View Poll Results: How should Brits vote in the referendum on 23rd June?

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  • Stay in the union

    14 40.00%
  • Leave the union

    16 45.71%
  • Don't know

    2 5.71%
  • Don't care

    3 8.57%
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Thread: UK Politics

  1. #76

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    It all boils down to one thing. Whatever the banks want and is best for the banks will be the most forceful opinion

  2. #77
    316'sRegen Unattached
    I can see that your mind is made up with the comment about being angry with your friends if they had a different view from yours.
    (more guardian articles?)

    That one is actually quite interesting and those are the type of immigrants we are looking for, skilled workers or highly educated graduates. It does go on to say that university degree level people end up working as baristas etc and the qualified people coming here hurts their own country.

    Kieser has intrical knowledge of trading stocks and market behaviour, he wrote some of the first algorithms for computerised trading, I know that he is an extravagant character on his show, but that doesn't mean he knows nothing about economics. The whole thing about "experts" though like I said, there is no such thing as an expert on this subject, well maybe someone in a former soviet country could be well placed to discuss it but the people both sides put forward as "experts" can be silly at times.

    My mind too is made up it's probably clear to see, but don't get me wrong, I do appreciate everyone's view and actually enjoy trying to look at things from more than one angle.
    It is a topic with thousands of angles and I think it's good to at least discuss some of them.

  3. #78

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    Yeah for sure I think for this referendum (and the Scottish independence referendum before it) that most people will vote based on gut feeling or personal belief, not statistics and facts, so there's not a lot of point trying to convince people anyway! As long as people stay civil then it should be an interesting discussion too.

    Hey, the Guardian may be trendy Islington Socialist when it comes to culture and recipes (oh god, so much kale...) and so on, but their stats reporting is pretty good (just compare the detail in their article to that in the Independent) Besides, I went for the Independent and the FT first!

  4. #79
    Craig Forrest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 316'sRegen View Post
    Wow.

    Everyone should have the same homogonised culture, customs, food, drink, same religion, same language?
    I wouldn't want to go on holiday anywhere in that world, everything the same thing boring as fuck


    Aren't you guys proud of your own country and heritage/history/culture?


    Trying to pretend there are no differences between different people is crazy, Accepting peoples differences and trying to work with them is really the best we can try and do.


    This is super relevant in Europe which has many amazing cultures, strong nations that this EU wants to crush into one giant land mass, devoid of character or personality
    When did I say any of that? Of course people are different.... but arbitrary divisions force us apart.... I cherish diversity.... I really only date women from other cultures so I can expand my knowledge..... I'm more of a "all humans working towards the same goal of peace and prosperity" kind of idealist..... I never said anything about a homogeneous group all speaking the same language and having the same customs...

  5. #80
    316'sRegen Unattached


    Quote Originally Posted by Craig Forrest View Post
    I'm still a firm believer that all this talk of countries and nations is ridiculous.... call me idealistic, but I think we should all be part of one thing, not arbitrarily separated into countries and regions
    Not the exact words but countries and nations are ridiculous? We should all be part of one thing? You knew I would react to that Craig

    Countries weren't created arbitrarily mate, there is a unique history and culture behind each one, conquest, politics, revolution, art, history, music, invention, all sorts of heritage and interesting culture.
    People around the world are proud of their countries. I thought you were suggesting that we should get rid of all borders and countries (it does kind of look like that)

    The working together bit I can get on board with, in fact that was my reply!
    Better diplomacy between countries is something we agree needs to happen.

    But the nation state will prevail

    At least until

    Last edited by 316'sRegen; 08-06-16 at 04:15 PM.

  6. #81
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    Sure.... if the aliens come, hopefully we'll all put aside our petty differences and work together

  7. #82

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    Quote Originally Posted by 316'sRegen View Post
    Wow.

    Everyone should have the same homogonised culture, customs, food, drink, same religion, same language?
    I wouldn't want to go on holiday anywhere in that world, everything the same thing boring as fuck
    'Homogonised culture' is already here. It's in the top 40, it's in the box office, it's in fashion magazines, it's got the views on youtube, the likes on facebook, the retweets on twitter. It's always been here. You can chose to focus on it for good or bad. I don't focus on it at all. I've the music I like/play, I've the movies I like, the shows, the books, cm0102...
    And sometimes my likes even cross paths with the homogonised culture. As for customs, food, drink & language, they are purely based on where you are born for the most part and for others where their parents were born. If a Spaniard and German couple have a child, what culture should it be brought up with?

    Aren't you guys proud of your own country and heritage/history/culture?
    Jumping on the glory of history/ancestors. What makes it yours(rhetorical)? What about the negative parts of heritage/history/culture? Chose to ignore? Or acknowledge them and get embarrassed/humbled?


    Trying to pretend there are no differences between different people is crazy, Accepting peoples differences and trying to work with them is really the best we can try and do.
    There are differences, but we are not all that different. The world is more connected now than it ever was. English, French and Japanese architects designing buildings in countries that aren't their native lands. Supermarkets doing Spanish/Greek/Bavarian themed weeks. The worldwideweb in your pocket.

    This is super relevant in Europe which has many amazing cultures, strong nations that this EU wants to crush into one giant land mass, devoid of character or personality
    I have more of a beef with the Irish government fucking up the island I live on than any of the European bureaucrats.

    I'm an Irishman that doesn't practice the religion of my youth. I don't drink. I'm a pacifist. I don't follow my county's hurling or football team. It's not the land I was born that defines me, it's the people I've met (friends, family, randomers etc.), the experiences I've had (aural/visual/physical etc.) I'm amazed by the structues the Celts, Egyptians, Aztec, Romans, Incas etc. built, that stand today. Humanity has evolved but sometimes tribalism comes to the forefront.

    A bit of a longwinded post... sorry.

  8. #83

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    Newspapers never lie - True Story

    Dont believe everything you read in the papers. Who is to say they werent paid big lumps of cash to print things in favour of staying or indeed leaving?

    Trust your gut instinct, 90% of the time it will be right.

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by EL-TOPPO View Post

    Trust your gut instinct, 90% of the time it will be right.
    Where did you read that?

  10. #85
    316'sRegen Unattached
    longwinded posts are the best

    i have a few points to that but hate typing on this vita.


    Where did you read that you crack me up CF!

  11. #86

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    USA isnt our biggest trade power, we deal something like 260 million with Europe and the USA is considerably less.

  12. #87

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    If we leave and our country goes downhill into another recession then I will be blaming the people who voted leave for it and I will also be looking to get out of this country and onto the mainland.

  13. #88

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ste117 View Post
    If we leave and our country goes downhill into another recession then I will be blaming the people who voted leave for it and I will also be looking to get out of this country and onto the mainland.
    I thought you lived in England?

  14. #89
    316'sRegen Unattached
    Quote Originally Posted by Ste117 View Post
    USA isnt our biggest trade power, we deal something like 260 million with Europe and the USA is considerably less.
    I think you meant Billions, but have a look at this list, USA is the top country.
    http://www.worldstopexports.com/unit...port-partners/
    I guess if you are counting EU as a country (which it isn't) then it would be the top trader (exports) but when we leave the EU France aren't going to stick two fingers up and ban our products
    Neither will Germany or any of the other partners in EU, WHY? because we import more than we export. My point was that EU aren't the be all and end all, nor will trade cease upon us leaving.

    I was surprised at how high China was in that list as well, and also Switzerland (who aren't EU) come in at 3rd.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ste117
    If we leave and our country goes downhill into another recession then I will be blaming the people who voted leave for it and I will also be looking to get out of this country and onto the mainland.
    The mainland!
    Once again: EUROPE IS NOT A SINGLE COUNTRY.

    I think you have been listening to government propaganda too much Ste. Sounds exactly like what Osborne was saying on the Andrew Neill interview (available on BBC iPlayer)
    Remember, a referendum is for the population as a whole to make a decision, we have to live with whatever everyone decides, that's democracy in it's purest form.

  15. #90
    316'sRegen Unattached
    Erk:

    You make me a little sad
    Your place of birth doesn't have to define you mate but you seem to have totally rejected your local community.

    I sympathise in some ways because I hated the North of the island just as much because when I was younger, everything was defined by what "side" you were on. Through the years this has faded a lot, it hasn't completely disappeared but I do feel more proud now of the country I'm from because we have dragged ourselves out of the darkness and decided we want to be a normal country. We now have the odyssey arena and international stars come here (wouldn't have happened in the 80s)

    For some people it could be a pride that their ancestry goes back to the original settling/founding/formation of a country, they feel proud that their roots are deep.
    For some it is stories of how their grandparents fought in wars to secure their freedom.
    Indeed, there is a rich history of Ireland that has just celebrated its centenary at Easter there.
    Yes there are dark eras in history also as you say but take my example, yes we killed each other for years in Northern Ireland and we don't try to forget that, but we sorted it out and decided that had to stop, that's something to remember with pride.

    When I mentioned homogenised culture I didn't just mean mainstream culture, which is what you are referring to (Western culture pretty much) but I do agree that it is already being done. 2 NFL league matches a year played at Wembley is a good example of this. I know there is mainstream culture, that's fine, it's just the most popular stuff. I just worry that if there are no borders, everything is assimilated into one, then we lose some of the individuality and character of the regional areas.

    The food and drink thing yes it's about where you are born, but it's also about some genius hundreds of years ago that figured out this area is perfect for growing(insert ingredient) or perfected a process for creating some product and handed down the recipe and tradition for generations, it's something to savour and enjoy and to be proud of. (also something to sell ££)

    What I mean is that each little country across the planet has it's own cultures, traditions and habits.
    Spanish siesta, Italians kiss on each cheek, Brazilian carnivals, Japanese honour code, Octberfest, the list s endless but I love this about the world everywhere as it's own specialty r it's own thing whatever it may be.

    You may not be proud of your place, and I don't know why because it's amazing, but most people are.

  16. #91

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    It's not that I don't feel proud... I'll be shouting on the Boys in Green!

    I could talk about the 100 years as a Republic or I could give out about the 800 years of oppression. I wasnt oppressed so why would I give out about the latter. And how long were we a Republic before we joined another union?

    We're supposed to learn from history and for the most part I don't think we have. Begrudgery, enforcing opinions/beliefs on others, land theft, resource theft etc. The current war is a cultural one. How can something deemed a positive cause so much death and chaos?

    Look at the finer points of humanity and be proud of those. Humans can adapt, survive, forgive, create,educate, learn...

  17. #92

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  18. #93

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    Courtesy of Anthony Preece posted on the BREXIT 2016 - send the message)


    Do you want facts to throw at the Remainiacs? They tell us we will suffer economically if we leave, our industries will suffer .... Well read this!
    OK,.. here's a short list of financial and industrial FUBARs from the EU then,..
    Cadbury moved factory to Poland 2011 with EU grant.
    Ford Transit moved to Turkey 2013 with EU grant.
    Jaguar Land Rover has recently agreed to build a new plant in Slovakia with EU grant, owned by Tata, the same company who have trashed our steel works and emptied the workers pension funds.
    Peugeot closed its Ryton (was Rootes Group) plant and moved production to Slovakia with EU grant.
    British Army's new Ajax fighting vehicles to be built in SPAIN using SWEDISH steel at the request of the EU to support jobs in Spain with EU grant, rather than Wales.
    Dyson gone to Malaysia, with an EU loan.
    Crown Closures, Bournemouth (Was METAL BOX), gone to Poland with EU grant, once employed 1,200.
    M&S manufacturing gone to far east with EU loan.
    Hornby models gone. In fact all toys and models now gone from UK along with the patents all with with EU grants.
    Gillette gone to eastern Europe with EU grant.
    Texas Instruments Greenock gone to Germany with EU grant.
    Indesit at Bodelwyddan Wales gone with EU grant.
    Sekisui Alveo said production at its Merthyr Tydfil Industrial Park foam plant will relocate production to Roermond in the Netherlands, with EU funding.
    Hoover Merthyr factory moved out of UK to Czech Republic and the Far East by Italian company Candy with EU backing.
    ICI integration into Holland’s AkzoNobel with EU bank loan and within days of the merger, several factories in the UK, were closed, eliminating 3,500 jobs
    Boots sold to Italians Stefano Pessina who have based their HQ in Switzerland to avoid tax to the tune of £80 million a year, using an EU loan for the purchase.
    JDS Uniphase run by two Dutch men, bought up companies in the UK with £20 million in EU 'regeneration' grants, created a pollution nightmare and just closed it all down leaving 1,200 out of work and an environmental clean-up paid for by the UK tax-payer. They also raided the pension fund and drained it dry.
    UK airports are owned by a Spanish company.
    Scottish Power is owned by a Spanish company.
    Most London buses are run by Spanish and German companies.
    The Hinkley Point C nuclear power station to be built by French company EDF, part owned by the French government, using cheap Chinese steel that has catastrophically failed in other nuclear installations. Now EDF say the costs will be double or more and it will be very late even if it does come online.
    Swindon was once our producer of rail locomotives and rolling stock. Not any more, it's Bombardier in Derby and due to their losses in the aviation market, that could see the end of the British railways manufacturing altogether even though Bombardier had EU grants to keep Derby going which they diverted to their loss-making aviation side in Canada.
    39% of British invention patents have been passed to foreign companies, many of them in the EU
    The Mini cars that Cameron stood in front of as an example of British engineering, are built by BMW mostly in Holland and Austria. His campaign bus was made in Germany even though we have Plaxton, Optare, Bluebird, Dennis etc., in the UK. The bicycle for the Greens was made in the far east, not by Raleigh UK but then they are probably going to move to the Netherlands too as they have said recently.
    Anyone who thinks the EU is good for British industry or any other business simply hasn't paid attention to what has been systematically asset-stripped from the UK. Name me one major technology company still running in the UK, I used to contract out to many, then the work just dried up as they were sold off to companies from France, Germany, Holland, Belgium, etc., and now we don't even teach electronic technology for technicians any more, due to EU regulations.
    I haven't detailed our non-existent fishing industry the EU paid to destroy, nor the farmers being paid NOT to produce food they could sell for more than they get paid to do nothing, don't even go there.
    I haven't mentioned what it costs us to be asset-stripped like this, nor have I mentioned immigration, nor the risk to our security if control of our armed forces is passed to Brussels or Germany.
    Find something that's gone the other way, I've looked and I just can't. If you think the EU is a good idea,
    1/ You haven't read the party manifesto of The European Peoples' Party.
    2/ You haven't had to deal with EU petty bureaucracy tearing your business down.
    3/ You don't think it matters.
    Pete Giles
    23 June, VOTE LEAVE!

  19. #94
    316'sRegen Unattached
    43% of the vote each for stay and leave

    The poll will be open until this Friday 17th June.

  20. #95

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    That's one helluva list but does it not reek of propaganda?

    It's a result of capitalism.

    How many people buy stuff off the internet vs bricks and mortar because it's cheaper? We all buy stuff cheaper. We demand stuff cheaper. And in turn companies make it cheaper by upping sticks. That won't change with a Yes or No vote and it would have happened, EU or not.

  21. #96
    316'sRegen Unattached
    I think his point was that the EU gave grants and loans to help this happen.

  22. #97
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    EU gave grants and loans for lots of things in the UK too.... I think it probably works both ways.... I've read many an article recently about programs funded by EU money that will vanish if the UK leaves... because you know the government won't start handing over cash to help continue all the defunded programs

  23. #98

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    It's pointless trying to form an opinion based on the two campaigns, because they are both full of such rubbish.

    I'm voting remain - I don't really see how leaving will benefit either me or the country as a whole. Leaving could be the first step towards the break up of the UK, as the Scotland referendum issue is likely to raise its head again.

  24. #99
    316'sRegen Unattached
    Maybe there will be seperate governments for the UK countries, sure we all have our own parliaments already, but the partnership aspect of the UK wouldn't ever break up i don't think.

    People think about in terms of "breaking up" but I see it as it's better to have your government as close to you as possible so you can keep them honest. Or at least try to

  25. #100

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    The only positive would be if a new state, North England, broke away from those southern toffs

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