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Thread: CM 01/02: 10 years of work and editing

  1. #226
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    This weekend might turn out to be the greatest weekend of the year :-)

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  3. #227
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    How come I've never noticed this topic before? Tremendous job, man!

    Since you said a new version would be released this weekend, I'll wait for it. If I spot anything, I'll let you know. I guess I'll test this with a Tapanified 3.9.68 version, has anyone encountered any issues using this DB with this setup so far?

    And indeed Felgueiras were in the Portuguese Second Division in 01/02. What was the team in their place in the ODB? Was it Marco?
    Last edited by doom_master; 14-04-18 at 09:04 PM.

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    I get that you greatly increased Cristiano Ronaldo's PA, since he's the beast we all came to know, but how come he is such a beast right off the bat? He was 16 years old in 2001, and he starts off as possibly Sporting's best player, despite being 16 years old



    The same goes for Messi.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Luessenhoff View Post
    you are a cm0102 Legend Luessenhoff!

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  10. #231
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    Thank you! great work!!!

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  12. #232
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    @ doom_master:

    Well, as I usually say: don't open the editor and start judging, but start playing instead - more than once and more than just one season - and then judge.
    The editor is only the tool required to create the game experience, it is not to be equated with the in-game experience itself. That screenshot you posted doesn't say that much at all, if you get what I mean.
    You could create a player with fantastic attributes and likewise CA, only to be very dissapointed by his performances, or the other way around.

    Ronaldo may already look like a semi-beast at the start, he'll only become the total killer after a season or 2-3 though. Now, I do agree that he looks very much over-developed at such a tender age and he often gets to play a number of matches in the first season for Sporting (which didn't happen in reality), but tweaking him has been a lenghty process and unfortunately there's a very fine line between a young future W.O.R.L.D. C.L.A.S.S. player living up to his full potential on one hand, and the same player underperforming forever on the other hand. Earlier versions of him (with less impressive starting attributes) all proved unsatisfactory. Tried many different approaches but this one is the one I'm the most satisfied with.

    He is one of the only players, if not the only one, that, once fully developed, can nearly always guarantee you a 1 goal per match ratio or more in a traditional 4-4-2. Changing his settings or reputation even in the slightest way will make his performances deteriorate. The way he has been programmed now is a golden combination that delivers. I think he is a good compromise between a guaranteed world class attacker and a player that still needs to develop somewhat in order to reach his full potential. I readily admit that ideally, he should have been somewhat less imposing at the start, but I haven't succeeded in doing that, without seriously compromising his future performances. I'm not gonna try again, I've done enough so this will be it. Also see my post on him of 09-06-17, 10:25 AM in this thread:

    On Ronaldo: I think he is perfect the way he is now. He may look overpowered at that age at the start of the game but someone that would go on to attain what he has should not come without some magical starting ability. I did take into account his frail physique when he was younger, he will have to work his strength up through hard work, and he definitely will. One thing I did do though was making him a 100% striker (forward) from the start whereas he started out as a right attacking midfielder in the early days of his career. The problem with this game is that the game mechanics will almost always make managers prefer to play players that are capable of being midfielders and attackers … - even when they are far less adept at being midfielder - exclusively in midfield. That way he will never reach his ridiculous goalscoring statistics. But if a player is technically only a striker, but able to play on either side of the field (left, centre and right) AND if he is ridiculously good, he will still be placed in a more midfield-oriented position from time to time, as is the case with Ronaldo. But given his insatiable hunger for goals and fame, you can say his natural position is to play upfront, as his career has proved. The way this game works comes with its limitations, which means at times certain choices have to be made that are not 100% ideal, but my construction of Ronaldo has been carefully thought-out. Trust me, I know what I’m doing.

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  14. #233
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    Got it Thanks for the answer, and great job!

    Btw, using 3.9.68 I also ran into an error when selecting the Swedish Second Division, as other users did. Other than that, with every league but that one selected, I ran two seasons without any problems.

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    Quote Originally Posted by doom_master View Post
    Got it Thanks for the answer, and great job!

    Btw, using 3.9.68 I also ran into an error when selecting the Swedish Second Division, as other users did. Other than that, with every league but that one selected, I ran two seasons without any problems.
    Like you mentioned, I encountered the same problem when loading up all leagues on the 3.9.68 Tapanified version of the game, and just unselecting the Swedish Second Divison solved the problem. My previous save lasted 10+ seasons without crashes or bugs. On 3.9.65 I could select all leagues without problems however, the game also never crashed. Once I had a save of over 100 seasons, so I if had the choice, I would never go to 3.9.68 if I didn't have to.

    Going to start a new save now, with the new update ofcourse, which I believe should have it's own thread in the Download section by now. Luessenhoff's work is absolutely amazing, but too many people don't know about it because it is pretty well hidden here. If CM01-02 is the best game of the series, then the Luessenhof-data makes for the best version of that game. It made the game nearly perfect, within it's own limitations ofcourse, but 100's times better than the ODB.

    Thank you, Luessenhoff!

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  17. #235
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    Amazing update mate! Will certainly play this one as I'm an ODB hardcore fan so this is heaven for me

    One thing though: I was browsing through some players and came to Edgar Davids from Juventus. He has remarkable low technique (15) to start with which I think is a bit unfair. He was a typical street soccer player who participated in many tournaments and had his own street soccer tour on YouTube. His technique was fabulous and deserves a higher value than the 15 you're giving him. It's nothing big, but just happened to raise an eyebrow for me!
    Go check out my YouTube channel with lots of CM 01-02 related video's!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rubinja View Post
    Like you mentioned, I encountered the same problem when loading up all leagues on the 3.9.68 Tapanified version of the game, and just unselecting the Swedish Second Divison solved the problem. My previous save lasted 10+ seasons without crashes or bugs. On 3.9.65 I could select all leagues without problems however, the game also never crashed. Once I had a save of over 100 seasons, so I if had the choice, I would never go to 3.9.68 if I didn't have to.

    Going to start a new save now, with the new update ofcourse, which I believe should have it's own thread in the Download section by now. Luessenhoff's work is absolutely amazing, but too many people don't know about it because it is pretty well hidden here. If CM01-02 is the best game of the series, then the Luessenhof-data makes for the best version of that game. It made the game nearly perfect, within it's own limitations ofcourse, but 100's times better than the ODB.

    Thank you, Luessenhoff!
    I second this!

  19. #237
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    Luessenhoff how do you feel about giving high stamina to players which had a big career, like Totti, Giggs or Romario? They played till 40 yo
    They will be more likely to retire later.
    I believe Giggs have higher stamina as default, was just a example.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GFRay View Post
    Amazing update mate! Will certainly play this one as I'm an ODB hardcore fan so this is heaven for me

    One thing though: I was browsing through some players and came to Edgar Davids from Juventus. He has remarkable low technique (15) to start with which I think is a bit unfair. He was a typical street soccer player who participated in many tournaments and had his own street soccer tour on YouTube. His technique was fabulous and deserves a higher value than the 15 you're giving him. It's nothing big, but just happened to raise an eyebrow for me!
    As for Davids, I don't remember whether he has been edited or if it's still the ODB original player, but his technique will rapidly increase to 18, so in-game I don't consider his technique to be too low. The 15 to start with may have had to do with his ban at that time (inactive for a couple of months due to an alleged (nandrolon?) drug abuse). Anyway, Davids is anything but an underperformer... top notch player who can hold down a first team place at any club.

    Quote Originally Posted by bruebous View Post
    Luessenhoff how do you feel about giving high stamina to players which had a big career, like Totti, Giggs or Romario? They played till 40 yo
    They will be more likely to retire later.
    I believe Giggs have higher stamina as default, was just a example.
    I used to think that way too (a very long time ago when I had less experience) but increasing someones stamina doesn't prolong his career (by much). Been there, done that, doesn't work.
    Even natural fitness is a tricky one. Generally one can say that the higher this value, the less likely it is he will retire at a young age. But as is often the case in this game, there are a lot of but's ...
    From my experience I can tell that increasing the stamina of an old player to the max will lead to "overkill" and a deterioration in performances, which will make him retire even sooner.
    The game mechanics don't allow a player of 35 or 36 to have a 20 in certain regards, such as acceleration or stamina. It will be downgraded automatically when you start a game, and the impact on his other attributes will be negative.
    There is no magic trick to make a player reach the age of 40. The presence of some abilities will give him a push in that direction, but it's very much influenced by the circumstances too.
    --> is a he still performing well and can he hold down a first team place? Even if the answer is yes, he may still announce his retirement "out of the blue".

    "I want him to play up to a very high age so I'll just set his stamina to 20" ... it doesn't work that way.
    Last edited by Luessenhoff; 28-04-18 at 03:14 PM.

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  22. #239
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    Hi Luessenhoff

    http://www.national-football-teams.com/statistics.html (This is a great website, where you can find all the players year-by-year statistics. I hope it will help you to fill a lot of missing "player history lines"). And I would like to recommend Javier Portillo, who was a great talent around 2001. Besides there is a little mistake at Fiorentina rival clubs, and I think, that Jürgen Klopp attributes needs some editing. Sorry for my poor english...

    Thank you for this great update!

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    Quote Originally Posted by luviall View Post
    Hi Luessenhoff

    http://www.national-football-teams.com/statistics.html (This is a great website, where you can find all the players year-by-year statistics. I hope it will help you to fill a lot of missing "player history lines"). And I would like to recommend Javier Portillo, who was a great talent around 2001. Besides there is a little mistake at Fiorentina rival clubs, and I think, that Jürgen Klopp attributes needs some editing. Sorry for my poor english...

    Thank you for this great update!
    Hi Luviall. Thanks for informing me the Fiorentina issue. Obviously I didn't set it to Inter Bratislava, lol. These errors sometimes occur when you endlessly edit and save the database.
    On Portillo: I was going to say "I know, but there's no space at Real for him". There's the 50 player squad limitation, as said earlier in this thread.
    Now, in fact Real Madrid don't have 50 players in their squad, but if you add another player Camacho's loan (from Zaragoza to Real Madrid B) cannot take place...
    Anyway, I understand that Portillo would be a nice addition, and one of the 'useless' players in Real Madrid B could perhaps be kicked out in order to create space for him.

    I'll take care of it, I've been very busy since posting the last update again, meanwhile many hundreds of improvements have been done.

    Oh yes, and I know National Football Teams ...

    Stay tuned, cause there is more to come.

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  25. #241
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    There is actually a 48 player limit for clubs with a B team. This total includes loans in

    You can actually add 50 to A & B in game but an player over the 48 barrier will be set to free when the game loads

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  27. #242
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dermotron View Post
    There is actually a 48 player limit for clubs with a B team. This total includes loans in

    You can actually add 50 to A & B in game but an player over the 48 barrier will be set to free when the game loads
    Thanks for having clarified that Dermotron, I wasn’t fully aware of that, even when I remember being baffled at why some players of the B-squads in Portugal and Spain were without a club at the start of the game. Once again this demonstrates that the way things are portrayed in the editor isn’t always a reliable reflection of the in-game situation.

    Editing definitely comes with its inconveniences, and I’ve experienced lots of them. One of the most frequent errors is a player being stripped of his first name, or more rarely, complete name, after a save. If it’s only the first name it can take a while before you actually notice. It strikes me that this mostly happens to players of low-profile countries, as if the game wanted to “save some space” by reducing the data of what it deems ‘insignificant’. Annoying problem. It doesn’t occur all too often, but if you’re editing on an almost daily basis like me … it is not that exceptional. It has made me very wary each time I’ve completed a save. More rarely, a player’s CA or PA can get fucked up to the extreme (either being set to a very low value or to 200).

  28. #243
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    If you delete a First, Second or Common name from the tabs of the same name, you delete (or change) all the players, staff and referees with that name e.g. if you deleted John by mistake everyone called John would load with a blank First name and just their Second name (and Common name if they had one) - John O'Shea would just be O'Shea

    I think this DB is .68 based but if it is .60 I'd highly recommend using the Editor from .68 as it's far better (it works on CM0001 and CM9900 also)

  29. #244
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dermotron View Post
    If you delete a First, Second or Common name from the tabs of the same name, you delete (or change) all the players, staff and referees with that name e.g. if you deleted John by mistake everyone called John would load with a blank First name and just their Second name (and Common name if they had one) - John O'Shea would just be O'Shea

    I think this DB is .68 based but if it is .60 I'd highly recommend using the Editor from .68 as it's far better (it works on CM0001 and CM9900 also)
    I'm pretty sure that's not the case here, while having literally changed many thousands of players' names, the issue with deleted names only occurs sporadically. I should mention that I am only talking about the 'staff' subdivision in the editor, I don't touch the 'first names' & 'second names' menus directly (you know, the list where you can view which names appear in which countries and how many people have that name over there). They

    Another rare issue I've come across several times is the fact that some players pre-set injuries inexplicably get deleted, without having ever touched the player again, so I definitely didn't do anything that would have undone the particular setting. Vitor Baia's pre-set injury sometimes gets 'washed away' in the database. It has happened 3 times. If you take into account that I easily overwrite 30 times a week after having done new edits, you can say it doesn't happen very often.

    The only explanation I can think of is, that sometimes saves are not 100% succesfully completed...

    Also worth mentioning is the fact that the editor will sometimes re-insert a player's ODB club preferences. Fabio Paim had the excellent suggestion to remove Real Madrid from Totti's favourite clubs ... which I did, only to find out that a couple dozens of database saves later, 'Real Madrid' had re-emerged in Totti's settings.

    Weird, very weird.

  30. #245
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luessenhoff View Post
    As for Davids, I don't remember whether he has been edited or if it's still the ODB original player, but his technique will rapidly increase to 18, so in-game I don't consider his technique to be too low. The 15 to start with may have had to do with his ban at that time (inactive for a couple of months due to an alleged (nandrolon?) drug abuse). Anyway, Davids is anything but an underperformer... top notch player who can hold down a first team place at any club.



    I used to think that way too (a very long time ago when I had less experience) but increasing someones stamina doesn't prolong his career (by much). Been there, done that, doesn't work.
    Even natural fitness is a tricky one. Generally one can say that the higher this value, the less likely it is he will retire at a young age. But as is often the case in this game, there are a lot of but's ...
    From my experience I can tell that increasing the stamina of an old player to the max will lead to "overkill" and a deterioration in performances, which will make him retire even sooner.
    The game mechanics don't allow a player of 35 or 36 to have a 20 in certain regards, such as acceleration or stamina. It will be downgraded automatically when you start a game, and the impact on his other attributes will be negative.
    There is no magic trick to make a player reach the age of 40. The presence of some abilities will give him a push in that direction, but it's very much influenced by the circumstances too.
    --> is a he still performing well and can he hold down a first team place? Even if the answer is yes, he may still announce his retirement "out of the blue".

    "I want him to play up to a very high age so I'll just set his stamina to 20" ... it doesn't work that way.
    I remember lining Tombolini up to 44 yo. Also lined field players like Maldini (43 yo) and Cafú (42 yo) or even OBD Shevchenko (41 yo) in some saves with pretty good ratings.

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    First of all, I apologize if I already asked about this, I can not remember if I wanted to do it, and did, or wanted and forgot.

    Regarding Aimo Diana, shouldn't he be at Parma. I know you said you used players who transferred before the starting game date ( Hence Jaap Stam at United.. you should switch his squad number back to his United's six btw) but if internet is right, he moved to Parma on 1st July 2001, Again this is based on transfermarkt and could be wrong. Also there is Brazilian player at Dortmund, Evanilson if I remembered the name, who is scheduled to transfer to Parma in 2003, but in reality that transfer never happened, so you might want to remove it.

    Second thank you for this awesome stuff.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Telcontar View Post
    First of all, I apologize if I already asked about this, I can not remember if I wanted to do it, and did, or wanted and forgot.

    Regarding Aimo Diana, shouldn't he be at Parma. I know you said you used players who transferred before the starting game date ( Hence Jaap Stam at United.. you should switch his squad number back to his United's six btw) but if internet is right, he moved to Parma on 1st July 2001, Again this is based on transfermarkt and could be wrong. Also there is Brazilian player at Dortmund, Evanilson if I remembered the name, who is scheduled to transfer to Parma in 2003, but in reality that transfer never happened, so you might want to remove it.

    Second thank you for this awesome stuff.
    Thanks for your reply, Telcontar.

    Now, let me tell you one thing: NEVER ... but I really mean NEVER ... trust ... transfermarkt when it comes to transfer dates. 1st july is the almighty date there :p

    Do you remember César Sampaio as one of the notorious free players in the ODB? Well, even in october 2001 he was still at Deportivo ... transfermarkt will indicate a transfer to Corinthians on ... go figure ... 1st july. :p
    Just one example Needless to say, there are many bad date to be found on the internet.

    I know the Evanilson case ... studied it long ago. He is only one out of many complicated Italian league "bookkeeping tricks". Officially property of Parma, loaned back to Dortmund and never ever wearing a Parma shirt. Think I decided to keep it the way it was in the ODB in that particular case, in large part because the transfer to Parma will often fail due to the latter not having enough money or having a 50-men squad.

    Will set Stam's squad number back to 6 at United, good point. (Though he won't stay there long usually as Ferguson and Stam profoundly disliked each other at that time... you can usually acquire him quite cheaply, that's a tip )

    Btw, soon enough, I'll post the newer, improved database.
    Stay tuned.

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  34. #248
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    While we are at it, I have .. well something that is neither advice, nor question, nor input but.. stay with me for a while.

    I usually use CMExplorer and SavedGame editor when I start a new game. The reason why I am doing this, is that I noticed some ~20 years ago when I started playing CM, and was a noob, that game tends to do this. We all (or most of us) know that -2 PA means 150-200, and -1 means up to 150 PA, 0 gets mostly random, usually low numbers. But not only sometimes the game randomizes this, so that some player with -1 get above 150, and some with -2 get below. I never figured out if this was bug, or WAD used to simulate players never fulfilling their potential. I also noticed that, although very, very rarely, a player with set CA/PA values could have them randomized, but this is very rare. Much more often it happens that a player that hes, let us use an example, CA 125 and PA 190, gets generated with CA and PA equal at 125, ie in that save, he can not advance very much because he already reaches his max PA. Never figured out which one of those is WAD, which are bugs. Maybe they put in random factor to make thins a bit unpredictable.. or game requires certain amount of players to have certain level, or is it tied to players nationality...

    Just wanted to share this, I assume most of the experienced players already know this, but felt like sharing it, cause it might help someone with editing database. I know it makes me usually open up a new saved game, and "fix" a lot of those things with editor (for instance players with -1 get PA tuned down to 150.. exceptions players who turned out to be great, like in the ODB Rooney who had -1) and it makes things more realistic cause I get rid of a lot of African players who often get insane amount of high PA. I reckon part of the problem is the ODB itself which had a lot of players with either -2 or high PA, probably due to bias of people who did the research, or simply they expected them to become superstars.

    I know some people like to play the game with a bit more "unrealistic" players, so I am not saying anything in particular should be changed or fixed, but I just felt like giving input in case someone did not know all of this.

    And I might even be mistaken about some stuff, but from what I have experienced, I would say most of this is fairly accurate.

    The reason why I wrote this, nothing in particular it just came to me as I was thinking about your database and new update, so I figured it might help, either to you or to anyone out there.

  35. #249
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luessenhoff View Post
    I'm pretty sure that's not the case here, while having literally changed many thousands of players' names, the issue with deleted names only occurs sporadically. I should mention that I am only talking about the 'staff' subdivision in the editor, I don't touch the 'first names' & 'second names' menus directly (you know, the list where you can view which names appear in which countries and how many people have that name over there). They

    Another rare issue I've come across several times is the fact that some players pre-set injuries inexplicably get deleted, without having ever touched the player again, so I definitely didn't do anything that would have undone the particular setting. Vitor Baia's pre-set injury sometimes gets 'washed away' in the database. It has happened 3 times. If you take into account that I easily overwrite 30 times a week after having done new edits, you can say it doesn't happen very often.

    The only explanation I can think of is, that sometimes saves are not 100% succesfully completed...

    Also worth mentioning is the fact that the editor will sometimes re-insert a player's ODB club preferences. Fabio Paim had the excellent suggestion to remove Real Madrid from Totti's favourite clubs ... which I did, only to find out that a couple dozens of database saves later, 'Real Madrid' had re-emerged in Totti's settings.

    Weird, very weird.
    On the names thing, I should indicate that the John deleted will only affect those with that nationality - so in the example I gave it would need to be John/Republic of Ireland to make John O'Shea just O'Shea - it wouldn't remove anyone called John from England's first name for instance

    Staff Configurations can be fussy. If you start with Poland selected I do believe it messes some of them up as their season starts June 6th but the default for staff configs is June 15th even it will accept June 1st. Another example is if you load a league that starts in 2002 (Brazil, Japan) any player that had a injury, ban etc. that was up before the start date of a new game, it will not load. Also, you need to go to Tools > Validate Database for it to 'commit' or save entries.

    The Totti one could be hardcoded, not sure. I know you cannot delete club rivals once you add them. You can change them all to the same club but never remove them. It's possibly the same. Another thing to note is if save an error in the data and then fix it, the indexes can get missed up so the player retains the index of the favour person but that could be a completely different person after the data re-indexes (this may only be only a side affect of cmdbsort)

  36. #250
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    https://www81.zippyshare.com/v/ViVyGtOF/file.html

    Announcement of the newest version:
    Always on the look-out for improvements, whether it be on a club-level, in the international teams, in the U21-squads, or tackling specific problems like why a certain player is not getting the appreciation from his club or country which he had irl, and so on … many areas, too much to mention, but here’s an idea:

    Continued squad corrections in the Dutch second league (“first division”). Boy, the Dutch second league was extremely inaccurate in the ODB, but now... I had already done a lot of work on it in during past updates, but now I think I can say that on average, all second league teams have a historically accurate squad up to 80-85% I’m estimating that in the ODB it was 10 to 15% to give you an idea ! Very screwed up to say the least.
    Even the Belgian second and lower leagues had much more correct squads than the second league in the Netherlands, which is surprising as the Dutch league had (and probably still has) a slightly higher reputation than the Belgian league.

    Cristiano Ronaldo will no longer be satisfied to remain at a moderately successful club throughout his career (I agree it did occur too often to be good). I think his loyalty was previously set to 12-13, which isn’t that high and seemed realistic enough to me since he hasn’t prove to be a real journeyman throughout his career. Now it’s been downgraded to 7 and you bet that in the long run, he won’t be happy until he’s at a top notch team. Once again that’s one of the things I discussed before: you can look at numbers in the editor and think they are too high or low, but only the game experience will tell whether they actually lead to credible results or not … I’ve also succeeded in reducing his number of appearances in Sporting’s first team during the first season, on average.

    Continued tackling the very extensive incomplete names issue in the lower divisions of Portugal. And some player editing + history too, of course.

    Last finalizing bits of work put into the Swiss league, which was as most of you will know, highly neglected in the ODB.
    One example: succeeded in finding the lacking main position of Basel’s Massimo Ceccaroni, which cannot be found by consulting the regular sources

    Some very noticeable improvements in a handful of national squads, amongst them Georgia and Armenia.

    A number of improvements and completions in many corners of Europe and the world.
    Last edited by Luessenhoff; 31-05-18 at 12:36 AM.

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