why some suggestions of Kope weren't the best idea. He could also decide to ignore it, but was nice enough to say why he didn't agree. At this point I do believe it's more wisely to accept instead of accusing people of being biased in updating and saying the things we do are 'embarissing'. Then we reach a point when I think it's wise to say: 'Ok, this is how far we go and now it's time to stop.' So it's not like; we don't like (certain) feedback. But it's more like; ok please stay respectfull to us.

    I still don't think people really understand how much work there is in updating, when we started the Preview Save Game we didn't even had the time yet to take a good look at the players skills and this was also stated in the opening post.

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  38. #48

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    Good investigating Derm, I think refereeing as a whole is a bit all over the place in CM - few stats filled in, referees not always even in the same division, weird numbers of refs per division (40 in Australia!).

    I never knew you could view referees' stats in a save game editor either. I've been trying to find a perfect set of attributes for referees by looking at save games where they give a decent ratio of yellows and reds per game (currently they give far too few yellows per red). I've a feeling it won't be possible with the current code, any time I've found a referee in a save game giving a decent ratio it appears to have been a fluke. I've edited ~10 refs to match the save game ref's stats and the disparity in cards given is quite large, with only one or two giving the amounts I'd hoped for.

    Code wise it's hard to know what to look for. I've found reference to officials' discipline in the match engine part of the code, editing a few values around it gives some...interesting results. Changing the discipline code mightn't even be the answer, it could just give out more/fewer cards in the same ratio. So it might be their refereeing stat, pressure stat or it might have to be a change to the actual match event, eg a goalie bringing down a player in the area is usually now a yellow IRL, whereas it's usually a red in the game.

    I think lowering the reds to a lower level will be a good start anyway, I doubt many people will notice there are too few yellows given in the game.

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  40. #49
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    The 40/40 testing is working a treat ie CA40 PA40. The refs get picked to referee a division based on rep. I've adjusted some up and downing terms of their attributes but doesn't seem to make a huge difference. Even if you look at the attributes Vs. Results there's no real cooperation. Seems like an after thought that was forgotten about. Maybe there is some method to it all but I havent time to really get stuck in just at the minute.

    It could be worth lowering them all to say 30/30 if you had a genuine arse of a ref in real life who was double everyone else for cards, you'd just need to stick a very high CA on him.

    Maybe with a bit of digging a cards table Vs CA chart could be compiled to adjust league's which are better are worse than others - I'd imagine La Liga blows the EPL out of the water on yellows just from checking games on Livescore, you'd see at 1 game per week 10+ bookings

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  42. #50
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    That image is awesome btw. A great way to force squad rotation by the AI

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