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Thread: Help me understand how Tapani, nick co or other patches effect what tactics are used by AI managers

  1. #1

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    Help me understand how Tapani, nick co or other patches effect what tactics are used by AI managers

    Ok so it had been a while since I started a fresh new save on cm0102 so last night I did a fresh install patched it to .68 then applied nick co force load all players and set the start date to 2001.

    I managed Dortmund a team I used to manage a lot on the base game and started noticing my goal return drying up around October time plus the increase of injuries per game at least one of my players was getting injured per and sometimes 2 or more (these injuries would be niggly ones out for 3 days or a week etc nothing serious or long term) So played through until Feb with not much of an improvement in scoring goals and certainly not to the rate I would of been used to on the base game with a 5 - 3 - 2 attacking wingback formation I had always used with Dortmund with great success

    So out of curiosity i just didn't tinker with my tactics and just whizzed through games just to see what tactics the ai managers where implementing against me

    The Tactics used by ai managers where mainly these 4

    4-1-3-2 with all the midfield arrows pushed up and fullback arrows pushed up pressing, offside trap, hard tackling and attacking mentality all ticked
    4-4-2 with 3 of the 4 midfield arrows set to the DMC position which will completely overload them defensively plus the added boost of defensive mentality with men behind ball ticked.
    4-5-1 with either the left or right mid arrow moving up to the AMC slot this would either be normal or attacking mentality short and pressing
    5-3-2 with another defensive overload of many arrows dragged back from midfield defensive mentality, hard tackling and counter attack with men behind ball

    My question is when applying nick co patch does this automatically tapini'fy' the new load game and if so does this increase the variation of difficulty of the game where the ai managers use much stronger tactics? It certainly felt that way I had previously played around with harder ai tactics packs from the forums before and found it equally as tough to just playing this save yesterday without a harder ai tactics pack added manually.

    Perhaps it had been so long since I played a fresh new load game that It is something I will have to adapt to if the difficulty or variation of ai managers has improved greatly and if that is the case would plug and play tactics in theory be something of the past? Or at least use of regular changes of mentalities, arrows and team and player instructions would be needed to try and keep an edge over ai teams

    I don't see it as a good or bad thing It just made me realise the game has certainly changed alot or perhaps i'm only just realising the changes first hand as it has been so long since I used up to date patches and tools on a new game.

    And does anyone else find the general difficulty level tougher now ? Or perhaps i'm looking into this too much and maybe that 5=3=2 formation that was insanely good for me on the base game or standard 0.68 is just redundant now on tapani or with nick co applied or if nick co automitcally updates it to tapani to begin with and if so does this drastically effect ai use of tactics?

    p.s I only use non wib wob tactics

  2. #2

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    No. My patcher only changes the things you specify. The patcher doesn't touch AI tactics or anything to do with them.

    The Data Updates can/do affect the tactics available and used. Maybe wipe your directory and install from scratch if you want to ensure you are getting the original experience.

    And don't use old versions of the patcher - new versions don't support "force load all players" as that can cause people issues/crashes down the line.

  3. #3

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    Ok thanks for reply

    I have a long term save using your patcher from 9 months ago on a long term save (17 seasons in) and runs really well on ''force load all players'' with every league loaded could this save experience issues down the line you reckon? infact its the best long term save i've had on cm0102 and the goals haven't dried up and it's a perfect balance in future seasons with teams winning leagues averaging between 2-2.5 goals per game. Some leagues goals are a little drier and some teams have every defender with insanely high attributes for positioning and marking but i think the sheer volume of players and freak strikers produced evens out the goals scored and conceded ratio just from the filtering of freaks making it too the big clubs.

    I'm reinstalling everything and loading a new game being dortmund again and using the latest patcher to see if these ai tactics appear literally every team was overloading defensively or playing very strong offensive tactics i don't mind the challenge just felt like the difficulty level was cranked up is all and was curious if anyone else felt the same or this is ''normal'' as i hadn't loaded up a new game for a while usually play with saves that had been started over 9-10 months ago
    Last edited by leo37; 05-04-20 at 12:02 AM.

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by leo37 View Post
    Ok thanks for reply

    I have a long term save using your patcher from 9 months ago on a long term save (17 seasons in) and runs really well on ''force load all players'' with every league loaded could this save experience issues down the line you reckon? infact its the best long term save i've had on cm0102 and the goals haven't dried up and it's a perfect balance in future seasons with teams winning leagues averaging between 2-2.5 goals per game. Some leagues goals are a little drier and some teams have every defender with insanely high attributes for positioning and marking but i think the sheer volume of players and freak strikers produced evens out the goals scored and conceded ratio just from the filtering of freaks making it too the big clubs.

    I'm reinstalling everything and loading a new game being dortmund again and using the latest patcher to see if these ai tactics appear literally every team was overloading defensively or playing very strong offensive tactics i don't mind the challenge just felt like the difficulty level was cranked up is all and was curious if anyone else felt the same or this is ''normal'' as i hadn't loaded up a new game for a while usually play with saves that had been started over 9-10 months ago
    Is this with an updated database or original 3.9.68?

  5. #5

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    3.9.68 but i was use to playing the game patched for ages previously when i played a lot over a year ago i could romp leagues with dortmund and milan before butnow i find it tougher not saying it a bad thing just feels something is different and more challenging

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    runs really well on ''force load all players'' with every league loaded could this save experience issues down the line you reckon?
    Sorry Leo, I was being an idiot, no that's fine - I was thinking of that patch alongside the patch that used to be there that let you search for all players in game. With those both combined you'd get issues - so I removed the latter patch rather than the former.

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick+Co View Post
    Sorry Leo, I was being an idiot, no that's fine - I was thinking of that patch alongside the patch that used to be there that let you search for all players in game. With those both combined you'd get issues - so I removed the latter patch rather than the former.
    It's fine I just wasn't sure if applying your patcher would automatically change how the ai used tactics is all

    I run the game again same formation and same instructions and at around the same time of season the ai adpated to using defensively overloading tactics again up until early Novemeber the tactics the ai where using seem to be purposely to stop Dede cutting in from a left wing back position into the Amc slot where Rosicky was set as a free role and these players had insane ratings goals and assists up until the ai teams all start using the defensive overloading tactics

    The formation I used was 5-3-2 attacking direct style with koller as the right striker and Evanilson arrow going up the right wing as conventional wingback and on other flank dede cutting in and Amoroso arrow sent out wide to play as a striker\winger role.

    So to combat this the ai was dragging 3 out of 4 midfielders back with arrows slightly right of centre to there DMC slot obviously to completely shut down Rosicky and Dede who up till then had been running riot in the league. I do not know if this was coincidence or if the ai does it knowing you as the user is overloading that area.

  8. #8

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    That tactic is certainly an ODB tactic / preset. We removed most of the made looking asynchronous tactics in the Data Updates.

    I think it's this "beauty" you are referring to



  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by leo37 View Post
    Ok so it had been a while since I started a fresh new save on cm0102 so last night I did a fresh install patched it to .68 then applied nick co force load all players and set the start date to 2001.

    I managed Dortmund a team I used to manage a lot on the base game and started noticing my goal return drying up around October time plus the increase of injuries per game at least one of my players was getting injured per and sometimes 2 or more (these injuries would be niggly ones out for 3 days or a week etc nothing serious or long term) So played through until Feb with not much of an improvement in scoring goals and certainly not to the rate I would of been used to on the base game with a 5 - 3 - 2 attacking wingback formation I had always used with Dortmund with great success

    So out of curiosity i just didn't tinker with my tactics and just whizzed through games just to see what tactics the ai managers where implementing against me

    The Tactics used by ai managers where mainly these 4

    4-1-3-2 with all the midfield arrows pushed up and fullback arrows pushed up pressing, offside trap, hard tackling and attacking mentality all ticked
    4-4-2 with 3 of the 4 midfield arrows set to the DMC position which will completely overload them defensively plus the added boost of defensive mentality with men behind ball ticked.
    4-5-1 with either the left or right mid arrow moving up to the AMC slot this would either be normal or attacking mentality short and pressing
    5-3-2 with another defensive overload of many arrows dragged back from midfield defensive mentality, hard tackling and counter attack with men behind ball

    My question is when applying nick co patch does this automatically tapini'fy' the new load game and if so does this increase the variation of difficulty of the game where the ai managers use much stronger tactics? It certainly felt that way I had previously played around with harder ai tactics packs from the forums before and found it equally as tough to just playing this save yesterday without a harder ai tactics pack added manually.

    Perhaps it had been so long since I played a fresh new load game that It is something I will have to adapt to if the difficulty or variation of ai managers has improved greatly and if that is the case would plug and play tactics in theory be something of the past? Or at least use of regular changes of mentalities, arrows and team and player instructions would be needed to try and keep an edge over ai teams

    I don't see it as a good or bad thing It just made me realise the game has certainly changed alot or perhaps i'm only just realising the changes first hand as it has been so long since I used up to date patches and tools on a new game.

    And does anyone else find the general difficulty level tougher now ? Or perhaps i'm looking into this too much and maybe that 5=3=2 formation that was insanely good for me on the base game or standard 0.68 is just redundant now on tapani or with nick co applied or if nick co automitcally updates it to tapani to begin with and if so does this drastically effect ai use of tactics?

    p.s I only use non wib wob tactics
    i agree i use dominate but lately i'm finding it harder to get a winning team together also the tactic I've been using since the original 01-02 will kill now i'm lucky if i finish 7th with any top team. Not a bad thing just would like to be able to go back t the original tactics maybe as you said the AI in the update has improved.

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  11. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dermotron View Post
    That tactic is certainly an ODB tactic / preset. We removed most of the made looking asynchronous tactics in the Data Updates.

    I think it's this "beauty" you are referring to


    yes that one and a 4 4 2 with arrows dragged back as well

  12. #11

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    Its definitely harder. I have tried ODB recently, with tapani patch 2.17 and been able to back to back to back win CL with Derry City!!! Then unfortunately the game crashed so I tried Nick“s patch and March 2020 data update and I am not even able to with the league. And I tried all the iodines, scemoka and similar tactics. Nothing worked.
    Days where you could conquer the world with Rushden and Diamonds are gone.

  13. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bozelaux View Post
    I have tried ODB recently, with tapani patch 2.17
    Quote Originally Posted by Bozelaux View Post
    II tried Nick“s patch and March 2020.
    As Nick says above, it is nothing to do with patches. Look carefully at the quotes above, and you may notice there are two variables. If it isn't the patch then it is...

  14. #13

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    Well... with ODB the plug and play works fine, mostly. But with data updates, its significantly harder and unless you manage top-tier clubs, you can“t win match-to-match all the time. I agree with that.

  15. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bozelaux View Post
    Well... with ODB the plug and play works fine, mostly. But with data updates, its significantly harder and unless you manage top-tier clubs, you canĀ“t win match-to-match all the time. I agree with that.
    The updates are meant to make the game more realistic, so yes, it is very very hard to take a lower league team and guide them to Champions League glory now. There are fewer hidden gems in the game, (mostly lurking in South America) and the AI teams seem to know about most of them anyway before the human manager discovers them. In one sense the football world in the updates looks more like the real football world and you can play out a real management career, starting at a lower level and working your way up the ladder as you gain success. On the other hand, you can't Manage a team like Wycombe for a decade and expect to be challenging for major honours, if that's what you want.

  16. #15

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    Is it even possible to remove the 'harder ai tactics' while using the march 2020 data update including the latest patches of Tapani and Nick? I just use non wib-wob tactics and I'm struggling a lot.. Although I would like to use the latest team data (march 2020) and several options from the patches.

    Edit: hmm, I don't see any difference regarding the .pct tactic files between the March 2020 update data and the original 3.9.68 data folder. Is it possible to just copy the .pct files of the original 3.9.68 data in to the data folder (+ overwrite) and will it work on save games too? Or does it not work like that / am I missing something?
    Last edited by Joster; 30-05-20 at 06:45 PM.

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