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Thread: Increase in Red Cards since ODB

  1. #1
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    Increase in Red Cards since ODB

    Question for saturn and others:

    Do you also find that you get more red cards on the v5 patch than on other patches?

    I find there is a significant increase in 'random' red cards than in the previous patches. With a 'random' red card I mean red cards given for seemingly normal fouls that would at max deserve a yellow. I'm not talking about the lunging, reckless, two footed challenges.

    It feels like red cards are much more abundant in this latest patch and I'm not the only one to notice it. All my mates that I play online games with have noticed it as well since it hits us all much more than previous saves on the v4.

    Did you change anything saturn that could have caused this?
    Go check out my YouTube channel with lots of CM 01-02 related video's!

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  3. #2
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    Please fix this in the next update lads. its killing my fun. So many red and yellows on the V5 patch. I love all the updates but this latest one is nuts with an average of 7-10 reds and 60-80 yellow cards per league season.

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    Have you got "hard" tackling on?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Redknapp69 View Post
    Have you got "hard" tackling on?
    He does and so do I Redders. Kope22 is my bud that I play a lot of online games with.

    Like him I have also noticed a significant increase in cards (both yellow and red) in the latest v5 patch. I've been playing hard tackling forever, never played anything else like Kope, but this is the first patch in which we both find that you get significant more cards. And it's not just us, but all our buds we play online with have noticed it.

    We had some saves on the v4 patch and never noticed an increase so that's why we think it's something in the v5 patch.
    Go check out my YouTube channel with lots of CM 01-02 related video's!

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    more players play acting/diving/feigning injury/out of control challenges isn't it - i'd say true to life

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    Quote Originally Posted by GFRay View Post
    He does and so do I Redders. Kope22 is my bud that I play a lot of online games with.

    Like him I have also noticed a significant increase in cards (both yellow and red) in the latest v5 patch. I've been playing hard tackling forever, never played anything else like Kope, but this is the first patch in which we both find that you get significant more cards. And it's not just us, but all our buds we play online with have noticed it.

    We had some saves on the v4 patch and never noticed an increase so that's why we think it's something in the v5 patch.
    Definitely more disciplinary events! I get fined every year for not controlling my players but as my opponents have 4 or 5 goalkeepers sent off against me a season for the old 'clipped him as he went past' I am quite ok with it.....

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  13. #7
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    A look into the amount of red and yellow cards given on the V5 compared to the ODB
    Last edited by Kope22; 18-09-18 at 11:27 PM.

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    Please restore training development to level it is without the patches and make the number of yellow and red cards more realistic to modern day. You guys do so much good work on these updates and its kind of ruined as the game play is worse of than the without. the ODB gives the fewest cards and even that is more than real life modern day and yet it has increased with the updates and patches.

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    Any stats onm yellow cards from 20 years ago to now that show it was way less?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Redknapp69 View Post
    Any stats onm yellow cards from 20 years ago to now that show it was way less?
    Im not worried about 20 years ago, im more interested in the current game and making it closer to real life if its possible. you can check any records here https://www.premierleague.com/stats/...ayers/red_card if you watch the video i posted it will show the difference in the amount of red cards and yellow cards from ODB to V5.
    Last edited by Kope22; 22-09-18 at 04:59 PM.

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    Opinions I guess mate

    Donít see that many others mentioning it (based on number of people that have probably used V5) or even bothered by it

    Mr Saturn always welcomes feedback though - letís hope we get a V6 if he has the time/desire

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  20. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redknapp69 View Post
    Opinions I guess mate

    Don’t see that many others mentioning it (based on number of people that have probably used V5) or even bothered by it

    Mr Saturn always welcomes feedback though - let’s hope we get a V6 if he has the time/desire
    Its not an opinion that there a far more red cards on cm than in real life, its just a fact, it is also a fact that they have grown in number from ODB to V5. But it is an opinion that it makes game play worse along with the training being changed in the patches. Heres hoping whatever updates and patches come out next bring it up to modern day along with everything else they do, as you may not hear feedback on it on here, but on the Championship Manager 01-02 facebook group page its mentioned a lot more. Not everyone comes on here.

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    Out of fairness ive created a poll on the group page to see if people think they get more reds and yellows in the game compared to real life. So i guess we'll see what people think, as your right it maybe just me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kope22 View Post
    Out of fairness ive created a poll on the group page to see if people think they get more reds and yellows in the game compared to real life. So i guess we'll see what people think, as your right it maybe just me.
    About an hour since i posted the poll on the group page. So far 28 votes. 26 say yes they see more red cards in cm than in real life and 2 people say they are not sure. Nobody has used the "No" option. I dont say these things to be awkward or annoying, i bring them up to make the game better.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kope22 View Post
    Out of fairness ive created a poll on the group page to see if people think they get more reds and yellows in the game compared to real life. So i guess we'll see what people think, as your right it maybe just me.
    Its been 19 hrs since i made this poll on the group page. Latest finding show that 47 people agree there are more red and yellow cards on CM than in real life, 7 people don't think there are and 5 have no idea. I think this is fairly conclusive that there needs to be a change to this area of the game.

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    In fairness to Kope here, it really depends how much one plays CM to notice differences, I for one play it a lot and echo everything that has been said. The amount of reds/yellows and injuries that occur in the SV4 & SV5 is a big increase to that of a version without any patches or Saturn. The same with the development of players during training, and its fair to say, this is feedback for all those concerned, and nothing more. I've played alot over the weekend, and SV5 continued to give out more cards than I get at Xmas, (and for stupid reasons) injuries galore, and the amount of times I or we, are ChampManned by AI is just unreal. So today, I've moved to the standard 3.9.68 with the March 18 update (no patches or anything) and so far, so good, more realism. Okay, colored attributes and many other tweaks been removed, which I think are great, but would rather that for a fairer game play than anything else.

    Bear in mind, this is only my opinion, but the videos are there for all to debate, and to see the differences

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    Has there been any research as to whether it makes a difference to have tackling set to Hard or Normal? Or if the Aggression attributes of the players makes a difference? I played a save managing Kaiserslautern and got a ton of cards. Currently managing Estudiantes in Argentina and hardly seeing any cards for either team, also no Goalkeepers got sent off in a season and a half, which is completely different to my Bundesliga career.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveV View Post
    Has there been any research as to whether it makes a difference to have tackling set to Hard or Normal? Or if the Aggression attributes of the players makes a difference? I played a save managing Kaiserslautern and got a ton of cards. Currently managing Estudiantes in Argentina and hardly seeing any cards for either team, also no Goalkeepers got sent off in a season and a half, which is completely different to my Bundesliga career.
    Hi SteveV, your right if you play normal or easy tackling you will receive marginally less cards but my comparisons were done between the different databases/patches and not on the intensity of the tackling, which is the concern. Also normal and easy tackling don't allow your defenders to compete as much, so its not conducive to being consistently successful. Agreed more aggressive players do get more bookings and reds, but there are aggressive players on the ODB and they dont get as many reds as the latest updates and patches. still there are far to many compared to the ODB and also compared to real life. Fingers crossed there is a simple solution.

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    You guys have the data to play with, test solutions to bring it down if it's an issue e.g. lower dirtiness, aggression, temperament etc.

    Remember the members here and the guys that make the updates are just enthusiasts the same as yourselves

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dermotron View Post
    You guys have the data to play with, test solutions to bring it down if it's an issue e.g. lower dirtiness, aggression, temperament etc.

    Remember the members here and the guys that make the updates are just enthusiasts the same as yourselves
    The only difference is when you guys do it and release it for everyone it feels fair, when i edit stuff i feel like im cheating haha.

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    Looking at the referees stats, I think that discipline of refs is the issue. When you hover over the stat it says 20 is the best, but just like with the injury prone stat 1 is actually the best. But there are a lot that seem to be towards 20 and in this day and age 10 would be about right for the discipline of refs. It looks like a lot of refs have between 15-20 and some have a 0 which as we know has a chance to go to 20 which would be annoying. Im not sure if this is the problem and i only took a brief look in the editor at English refs. I compared the ones for the game that hand out the most cards and they either have a 0 or high discipline stat. Anyway thought i would share this.
    Last edited by Kope22; 24-09-18 at 03:22 PM.

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    I did a few quick tests of the March data on both a .68 exe and a +v5 exe.
    Code:
    One season tests of the March 2018 update on both exes, displaying the total number of yellow & red cards in the English Premier League.
    
    March 2018 .68 exe:	Yellows:	Reds:		1,145 / 39 (actual 2017/18 EPL cards)
    -------------------	-------		-----
    EPL Test 1		811		68
    EPL Test 2		753		69		Average: 776.3 / 68.3
    EPL Test 3		765		68
    
    March 2018 +v5 exe:	Yellows:	Reds:
    -------------------	-------		-----
    EPL Test 1		695		57
    EPL Test 2		787		60		Average: 768.3 / 60
    EPL Test 3		823		63
    There's no real difference between the two so the issue is a data one. Oddly there are too many red cards but not enough yellow cards compared with IRL figures today. For a solution, I'd echo what Dermo said a few posts back:

    Quote Originally Posted by Dermotron View Post
    You guys have the data to play with, test solutions to bring it down if it's an issue e.g. lower dirtiness, aggression, temperament etc.
    Play around with the referees' attributes and see if you can create referees that would give out cards to a level consistent with IRL numbers.

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  36. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dermotron View Post
    You guys have the data to play with, test solutions to bring it down if it's an issue e.g. lower dirtiness, aggression, temperament etc.
    I see there is a huge number of players in the october 2018 preview save game who have a good temperament in real life, but their temperament is set to 1. couldn't that be the cause for excessive red cards? I think the correct should be 20 as per the cm guide http://users.ox.ac.uk/~inet0039/cm01...team_guide.txt :

    "Temperament - How well the player keeps his temper. The higher the rating, the
    less likely the player will retaliate against another player, or even punch
    referees."

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  38. #24
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    Saturn's v5 patch uses the March 2018 data so it would be best to use that as testing point. Plus the data can be exported to excel to get so accurate data (refs can't be exported unfortunately)

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  40. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dermotron View Post
    Saturn's v5 patch uses the March 2018 data so it would be best to use that as testing point. Plus the data can be exported to excel to get so accurate data (refs can't be exported unfortunately)
    Thanks, I agree it would be better to test this red card issue with saturn v5. But anyway, im using cm explorer to load the october 2018 preview save game and I see almost all players in the save game have temperament of 1, even players with very good behavior in real life, I think the correct should be 20.

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