Page 9 of 11 FirstFirst ... 567891011 LastLast
Results 201 to 225 of 273

Thread: CM 01/02: 10 years of work and editing

  1. #201
    Join Date
    15-12-11
    Location
    Your Mother
    Posts
    27,237
    vCash
    1007500
    That's due to trying to install it over a saturn patch. You'll need a clean .68 installation no patches for it to work

    https://champman0102.co.uk/showthread.php?t=10247

  2. The Following User Says Thank You to Dermotron For This Useful Post:


  3. #202
    Join Date
    03-03-15
    Location
    Brazil, Joinville
    Posts
    892
    vCash
    500
    I didn't donwloaded yet but it looks great!
    If you need help with brazilian teams i can give you a few hints.
    Great job!

  4. #203
    Join Date
    05-02-17
    Posts
    5
    vCash
    500
    Just noticed something, have you considered adding Michael Dawson to Nottingham Forest? He was in the 2001/2002 and made his debut that year, albeit late in April, but it was the 01/02 season when he made his first team appearance.

    But I wanted to ask another question, I assume this database is not compatible with Tapani patch? I am asking mainly because I would like to try and play the game in higher resolution, like 1280x800.

  5. #204
    Join Date
    20-03-13
    Location
    Denmark
    Posts
    118
    vCash
    500
    Hi Luessenhoff

    In the original database a player like Kaka is a fairly good player, but in real life he turned into a beast and won the ballon d'or, have you modified him so he turns out a beast like in real life or just a little better then the original version?

    Also a player like Pirlo has a workrate of 12, I believe that this is a little too poor, since he worked is ass off in real life and probably worked more on the pitch then most other players?

    once again thank you for all your work, it's amazing !

  6. #205
    Join Date
    20-03-13
    Location
    Denmark
    Posts
    118
    vCash
    500
    Does anyone have any screenshots they want to share, of how their best modified players turns out? or performes?

  7. #206
    Join Date
    20-03-13
    Location
    Denmark
    Posts
    118
    vCash
    500
    Has anyone tried patching this? If yes which works? and is it even possible using some of the newest patches?

  8. #207
    Join Date
    18-02-14
    Posts
    91
    vCash
    500
    @ TelcontarTargaryen: good and valid point, I'll start grooming him for the next update.

    @ Marc1986: regarding Kaka: why don't you just play him and discover him in-game rather than asking that here? Trying provides so much more fun than debating here. Regarding Pirlo: I don't agree with your point that he used to work his ass off. He wasn't exactly a lazy ass either but his work rate seemed only average to me. I put a lot of work into Pirlo finetuning him. In my book, he excelled through his brilliant vision and passing, not his work rate. Let us say he was definitely not the work horse type, the others worked for him (work horses are players like Perrotta and Gattuso). He also lacked the speed to chase every player in possession of the ball. He was a very determined player though, but that's not a synonym for 'ferocious work horse'.

    Edit: I might add also that, for instance, increasing a player's work rate will not necessarily make him perform better for you. In fact, the contrary could very well be the case, because it will influence how the player acts and reacts. Many people only judge players based on attributes. Of course these do matter, but higher isn't always better. In my approach to achieve more realism, I've not only taken into account the visual attributes, but also the actual performances of the player. If you use Pirlo the right way, you will notice he will be the brilliant playmaker that he is / used to be. And on a sidenote: In most cases, he will only start to get called up in 2002 or 2003, just like it unfolded irl.

    In other words: try out the players, don't judge based on their attribute values only
    Last edited by Luessenhoff; 15-02-18 at 11:17 AM.

  9. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Luessenhoff For This Useful Post:


  10. #208
    Join Date
    29-08-14
    Posts
    19
    vCash
    500
    Hi Luessenhoff, do you plan any major updates in the near future? I am planning a new playthrough, but would wait if the new update will be out soon.

  11. #209
    Join Date
    18-02-14
    Posts
    91
    vCash
    500
    Hi Midnight Toker, not in the coming weeks.

    I think the next update will come in 6 - 8 weeks.

  12. The Following User Says Thank You to Luessenhoff For This Useful Post:


  13. #210
    Join Date
    18-02-15
    Posts
    5
    vCash
    500
    I really, really wanted to thank you for this database. I love playing the original CM because it plays back in a time where I actually still had interested in football and therefore seeing a more realistic 01/02 mod is a great thing.

    It is amazing to see the world develop both as in real life with the rise of Messi and Cristiano Ronaldo (even though the latter once moved to Hertha BSC Berlin in a game of mine, that was a hearty laugh) and in its own way.

    I hope it is okay if I offer a suggestion for a slight tweak: your effort to see Leverkusen match their 01/02 performance has the unfortunate side effect of turning Oliver Neuville into a beast for the German national team, way more than he ever was in real life. Obviously stuff like that is always a trade-off, so I just wanted to point that out as something that can be tweaked.

    However, I noted a much more significant problem that very likely stems from the original database: the majority of Turkish players (I do not know yet whether this applies to all of them or just those in the Turkish leagues) have their names turned around, i.e. their given name is their surname and vice-versa. Obviously that is a major hindrance in the search for perfection.

    Please understand that I do not expect you to fix that at all, I just wanted to let you know. If you'd like me to, I can support you and edit your next update to fix this.

  14. #211
    Join Date
    18-02-14
    Posts
    91
    vCash
    500
    Thanks for your reaction!

    As a matter of fact, I’m quite sure Neuville has remained untouched in terms of ability, he is one out of very few Leverkusen players whose abilities haven’t been changed by me, because I ‘ve always felt he was portrayed in a realistic way: meaning a versatile attacker that could be deployed in various positions, anything but a prolific goal-scorer but very much appreciated and used a lot by the German national side (even at 34 he still got called up). He collected a massive amount of caps when you take into account the stiff competition in the attacking department (and once again: he wasn’t exactly a goal machine) and the fact that he made his very first appearance for Germany already aged 25.
    Thus, I don’t agree with your opinion that he “turns into a beast”. In fact, in my version of the database he faces far more competition, both in quality and quantity, in the national side than in the ODB.

    I’m not familiar with Turkish naming customs, ODB data have been retained, as far as Turkish names are concerned.

    As for Ronaldo … I’ve seen him move to Real Madrid, and Barcelona, in some of my games (and I wasn’t in charge of Real or Barca then), so you cannot judge based on just one experience. At times it unfolds in a realistic way, and at other times I’m stunned to still see him playing for his “mother club” (or a club on the level of Hertha BSC,) at the age of 28, bangin’ in at least 40 goals season after season… It is true though, that he generally doesn’t seem as “hungry” as in real life, in spite of his ambition set to the maximum. But in 2001, nobody knew him as he was only a fringe player in the reserves squad. It should be this way. If the biggest teams sometimes neglect to chase him, so much the better for you then…

    In terms of in-game development you are referring to Messi and Ronaldo (little surprise there, many people only have eyes for the stars), but I would like to point out that they are just cogs in the database. Pivotal cogs, but then again only cogs. As I’ve written before, creating „beasts“ has never been my motivation for the countless hours of work. To me, It’s all about a complete, immersive world. A world in which every country that has/had an active national side, no matter how weak, is also active in the game, is much more important to me than the Ronaldos and Messis. I’m FAR more motivated to give full-sized squads, as detailed as possible with what little information there is to be found, to Barbados, Surinam, Turkmenistan, Macau, Panama and Andorra, just to name a few random, rather insignificant countries, than to re-create a couple of future star players.

    My next update will further enhance the immersive experience, but will also introduce one new future star player. (I won’t say any names, it’s up to the players to discover !)
    Last edited by Luessenhoff; 20-03-18 at 01:18 PM.

  15. #212
    Join Date
    18-02-15
    Posts
    5
    vCash
    500
    Quote Originally Posted by Luessenhoff View Post
    As a matter of fact, I’m quite sure Neuville has remained untouched in terms of ability, he is one out of very few Leverkusen players whose abilities haven’t been changed by me, because I ‘ve always felt he was portrayed in a realistic way: meaning a versatile attacker that could be deployed in various positions, anything but a prolific goal-scorer but very much appreciated and used a lot by the German national side (even at 34 he still got called up). He collected a massive amount of caps when you take into account the stiff competition in the attacking department (and once again: he wasn’t exactly a goal machine) and the fact that he made his very first appearance for Germany already aged 25.
    Thus, I don’t agree with your opinion that he “turns into a beast”. In fact, in my version of the database he faces far more competition, both in quality and quantity, in the national side than in the ODB.
    Oh, that is interesting that you didn't adjust him at all. Thank you for your response. I do admit I didn't look too deep into it and only went with my previous playthroughs (around five of them), so it could very well be that Germany got lucky with him on those occasions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Luessenhoff View Post
    I’m not familiar with Turkish naming customs, ODB data have been retained, as far as Turkish names are concerned.
    Then indeed ODB data is wrong. I'll just fix it for myself with the big clubs and then leave Turkey alone.

    A world in which every country that has/had an active national side, no matter how weak, is much more important to me than just the names of “Ronaldo” and “Messi”. I’m FAR more motivated to give full-sized squads, as detailed as possible with what little information there is to be found, to Barbados, Surinam, Turkmenistan, Macau, Panama and Andorra, just to name a few random, rather insignificant countries, than to re-create a couple of future star players.
    I really appreciate that part of your dataset, as I am someone who likes to fill their reserve and other minor roles (e.g. third goalkeeper) with people from more "exotic" football countries. Therefore I really love having those options.

  16. #213
    Join Date
    18-02-14
    Posts
    91
    vCash
    500
    Regarding the Turkish names: could you point out by means of an example what exactly is wrong? E.g. Hakan Sükür and Rüstü Recber?

    Good to hear that you appreciate the opportunities to have exotic players from very remote places. I often did my utmost to make them as complete and realistic as they can be (looking up as many sources as I can find on a specific player or country, trying to find out what their main playing position was and how important they were for their team), while respecting the 'modus operandi' of the developers, to avoid a divide / conflict between ODB players and players created by me. It should all fit together wonderfully. For instance: most players of very tiny football nations have random attributes. But the very limited number of players of tiny nations that the ODB had, revealed a certain pattern that I also use to maintain coherence. One such pattern, for the tiniest, most insignificant of nations is: average player : CA 33 below-average CA 25 above-average CA 40. Not overly difficult. But a very time-consuming aspect of my project is looking up their field position because most of the time, the only thing that can be found on them is "defender", "midfielder" etc ... yeah, but what type of defender? left? right ? centre back? sweeper? In the ODB, very often these are completely random (they could be a goalkeeper in one game and a striker in the next one ...). Date of birth? Very often totally absent, and that even applied to many reserve players in the main leagues. Caps/goals? Same issue. 90% of the world’s capped players had been attributed faulty numbers. More often than not I spend 15 to 30 minutes on just one player nobody in the world knows and nobody is interested in, reading match reports or very old newspapers to try and retrieve the information that the regular internet sources cannot offer. On one occasion, there was a Nigerien striker which was discussed in a newspaper article and it was mentioned that he was left-footed. I opened the database and saw he had been made right-footed in the ODB. Given the extremely low importance of football in some of those countries (you know, just surviving being the more prevalent struggle in some of those regions) , I'm not always successful and then I reluctantly have to accept that the best I can fill in is "defender" or "midfielder". But most of the time I put in a lot of effort before I give up.

    I do the same for the big nations too, but there it's easier of course as the data of the ODB were very often, though not always, right, and if not, the correct data can easily be found and applied. The trickier part though is I also endeavour to make the national squads selection match reality for the first couple of years in the game, but perfection there is not possible as the game mechanics come with their limitations in this respect. Example: in-game, it is nearly unthinkable that Argentina will call up a player (as a regular) that is playing in a second division somewhere, let's say Spain, even if his name were Maradona. The club to which a player is contracted and the league division he is in outweighs a player's reputation or ability a bit too much in the game in comparison to reality (though CM01/02 was already a considerable improvement in this regard over previous versions, where the club you were "playing" at meant pretty much everything, even if you were just a useless player rotting away in the reserves of a top notch club). Example: Goalkeeper German Burgos played as a regular for Argentina in 01/02 for some time though playing only in the Spanish second division, and in spite of all the good Argentinian goalkeepers that were regulars in better teams. In the game, the pond in which Argentina can fish is too great for some second division player to be preferred over the others, no matter how great he is. That’s one of the reasons why 100% perfection cannot be achieved. I think I’ve done a very solid job though, coming as close as I can get.

    Oh and I don’t only do this for national sides but I have also done this for shitloads of clubs. But the national sides are my number 1 concern. If I spot incompleteness, no matter how insignificant the actual player is, I'll try to rectify it. The incomplete names of players in the Portuguese competitions (especially starting from the 2nd and lower) is absolutely outrageous by the way.

    Anyway, always work in progress !

  17. The Following User Says Thank You to Luessenhoff For This Useful Post:


  18. #214
    Join Date
    18-02-15
    Posts
    5
    vCash
    500
    Quote Originally Posted by Luessenhoff View Post
    Regarding the Turkish names: could you point out by means of an example what exactly is wrong? E.g. Hakan Sükür and Rüstü Recber?
    Sure. Basically, most Turkish players simply have their given names and surnames in wrong order.

    Examples:

    Apparently, SI must have been aware of this issue to some degree because Turkish players with international relevance have a common name in proper order - an inverted version of the South Korean method, where players have their given names and surnames in Western order and have a common name depicting their name in Far East order. This makes no sense however, given as Turkey uses the Western name order, so it almost seems like they were aware of the issue, but weren't able/willing to actually fix it.

    Examples:
    Spoiler!


    Some Turkish players in international leagues have their name in order, but have a common name despite those not really being a thing in Turkish names:

    Examples:

    What makes this even more irritating is that it only applies for active players, apparently. Non-playing staff has their name in the right order:

    Examples:

    Quote Originally Posted by Luessenhoff View Post
    Good to hear that you appreciate the opportunities to have exotic players from very remote places. I often did my utmost to make them as complete and realistic as they can be (looking up as many sources as I can find on a specific player or country, trying to find out what their main playing position was and how important they were for their team), while respecting the 'modus operandi' of the developers, to avoid a divide / conflict between ODB players and players created by me. It should all fit together wonderfully. For instance: most players of very tiny football nations have random attributes. But the very limited number of players of tiny nations that the ODB had, revealed a certain pattern that I also use to maintain coherence. One such pattern, for the tiniest, most insignificant of nations is: average player : CA 33 below-average CA 25 above-average CA 40. Not overly difficult. But a very time-consuming aspect of my project is looking up their field position because most of the time, the only thing that can be found on them is "defender", "midfielder" etc ... yeah, but what type of defender? left? right ? centre back? sweeper? In the ODB, very often these are completely random (they could be a goalkeeper in one game and a striker in the next one ...). Date of birth? Very often totally absent, and that even applied to many reserve players in the main leagues. Caps/goals? Same issue. 90% of the world’s capped players had been attributed faulty numbers. More often than not I spend 15 to 30 minutes on just one player nobody in the world knows and nobody is interested in, reading match reports or very old newspapers to try and retrieve the information that the regular internet sources cannot offer. On one occasion, there was a Nigerien striker which was discussed in a newspaper article and it was mentioned that he was left-footed. I opened the database and saw he had been made right-footed in the ODB. Given the extremely low importance of football in some of those countries (you know, just surviving being the more prevalent struggle in some of those regions) , I'm not always successful and then I reluctantly have to accept that the best I can fill in is "defender" or "midfielder". But most of the time I put in a lot of effort before I give up.

    I do the same for the big nations too, but there it's easier of course as the data of the ODB were very often, though not always, right, and if not, the correct data can easily be found and applied. The trickier part though is I also endeavour to make the national squads selection match reality for the first couple of years in the game, but perfection there is not possible as the game mechanics come with their limitations in this respect. Example: in-game, it is nearly unthinkable that Argentina will call up a player (as a regular) that is playing in a second division somewhere, let's say Spain, even if his name were Maradona. The club to which a player is contracted and the league division he is in outweighs a player's reputation or ability a bit too much in the game in comparison to reality (though CM01/02 was already a considerable improvement in this regard over previous versions, where the club you were "playing" at meant pretty much everything, even if you were just a useless player rotting away in the reserves of a top notch club). Example: Goalkeeper German Burgos played as a regular for Argentina in 01/02 for some time though playing only in the Spanish second division, and in spite of all the good Argentinian goalkeepers that were regulars in better teams. In the game, the pond in which Argentina can fish is too great for some second division player to be preferred over the others, no matter how great he is. That’s one of the reasons why 100% perfection cannot be achieved. I think I’ve done a very solid job though, coming as close as I can get.
    That is quite frankly amazing, this dedication is something I really appreciate. Your work is amazing, as many others in this thread have told you.

  19. #215
    Join Date
    03-03-12
    Posts
    3,273
    vCash
    795
    Hi Luessenhoff

    Just a quick thank you for the work you've done here, and your willingness to share it. It motivated me to start a new game as i don't usually play CM anymore.

    It's nice to know you are seeking perfection with the original database. I have slapped your data on top of the 3.9.68 version with a Tapani patch and haven't encountered any issues yet. Just in case others were thinking of doing the same thing.

  20. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Coys For This Useful Post:


  21. #216
    Join Date
    18-02-14
    Posts
    91
    vCash
    500
    What you may expect from the next update:

    Completions, additions, rectifications and improvements in virtually every part of the world. More complete squads, more clubs, more players, more individual data. In short: world-wide activity level, immersiveness, dynamism, and consequently, the opportunities you have as a manager have been further enhanced. From the America’s to Africa, Europe and Asia to Oceania.

    Check-up of the Portuguese second division completed. Discovered an error of the ODB: a team that in fact didn’t play in that division in 01-02 while the actual team, I think it was Felgueiras, in turn, should have been in there. The division now displays the correct teams of the time. Check-up includes many staff improvements (missing / incomplete names, DOB’s, positions, career history, abilities, removal of players that didn’t play there anymore, and the like …).

    Once again an increase of more ‘densely populated’ squads in a number of European clubs from the non-playable leagues. Much nicer to play against a higher number of real, existing players when facing these sides in the European qualification rounds. But equally importantly: It only adds to the dynamism and realism: those clubs become slightly more viable because of the players they have. They can play them against other European teams and be slightly more competitive, or they lose them to other teams but earn some money in exchange and will be able to re-invest that money by buying up the better players in their domestic league, for example.

    Overall increase in the availability of U21 call-ups of the middle and lower ranking nations at the start of the game.

    And of course some tweaking here and there if a player was constantly under/overperforming or under/overestimated.

    Update will be ready in two weeks.

  22. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Luessenhoff For This Useful Post:


  23. #217
    Join Date
    25-10-17
    Posts
    6
    vCash
    500
    You are a God, Luessenhoff.
    Can't wait for the update to come out!

  24. #218
    Join Date
    29-03-18
    Posts
    2
    vCash
    500
    Hello Luessenhoff,

    Well done with your data, impressive job !
    Too bad I haven't found a way to play it in French yet.

    If I may, I've found some players already in the db that you might improve :

    Cristian Zaccardo (should have a better potential ability, he never signed to a big club but he get 17 caps with Italy and was in 2006 team)
    Pablo Zabaleta (very good career, 58 caps with Argentina)
    Marcos Senna (should be able to play with Spain National Team)
    Rickie Lambert (strange career but a good player)
    James McFadden (not exactly a great player but 48 caps with Scotland)
    Hugo Campagnaro (good career in Italy, 17 caps with Argentina)
    Eduardo da Silva (should be able to play with Croatia national team)
    Francileudo Santos (should be able to play with Tunisia national team)
    Johnny Herrera and Esteban Paredes (should be able to get a decent amount of caps with Chile)
    Dirk Kuyt (misspell Kuijt, great player 104 caps with Holland !)
    Stephan Lichtsteiner (very good player 93 caps with Switzerland)
    Mariano Andujar (goalkeeper with 11 caps for Argentina)
    Lukas Podolski (could have a better potential ability ? 130 caps 49 goals with Germany)

    The db is so huge that it seems very hard to get to the perfect one, but please continue your great work !
    Best regards

    ps : Adebayor potential ability 180 ?! No way !

  25. #219
    Join Date
    18-02-14
    Posts
    91
    vCash
    500
    Hi Gautama,

    I'll have a look at some of those players, but I'm pretty sure I won't be changing most of them.
    Some of your points are not illogical at first sight, however, there are a lot of necessary buts ... it isn't always that simple:

    1. It can be very misleading to judge based on the potential ability value alone. Some players that have a potential ability of of 140 or 150 can easily outperform a player with a p.a. of 180 or 190. Do not look up players in the editor to judge them, but look at how they perform. More p.a. is not always better, sometimes less is more, provided it has been done in the right proportions . I can assure you that merely raising p.a. and / or attributes does not necessarily make a player better (= perform better). If only it were that simple... many players caused me headaches for weeks until I finally got them on point.

    2. I'll welcome suggestions, but please do not be overly quick in judging players based on one, or even two games you played either. Careers unfold differently each time. This dynamism is what makes the game so re-playable. Not everything is bound to happen again and again and again. One transfer or even an injury or a new manager, a relegation, you name it, can change the course of a player's career. And also, since you brought up quite some players that saw their (international) career bloom relatively late (call-ups in 2006 to even 2012): Be aware that the more you jump forward in time, the less "programmable" or "predictable" the environment becomes. In 2006, some of the regens start coming into play, and definitely in 2012 ! Besides that, young players often have a long road of progression ahead of them. That progression can be hampered by certain circumstances ...

    3. Second nationalities are not always a given thing by birth. In many cases I did a lot of research on when exactly a player obtained his second passport. If you hit google and check Eduardo and see "Croatian-Brazilian", only to conclude that I'll probably have overlooked this ... that's not how it works. Moreover, and unfortunately, the game is not in full conformity with reality. Just a random example: an Argentinian player who plays in another South American country (e.g. Ecuador) can never BECOME Ecuadorian in-game, although that did happen in real life. In such cases I'm forced to make a painful decision: either giving him the second nationality from the start, knowing it was not the case at all around that time, and with the risk of the player getting called up for his "new" country straight away, or not giving it, knowing he will be Argentinian for the rest of the game. I prefer to stick to how it was in 2001. Only in a very limited number of cases will I make an exception to this rule. 3 such players are Aldo Duscher, Christoph Dabrowski and Sean Dundee. Duscher has an Austrian passport based on descent, but does not speak any German and playing for Austria was never considered. In the ODB he had been given one cap for Argentina, which was untrue. At first I had set his caps to '0', only to find out that he would be a certainty for Austria for all of his career. Removing his second passport would be untrue and would bereave Deportivo of a benefit (EU player), so I reverted to the original solution of the ODB: one cap for Argentina. Dabrowski and Dundee share a similar story: Dabrowski and Dundee both played for Germany's B-side and never for their "countries of origin" Poland and South Africa. If however being stripped of their false full cap, they will have the status of indisputables in their "home" country. So I opted for giving them a cap, which is not entirely untrue as they did feature in the national team, but only the B-side, as said. This problem is particularly relevant to the many Germans / Poles that were born in Silesia, nowadays Poland but German for many centuries, and migrated to contemporary Germany proper in the 1970s and 1980s as they had the right to be granted citizenship based on descent. I once had given all these players a Polish passport after a lenghty research, only to find out that the Polish national team turned into a sort of semi-Germany with the squad consisting of "German" players up to 50% in the game! In short: that's why many of these players only have a German passport (Podolski, Kampa, Sobotzik, Max and many more) while only players that are already 'safe' (= capped by Germany) have a Polish passport (like Miroslav Klose). Not many stones have been left unturned, but choices had to be made for the sake of the game !

    Zaccardo --> remember testing him a long time ago and being quite satisfied.
    Zabaleta --> as a matter of fact, I think I upgraded this player over the past weeks.
    Marcos Senna --> he did not have Spanish nationality in 2001 ... not going to give it to him for free, he'll have to earn it just like in real life
    Lambert --> didn't know him. I'll definitely look at him. I can see he was contracted to a lower division team, and one of the reasons he has or may have remained under the radar is that I have not yet looked at all teams in England of D2 and lower.
    McFadden --> don't know by heart, I'll definitely check.
    Campagnaro --> he got called up in ... 2012 at the age of 32. Don't know by heart what his abilities are in the db, but suffice it to say that he shouldn't be made too good right from the start.
    Eduardo Da Silva --> he did not have Croatian citizenship in 2001. But more than just once I've seen him turn into a Croatian international, if only he stays at Dinamo Zagreb long enough.
    Herrera & Paredes --> Don't know by heart but I'll check.
    Kuijt is not a misspell, but actually his official Dutch name. It's just that the in the English-speaking world his name is often anglicized to Kuyt.
    Lichtsteiner is a player with great potential but still an obscure youth player around that time, he can become a reliable right back if given proper training and playing time. He should by no means be a player of Switzerland in 2002 !!
    Andujar --> I'll check, but a player who got his first call-up in 2009 ...
    Podolski --> p.a. doesn't tell the whole story.
    Adebayor --> p.a. doesn't tell the whole story.
    Last edited by Luessenhoff; 30-03-18 at 08:46 AM.

  26. The Following User Says Thank You to Luessenhoff For This Useful Post:


  27. #220
    Join Date
    29-03-18
    Posts
    2
    vCash
    500
    Hello Lussenhoff,

    Thanks a lot for all your explanations !
    You sure have a great understanding of the game, that's nice to learn some more about it after all this time. Also it's really great to read someone as passionate as you !

    I agree that what makes this game so special it that the story is different every time, depending on teams and players destinies. Lot of players get the chance to become good or even great, that would be a bit boring to know exactly what's gona happen in the future. Thow like everybody, I've experienced weird stories while playing the odb, like Dugarry becoming top player of the world !!

    I think you make a very good point with multiple nationalities players.
    In real life after all, they get to decide which national team they want to join.
    Yet it's complicated with under21 players (in France for example, some players play the under21 team before choosing another nation because they are not good enough for France A). That makes it a bit tricky to decide how to edit the game, because if a player get selected for under21 he won't be able to play for another country. If it's great to have different story lines for players, it's annoying when Messi chooses Spain over Argentina (but you seem to have found a better way to avoid this than adding 1 cap to the player, it's non sens to give a player a cap at 13/14 years old, caps must be earned in the game !)

    About P.A. I thought it had more impact but I guess it's not the key at all.
    In real life, we often make the mistake to judge players by their P.A.
    Hatem Ben Arfa always had a very good potential but he never became a great player because of bad choices in his career.

    What players gave you the hardest time to have them perform as you wanted ?

  28. #221
    Join Date
    18-02-14
    Posts
    91
    vCash
    500
    Hi Gautama,

    What players gave you the hardest time to have them perform as you wanted ?
    A lot of players took me a long time to fine-tune in terms of performances and being picked as a first choice for their national teams if that applied,
    impossible to mention them all as there are too many but some that spring to mind are:

    Marcos (Mallorca) --> wrongly portrayed as a creative and goal-scoring AM in the ODB. Converting him to a less fashionable but highly reliable and consistent DM took me a while.
    Xavi --> would always underperform in the ODB despite good attributes.
    Pirlo --> made the transition from AM to CM / DM during his time at Milan. A lot of fine-tuning was needed to turn him into a world class mr. creativity.
    C. Ronaldo --> no comments. Creating a beast isn't as easy as it may seem despite all the 20s !
    Miquel Soler --> was generally deemed unimportant by Mallorca in the ODB whereas in reality he maintained his first team place in 01/02 despite his age. Proved very difficult to still make him attractive enough as he's already 35 and there's enough competition at left back.
    Hubner --> had good stats in the ODB, wasn't bad at all but was anything but the dangerous goal machine, a treat especially impressive when you take into consideration the fact that he challenged the Serie A's superstars for tor the top scorer's crown, while playing only at Piacenza, and having to play against all those world class defenders. After a lot of trial and error I managed to make him the very dangerous striker that he was, without making him too strong and renowned (he shouldn't drive Del Piero or Montella out of the national team)
    Zagorakis --> undisputed starter for Greece, but ignored (and underrated) in the ODB.
    Karagounis --> idem dito, good player, good attributes, but hardly ever considered by Greece.
    Timmy Simons --> mainstay for Belgium for more than a decade but chanceless in the ODB.
    Ballack --> highly underrated in the ODB.
    Goots --> old low-profile killer striker at Antwerp.

    On your suggestions:

    Zaccardo --> had a look at him during a test game that went well into the 2010s, and he had 6 caps. So his talent is clearly recognized despite (VERY) heavy competition in Italy. Don't agree with you.
    Zabaleta --> you are right, it could be that the previous version (which folks are playing now) did not have the updated Zabaleta yet. But I actually noticed a while ago.
    Marcos Senna --> Only secured a Spanish pass during his Villareal adventure, not in 2001. He should be Brazilian only.
    Lambert --> valid point. He has been updated.
    McFadden --> he had already been improved in comparison to the ODB, but not enough considering he was already called up in 2002. Valid point by you, thanks.
    Campagnaro --> not detected by me until now, valid point !
    Eduardo --> only secured a Croatian passport years later, giving him citizenship in 2001 would not match reality.
    Herrera --> in my test game he had more than 80 (!) caps by 2016, so I don't agree with you on this one.
    Paredes --> doubt case. Good player but should not be detected too soon, he only got called up for the first time for Chile in 2006.
    Kuijt --> not a misspell. I try to be consistent in using names in the native languages, within the realms of possiblity. (Not every character is possible in the game, for instance some Slavic characters from the Czech Republic and Slovakia. Of course Cyrillac characters would confuse the hell out of most players, including me, so in that case the transcription that comes most closely to the native version has been chosen. That means no Russian-English transcription but Belarussian transcription for Belarussian players)
    Lichtsteiner --> can become great with a portion of luck. Don't want to make him too good right from the start, as the competition in Switzerland is not that tough and I don't want him to feature in the Swiss team too soon.
    Andujar --> nothing wrong with him here.
    Santos (Sochaux) --> I knowingly didn't give him Tunisian nationality as he only accepted to play in 2003. On the other hand, he already had his adventure in Tunisia behind him so he must have been elligible already. So I've given a second passport, tested, and I've noticed he won't easily get called up by his second country.
    Podolski --> fits the bill as a talented youngster, though his attributes are somewhat one-dimensional as one of my very old creations, could use a revision.
    Adebayor --> good the way he is in my book. Played at Arsenal, Man City, Real Madrid. Not always consistently in his performances but his club history doesn't exactly contradict a high PA.

    All in all, some of your suggestions have enabled me to improve the database. Thanks !

    On PA:

    Yes, of course it is important. On average, a higher PA will make a player better both optically and performance-wise. However,
    it is not "exact science", as evidenced, for example, by the fact that quite a lot of players with high PA's (between 160 and 200) will hardly ever
    be picked up by the biggest football clubs, regardless of the players' reputations, high or low, whereas said top clubs will sometimes buy players with only a PA of 130 or 140.
    Earlier in this thread I wrote about balance (I'm not referring to the player's attribute). By balance I meant that there must be consistency between a player's
    attributes, CA, PA, reputation, nationality, club he's contracted to. If there's a great imbalance somewhere the game's AI will detect it and decide for itself
    a certain player is not worth it. That's one of the reasons why the fine-tuning process isn't always easy. Just increasing someone's attributes and CA/PA, hoping it will make him
    better doesn't always work out. In many cases he will appear to be better (higher attributes), but his performances may well take a turn for the worse.

    The exact same goes for reputation too. Increasing a player's home reputation, even to 200, will very often not make him get called up to the national squad.
    You have to seek that balance instead, between credible attributes and a "credible" reputation. Reputation even exerts direct influence on a player's performances,
    without even touching his attributes or CA/PA. Hence, fine-tuning players to have them perform in a certain way is a task not be underestimated, at times very frustrating.

    On a side-note, to anyone reading this: is there anyone who could shed some light on the following issue?

    I've always been interested in completing the errors, gaps and oddities in country languages. If there's anyone who knows any tool or way to insert new languages, and to make a certain language official, perhaps only on a club-based level, please stand up and shout.

    What I mean is, for example:


    Any player transferring to the Swiss league will always learn German in the game. Switzerland indeed is a predominantly German-speaking country, but French and Italian are there too. (e.g. Servette Genève and Bellinzona)
    Any player transferring to the Belgian league will always learn French. That's not realistic at all either. In fact, most clubs, especially in the first division, use Dutch as their main language. (At the very least 12 out of 18 first division clubs in 2001, excluding Anderlecht, where both Dutch and French are used)

    Then, there's a lot of nations that do not have their real language attributed to them because it's just not in the database. Oddly enough, a "niche" langauge like "Amharic" of Ethiopia is there, but many others aren't ...
    Last edited by Luessenhoff; 03-04-18 at 08:50 AM.

  29. The Following User Says Thank You to Luessenhoff For This Useful Post:


  30. #222
    Join Date
    18-02-14
    Posts
    91
    vCash
    500
    @ Klonomania,

    I think the fact that some Turkish players have been given a common name stems from the fact that some indeed only had their first name indicated on their shirts (Emre (Belözoglu) & Nihat being notable examples).
    I've taken a look at the Turkish names and you're totally wright. They are all in the wrong order, and this has been bypassed (by giving a common name) for some of the famous players exactly as you mentioned.
    I've already corrected a lot of names in the squads of the "Big 3" in Turkey.

  31. #223
    Join Date
    25-10-17
    Posts
    6
    vCash
    500
    Just a general question for everyone playing with the Luessenhoff-data: I know the data has been built for the original, UNPATCHED, 3.9.60 version of the game, but it seems, for me any way, that the only way to get around the dreaded "mouse-idle sensitivity"-problem (https://champman0102.co.uk/showthrea...394#post382394), is to patch the game to 3.9.68 and then use the Tapani-patch to solve the mouse sensitivity issue.
    (Or use a special, modified .exe that can be downloaded here, again, only for 3.9.68 -->https://champman0102.co.uk/downloads.php?do=file&id=150)

    Now, none of all this poses any serious problems, except that: when I try to start a new Luessenhoff-game, and I select all the Leagues (including the lower divisions), I get an cp.-error message that says something about the Swedish Second Division, before the game crashes. This does not happen when on 3.9.60, so there must be a specific change concerning the Swedish Second Division somewhere in between the two patches.

    When I load all the Leagues, with the exception of the Swedish Second Division, the game seems to run smoothly (will do some testing on that later on, holidaying a couple of times through a hundred seasons)

    So my question: does anyone else experience this? Is there a way to work around this? Or to keep the game at 3.9.60 with functional mouse-clicking?

    Keep up the amazing work, Luessenhoff, I am already looking forward to your next update!

  32. The Following User Says Thank You to Rubinja For This Useful Post:


  33. #224
    Join Date
    18-02-15
    Posts
    5
    vCash
    500
    I got a handful more things for your attention. If I am getting too annoying, let me know.

    The Italian lower leagues all do not have a proper history when it comes to winners - this is most grating in Serie B, which has a history dating back to the 1930s.
    Sebastian Deisler's transfer to FC Bayern is already established in the database, so his personality stats should be adjusted - the public reaction to that was the beginning of his inability to handle the media pressure that would end up leading to the depression that would end up pretty much destroying his career.
    In the most nitpicky of details, Emeka Jude Ugali (playing for Monza) needs to have his nationality changed from Italian to Nigerian/Italian. As his caps for Nigeria came in 2002, his reputation could do with a small boost as well. I am fully aware that I am the only one who cares, but Ugali was great for me in my last playthrough so I want to "honour" him with the right information.

  34. #225
    Join Date
    18-02-14
    Posts
    91
    vCash
    500
    No problem. Yup, Monza is pretty much unedited, as for Italy only A + B have been fully checked, the lower divisions haven't had any major checks, just some bits and pieces.
    By fully checked I mean the players and their history, not so much the history of the division itself. Never paid that much attention to it. The Serie B isn't the only division with limited history or gaps.

    Deisler --> checked his character stats a long time ago but it probably just didn't make it in time for the update most folks are playing now, anyway his pressure ability is 2 here.
    Thanks for bringing up Ugali ! Valid point and very important even if it's only a fringe player.

    Edit: announcement of the new update


    *To those who enjoy an active in-game world as much as me: before you click on continue after having started a new game, check every country and tiny island you can think of. The number of countries that hardly have any players has become very low. On average, medium-skilled football nations benefit from an improved (= more densely populated) U21 squad too. International activity has once again been further improved.

    *Realism in terms of preferred players by their respective national teams further improved where I deemed it necessary. Logically, this applies mostly to the well-established nations. Tiny nations that only have a couple handful of players to rely upon can of course not be tweaked to the same extent. The most important thing there is that they actually have players to rely upon. Some players have been improved and others have been downgraded to that end, but also factual research lies at the basis of some changes. One such example: in the past I had already been wondering why Guerino Gottardi (Lazio) was never used by Switzerland. In-game, he is an inevitability in the national team in large part because of the club he’s playing at. Now I finally found out: it turns out he was born in Switzerland, speaks German and actually applied to be able to become a Swiss international, but the Swiss administration turned down his request because he didn’t live in Switzerland at the time. I’ve set him to international retirement in order to make it match reality. No Gottardi in the Swiss team.

    *My last tests have revealed that regen quality improvement has become – more than ever – very much noticeable after more than a decade of filling in attributes, abilities and complete names, both technically and cosmetically. Wait a minute … ‘cosmetically’? Yes … the high number of players in the Portuguese (lower) leagues with only a second name (‘Joao,’ ‘Marcio,’ …) would often lead to the arrival of regens in Portuguese-speaking countries with … no name at all. I’ve done so much work in Portugal that division 2 has now also become entirely free of such incomplete names. Even a very considerable number of lower division players have been given their full name, for what it’s worth, though a lot of gaps remain in that respect. I’ve also harmonized the inconsistencies between Portuguese players’ names themselves completely in D1 and 2. As said in one of my previous posts I had also discovered an error of the ODB: Felgueiras belongs in the second division, not the third.

    *The teams you’ll meet in the Champions League or Uefa Cup from the non-playable leagues (mostly Eastern European) will generally also have improved squads with more players. It isn’t comparable to the completeness of the playable teams of course, but remember that in the ODB many of those teams only had one or two real players in their squads, or more often than not even none at all ! By now these kinds of teams have like 7 players at their disposal, or 8, or 13 or 15, some even more than 20. These teams were generally bound to be static / passive / desolate / entirely useless forever in the ODB, but this is no longer true. By now (not just because of this update, work already started in the past) they have (more) sellable players, are thus healthier as a club and will have an increased capability to attract players themselves. I’ve seen several of those squads growing every season in my latest tests. More active competitors = more dynamism, more possible surprises and more fun !

    *Shitloads and shitloads of content improvement in every regard, ranging from club colours, addition of new clubs and players in remote regions, player abilities and history, division history, dates of birth, squad completion, more realistic squad selections in clubs …. , …. Portugal, Spain, Belgium, Germany, England, Croatia, Poland, Scotland, Norway, Turkey, Italy, Netherlands and more … nearly all competitions have seen bits of improvement. Example: there was this club in the Scottish Premier Division (don’t remember exactly, think it was St Johnstone) of which all players only had history until 1999. I’ve done the best I could to make it more complete.

    *And … a number of suggestions by the forum members have been taken into account. Thanks for your assistance, guys.

    I will upload the database this weekend.
    Last edited by Luessenhoff; 13-04-18 at 10:18 AM.

  35. The Following User Says Thank You to Luessenhoff For This Useful Post:


Page 9 of 11 FirstFirst ... 567891011 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •