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Thread: Non-League promotions

  1. #1

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    Non-League promotions

    Hello all,

    I play the original .60 ODB version of the game.
    I've noticed that when the AI promotes teams from non-league it seems to select teams from the first part of the alphabet. Four seasons into my German game, all teams promoted into Regionals have been teams who are alphabetically listed from A-G (8 teams a season = 32 teams promoted in 4 seasons. Too much to be a coincidence). I've also noticed the same thing happening in England when promoted to Conference. Eg, Aldershot, Bath City & Blyth promoted.
    Is this a bug, is it fixable?
    Thanks

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    Have all the clubs got the same reputation? I've noticed on our Data Updates the bigger reputation clubs get picked more often for promotion

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    No, varies. Some are quite low, like Ditzengen, who have rep of 3. Anyone else noticing this alphabetical bias in their game? The English example is still too early to state confidently, but the German example is four seasons in, 32 teams and not one starting with H onwards. Bizzare.
    Last edited by Is Homesick; 06-11-19 at 10:07 AM. Reason: ,

  4. #4

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    Certainly not in my game (Saturn patch and 60+ years in)
    Recently managed Zonguldak, promoted in Croatia.
    Whitehill Welfare, Wick Academy and Threave Rovers (Scotland) plus Yate, Truro, Worthing and Wealdstone (England) are all doing well
    Spain, Germany, Italy and France all have promoted teams in the last 1/4 of the alphabet.
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    I confirm. It happened all the time when I played unpatched CM. For example, if I remember well, no french non-league team could play the first round of French Cup if their name started with a letter after... F maybe ? But I played once with newly promoted Rodez in a save where only France was loaded (if it can make a difference, I usually load max database).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sure View Post
    I confirm. It happened all the time when I played unpatched CM. For example, if I remember well, no french non-league team could play the first round of French Cup if their name started with a letter after... F maybe ? But I played once with newly promoted Rodez in a save where only France was loaded (if it can make a difference, I usually load max database).
    Ok, thanks. So its a .60 problem then and the other versions dont have the issue. If thats the case where can I find the .65 or .68 (i think) patches? I checked the patches subsection but failed to see it? Also, is there a list of changes available to look at?
    Thanks to all, much appreciated.

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    Check in the Downloads toolbar (top left) Official SI Games Patches

    https://champman0102.co.uk/downloads.php?do=cat&id=14
    The artist formally known as The Eejit

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingsley View Post
    Check in the Downloads toolbar (top left) Official SI Games Patches

    https://champman0102.co.uk/downloads.php?do=cat&id=14
    Excellent, thanks.

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    Before you do that, if you want to play on .60, I want to look at the data. When I try to run cmdbsort on the database it crashes with an error in regards a "negative staff in the file". Shouldn't be a big fix but once it is fixed, cmdbsort should in theory resolve the promotion issues
    Last edited by Dermotron; 07-11-19 at 10:33 AM.

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    Fucking hell


    No idea how .60 even loads at times



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    All these clubs don't get to play in Europe . . .


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    Here's the data if anyone is interested in testing. I've done nothing but validate the data, run cmdbsort and fix the euro.cfg teams.

    https://www.sendspace.com/file/a762k8
    Last edited by Dermotron; 07-11-19 at 11:52 AM.

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  14. #13

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    You have not included the euro.cfg in the rar

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    Indeed, I've refreshed the link

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    Just ran a quick test with the 3.9.60 database. The following teams were promoted:

    ENGLAND
    Aldershot, Blyth, Halesowen

    FRANCE
    Dunkerque, Gazélec, Paris FC, Pontivy, Red Star 93, Rodez

    GERMANY
    Altona 93, Augsburg, Baunatal, Dortmund (A), EFC Stahl, Einbeck, Emden, FSV Frankfurt

    SPAIN
    At. Baleares, Ávila, Avilés, Baskonia, Béjar Ind., Constancia, Durango, Endesa Andorra, Endesa As Pontes, Figueruelas, Fuenlabrada, Grabasa, Izarra, Langreo, Lealtad, Leganes B, Lorca, Manacor

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  19. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Is Homesick View Post
    is there a list of changes available to look at?
    Official Changelog from .60 to .68:

    New to version 3.9.68
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    * West Ham duplicate strikers bug fixed
    * Finnish Premier Division teams corrected
    * Games not running in all languages fixed
    * ARSE command problem fixed
    * England + English Conference + Scotland problem fixed
    * Australian NSL: Number of teams entered to comp fixed, number of foreign players allowed bug fixed
    * Player surnames not appearing on Team of the week screen fixed
    * Fixed problem with Polish First Division relegations
    * Fixed problem with Argentine Second Division
    * [Korean] Extended length of Media strings
    * [Korean] Updated Korean player and team data


    New to version 3.9.67
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    * Added South Korean league to game
    * Updated player and team data to 02/03 (please note the season start date hasnt changed!
    * Added new version of official SI editor (v1.2.0). Please check the WhatsNew.txt in the editor directory

    New to version 3.9.65 (Save game compatible)
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    * Lessened chance of free-kicks hitting walls slightly
    * Increased Protection of players at big clubs slightly
    * New command line option 'nomemcheck' to disable memory safety checks
    * Fixed rare problem with club records
    * Changed from over-length copy-protection to a system that will work on all CD-ROM systems
    * Repair news corruption which can happen in the original release
    * Made it less likely that a player with a lower match rating than another player will get MoM
    * Made it less likely for non-league clubs to get rescued when bankrupt
    * Made Man Of Match display on match screen compatible with COLOURBLIND flag
    * Protected against unlikely stadium expansions (most notably in Brazil)
    * Made interest payments when seriously in debt more severe
    * Made aging, greedy players a bit less likely to accept moves if they're well paid in their current contract.
    * Made 'future' screen show Jaded players information correctly
    * Second leg of Asian Super Cup is now 14 days after first leg
    * Clubs from Pakistan now play in East section of Asian club competitions

    New to version 3.9.62 (save game compatible)
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    * Compensation is now paid to players former club for non Bosman 2 transfers
    * Fixed potential crash when reminders are generated for player notes
    * Brazilian National First and Second divisions now use playoff stage for history and not league table
    * Fixed problem with Libertadores Cup picking wrong Brazilian teams sometimes
    * Three regional Brazilian championships now award prize money if their playoff match is not needed.

  20. #17
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    There's also something about team ID numbers..... most teams are sorted alphabetically and given corresponding numbers... but as teams have been edited over the years, you might have some that have a low number but that start with a letter that comes later in the alphabet. I know when using dummy teams to fill in divisions where I've reduced the number of teams, I have to be careful and fill it with teams that have really high ID numbers so they show up at the bottom of the table and get hidden by my exe edits

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dermotron View Post
    Before you do that, if you want to play on .60, I want to look at the data. When I try to run cmdbsort on the database it crashes with an error in regards a "negative staff in the file". Shouldn't be a big fix but once it is fixed, cmdbsort should in theory resolve the promotion issues
    So do you want me to upload my original index file db for you to look at?


    Quote Originally Posted by Dermotron View Post
    All these clubs don't get to play in Europe . . .

    Interesting because I am 100% certain I saw olympiakos nicosia in a european qualifying round just the other day.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Is Homesick View Post
    So do you want me to upload my original index file db for you to look at?
    No it's fine

    Quote Originally Posted by Is Homesick View Post
    Interesting because I am 100% certain I saw olympiakos nicosia in a european qualifying round just the other day.
    If the club can't be found, the club with the highest rep not in a Euro competition gets selected. That's why we sometimes add Wrexham and Merthyr Tydfil to the euro.cfg in Data Updates. On normal DB size it's a little more random, on min DB it can be completely random.



    Anyhow, I have just finished a small test on this. I set 6 clubs to rep 8, 5 of them got promoted. Cherbourg spoiled it being 6/6 but they were tied with 7 other clubs with rep 5. Interestingly they were the first alphabetically with rep 5. The rep seems to be a similar pattern to Alan's test as Paris FC and Red Star 93 are both 2 of the highest without editing. (I only ran this for France).


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    Quote Originally Posted by Dermotron View Post
    No it's fine



    If the club can't be found, the club with the highest rep not in a Euro competition gets selected. That's why we sometimes add Wrexham and Merthyr Tydfil to the euro.cfg in Data Updates. On normal DB size it's a little more random, on min DB it can be completely random.



    Anyhow, I have just finished a small test on this. I set 6 clubs to rep 8, 5 of them got promoted. Cherbourg spoiled it being 6/6 but they were tied with 7 other clubs with rep 5. Interestingly they were the first alphabetically with rep 5. The rep seems to be a similar pattern to Alan's test as Paris FC and Red Star 93 are both 2 of the highest without editing. (I only ran this for France).

    In Alan's test Germany and Spain are the clearest examples of this 'bias'. Nothing after F and nothing after M. And some low reps there too.

    Anyway, these technical discussions are over my head slightly. What do you propose I do if I really want this to disappear? Should I dl the file you put up earlier in this thread or shall I go the .68 version?

    Thanks
    Last edited by Is Homesick; 08-11-19 at 01:35 AM.

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    All depends on whether it bothers you enough that it's affecting your enjoyment of the game.

    Looking at the changes spec moving to v3.9.68 doesn't really change this happening.



    On a side note I've made a similar change in Spain just to have look. Just awaiting the results.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Craig Forrest View Post
    There's also something about team ID numbers..... most teams are sorted alphabetically and given corresponding numbers... but as teams have been edited over the years, you might have some that have a low number but that start with a letter that comes later in the alphabet. I know when using dummy teams to fill in divisions where I've reduced the number of teams, I have to be careful and fill it with teams that have really high ID numbers so they show up at the bottom of the table and get hidden by my exe edits
    I think that the ID numbers has probably more to do with it. In the Saturn patch and latest DB which I have been using and reported the teams in the bottom quarter of the alphabet, the clubs are certainly not sorted alphabetically and I guess the team ID's are more random It maybe that these clubs have low IDs, but high in the alphabet

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Dermotron View Post
    All depends on whether it bothers you enough that it's affecting your enjoyment of the game.

    Looking at the changes spec moving to v3.9.68 doesn't really change this happening.



    On a side note I've made a similar change in Spain just to have look. Just awaiting the results.
    It makes a difference for those doing an Alphabet game and are stuck near the end on an X, Y or Z !
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  27. #23
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    Ran a similar test in Spain and only a few clubs from "L" showed but none later. Tried to find some correlation with clubs / cities having co-ordinates as Spain 2B is in theory regional (which might also explain Germany) but not really got the interest to dig that deep into it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dermotron View Post
    Ran a similar test in Spain and only a few clubs from "L" showed but none later. Tried to find some correlation with clubs / cities having co-ordinates as Spain 2B is in theory regional (which might also explain Germany) but not really got the interest to dig that deep into it.
    Ran it again after deleting some non-Spanish clubs and there are more "L" clubs but no letters after that. I'd say CF's assessment is along the right lines. The groups do get re-sorted based on geographical location though so it's likely why some are repeats (8 of Alan's list are in the promoted list from the test I've just ran). Italian Serie C does the same in terms of rebalancing the groups based on location.

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