Results 1 to 25 of 25

Thread: Save Game Editors - what are they for?

  1. #1
    316'sRegen Unattached

    Save Game Editors - what are they for?

    Save game editors are something I have never used.

    Now I know that without these great tools the likes of are you the next by wato and swede's faroes story etc would not be possible and they do have a place on the forum. I'm not sure how the updating team works but I'm sure the editor plays a big part in that as well so it's a key part of keeping the game alive as well as a great accomplishment for the guys that coded the applications.

    What my question/point is about the subject is does everyone use these when playing the game as a "tool" to show them the hidden attributes etc?

    Personally I enjoy the idea that you don't know everything about the players and you need to implement the scouting to find out a lot of the stuff.
    I enjoy that you get a player who may be able to play many positions and it's up to yourself as a manager to find out by trial and error what the player's optimal position is. You can compare any two players and it tells you their best position as well in game.

    So is this at odds with the general consensus?
    Do most players use the save gameeditor in the background to show them things that would normally be hidden in game or do most people play the game as it was intended, without aids?

  2. #2

    Join Date
    04-03-12
    Posts
    3,492
    vCash
    681
    I've only ever used a save game editor when getting the 'blocked permission by board' error. That really fucking annoys me when you've got the cash to upgrade the stadium. I think you might be getting tools such as CMScout and Save Game Editors confused though Chris. CMScout can be used to find the hidden attributes of players but it doesn't have an effect on the save game. Graeme Kelley's editor however can alter the save game and it also shows intrinsic values for attributes which shows the strength of attributes in relation to the CA/PA and how 'powerful' they really are. I'm with you though, I play CM purely for the 'challenge' and using a tool like CMScout deminishes that challenge. There is weight behind an argument that the player search function isn't as effective in a network game (due to click-lag) but each to their own I suppose.

  3. #3
    316'sRegen Unattached
    Yeah like I said, I've next to no knowledge of these tools so didn't know even the difference between the two

    I wasn't referring specifically to network games though it brings up a good point, it does give a big advantage to use the tool.

    I'll be sticking to the "pure" champman experience I know and love though

  4. #4

    Join Date
    20-09-12
    Posts
    416
    vCash
    500
    I used a SGE yesterday because one of my players was permanently stuck on 88% fitness no matter what I did with training, playing, resting etc. Set to 100% and now his fitness acts normally. I feel such use is fair. I don't generally touch editors though.

  5. #5
    316'sRegen Unattached
    I've seen that before with players, I would usually give them no training for a week or two to clear that up.

    Did the physio report come back all clear as well?

  6. #6

    Join Date
    20-09-12
    Posts
    416
    vCash
    500
    Yes, none of my three physios reported anything. The guy in question also had an injury and once 'fit' again still only reached 88%. Using an editor was the last resort, other than selling the guy or just accepting that he was never going to be fully fit. But as he is a very promising DC who I want to develop I decided to cross over to the dark side very briefly.

  7. #7

    Join Date
    02-03-12
    Posts
    3,174
    vCash
    13450
    Yo..

    I only ever use the Editor for the AYTN Series.. and to add a 2nd nationality to my manager at the start of a new career.....

    I've never used it for anything else.. and i dont agree with CM scout... I think it shud be banished..

  8. #8

    Join Date
    21-03-12
    Posts
    170
    vCash
    500
    Well, personally, I'm frustrated not everything that depends on my decisions is visible and known.

    The reason is mainly that CM3's an old game and it's main goal is to be fun, not to be strategically challenging. The trend in strategy games (which CM is) for the past 6-7 years has been to give the player all the info, at least where his domain is concerned - in CM that's your players' and the team details - and let him know clearly how his decision and its result are related. For example, your skill intensive routine increased your skill-related attributes by 6 intrinsic points each in 3 weeks as opposed to the 5 weeks it would have taken if you had put the players on medium skill development. In case you're wondering, your skill-related atts are crossing, dribbling, heading, marking, passing, and tackling. The shooting atts are finishing, penalties and long shots and the tactical atts are decisions, movement and positioning. Of course, the game shows you nothing about this and you have to learn it through GK's Savegame editor.

    Actually, I've nothing against sussing hidden atts out in the course of the game, but... does anyone know what most of them even do? The link between most attributes and their effects is completely obscured. There's no way of knowing how they interact in the match-engine. We all hope that they do one thing or another but we can't know, not even indirectly. I find that unfair to the player that wants to know what's going on in the game. Of course, msot of us are just people that want to have fun with the game, so in that respect it's doing its job fine.

  9. #9
    316'sRegen Unattached
    I would disagree there Trip, of course you can see which attributes improve depending on your training, you just go into view drop down and choose attributes when in the squad screen.

    Granted this will take a long time, you will see the results over months not days but that was my point. Some of the things about managing the team should be long term, not gained immediately by an exploit, that's what I don't like about these programs.

    I do agree with you about trying to surmise what some of the attributes do, we all have our superstitions and belief systems
    but only the guys who made the game really know i guess.

    We need to track them fuckers down, surely they know about the site by now?
    Knowing everything would ruin it though I reckon, which was my original point.

  10. #10

    Join Date
    18-12-11
    Location
    Dresden
    Posts
    7,502
    vCash
    4030
    the update team uses no save game editor whatsoever. only the official pre-game editor that comes with the game.

  11. #11

    Join Date
    21-03-12
    Posts
    170
    vCash
    500
    Quote Originally Posted by Chris_3_16 View Post
    ...
    Chris, the thing is, when you get to the down and dirty of the game, you really can't know what training routine raises what attributes. A few months in almost all attributes are green and some who have improved are still yellow. So in that respect CM is no help at all. "Some things should be long-term" sounds nice until you realize that they're both long term and you're completely uncertain as to what's happened at all.

    The thing is, to me, to be strategically challenging, a game should not wilfully withhold information about my own team and players. That sort of opacity is something game-designers try to avoid and most great classics of turn-based strategy (Civilization, Galactic Civilizations, Heroes, etc.) don't have it. Of course, you don't know what your opponent(s) is/are up to, but that's another thing. And of course, it's all right if you need some time to learn everything about your team.

    But at the end, the challenge doesn't come from not knowing what you're options are. I hate to ask myself questions like "What the fuck do I do to develop this guy the way I want to?" or "What the fuck do I do to make my team play tiki-taka?" I want to know how to do that. And I want the challenge to come from questions like "Can I execute it well enough for the tiki-taka to be really effective?" or "Do I have the players for tiki-taka?" or "Should I play that way against this opponent?" That sort of thing. The trade-offs between options you know are a much more exciting and challenging approach than performing esoteric gaming rituals and keeping fingers crossed that it would somehow work out.

    All of the above, however, doesn't matter if the game is, despite of all, fun. And CM is. It's just that the fun doesn't come from its strategic aspects.

  12. #12

    Join Date
    26-04-12
    Posts
    220
    vCash
    500
    I used editor to switch from reserve squad to main squad as he was in Mallorca reserves (but such team doesnt exist only Mallorca B)

    I also used editor to kill "unreal age" for playing. To be precise retire them faster. Phil Nevill was 45 and still playing, the same was with Xavi and Van Bommel.

  13. #13
    316'sRegen Unattached
    i see what you're saying Trip, I just reckon this is the way the game was designed, and they got something right if we're still digging on 10 years later.

    Football managers in real life perhaps have more control over coaching and outcomes from coaching regimes and this is most likely reflected in the FM series.
    The 50 or so different training tasks in FM2007 actually put me off playing the game, I'm a simple minded player

    But football managers in real life can't check a players Current and Potential ability numbers to see if they are worth investing in.
    I've bought manys a dud player with whopping stats, which is another interesting part of the game, which also happens to real life managers sometimes.

    While you reckon champ0102 is flawed in these stats being hidden, I embrace it.

    The thing is, cm0102 was the pinnacle of perfect balance between not too much stats and figures and tasks and media questions and bookies odds and so on that the FM series brought in, while still being detailed enough to make you feel in control of the team. Ithink this is why it's great and this is why I'm against the game "aids" that strip all this away.

  14. #14

    Join Date
    21-03-12
    Posts
    170
    vCash
    500
    I can tell you what the game has going on for me after all these years.

    1) It's a football simulation. For many people that would be enough, because there are precious few of those in the gaming world (tbh, there aren't any).
    2) As you said, it's uncomplicated to play. There's a huge amount of numbers in it, but the PC keeps track of them so it's all right.
    3) It provides easy gratification. Seeing victories and goals and assists and ratings stack up taps into our sense of achievement, even if it's only a game.

    And finally, I am not suggesting to replicate the control over everything the way FM does - even though in terms of transparency and knowing what you're doing it's miles ahead of CM. I'm suggesting that you know what your actions actually do, however many or few they are, however detailed or general in their nature they are.

    For example, let the training sessions stay the way they are. I just want to have the option of a coach report on a player that tells me how far along his progress he is and if there are some upcoming benchmarks of skill that he's about to reach and approximately when that's happening - and if it isn't, what might be the problem. And then the choice might be to tweak the training, to have a pep-talk with him the same way you can discipline him, that sort of thing. But the could be a limitation to provide that sort of attention only to a limited number of players so you have to choose whom to favor at any given moment. This thing would not make the game process any more complicated than it is since all the mechanisms I suggest are already part of the game as it is.

  15. #15

    Join Date
    18-05-13
    Posts
    802
    vCash
    2500
    What is the best SGE? Where do I find it? How do I use it?

    I've started a LFC career but there are some small details I want to tweak without starting a new career.

  16. #16

    Join Date
    16-12-11
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    11,826
    vCash
    0
    Downloads > Tools

    Cm Explorer/Cm God/ GK Save Game Editor

    All easy to use

  17. #17
    316'sRegen Unattached
    small details like league titles or bank balance?

    I'm only joking obviously

  18. #18

    Join Date
    18-05-13
    Posts
    802
    vCash
    2500
    Quote Originally Posted by Chris_3_16 View Post
    small details like league titles or bank balance?

    I'm only joking obviously


    For some reason, Jamie Carragher is listed as playing anywhere. Want to make Gerrard a CM, not a DM. On this last point, if I make him 20 for AM, 20 for CM and 20 for DM, what does his listed position become on the game?

    Despite it being only 2001, I want to make Old Trafford's capacity to modern day standards; and want Arsenal to play at the Emirates while making Chelsea and Man City very wealthy. I'm Liverpool and I want four clubs pushing me every year. Gonna give them the very best coaches and training facilities if they don't already have them. Every now and a agin, I want to move some of the better young players (that don't play for me) into their squads.

  19. #19

    Join Date
    18-05-13
    Posts
    802
    vCash
    2500
    Quote Originally Posted by Fodster View Post
    Downloads > Tools

    Cm Explorer/Cm God/ GK Save Game Editor

    All easy to use
    With these in game editors, how do I find my saved game?

  20. #20

    Join Date
    05-03-12
    Location
    Ribble Valley
    Posts
    5,093
    vCash
    19400
    Quote Originally Posted by ajra21 View Post


    For some reason, Jamie Carragher is listed as playing anywhere. Want to make Gerrard a CM, not a DM. On this last point, if I make him 20 for AM, 20 for CM and 20 for DM, what does his listed position become on the game?

    Despite it being only 2001, I want to make Old Trafford's capacity to modern day standards; and want Arsenal to play at the Emirates while making Chelsea and Man City very wealthy. I'm Liverpool and I want four clubs pushing me every year. Gonna give them the very best coaches and training facilities if they don't already have them. Every now and a agin, I want to move some of the better young players (that don't play for me) into their squads.
    He would be a DM. (edit to add, anything over 15 in DM would make him a DM, so AM20, M20, DM15 = DM)

    I only ever use the save game editor to change my nationality when I want to move to another country.

    As for hidden attributes, if anyone wants to see them, they would be better playing with fog of war off rather than using an editor.

  21. #21

    Join Date
    05-03-12
    Location
    Barakaldo, Spain
    Posts
    372
    vCash
    600
    The only reason I use a save game editor is to increase the capacity of the stadium. MY rule is if I get turned down by the local council 3 times at the same club, I allow myself to expand the stadium capacity at a cost of 2,500,000 per 1000 seats.

  22. #22

    Join Date
    05-03-12
    Location
    Barakaldo, Spain
    Posts
    372
    vCash
    600
    Quote Originally Posted by ajra21 View Post
    With these in game editors, how do I find my saved game?
    Open the editor, click load, then look in your CM 01/02 directory. Default is C:\Program Files\Championship Manager 01-02. Your save game will be in that folder, no need to look in data or tactics or anywhere else.

  23. #23

    Join Date
    18-05-13
    Posts
    802
    vCash
    2500
    Quote Originally Posted by The Eejit View Post
    He would be a DM. (edit to add, anything over 15 in DM would make him a DM, so AM20, M20, DM15 = DM)

    I only ever use the save game editor to change my nationality when I want to move to another country.

    As for hidden attributes, if anyone wants to see them, they would be better playing with fog of war off rather than using an editor.
    Interesting. I assumed he'd be a CM and its the middle of the bunch.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sam View Post
    Open the editor, click load, then look in your CM 01/02 directory. Default is C:\Program Files\Championship Manager 01-02. Your save game will be in that folder, no need to look in data or tactics or anywhere else.
    Thanks. I haven't downloaded one yet but will do on Sunday evening when I have more time. I tried last week but the sites said I had to sign up with them. Is this really necessary? I don't like signing up for stuff.

  24. #24

    Join Date
    16-12-11
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    11,826
    vCash
    0

  25. #25
    Craig Forrest's Avatar
    Craig Forrest is offline Manager
    Programmer
    Forum Enforcer
    Holy Trinity Member

    Join Date
    02-03-12
    Location
    The Great White North
    Posts
    4,641
    vCash
    3847
    I've used a SGE when I needed to alter stuff for a personal challenge or a story or something.... and I have used CM scout when managing a small nation when I can't find any players (or very few players) through the official search function or my scouts etc.... I've never used any of them to try and find hidden atts or anything like that.... I prefer to judge a players ability on my own

Members who have read this thread: 12

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •