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Thread: What Is Dele Alli in 2019?

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    What Is Dele Alli in 2019?

    What is he gonna achieve in the future? is he overrated? and what is his best position and role? He certainly hasn't lived up to his initial hype and form when he broke through at Spurs 3-4 seasons ago.

    I posted it here as many people on chat think Alli is still that youngster when he is hitting mid 20s now and has struggled last few seasons to adapt to teams targeting and nullifying him.

    *just my opinion* it's why he now plays deeper for Spurs and England as the managers of both teams are disappointed with his recent goal and assist returns in the final third and players like Eriksen and Sterling have overtook him as both managers trust these players in the respective teams to produce the combinations of goals and assists far more than Alli can provide. Eriksen is far more technical, clever and cute than Alli whilst Sterling is far more dynamic and has much better movement than Alli.

    In either role as either a shadow striker or creative playmaker i'd prefer either Eriksen or Sterling over Alli. Alli for me will turn into a box to box mid over time I don't think he developed at the rate people had expected him too his decision making and technique to be the main support striker or creative force is not good enough for a top 4 team hence why he is now either a centre mid who supports attacks or is a box to box mid against strong teams.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ebfatz View Post
    Waiting for Coys.................................
    well Coys made some good arguments in support of Alli but I think it's his Spurs Bias

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    I've been having this debate for some time with my pals and at work!

    Dele is a victim of his own success, he shot on to the scene at Spurs after impressive season at MK Dons. Yes, he hasn't been as productive in the last year or two, but he has had a couple of injuries, he's not been consistently in the team for the first time in his career. Dele can play CM, but he's not defensive minded at all, can't tackle. Remember Paul Scholes though, he wasn't bad was he? Dele's best position is just behind a striker though where he doesn't have to do the defensive work. He's got to adapt at spurs, we now have some very quick wide attackers, Son and Lucas. Prior to that we had Rose and Walker running down the wing and getting balls in the box, that isn't our game any more, full backs stay back more, the wide attackers go for goal more so the chance in the box aren't as frequent. (Son and Lucas scored 20 and 15 goals last year).

    Yes he has his off days and when he is off, he is really off, but he gets important goals in big games when it matters.

    Yes I'm a Spurs fan, but I am critical of him when he is pants... Dele is only 23, he's got 3/4 years before i'd expect him to peak, like Christian Eriksen who is now turning into a top, top player - he controls games now, he didn't up until a year or two ago he went missing in big games. Compare him to Lingard? people forget that Lingard is the same age as Christian Eriksen and 4 years older than Dele!

    Dele has scored 8 goals in 25 cup games, thats 1 in 3
    Dele averages 1 goal every 3.5 games in the premier league

    At age 23 (Premier League apps only - As at April 2019)

    Dele 126 games, 42 goals, 31 assists
    Lampard 150 games, 23 goals, 19 assists
    Gerrard 136 games, 16 goals, 3 assists

    Dele's stats are double those of Frank Lampard and goals alone treble that of Gerrard (never mind the assists!) Look at the players that Lampard and Gerrard became....

    Dele gets a hard time and I think its because people are expecting too much. Dele is a country mile ahead of Lampard and Gerrard were doing at his age in terms of stats so I think we English should be both optimistic about his potential but more importantly patient with him, he's a flair player, he's going to have his off days.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveHarle View Post
    I've been having this debate for some time with my pals and at work!

    Dele is a victim of his own success, he shot on to the scene at Spurs after impressive season at MK Dons. Yes, he hasn't been as productive in the last year or two, but he has had a couple of injuries, he's not been consistently in the team for the first time in his career. Dele can play CM, but he's not defensive minded at all, can't tackle. Remember Paul Scholes though, he wasn't bad was he? Dele's best position is just behind a striker though where he doesn't have to do the defensive work. He's got to adapt at spurs, we now have some very quick wide attackers, Son and Lucas. Prior to that we had Rose and Walker running down the wing and getting balls in the box, that isn't our game any more, full backs stay back more, the wide attackers go for goal more so the chance in the box aren't as frequent. (Son and Lucas scored 20 and 15 goals last year).

    Yes he has his off days and when he is off, he is really off, but he gets important goals in big games when it matters.

    Yes I'm a Spurs fan, but I am critical of him when he is pants... Dele is only 23, he's got 3/4 years before i'd expect him to peak, like Christian Eriksen who is now turning into a top, top player - he controls games now, he didn't up until a year or two ago he went missing in big games. Compare him to Lingard? people forget that Lingard is the same age as Christian Eriksen and 4 years older than Dele!

    Dele has scored 8 goals in 25 cup games, thats 1 in 3
    Dele averages 1 goal every 3.5 games in the premier league

    At age 23 (Premier League apps only - As at April 2019)

    Dele 126 games, 42 goals, 31 assists
    Lampard 150 games, 23 goals, 19 assists
    Gerrard 136 games, 16 goals, 3 assists

    Dele's stats are double those of Frank Lampard and goals alone treble that of Gerrard (never mind the assists!) Look at the players that Lampard and Gerrard became....

    Dele gets a hard time and I think its because people are expecting too much. Dele is a country mile ahead of Lampard and Gerrard were doing at his age in terms of stats so I think we English should be both optimistic about his potential but more importantly patient with him, he's a flair player, he's going to have his off days.
    Alli was always played in more advanced positions at Mk Dons and when he first joined Spurs. Gerrard when he burst on the scene was a tough tackling youngster who could play a bit and Lampard's insane goal tallies didn't really kick in until Chelsea played him more as central mid with a lot of freedom as opposed to a more deep lying playmaker he was used as previously. I think comparing him to players like Sterling is more realistic as when Alli burst on the scene he would of been considered as an attacker not a midfielder.
    Last edited by leo37; 10-06-19 at 08:33 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by leo37 View Post
    Alli was always played in more advanced positions at Mk Dons and when he first joined Spurs. Gerrard when he burst on the seen was a tough tackling youngster who could play a bit and Lampard's insane goal tallies didn't really kick in until Chelsea played him more as central mid with a lot of freedom as opposed to a more deep lying playmaker he was used as previously. I think comparing him to players like Sterling is more realistic as when Alli burst on the scene he would of been considered as an attacker not a midfielder.
    Ok, fair argument - so i'll counter with this:

    Sterling has only scored double figures goals the last 2 seasons playing for Man City, who (aside from Liverpool this year) are miles ahead of everyone else, certainly miles ahead of the Spurs squad
    Sterling came from Liverpool's academy (appreciate he started at QPR, but he spent a good few years there) - look at the number of Liverpool players that have come out of that academy and gone on to bigger things, he was playing with top talent
    Dele came from MK Dons academy... how many players have made it in the same age group as Dele? Dele went from MK Dons straight to Spurs first team
    Sterling had played 95 games in the premier league before Dele had any so he has had more time to adapt to top level football.
    They've both played 131 PL games since Dele joined Spurs, Dele has 42 goals and Sterling 48

    Sterling is also a great (and arguably better) player, but I would say they are very similar level in terms of both ability and potential. The last 2 seasons, Sterling has been one of the best players in the PL. The last 2 seasons Dele has had to change his position 17/18 to accommodate Kyle Walker leaving and Spurs have to re-shuffle how they play and 18/19 hes had a string of hamstring injuries, he only played 25 PL games this season.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveHarle View Post
    Ok, fair argument - so i'll counter with this:

    Sterling has only scored double figures goals the last 2 seasons playing for Man City, who (aside from Liverpool this year) are miles ahead of everyone else, certainly miles ahead of the Spurs squad
    Sterling came from Liverpool's academy (appreciate he started at QPR, but he spent a good few years there) - look at the number of Liverpool players that have come out of that academy and gone on to bigger things, he was playing with top talent
    Dele came from MK Dons academy... how many players have made it in the same age group as Dele? Dele went from MK Dons straight to Spurs first team
    Sterling had played 95 games in the premier league before Dele had any so he has had more time to adapt to top level football.
    They've both played 131 PL games since Dele joined Spurs, Dele has 42 goals and Sterling 48

    Sterling is also a great (and arguably better) player, but I would say they are very similar level in terms of both ability and potential. The last 2 seasons, Sterling has been one of the best players in the PL. The last 2 seasons Dele has had to change his position 17/18 to accommodate Kyle Walker leaving and Spurs have to re-shuffle how they play and 18/19 hes had a string of hamstring injuries, he only played 25 PL games this season.
    Alli last season averaged 1 in 5 in the premier league England record too 30 odd caps only 3 goals as well but as you said injures which is understandable as he lacked momentum it's hard to compare his recent goal tallies too when he first joined the club because he has also played numerous different roles and positions but I also think this is a combination of him struggling in final third, injuries and maybe he doesn't have the temperament or drive to improve like a Sterling, Lampard or Gerrard as they all really started to kick on around this age and establish themselves as main players within their respective teams. I do think though if a player is that talented in an attacking sense you do not drop him back to cover positions or injuries even if that player is half decent there. like a 23/24 yr old Totti would not be put into a centre mid position to cover for injuries or player sales as what he provides in a attacking sense is too valuable for the team.

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    Ok. I'll bite. Just on the basis that you aren't trolling. if you are, then fair enough, but it's fun to debate anyway.

    Let's start by addressing some of points you make which simply aren't true;


    I posted it here as many people on chat think Alli is still that youngster when he is hitting mid 20s now
    He's just turned 23. 2 years is an incredibly long time to improve. Not really sure why you're labelling him as mid twenties.

    *just my opinion* it's why he now plays deeper for Spurs
    He doesn't though. Again i'm not sure where you're getting this from. He's filled in a few games in central midfield to help out with our injury ravaged squad. Dembele left for China whilst Wanyama, Winks and Dier have all had lengthy spells out injured. He's sacrificed himself for the team to do a job. Don't know why you're pretending he's been put back to accommodate somebody else.

    players like Eriksen and Sterling have overtook him
    How can Eriksen overtake a player when they both consistently play in the same lineup when both fit? again a very odd comment.

    hence why he is now either a centre mid who supports attacks or is a box to box mid against strong teams.
    No he isn't.

    Alli was always played in more advanced positions at Mk Dons
    This isn't true. It's probably best to do some research before just assuming things. Alli played in central midfield for MK Dons as a box to box player. He would often drive forward with the ball and try to control the tempo of the match. He obviously still chipped in with a bunch of goals because he was far above league one level. There was no way he could play a similar role to his position at Spurs as MK Dons played with 2 strikers a lot of the time. He had to be more disciplined.

    when Alli burst on the scene he would of been considered as an attacker not a midfielder.
    Absolutely not. Poch transformed him into a shadow striker. Spurs did not buy him for that purpose, nor did any fan think he would become that player.

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    Alli's biggest is issue in terms of progression will be the fact he is a 'made man' already financially. Achievements wise he has a ways to go in terms of winning competitions and medals. Incredibly talented but there are signs he may not be the type to push himself to maintain it (all we really have to judge that is media reports and video's with hookers )

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dermotron View Post
    Alli's biggest is issue in terms of progression will be the fact he is a 'made man' already financially. Achievements wise he has a ways to go in terms of winning competitions and medals. Incredibly talented but there are signs he may not be the type to push himself to maintain it (all we really have to judge that is media reports and video's with hookers )
    Own up, you've got one of his Leo Fortis hats though haven't you Dermo?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coys View Post
    He's just turned 23. 2 years is an incredibly long time to improve. Not really sure why you're labelling him as mid twenties.
    this is a very important point. These are some Ballon d'Or 1st/2nd/3rd or potential winners other than Messi/CR or have had massive transfer values

    Modric at 23, just joined Spurs
    van Dijk at 23, playing for Celtic
    Bale at 23, just had his best season for Spurs before that mega season that got him the move to RM
    Xavi at 23, not guaranteed starter for Barca
    Griezemann at 23, playing for Sociedad
    Firmino at 23, playing for Hoffenheim
    Mane at 23, playing for Southampton
    Kante at 23, playing for Caen
    Kroos at 23, out on loan at Leverkusen
    Lacazette at 23, managed 3 goals in 31 league games for Lyon

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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveHarle View Post
    Own up, you've got one of his Leo Fortis hats though haven't you Dermo?
    Actually had to Google that

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    Ok. I'll bite. Just on the basis that you aren't trolling. if you are, then fair enough, but it's fun to debate anyway. NO NOT TROLLING JUST GIVING AN OPINION

    Let's start by addressing some of points you make which simply aren't true;


    I posted it here as many people on chat think Alli is still that youngster when he is hitting mid 20s now
    He's just turned 23. 2 years is an incredibly long time to improve. Not really sure why you're labelling him as mid twenties. 23.2 IS CLOSER TO 25 THAN 20

    *just my opinion* it's why he now plays deeper for Spurs
    He doesn't though. Again i'm not sure where you're getting this from. He's filled in a few games in central midfield to help out with our injury ravaged squad. Dembele left for China whilst Wanyama, Winks and Dier have all had lengthy spells out injured. He's sacrificed himself for the team to do a job. Don't know why you're pretending he's been put back to accommodate somebody else.

    POCH PREFERS ERIKSEN IN THE HOLE THAN ALI

    players like Eriksen and Sterling have overtook him
    How can Eriksen overtake a player when they both consistently play in the same lineup when both fit? again a very odd comment.

    IF YOU LOOK AT EITHER ENGLAND OR SPURS THE WAY EITHER TEAM ARE SETUP, EVERYTHING GOES THROUGH ERIKSEN NOW AND ENGLAND ARE SETUP TO GET THE BEST OUT OF STERLING. ALII COMPARED TO 3 YEARS AGO IS NOT CONSIDERED A KEY PLAYER IN EITHER TEAM IN A ATTACKING OR CREATIVE SENSE ANYWAY

    hence why he is now either a centre mid who supports attacks or is a box to box mid against strong teams.
    No he isn't.

    HE WAS PRACTICALLY A BOG STANDARD MIDFIELDER LAST SEASON HE DID JUST AS MUCH DEFENDING AS ATTACKING

    Alli was always played in more advanced positions at Mk Dons
    This isn't true. It's probably best to do some research before just assuming things. Alli played in central midfield for MK Dons as a box to box player. He would often drive forward with the ball and try to control the tempo of the match. He obviously still chipped in with a bunch of goals because he was far above league one level. There was no way he could play a similar role to his position at Spurs as MK Dons played with 2 strikers a lot of the time. He had to be more disciplined.

    MK DONS HE WAS PLAYING FAR MORE ADVANCED THAN HE HAS PLAYED FOR TOTTENHAM THIS SEASON HE WAS AN ATTACKING MID AT MK DONS

    when Alli burst on the scene he would of been considered as an attacker not a midfielder.
    Absolutely not. Poch transformed him into a shadow striker. Spurs did not buy him for that purpose, nor did any fan think he would become that player.

    HE HAD AN EXCELLENT GOAL RECORD AND GREAT START TO HIS CAREER AT BOTH SPURS AND MK DONS AS AN ATTACKING MID YOU WOULD OF ASSUMED BY NOW HE WOULD OF ADDED MORE TO HIS GAME CONSIDERING THE INCREDIBLE POTENTIAL HE SHOWED AT THE TIME

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    Yeah ok - this is a lost cause.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dermotron View Post
    this is a very important point. These are some Ballon d'Or 1st/2nd/3rd or potential winners other than Messi/CR or have had massive transfer values

    Modric at 23, just joined Spurs
    van Dijk at 23, playing for Celtic
    Bale at 23, just had his best season for Spurs before that mega season that got him the move to RM
    Xavi at 23, not guaranteed starter for Barca
    Griezemann at 23, playing for Sociedad
    Firmino at 23, playing for Hoffenheim
    Mane at 23, playing for Southampton
    Kante at 23, playing for Caen
    Kroos at 23, out on loan at Leverkusen
    Lacazette at 23, managed 3 goals in 31 league games for Lyon
    I don't think the money arguement comes into it most young players now at academies are on insane wages. You don't even need to be a first team regular or even have a league appearance to be very rich by the time you turn 20

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    Quote Originally Posted by leo37 View Post
    Let's start by addressing some of points you make which simply aren't true;

    *just my opinion* it's why he now plays deeper for Spurs
    He doesn't though. Again i'm not sure where you're getting this from. He's filled in a few games in central midfield to help out with our injury ravaged squad. Dembele left for China whilst Wanyama, Winks and Dier have all had lengthy spells out injured. He's sacrificed himself for the team to do a job. Don't know why you're pretending he's been put back to accommodate somebody else.

    POCH PREFERS ERIKSEN IN THE HOLE THAN ALI
    Last 5 Spurs games which Alli and Eriksen started and there was a player in the hole or a #10

    http://www.football-lineups.com/lineup/678653/
    http://www.football-lineups.com/lineup/675765/
    http://www.football-lineups.com/lineup/666018/
    http://www.football-lineups.com/lineup/677109/
    http://www.football-lineups.com/lineup/670885/

    Alli 3 Eriksen 0

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    In my Millwall Brexit Challenge game................this cropped up

    Quite apt for this season

    woodland bank locations

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    most of those line ups on stat sites are quite loose and will vary but anyway most important game of spurs history and Eriksen was the main attacking mid not Alli

    Last edited by leo37; 10-06-19 at 11:21 PM.

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    Sigh.

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    I was glad to see this pointless discussion had left the chatbox only to see it now has it's own thread...
    Go check out my YouTube channel with lots of CM 01-02 related video's!

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    the more I read from leo, it sounds like jacob 2.0

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    Quote Originally Posted by GFRay View Post
    I was glad to see this pointless discussion had left the chatbox only to see it now has it's own thread...
    what's pointless about it? I think Alli is an interesting player to discuss

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    Quote Originally Posted by evesham View Post
    the more I read from leo, it sounds like jacob 2.0
    why does everyone say i'm someone called jacob or some portuguese dude just because I have a different opinion to the majority?

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    What Portuguese guy?

    Is Alli gonna play behind Kane next year as support striker all things being equal?

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    I personally think he is an English Tim Cahill. Hes a goalscoring attacking mid, and not a lot else.

    I see him give the ball away too much, he lacks a burst of speed too.

    But... he has a huge talent for arriving in the box at the right time. Somebody mentioned they dont cross as much as previously, because they play pace on the wings, two guys that like to cut in with Son and Lucas.

    Id be worried with the drop off, 18, 9, 5 (prem goals last 3 seasons), because it doesnt show a guy that is improving. Nowadays players are peaking earlier than 27, especially guys who have played as much as him.

    I think next season is a big one for him, because another one like this and he is no longer a guaranteed start.

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