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Thread: Financial Changes

  1. #76
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    Not all leagues have level of detail either, some do but most is guess work and estimating

    http://www.mlsplayers.org/images/Sep...0(updated).pdf

  2. #77
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tapani View Post
    Taxes ... seeing that as the players responsibility to pay their own taxes. (Afaik, France has it that way -- in the end of the year govt sees how much they spent, and sets the tax rate appropriately, and everyone has to pay their taxes themselves instead of having them deducted by the employer)

    To get this back on track:
    - I am currently tweaking evaluation of players, and salaries. It appears I have introduced some instability - getting a crash per 10 years of holidaying :-/
    - How much are the top players worth nowadays? (as most of you know, I do not follow football, I have no idea). Guessing on 50-80M GBP?
    - How much do the top players make? Is 150k p/w outrageous? Or in realistic range?
    i said taxes because i'm afraid if all the values in games are duplicated and updated to real life, top clubs will earn so much more than what they spend, but i think once you have updated everything we can make a better analysis on this

  3. #78
    Join Date
    02-04-12
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    Making the financial bit more realistic and harder sounds good. However, in this game a club can go bankrupt without it having any real consequences. They are simply taken over by a new board, debt is cleared and off they go again.

    IRL, bankrupcy will cause relegation, players leaving, starting the next season with points deducted ... all sorts of problems. Now, if any of that could be incorporated within this ancient game...

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by milo View Post
    i said taxes because i'm afraid if all the values in games are duplicated and updated to real life, top clubs will earn so much more than what they spend, but i think once you have updated everything we can make a better analysis on this
    Just ran a test where Man Utd, Liverpool, Arsenal, ... all were in "bankrupt" status.

    Increasing the salaries of players is tricky, we don't want most clubs go belly up.

    If I just "scale" the money like in one of the 2.19.x patches, there are no changes to the game. Just the numbers shown are larger (wanting to avoid that, and do the change for real rather than a smoke and mirrors trick). On top of that adding player valuation times 1.5 and salaries times 1.5, to make the finances a bit tougher overall.

    Quote Originally Posted by JLa View Post
    Making the financial bit more realistic and harder sounds good. However, in this game a club can go bankrupt without it having any real consequences. They are simply taken over by a new board, debt is cleared and off they go again.

    IRL, bankrupcy will cause relegation, players leaving, starting the next season with points deducted ... all sorts of problems. Now, if any of that could be incorporated within this ancient game...
    How often does it happen that clubs go bankrupt? Does it happen to major clubs (Championship or above) or just small clubs?

    If nothing else I could whip up something ... like if your clubs is too much in the red, you can no longer pay salaries, and players are released on free transfer (starting with the ones with lowest loyalty).

    Relegation? How would that work? Say that a lower table club in PRM goes bankrupt, and gets relegated. Where would they get relegated? Which club would take its place? That would be chain effect through the whole league!

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tapani View Post
    How often does it happen that clubs go bankrupt? Does it happen to major clubs (Championship or above) or just small clubs?

    It happens, but it's not that common. I'd say it usually happens to smaller clubs, but bigger clubs need to look after their finances too. Glasgow Rangers, a major club in Scotland, were relegated from the premiership to the third division due to bankruptcy in 2012.


    http://www.economist.com/blogs/gamet...%99-bankruptcy


    Quote Originally Posted by Tapani View Post
    If nothing else I could whip up something ... like if your clubs is too much in the red, you can no longer pay salaries, and players are released on free transfer (starting with the ones with lowest loyalty).
    I think these are all good suggestions. It doesn't have to be overly complex, just...you should be punished for being too much in the red.


    Quote Originally Posted by Tapani View Post
    Relegation? How would that work? Say that a lower table club in PRM goes bankrupt, and gets relegated. Where would they get relegated? Which club would take its place? That would be chain effect through the whole league!
    I don't know how FA's around the world actually solves these questions, but if one team is moved downwards, I guess every club above them are moved one position up on the league tables. As you say, chain effect. No idea.
    Last edited by JLa; 19-02-15 at 10:25 AM.

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tapani View Post
    Just ran a test where Man Utd, Liverpool, Arsenal, ... all were in "bankrupt" status.

    Increasing the salaries of players is tricky, we don't want most clubs go belly up.

    If I just "scale" the money like in one of the 2.19.x patches, there are no changes to the game. Just the numbers shown are larger (wanting to avoid that, and do the change for real rather than a smoke and mirrors trick). On top of that adding player valuation times 1.5 and salaries times 1.5, to make the finances a bit tougher overall.
    I think this is where prize and tv money would need to be reviewed also. You got scale everything and then work out prize money and tv changes from there? For instance in the EPL the tv money with 2.5 multiplier would become 30m p/a. From next season each club will be get 65m p/a from the tv deal.

    Is there a way to link merchandise and other (sponsorship) to club rep? These are the 2 huge changes since 0102. I can do some research on what a club gets p/a in the game and try work out how it's valued but it's a tiny fraction of the actual money clubs receive. From a random save I have here Man Utd made 20.4m on merchandise in CM (or 50m in todays values) - in real life it was 170m on merchandise and 190m on sponsorship and commercial combined.

    Obviously it would be near impossible to make changes club to club even Merchandising in game (m*2.5(5) would be an all round more accurate reflective. perhaps. For instance in the save, League One club Crewe made 141k from merchandising. So the (m*2.5(5) applied to they're figure would be 1.7m p/a, where the *5 is taking into account sponsorship (which is most clubs main revenue stream)

    Could be a big help to make the changes you tested and not have clubs going broke. The other issue there could be that we have set the wages in the game, so all players would be signing new contracts plus signing on fees to get the newer bigger deals on offer. Like at Arsenal the top earner is Mesut Ozil on 80k, so 200k with the multiplier. This jumps to 300k with the salary multiplier. But the club still only makes the old values on tv, prize, gate and merchandise. Plus the balance in the DB is the same. Once the 300k is available to more players, players with similar CR will want new deals meaning by end of season 1 there could be 8 or so players on 300k p/w or 125m in wages p/a. That doesn't include inflated signing on fees which are a killer for the balance of a club. As I originally started with, the tv money allow would only be 30m, and this is what is paying for these huge wages these days.
    Last edited by Dermotron; 19-02-15 at 12:50 PM.

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tapani View Post
    Just ran a test where Man Utd, Liverpool, Arsenal, ... all were in "bankrupt" status.

    Increasing the salaries of players is tricky, we don't want most clubs go belly up.
    did you also update tv money according to real life? clubs like real, bara or english top 4/5 earn around 120-130 millions € each...

    this is last season list for big 5 championships --> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/art...rn-Munich.html


    EDIT - didn't notice dermo posted the same

  8. #83
    Join Date
    30-06-14
    Posts
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    Dermotron,

    thank you for your posts! There is no way I would have known abou merchandising being such big source of income, that list of player valuations is also great to tweak parameters against.
    Also understand that I do not have 100% control of things inside CM, it is sometimes hard work to do a simple change (I have no idea how to increase the merchandising income -- an I would like to do that).

    Regarding salaries set in db, the initial salaries are unaffected by my changes - they are still low, and will ramp up with the years.


    A general financial status update:

    Tweaking the economy is hard. Seems like the computer clubs just give the players what they want, so increasing salaries notably will cause clubs go bankrupt.
    Also, it seems like salary requests are based on player value, so increasing one increases the other. It is a nasty "feedback loop".

    The good side is that I have in one day seen no less than FIVE new messages in the game (seeing just one new one is rare for me).

    Since I will be having many long holiday sessions ahead of me, I'll probably hack in some experimental newgen code -- and use the same long holiday sessions to tweak both.

  9. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by Tapani View Post
    Also understand that I do not have 100% control of things inside CM, it is sometimes hard work to do a simple change (I have no idea how to increase the merchandising income -- an I would like to do that).
    I might be able to help with that.

    Finances.cpp is stored at: 9c8784

    Possible matches for merchandising last month:
    Code:
    0040C9BD  |.  8B47 6C       MOV EAX,DWORD PTR DS:[EDI+6C]
    0040E64D  |.  8B47 6C       MOV EAX,DWORD PTR DS:[EDI+6C]
    00413F24  |.  8941 6C       MOV DWORD PTR DS:[ECX+6C],EAX
    00428447  |.  8978 6C       |MOV DWORD PTR DS:[EAX+6C],EDI
    0042BC3F  |.  895424 6C     MOV DWORD PTR SS:[ESP+6C],EDX
    0043DE30  |.  8941 6C       MOV DWORD PTR DS:[ECX+6C],EAX            ; |
    0043EB91  |.  8B48 6C       MOV ECX,DWORD PTR DS:[EAX+6C]            ; |
    00444974  |.  895C24 6C     MOV DWORD PTR SS:[ESP+6C],EBX
    00444A6B  |.  894424 6C     MOV DWORD PTR SS:[ESP+6C],EAX
    00444A8F  |.  894424 6C     MOV DWORD PTR SS:[ESP+6C],EAX
    00444A98  |.  895C24 6C     MOV DWORD PTR SS:[ESP+6C],EBX
    004471AF  |>  8B7C24 6C     ||MOV EDI,DWORD PTR SS:[ESP+6C]
    00462DC6  |.  8B4D 6C       MOV ECX,DWORD PTR SS:[EBP+6C]
    0046450C  |.  8B55 6C       MOV EDX,DWORD PTR SS:[EBP+6C]
    0047C562  |.  8B5424 6C     MOV EDX,DWORD PTR SS:[ESP+6C]
    004C865F  |.  895424 6C     |MOV DWORD PTR SS:[ESP+6C],EDX           ; |
    004C9829  |.  895424 6C     |MOV DWORD PTR SS:[ESP+6C],EDX
    0051B7B5  |.  8B5424 6C     MOV EDX,DWORD PTR SS:[ESP+6C]
    0055DC64  |.  8942 6C       MOV DWORD PTR DS:[EDX+6C],EAX
    00579471  |.  8942 6C       MOV DWORD PTR DS:[EDX+6C],EAX            ; |
    005798DA  |.  8B48 6C       MOV ECX,DWORD PTR DS:[EAX+6C]            ; |
    00579A23  |.  8B48 6C       MOV ECX,DWORD PTR DS:[EAX+6C]            ; |
    0057E147  |.  8951 6C       MOV DWORD PTR DS:[ECX+6C],EDX
    0057E1A2  |.  8942 6C       MOV DWORD PTR DS:[EDX+6C],EAX
    0057E1B1  |.  8B50 6C       MOV EDX,DWORD PTR DS:[EAX+6C]
    005858A8  |.  8B4C24 6C     |MOV ECX,DWORD PTR SS:[ESP+6C]           ; |
    0059668A  |.  895E 6C       MOV DWORD PTR DS:[ESI+6C],EBX
    005B0FD2  |.  895424 6C     |MOV DWORD PTR SS:[ESP+6C],EDX
    005B0FD8  |>  897424 6C     |MOV DWORD PTR SS:[ESP+6C],ESI
    005B1003  |.  894424 6C     |MOV DWORD PTR SS:[ESP+6C],EAX
    005B104B  |.  8B4C24 6C     ||MOV ECX,DWORD PTR SS:[ESP+6C]
    005B139E  |>  8B4C24 6C     |||MOV ECX,DWORD PTR SS:[ESP+6C]
    005B13BB  |.  894C24 6C     |||MOV DWORD PTR SS:[ESP+6C],ECX
    005B13F8  |.  8B4C24 6C     ||MOV ECX,DWORD PTR SS:[ESP+6C]
    005B1405  |.  894C24 6C     ||MOV DWORD PTR SS:[ESP+6C],ECX
    005B144E  |>  8B4424 6C     ||/MOV EAX,DWORD PTR SS:[ESP+6C]
    005B15BE  |.  8B4C24 6C     |||MOV ECX,DWORD PTR SS:[ESP+6C]
    005B15CC  |.  894C24 6C     |||MOV DWORD PTR SS:[ESP+6C],ECX
    005B15F3  |.  8B7C24 6C     ||MOV EDI,DWORD PTR SS:[ESP+6C]
    005B160B  |.  897C24 6C     ||MOV DWORD PTR SS:[ESP+6C],EDI
    005B164F  |>  8B4424 6C     ||/MOV EAX,DWORD PTR SS:[ESP+6C]
    005B17B2  |.  8B4C24 6C     |||MOV ECX,DWORD PTR SS:[ESP+6C]
    005B17C0  |.  894C24 6C     |||MOV DWORD PTR SS:[ESP+6C],ECX
    005B17E7  |.  8B7C24 6C     ||MOV EDI,DWORD PTR SS:[ESP+6C]
    005B17FF  |.  897C24 6C     ||MOV DWORD PTR SS:[ESP+6C],EDI
    005CE31C   .  896C24 6C     MOV DWORD PTR SS:[ESP+6C],EBP
    005D20FF   .  8B5424 6C     MOV EDX,DWORD PTR SS:[ESP+6C]            ; |
    005D3A04   >  8B6C24 6C     MOV EBP,DWORD PTR SS:[ESP+6C]
    005D5115   >  8B7C24 6C     MOV EDI,DWORD PTR SS:[ESP+6C]
    005D57CC   >  8B6C24 6C     MOV EBP,DWORD PTR SS:[ESP+6C]
    005D5870   .  896C24 6C     MOV DWORD PTR SS:[ESP+6C],EBP
    005E2E74  |.  FF52 6C       CALL DWORD PTR DS:[EDX+6C]
    005E2E92  |.  FF52 6C       CALL DWORD PTR DS:[EDX+6C]
    005E5818  |.  8B5424 6C     |||MOV EDX,DWORD PTR SS:[ESP+6C]
    005EF253  |.  8956 6C       MOV DWORD PTR DS:[ESI+6C],EDX            ; |
    005EF8C2  |.  8953 6C       MOV DWORD PTR DS:[EBX+6C],EDX            ; |
    005F9A97  |.  8951 6C       MOV DWORD PTR DS:[ECX+6C],EDX
    00660A14  |.  8941 6C       MOV DWORD PTR DS:[ECX+6C],EAX            ; |
    00660F70  |.  8B42 6C       MOV EAX,DWORD PTR DS:[EDX+6C]            ; |
    00682EB2  |.  FF50 6C       CALL DWORD PTR DS:[EAX+6C]
    006985B2  |.  8B4424 6C     |MOV EAX,DWORD PTR SS:[ESP+6C]
    0069862E  |.  8B4C24 6C     ||MOV ECX,DWORD PTR SS:[ESP+6C]
    006DD383  |.  8B4C24 6C     MOV ECX,DWORD PTR SS:[ESP+6C]
    006E0255   .  C74424 6C 000 MOV DWORD PTR SS:[ESP+6C],0
    006E2ACF  |.  895CBC 6C     |MOV DWORD PTR SS:[EDI*4+ESP+6C],EBX
    00702C60  |.  8B4424 6C          MOV EAX,DWORD PTR SS:[ESP+6C]            ; |
    00703291  |.  894424 6C          MOV DWORD PTR SS:[ESP+6C],EAX
    00703298  |.  DB4424 6C          FILD DWORD PTR SS:[ESP+6C]
    00703CCB  |.  894424 6C          MOV DWORD PTR SS:[ESP+6C],EAX
    00703CCF  |.  DB4424 6C          FILD DWORD PTR SS:[ESP+6C]
    00703E45  |.  C74424 6C 02000000 MOV DWORD PTR SS:[ESP+6C],2
    00703E9E  |.  8B4424 6C          |MOV EAX,DWORD PTR SS:[ESP+6C]
    00703EAD  |.  894424 6C          |MOV DWORD PTR SS:[ESP+6C],EAX
    00706CBE  |.  896C24 6C          MOV DWORD PTR SS:[ESP+6C],EBP
    00706CE1  |.  DA7424 6C          FIDIV DWORD PTR SS:[ESP+6C]
    0083F7A8  |.  C74424 6C 00000000 MOV DWORD PTR SS:[ESP+6C],0
    00847B89  |.  894424 6C          MOV DWORD PTR SS:[ESP+6C],EAX            ; |
    00848ADB  |.  895424 6C          MOV DWORD PTR SS:[ESP+6C],EDX
    008496AF  |.  8B4424 6C          MOV EAX,DWORD PTR SS:[ESP+6C]
    0084C8D0  |.  897C24 6C          MOV DWORD PTR SS:[ESP+6C],EDI            ; |
    0089ACC8  |.  8B4C24 6C          MOV ECX,DWORD PTR SS:[ESP+6C]
    0089CAFE  |>  8B4C24 6C          |MOV ECX,DWORD PTR SS:[ESP+6C]
    0089E4D1  |.  895424 6C          MOV DWORD PTR SS:[ESP+6C],EDX
    0089E506  |.  8B4424 6C          MOV EAX,DWORD PTR SS:[ESP+6C]            ; |
    0089E531  |>  8B5424 6C          MOV EDX,DWORD PTR SS:[ESP+6C]            ; |
    0089E970  |.  8B7424 6C          |MOV ESI,DWORD PTR SS:[ESP+6C]
    0089F1B2  |.  8B4424 6C          MOV EAX,DWORD PTR SS:[ESP+6C]            ; |
    0089F1DD  |>  8B5424 6C          MOV EDX,DWORD PTR SS:[ESP+6C]            ; |
    0089F3BF  |.  8B5C24 6C          |MOV EBX,DWORD PTR SS:[ESP+6C]
    008B040E  |.  89443C 6C          |MOV DWORD PTR SS:[EDI+ESP+6C],EAX
    008DC52F  |.  8944BC 6C          |MOV DWORD PTR SS:[EDI*4+ESP+6C],EAX
    008DD5DD  |>  8B4C34 6C          /MOV ECX,DWORD PTR SS:[ESI+ESP+6C]
    00916882  |.  8942 6C            MOV DWORD PTR DS:[EDX+6C],EAX
    00916D8E  |.  8B4A 6C            MOV ECX,DWORD PTR DS:[EDX+6C]
    00916D9A  |.  895A 6C            MOV DWORD PTR DS:[EDX+6C],EBX
    0092DDED  |.  8941 6C            MOV DWORD PTR DS:[ECX+6C],EAX
    0092F95A  |.  8B47 6C            MOV EAX,DWORD PTR DS:[EDI+6C]
    009387A2  |.  8948 6C            MOV DWORD PTR DS:[EAX+6C],ECX
    0093A8EE  |.  8B41 6C            MOV EAX,DWORD PTR DS:[ECX+6C]
    0093E3CF  |.  897E 6C            MOV DWORD PTR DS:[ESI+6C],EDI
    0093E4B6  |.  8946 6C            MOV DWORD PTR DS:[ESI+6C],EAX
    Possible matches for merchandising this month:
    Code:
    0043E5B0  |.  8981 BC000000 MOV DWORD PTR DS:[ECX+0BC],EAX           ; |
    0043EDCE  |.  8B88 BC000000 MOV ECX,DWORD PTR DS:[EAX+0BC]           ; |
    0044700D  |.  898424 BC0000 ||MOV DWORD PTR SS:[ESP+0BC],EAX
    00462CEE  |.  8B8D BC000000 MOV ECX,DWORD PTR SS:[EBP+0BC]
    00464465  |.  8B95 BC000000 MOV EDX,DWORD PTR SS:[EBP+0BC]
    0047C974  |.  898424 BC0000 MOV DWORD PTR SS:[ESP+0BC],EAX           ; |
    004C88FC  |.  899424 BC0000 |MOV DWORD PTR SS:[ESP+0BC],EDX
    0057E67A  |.  8982 BC000000 MOV DWORD PTR DS:[EDX+0BC],EAX
    0057E68C  |.  8B90 BC000000 MOV EDX,DWORD PTR DS:[EAX+0BC]
    0059664B  |.  899E BC000000 MOV DWORD PTR DS:[ESI+0BC],EBX
    00599DCC  |.  8BBE BC000000 MOV EDI,DWORD PTR DS:[ESI+0BC]
    00599DE1  |.  89BE BC000000 MOV DWORD PTR DS:[ESI+0BC],EDI
    0059B984  |.  8B99 BC000000 MOV EBX,DWORD PTR DS:[ECX+0BC]
    0059B9A5  |.  8999 BC000000 MOV DWORD PTR DS:[ECX+0BC],EBX
    0059CC78  |.  898D BC000000 |MOV DWORD PTR SS:[EBP+0BC],ECX
    005D1290   .  899424 BC0000 MOV DWORD PTR SS:[ESP+0BC],EDX
    005D60EA  |.  8B90 BC000000 |MOV EDX,DWORD PTR DS:[EAX+0BC]
    005D6114  |.  8990 BC000000 |MOV DWORD PTR DS:[EAX+0BC],EDX
    005E27A4  |.  8BAC24 BC0000 MOV EBP,DWORD PTR SS:[ESP+0BC]
    005E291B  |.  8BAC24 BC0000 MOV EBP,DWORD PTR SS:[ESP+0BC]
    005E7965  |.  8B8424 BC0000 |MOV EAX,DWORD PTR SS:[ESP+0BC]
    005E79FF  |.  8B9424 BC0000 MOV EDX,DWORD PTR SS:[ESP+0BC]
    005F9B49  |.  89B8 BC000000 MOV DWORD PTR DS:[EAX+0BC],EDI           ; |
    006DBE66  |.  8B8424 BC0000 MOV EAX,DWORD PTR SS:[ESP+0BC]           ; |
    006E1B6A  |.  8984FC BC0000 |MOV DWORD PTR SS:[EDI*8+ESP+0BC],EAX
    00937178  |.  8B86 BC000000      MOV EAX,DWORD PTR DS:[ESI+0BC]
    009372E1  |.  8B96 BC000000      MOV EDX,DWORD PTR DS:[ESI+0BC]
    00937323  |>  8B86 BC000000      MOV EAX,DWORD PTR DS:[ESI+0BC]
    00937381  |.  8B96 BC000000      MOV EDX,DWORD PTR DS:[ESI+0BC]
    009373D5  |>  8B86 BC000000      MOV EAX,DWORD PTR DS:[ESI+0BC]
    0093A107  |.  8B96 BC000000      MOV EDX,DWORD PTR DS:[ESI+0BC]
    0093A14D  |>  8B86 BC000000      MOV EAX,DWORD PTR DS:[ESI+0BC]
    0093B0F9  |.  8B86 BC000000      MOV EAX,DWORD PTR DS:[ESI+0BC]
    0093B13C  |>  8B86 BC000000      MOV EAX,DWORD PTR DS:[ESI+0BC]
    0093F306  |.  898E BC000000      MOV DWORD PTR DS:[ESI+0BC],ECX
    0093F3CA  |.  8B96 BC000000      MOV EDX,DWORD PTR DS:[ESI+0BC]
    0093F3DD  |.  8986 BC000000      MOV DWORD PTR DS:[ESI+0BC],EAX
    0093F5B4  |.  8B86 BC000000      MOV EAX,DWORD PTR DS:[ESI+0BC]
    0093F5DD  |.  8986 BC000000      MOV DWORD PTR DS:[ESI+0BC],EAX
    00941BE3  |.  8995 BC000000      MOV DWORD PTR SS:[EBP+0BC],EDX
    00941C0F  |.  8985 BC000000      MOV DWORD PTR SS:[EBP+0BC],EAX
    Those starting 0x59 seem like the place to start as that is close to where finance.cpp is referenced.

  10. #85
    ebfatz is offline Social Media Bod
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tapani View Post
    How often does it happen that clubs go bankrupt? Does it happen to major clubs (Championship or above) or just small clubs?

    If nothing else I could whip up something ... like if your clubs is too much in the red, you can no longer pay salaries, and players are released on free transfer (starting with the ones with lowest loyalty).

    Relegation? How would that work? Say that a lower table club in PRM goes bankrupt, and gets relegated. Where would they get relegated? Which club would take its place? That would be chain effect through the whole league!
    The middle paragraph would be awesome. Having to sell off players, with no way of stopping them, to slash the wage bill.

    To answer the question, a few do go into 'administration' (Portsmouth an example) as it is called here in England.
    If and when that happens, the club is deducted 10 points. (Don't know if that can be incorporated. At that point, the club is then bought by a new owner and they carry on.)

    The extreme to that is the club could be 'dissolved' and go out of business (see Glasgow Rangers as an example). They could then be relegated a couple of divisions or out of the league system altogether.
    They are then usually revived with a very slightly different name and start at the bottom of the ladder.
    (Rushden and Diamonds, Darlington, Chester examples here)

  11. #86
    Join Date
    30-01-15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dermotron View Post
    Is there a way to link merchandise and other (sponsorship) to club rep? These are the 2 huge changes since 0102. I can do some research on what a club gets p/a in the game and try work out how it's valued but it's a tiny fraction of the actual money clubs receive. From a random save I have here Man Utd made 20.4m on merchandise in CM (or 50m in todays values) - in real life it was 170m on merchandise and 190m on sponsorship and commercial combined.
    Looking at Man Utd financial annual report for 2014 give somewhat different figures. Total revenue amounts to 433 M, split between :
    - Broadcasting : 136 M
    - Matchday : 108 M
    - Commercial : 189 M, this one being made of sponsorship (136 M), retail, merchandising, licensing (38 M), mobile and content (16 M).

    Source (figures are p.3, additional details p.28).

  12. #87
    Wow... I just saw my interest for the game return after seeing Tapani's posts.

    I have just one question: why the wages in Portugal are so low?

  13. #88
    Join Date
    30-06-14
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    Thanks John Locke, did not pay enough attention to your post earlier.

    Found the merchandising function, and probably going to change it a little. Currently it does not look at the players in a club, and I think having some famous players should increase the merchandising income. At least that is probably the first shot to change (since I dont want to increase merchandising that much for most clubs, but only for the biggest clubs).

    Tried doubling (and some more) the wages and the result is a lot of players (less than world stars) having 150-200k GBP p.w. Wonder if the wages are somewhat right already in the game? At least does not require more than a doubling.

  14. #89
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    Would cap of 180k be ideal? That's about €225k. There are a few but not many earning more than that wage. Maybe even 160k which is €200k. There are maybe 20 footballers on that or more in world football.

    Even at Chelsea these are the top

    Fabregas, Diego Costa 200k
    Hazard 185k
    Terry 175k
    Then there is a gap to Cech on 120k and another gap to Gary Cahill on 90k

    In game with a cap of 160k, all those would be in the top bracket which would probably balance out the fact in real life 4 players are on more. In game there would likely be 6-8 players in the 130-160k bracket.

  15. #90
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    I don't see why there has to be any cap at all.....

    I don't like the limitations the game imposes on ME as a player........... to be honest.

    I'm not one for reality.... I personally don't insist that the game be completely up-to-date and reflecting exactly, as much as is possible, the REAL LIFE stats and what have you......

    I wanna be able to pay 600k p/w if I want to.........

    I understand not everyone on this thread wants that, but i don't like being limited in what i can do, especially if it IS POSSIBLE to actually change it to whatever you want.....???

    Is there a way to take a 'Cap' OFF on transfers and wages, altogether???..... which ironically seems to be the way football is at the moment.......

    The game is old, its well past it's sell by date.. I just want it to be as fun as possible at this stage of playing it for sooooooooooooooooooo long........ and being able to pay players, whatever the hell I want, would be part of the fun, for me....

    Just an opinion of someone who's been playing for 17 years....

  16. #91
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    So all clubs being broke would be more fun is what you are saying?

    The top 6-8 players at a club will earn up to the limit the club will afford, so 7 players on 400k per week is 2.8m per week (on just 7 players, the way it averages out over a squad means that's approx 4.5m per week) or 145m per year . Where is the money to pay those wages to come from? Every club in the division broke after season 1 is what we spent the last 2 years undoing.



    If you want no limit use the tv and prize money editor in flex and make huge changes to those prizes, then you have the ability to pay whatever you want really. The option in theory is there to pay 600k per week if you want.
    Last edited by Dermotron; 05-03-15 at 09:40 PM.

  17. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dermotron View Post
    So all clubs being broke would be more fun is what you are saying?

    Yes, that is exactly what I'm saying, obviously Derm!

  18. #93
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    As a CM player I agree with ed here; I am capable of taking care of my club's finances -- just let me. With the experimental wage increase we have the bizarre situation that I can start a new game with Barcelona, and being unable to offer a contract to the star players (read: Messi). Not even Barca is allowed to pay enough in salaries.

    However in network games, wage and transfer caps are necessary. Having seen the following many times: someone comes in to a game, ruins his club by splashing all his money on some mediocre players, and when the club is not performing -- he never shows up again.

    And realistically: I don't think any club gives a new manager (who has never managed a club) completely free hands with the economy. But if that manager has stayed at the club for years, having improved on the finances and performed well on the pitch -- trust has been earned -- and limits could be softened.

  19. #94
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    Have a look at the Data Updates pre March 2014, pretty much every single club is broke after 1 season. Yes they get a boost from their tv money and season ticket money but by the end of season 2 nearly every club is broke. Its all well and good saying that you can manage your own club but if you are a top club and no other club has money, how and who do you offload your top earners to when trying to reduce the wage bill and do the managing part? The main issue is never your own club anyhow, its the clubs around you. The AI will just spend everything to the limit they can afford at a given time irrespective of the long term financial problems it causes.

    The finances of a club are tied to the economies within the game, none more so than wages. So if a league goes from a combined 15m prize and tv money to 150m, the clubs adjust on the same scale e.g. Top clubs go from paying a top wage of 80k to 800k and clubs start upgrading contracts to match. Of course all those contracts come with a signing in fee too. It was something I noticed using JL's prize money app. The problem there is all the other elements stay the same. Maybe scaled to match is not an issue. Dortmund are a perfect example of this happening in game, huge weekly incomes from match day ticket sales so the spend accordingly and wages are up their with the very best. In real life they are prudent with their expenditure on the most part.

    From a realistic perspective clubs should scale up endlessly like they do in real life, well the bigger clubs have been, but they are doing so by getting a higher percentage of the money available year on year whether that be from tv, merchandising or sponsorship, can globalisation be accounted for in the game? Even taking the likes of Middle Eastern and Chinese clubs with their almost unlimited bankrolls don't pay the wages you'd expect (with Dario Conca being the one ludicrous exception)

    Anyhow, I'm all for improving and amending the financial aspects of the game. Returning to the dark days of broke EPL clubs in game when they are saturated in tv money in real life doesn't appeal from either a playability or realism perspective

  20. #95
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    the wage cap could be related to the club reputation, that is basically what happens in real life.

    this way when a club gets a higher rep they are allowed to offer more money, and when their rep goes down they can't offer that money anymore, and the players will go away.

    about this, another big flaw of the game is that players don't ask for the money they would ''deserve'' or real life players would ask for.
    often, specially when playing in the future with new generations of players, thay have low reps albeit having played for top clubs for a few years, being happy with the little money they earn.
    and nothing is more unrelistic....

    in real life when a player has had a good season wants more money, and if the club doesn't or can't satisfy him, he soon asks to be sold.

    if the request of money could be related to the reputation of the players (world reputation is probably the best option) i think it would be great

  21. #96
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    Good points derm and milo.

    Milo, salary and valuation are already bound to reputation (afaik). Maybe what you describe is another flawed part of regens in the game: the next generation does not achieve high enough reps as the previous one.
    When testing my newgen algorithm, I also logged reputations of players. Maybe I should take a look at reputation development tomorrow..

  22. #97
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    After the first generation retires, it seems like players' reputations do not reach up to the same levels as they are when starting a new game.

    The top players are of the same levels, but the large bulk in the middle is lower after one "generation". They do not keep sinking, but stay the same during subsequent generations.

    So now I need a way/reason to increase reputations of average players. Ideas welcome :-)

  23. #98
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    Is that because a lot of players regenerate outside the top clubs and assume a rep of the new club? So starting from a rep of 40 (2000) a player rarely going to be reaching 170 (8500) unless moving to a big club early.

    Is it possible to tie the regenerated players reps to club rep? So a player regens at a club with a rep of 8, his starting CR and WR are 80 (Club Rep x 10). Could be problematic if crap players also have those reps

  24. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dermotron View Post
    Is it possible to tie the regenerated players reps to club rep? So a player regens at a club with a rep of 8, his starting CR and WR are 80 (Club Rep x 10). Could be problematic if crap players also have those reps
    if we could have an average value between club rep x5 and CA would be fine in my opinion, for example a player with 100 CA generated at a club with reputation 15 would be: (100+75)/2 = 88 WR.

    i have done this table to show in details (if the values are too high we could use club rep x4 or lower):

    Spoiler!

  25. #100
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    also, and i know someone may not agree, regens shouldn't be unattached when created, basically all the youngsters, even the worst, belong to a club in real life.
    it's not as it happens in films where you can find out the new pel while playing in his backyard just for fun

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