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Thread: What 'Attributes' do

  1. #1

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    What 'Attributes' do

    Don't worry there will only be the two threads,


    Acceleration = ability to accelerate to top speed
    Aggression = commitment to tackles/headers once decided to commit
    agility (GK) = ability to dive + recover from a save
    Anticipation = ability to intercept a pass
    balance = recovery from tackle/header (both tackles made and received)
    bravery = commitment to tackles/headers/one-one-one when deciding to commit or not
    creativity = ability to spot the best pass to make
    crossing = ability to make a cross
    decisions = resistance to negative influences affecting when with the ball
    determination = ability to train, resistance to negative influences affecting overall match performance
    dribbling = resistance to tackling
    finishing = ability to make close-range-shots
    flair = ability to make sudden clever move
    handling (GK) = ability to catch ball
    heading = ability to make a good header
    influence = resistance to negative influences affecting overall match performance on self + others, bonus for captain
    jumping = ability to win header/high ball (GK)
    long shots = ability and commitment to long shots
    marking = ability to mark
    off the ball = Ability to get into good attacking position when without ball
    pace = top speed
    passing = ability to pass
    positioning = ability to get into good defensive position when without ball + stick to formation + bonus to others (captain only)
    reflexes (GK) = ability to make quick block
    set pieces = ability to take penalties + free kicks + corners
    stamina = ability to last a game
    strength = ability to win/resist tackle/header + ability to injure opponent
    tackling = ability to make tackle
    teamwork = commitment to passing (over keeping ball to self)
    technique = ability to receive ball (especially if not passed)
    work rate = resistance to negative influences affecting physical ability/commitment

    Adaptability = ability to learn foreign language
    ambition = commitment to joining the biggest club possible
    consistency = resistance to all negative influences affecting match performance
    corners = ability to take corner
    dirtiness = commitment to fouling when tackling
    free kicks = ability to take free kicks
    important matches = resitance to negative influences of playing a cup/international match
    injury proneness = ability to be injured
    left foot = ability to use left foot
    loyalty = commitment to club outside of match
    natural fitness = ability to recover condition outside of match
    one-one-one = ability in one-on-one between player and GK (both players use this GK more so)
    penalties = ability to take penalty
    pressure = resistance to negative influences affecting games when low in league + cup games
    professionalism = commitment to training + resistance to negative inflences on temper
    right foot = ability with right foot
    sportsmanship = seemingly nothing of any actual importance
    Temperment = resistance to negative influences on temper
    throw ins = ability to take throw-in
    versatility = ability to retrain position + resistance to negative influence of playing out of position (which is roughly 10% per place)
    vision = ability to avoid interception + ability to spot gap to pass to space

  2. #2

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    I think someone had a thread and loaded the booklet as a PDF. Maybe that was on old server though and never came over. I've never read it all way though but recently started. Interesting

  3. #3

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    Some very interesting nuts-and-bolts things here, wonder if the match engine supports them (i.e. workrate negating physical influences, the playing out of position percentages)
    So it's in a booklet for the game?

  4. #4

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    Infers that low teamwork would potentially make a better dribbler (with high dribbling, natch)

    Interesting captain bonuses, too - like positioning. I remember someone starting a workrate based story once, where everyone in their squad had to have workrate 16+ or something like that. I always wanted to do one of those games, might start one up soon based on this, including decisions and influence as well.

    I still don't really get what 'set pieces' does, though

  5. #5

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    I remember that story, think it was in the hall of fame using Blackpool as the team. Was a great read.

  6. #6

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    high work rate means a player will continue to operate at (nearer) 100% despite a drop in condition. He will also ignore bad weather. This is not so good if a game goes to extra time because he will have run himself into the ground. I am sure the previous game guide (for CM3) said a Captain needed high influence and teamwork, this makes no mention of teamwork but says positioning.

    I did not know that high dribbling made you more resistant to tackles.

    I also did not know about the diffence between agression and bravery

    high bravery means a player is more likely to commit to a tackle. indeed someone in the AYTN story has a player with max positioning/tackling but 0.0 tackles as his bravery is 1. He WOULD make amazing tackles, IF he had the guts to make one.

    Aggression determines how hard a player will go in ONCE HE HAS ALREADY DECIDED TO TACKLE, which means he wont make MORE but may make BETTER also of course he is more likely to foul by going in hard.

    Aggression is not dirtyness though, that decides how much he will foul on purpose, otherwise "he's not that type of player, he didn't MEAN to cause that career ending leg break, it was a 50/50 ball"

  7. #7

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    Wouldn't adaptability also help if you want a player to learn a new position, or does it just pertain to learning languages and such?

  8. #8
    Dermotron is offline Sir Mergements
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    Versatility is for learning new positions

  9. #9

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    how rude of me, I have not responded to some questions

    The guide is from the official Prima guide to the game. I did buy the guide to CM3 but at some point either lost or threw it away so I bought this off ebay for 1p. It is similar but not identical to the original book. These guides often simply state what a decent instruction manual should do, although for RPG stlye games they often have a full walkthrough (but such things now have their own wikia anyway)

    With regards to "set pieces" I do not understand this at all either. The player has penalties, free kicks and corners all as hidden stats and a catch all "free kicks" that covers them all as a visible stat.
    Although physical stats like acceleration/pace strength/stamina/naturual fitness should all have a reasonable degree of similarity, they all have clearly defined roles, and if a player has totally random stats such as accelleration 1 pace 20 or stamina 20 natural fitness 1, it it unrealistic, but at least understandable how it would work in the game.
    With all these stats the book makes no note of how important they are in relation to each other. Are you more likely to resist a tackle by being strong or have high dribbling? I dont know. What if the random generator says penalties 1 set pieces 20, is that better than penalties 20, set pieces 1? I'm afraid I dont know.

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  11. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dermotron View Post
    Versatility is for learning new positions
    Ah, ok, didn't catch that initially. Sometimes, when stuff is lined up like that, I tend to miss it now and again.

  12. #11

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    Attributes: What do they do?

    Here's a YouTube video I recently made where I talk about what attributes do and which attributes are important regarding to certain team/player instructions.





    I do want to stress that this is how I think about attributes and is not persť the absolute truth.
    Go check out my YouTube channel with lots of CM 01-02 related video's!

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    One question, might be impertinent to use in this post: where could I download this manual?

  14. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by dilson84 View Post
    One question, might be impertinent to use in this post: where could I download this manual?
    If you mount the ISO file of the game and go to your virtual drive, there should be a folder called 'MANUAL' with the manual as PDF file in it.
    Go check out my YouTube channel with lots of CM 01-02 related video's!

  15. #14
    Dermotron is offline Sir Mergements
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    Quote Originally Posted by GFRay View Post
    If you mount the ISO file of the game and go to your virtual drive, there should be a folder called 'MANUAL' with the manual as PDF file in it.
    Fuck. Off.

    I've been minding the hard copy like it's the Arc of the Covenant for nearly 2 decades

  16. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dermotron View Post
    Fuck. Off.

    I've been minding the hard copy like it's the Arc of the Covenant for nearly 2 decades
    You didn't know that?
    Go check out my YouTube channel with lots of CM 01-02 related video's!

  17. #16
    Dermotron is offline Sir Mergements
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  18. #17

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    Very comprehensive guide, and very well explained! Specially the tactical roles of attributes, that gave me new insights on things. Thank you for that.

    My 2 cents:

    Direct passing isn't just the long pass but on the ground, I think. Direct passing is an urge to give the ball to more creative players or to put the team on the advanced parts of the field. With direct passing, players will tend to look for forward, riskier passing rather than side, safer passing, but not necessarily for the long pass. Long pass is to pump the ball out of the defense as quickly as possible, ideally looking for a counter-attack, direct pass is to force the team out of the defense and into the attack by giving the ball to playmakers or strikers, that in turn will look to immediately create a goal opportunity rather than wait for the opposition to give an opening. Basically, with long pass you don't control the game, with direct pass you do.

    For instance, if the playmaker is set to be the MR, the left DC wants to pass for the MR, with direct pass play he might do it himself or choose to pass someone that is close to the MR, like the right MC, so that the ball reaches him quickly. With short pass, the left DC will probably pass the left MC in front of him or the right DC, the players that are close to him. The game is played on a slower and safer way. With long pass, the DC will just pump the ball forward in the general direction of a striker.

    I see the passing styles much more as playing tempo and I think there're ideal combinations of passing style and mentality - like, you don't want to play direct passing and defensive play, or offensive play and short passing, those don't go well together -, although I've never quite tested this. So, this is just an educated guess of mine.

    Also, for captains work rate might be something to look for, or so I was always told. It makes sense, as he's the role model of the team, basically, but I don't know how to judge that from match info.

    I wanna give a suggestion, too: make a guide on the hidden attributes and how to have an educated guess about them with the info the game gives you. That is something that always have pulled my leg in this game.

  19. #18

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    And here I was always thinking that Aggression meant how likely a person is to pick up yellow or red cards!

  20. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Dermotron View Post
    Fuck. Off.

    I've been minding the hard copy like it's the Arc of the Covenant for nearly 2 decades
    nice one Dr. Jones!

  21. #20

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    Is determination really that important? I mean plenty of posts here mention it - every position needs it etc. I found plenty of regens (I have 2035 a.d. now) have quite low determination (Ronaldo's regen has 7 for egz.), but they are still playing quite well (mentioned ronaldo regen, but I had quite a number of talented, not very determined players, that gave me few CL finals).

    Also I found that new-gens get pace attribute from their older ancestors and it's low in most of cases - is there any reason (and/or easy way) to improve it? It rises so slowly, and fitness based training is devastating stamina of my guys. Seems like football in 2035 will be much slower .

  22. #21
    I guess as the years go on it may become relative. All reincarnated players will get hit with dropping determintion so the great players will still be great.

    Not sure when or where I read it but it helps players reach their potential. If you are knowingly signing regens of greats then it won't matter.

  23. #22

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    If determination is only needed for players to get their full potential (CA I guess) then it's useless - they will get it anyway, even if a bit later. Also 90% of regens have (according to CM Scout) more than 70% of their potential at the begning of their careers (like 164/170 for 17 yo striker).

    I allways tought that det. is important if you are loosing the game (and having substitution with high det. is a godsend if you are loosing in last 10 minutes).

  24. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kynio View Post
    If determination is only needed for players to get their full potential (CA I guess) then it's useless - they will get it anyway, even if a bit later. Also 90% of regens have (according to CM Scout) more than 70% of their potential at the begning of their careers (like 164/170 for 17 yo striker).

    I allways tought that det. is important if you are loosing the game (and having substitution with high det. is a godsend if you are loosing in last 10 minutes).
    Just do a test to see what it does. Create 2 the same players in everything except Determination. In a half season players with Determination 20 have developed +- 30 more att.points as the same players with Determination 1.

    You might be right about the players reaching their PA, but without chances to play it can be a long road. Development of atts will take a long time (and don't develop as much as players with high DET.)

    But still DET isn't THE answers. It's in combination with the Atts and the dynamic between the players in the team and the atts of the staff.

  25. #24
    You see, what you know about regens and CA/PA has made a lot of stuff insignificant. Ignorance is bliss.

  26. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kynio View Post
    Is determination really that important? I mean plenty of posts here mention it - every position needs it etc.
    A long time back I did an experiment on 3.9.68 with Arsenal to see how Determination affects performance. In the first round I set every player to Determination 20 and simmed the season. Arsenal won the Premier League by miles and the Champion's
    League also.

    Then I made carried out the opposite test with Determination at 1 on the whole squad. IIRC they finished 3rd and were knocked out of the CL at an earlier stage. Overall player ratings also dropped by between 0.5 and 1.0 season average.

    So, it makes a difference, but likely not that much of a difference because you wouldn't usually be playing a whole squad of ultra-low or ultra-high Determination players.

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