Reverse Grid

[Kingsley]

As well as football, I am a big motor sports fan and I'm lucky enough to have been to 5 British GP and one Italian, however I also love going to the smaller national and club level events. I did, back in the 1990's have a go at it myself, but wasn't good/lucky enough to get sponsorship or rich enough to self fund. May be one day I'll enter for one of the old guy series.

One feature which is quite common in the lesser categories of motor sport is a “Reverse Grid”, often as an end of season fun event, where the cars line up on the grid in reverse championship order. Sometimes it is combined with an elimination race where every other lap the last car is sent to the pits. It makes for some dramatic overtaking and exciting racing.

I was wondering what would happen if we tried the same thing with the football leagues, so I've done some team swapping so that the Premier League teams and National North teams are swapped, Championship and National League teams are swapped and League One and League Two teams are swapped to create a sort of reverse grid. There are not the same number of teams in each league, so I have based the moves on 2018/19 finishing places. So Norwich and Sheffield Utd join the Premier teams in National North.

I won't be managing any of the teams my self, but watching to see how it develops. I have selected all nations to keep transfers and European competitions realistic and I will be reporting at the end of each season on the state of the various tournaments. On Europe, I have replaced the current English qualifiers with non-league sides so that nobody has an unfair advantage.

How quickly can the big boys to get back to the Premier League ?
Can they hold onto their top players while playing in the lower leagues ?
How will the smaller sides like Forest Green and Port Vale deal with their massive Premier League income (if they survive the first season) ?
Who will be the first to be eliminated from National North ?
Will they bounce back ?
Can Leamington win the Premier League here before it happens in Mark's story ?

To start the ball rolling, here are the league line ups for year 1.

[riise]

Interesting idea, I'll be dropping in for sure

[samsami]

Very interesting!

But I imagine that the three teams promoted from National North will have it easy and be promoted every year until they are back in the Premier League and it will be a three horse race between them then?

[Redknapp69]

Brilliant stuff - will be keeping an eye on this intersting concept

[AMC]

Get in, Southport finally in the Prem

What have you done with the finances for the clubs? I imagine if all untouched that all the Prem players playing in the Conference North will be bought from teams from abroad, be interesting what fees they get for them as well.

[Kingsley]

Very interesting!

But I imagine that the three teams promoted from National North will have it easy and be promoted every year until they are back in the Premier League and it will be a three horse race between them then?

I expect that for the first year, but only 2 promotted from National to League Two, so one of them will miss out and be joined by 3 more who will be looking for the 2 places. There is a log jam there.
That is also assuming that they can keep top squads together without the big TV money and prize money. And who will they attract if not in Europe

Get in, Southport finally in the Prem

What have you done with the finances for the clubs? I imagine if all untouched that all the Prem players playing in the Conference North will be bought from teams from abroad, be interesting what fees they get for them as well.

Southport Didn't even notice that.
I've not touched any of the finances

[AMC]

Finances could be interesting, they may still get the attendances (for how long?) but no big TV money or prize money and squads with massive wages, which will eventually bleed them dry.

[James_y]

Very interested to see how this goes. The big boys that don't get promoted first season may start to struggle and I imagine some teams will be stuck down there for a very long time

[ZanSnake]

Interesting...

[samsami]

I expect that for the first year, but only 2 promoted from National to League Two, so one of them will miss out and be joined by 3 more who will be looking for the 2 places. There is a log jam there.
That is also assuming that they can keep top squads together without the big TV money and prize money. And who will they attract if not in Europe.

Yes the log jam will make it interesting

Also, impatient players leaving. There might be a mass exodus with all of the big name players in lower leagues, actually. They may all leave the UK and sign with European teams - or Chinese teams!!

Will you post a season at a time? Or half a season or so?

[Effiong unmarked!]

Will the club reputations crash or just gradually decline? They might hold on to most of their players for a while, especially those who are in Europe. Perhaps the players' reputations will fall as fast as the clubs' reputations, in which case they might hold on to the players, at least until Economic factors kick in. The crowd sizes might be interesting too, as the big clubs might still draw decent attendances despite being in the sixth tier. It's a very interesting idea and I'm looking forward to seeing how this works out.

[Kingsley]

Thanks to all for the feedback. Like everyone I have no idea what is going to happen. The plan is to give an update at the end of each season and I’ll certainly do that for the first year, but if there is demand for more whilst updates I’ll try to accommodate

[samsami]

It's your story, but I'd be very interested in a midseason update to find out which big name players leave their clubs.

And also whether any big name players will join any of the current Premier League clubs.

[Kingsley]

As requested, here are the major transfers in England for the first half season. I'm going to hold back on league tables, but there are a couple of forum members who should consider putting some champagne on ice.



Initial reaction looks like a bit of an exodus has started from the big clubs, however I don't normally look at this, so I'm not sure what is “normal” for the first season.

At first glance, Chelsea (Hazard, Azpillicueta, Pedro and Emerson) and United (Lukaku, Romero, Bailly and Rojo) look to be the big losers. Liverpool also lost 4, but arguably not so influential

Arsenal spending £14.5m on Joshua King bucks the trend. Presumably a replacement for Lacazette. Not surprisingly the new Premier League clubs don't have any money to spend yet.

Happy to take any questions.

[Effiong unmarked!]

What do the average attendances look like in the National League North, please? Are the crowds what you would expect in that division, or what you would expect for those clubs, or somewhere in the middle?

[AMC]

I actually thought more would move on than that, and like you say Liverpool haven't lost anyone that important, in fact IRL Matip would be the only one really missed and I wouldn't have said that 6 months ago until he got a run in the side.

[James_y]

It’s interesting because none of the top division sides have money to spend until tv rights next season help. Whoever wins the premeditated league could have a chance to get bigger quicker

[Effiong unmarked!]

It averages out at not much more than 2 decent players per club leaving in the first half of the season, which doesn't seem like many. I suppose the main thing is that few top players are arriving at the big clubs at the back of the grid.

[Kingsley]

What do the average attendances look like in the National League North, please? Are the crowds what you would expect in that division, or what you would expect for those teams, or somewhere in the middle?

Down, and in some cases substantially. In league games

Highest attendance was Utd v City .... 39,593
Lowest attendance was Sheff Utd v Bournemouth ... 4,745

Slightly unbelievable, highest average attendance was Brighton ... 30,223. (I guess the game recognises that they don't have the glory hunter support !)

Of the big 6, average attendances (including cup games) were

Arsenal ... 28,738
Chelsea ... 19,673
City ... 27,339
Liverpool ... 22,121
Spurs ... 32,702
Utd ... 30,714

In the Premier League, York v Chester attracted 8,1777

[James_y]

Going to be some tiny premier league stadiums. Wonder how many get summer expansions

[AMC]

Don't you need to have a minimum of 10 or 12k to get promoted into the Prem League? That could play a part too, dunno if the game will ignore teams already in the Premiership with grounds less than that or they will make them expand it in game.

[Kingsley]

Don't you need to have a minimum of 10 or 12k to get promoted into the Prem League? That could play a part too, dunno if the game will ignore teams already in the Premiership with grounds less than that or they will make them expand it in game.

That is a good point. At the moment York is the biggest at 9,916. I guess any expansion would be over the summer, so I'll check before the start of the second season.

[Effiong unmarked!]

Those crowds are very interesting. I wonder how long and steep the fall will be, and whether Brighton can keep it going. I suppose one of the clubs at the back of the grid will win the FA Cup, and being in Europe next season might give them an advantage going forward as their rep might not crash as quickly as the clubs around them.

[Kingsley]

That would be a big advantage for someone as they could easily go on to win the Europa League. To do it, they would need to be lucky in the early FA Cup qualifying rounds. We could easily see a Manchester or North London derby as early as that.

[samsami]

Perhaps this was only the beginning. The dikes might break at the end of the season and huge numbers of players might leave.
Then again, perhaps the dikes might hold.
The summer transfer window will be interesting!